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Northwest 707 Configuration  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 663 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3830 times:

Were Northwests 707-320Cs in a F/Y config with normal 6 abreast in Y, or did they have the all Y 5 abreast like the 720Bs did at one point?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
Were Northwests 707-320Cs in a F/Y config with normal 6 abreast in Y, or did they have the all Y 5 abreast like the 720Bs did at one point?

Interesting, I'm not a aware that the 720B ever had 5 abreast. Is that right? Do you have a photo? The 880/990 was 5 abreast, but not the 707 usually. As you know, the 707/720 fuselage width was exactly the same as the newest 737s and the 757.


User currently offlinePacificF27 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3509 times:
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Continental had 5 abreast Boeings at one time. Not aware that Northwest did.


EVA is tops across the Pacific!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3431 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
Were Northwests 707-320Cs in a F/Y config with normal 6 abreast in Y, or did they have the all Y 5 abreast like the 720Bs did at one point?

Interesting, I'm not a aware that the 720B ever had 5 abreast. Is that right? Do you have a photo? The 880/990 was 5 abreast, but not the 707 usually. As you know, the 707/720 fuselage width was exactly the same as the newest 737s and the 757.

Yes, NW 720Bs were converted to all-economy with 5-abreast seating sometime around 1967 or so. That was during the period when UA also had some DC-8s with 5-abreast seating, as well as CO and possibly one or two others. It became a competitive issue. I flew on a NW 720B SEA-ORD in the summer of 1967 and I clearly remember the spacious 5-abreast configuration (it was a redeye flight...I was using a 50% discounted youth standby fare, common then).

NW 707s remained 6 abreast in Y. They were used on international routes and anything less than 6-abreast on 707s used on international routes then would have violated IATA conditions of service resolutions which many governments insisted be applied. The 720Bs could get away 5-abreast as they were only used on domestic routes.

I don't think the 5-abreast configuration on the 720Bs lasted very long, maybe a couple of years or so? I may be wrong but I have a vague recollection that UA also switched to 5-abreast on their 720s during a similar period.

Photo of a UA DC-8-51 with 5-abreast seating in 1971.


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Photo © Robert L. Bradley



[Edited 2011-12-15 14:25:08]

User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

What domestic routes saw NW 707s?

User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2685 times:
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Quoting Jackbr (Reply 4):
What domestic routes saw NW 707s?

According to the December 13, 1973 timetable, B707 flights are as follows:

Flight 12: ANC-SEA-PDX
Flight 18: GEG-ORD-CLE-PHL
Flight 24: PDX-SEA-GEG-MSP-ORD-DTW-JFK
Flight 59 :PHL-CLE-ORD-GEG-SEA
Flight 71: EWR-DTW-ORD-BIL-GTF-GEG-SEA
Flight 72: SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-ORD-DTW-EWR
Flight 78: PDX-SEA-IAD
Flight 91: IAD-SEA-ORD
Flight 203: JFK-DTW-MSP
Flight 505: ORD-MSP
Flight 524: MSP-DTW-PHL
Flight 541: PHL-DTW-MKE-ORD-MSP
Flight 610: SEA-GEG
Flight 708: MSP-ATL-TPA
Flight 712: MSP-MIA-FLL
Flight 716: MSP-ORD-FLL
Flight 725: FLL-ORD
Flight 727: TPA-ATL-MSP
Flight 731: FLL-MIA-MKE-MSP
Flight 735: MIA-TPA-ORD-PDX-SEA-ANC

February 23, 1975:

Flight 78: PDX-SEA-IAD
Flight 79: IAD-SEA-PDX
Flight 708: MSP-ATL-TPA
Flight 712: MSP-MIA-FLL (Ex Tu We Sa)
Flight 727: TPA-ATL-MSP
Flight 731: FLL-MIA-MSP (Ex Tu We Sa)

Hope this helps  

Russell



Things aren't always as they seem
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2623 times:

This one cracks me up on a 707-320B:  
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 5):
Flight 72: SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-ORD-DTW-EWR


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 5):

Thank you for those routes! I've seen photos of the 707s in SFO - were these domestic flights to SEA/MSP, or international services?


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Does anyone know when NW discontinued 707 operations?

User currently offlinem404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2220 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2499 times:
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Jackbr

I've flown NW 707 SFO-HNL, SEA-ANC (I think).



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2459 times:
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Quoting Jackbr (Reply 7):
I've seen photos of the 707s in SFO - were these domestic flights to SEA/MSP, or international services?

Not sure; the only other timetable I have is from April 1, 1971 and according to it, the only routes to/from SFO were MSP and HNL and those were on 727S a/c (MSP) and 747 a/c (HNL). According to the timetables listed (April 1, 1971, December 13, 1973, and February 23, 1975) there were no NW 707's (720B/ 707-320) at SFO. There were no 707C freighters there, either.

Here are 707C flights for those interested:

April 1,1971:

Flight 247: JFK-MSP
Flight 248: MSP-JFK *This flight is with 747 a/c but should be listed here; it is the reverse of flight 247
Flight 901: JFK-ORD-SEA-ANC-Tokyo-SEL
Flight 902: SEL-Tokyo-SEA-ORD-JFK
Flight 903: JFK-ORD-MKE-MSP
Flight 908: MSP-MKE-JFK

Here are long distance pax flights from April 1, 1971 worth mentioning;

Flight 16: ITO-HNL-ORD (Su.)
Flight 17: ORD-HNL (Su.)
Flight 19: MSP-HNL "Royal Aloha Jet" (Sa.)
Flight 20: HNL-MSP "Royal Aloha Jet" (Sa.)
Flight 25: ORD-ITO-HNL "Royal Aloha Jet" (Sa.)
Flight 26: HNL-ITO-MSP (Sa.)

December 13, 1973:

Flight 901: JFK-ORD-SEA-ANC-Tokyo-SEL-OSA (ANC on Mo., Th., and Sa./ no ANC stop on Th., Sa., and Su.)
-It appears as though there were two flights on Thursdays. Also, no ORD on Mo.)
Flight 902:SEL-OSA-Tokyo(Mo., We., Th., and Sa.)/SEL-Tokyo (Tu. and Fr.); Tokyo-SEA-ORD-JFK
Flight 912: MSP-MKE-JFK
Flight 923: JFK-MSP
Flight 908: MSP-JFK
Flight 927: JFK-MKE-MSP

February 23, 1975:

Flight 901:JFK-ORD-SEA-Tokyo-SEL-OSA
Flight 902: SEL-Tokyo-SEA-ORD-JFK
Flight 908: MSP-JFK
Flight 912: MSP-MKE-JFK
Flight 923: JFK-MSP
Flight 927 JFK-MKE-MSP
Flight 930: ANC-SEA
Flight 931: SEA-ANC

Good Day  

Russell



Things aren't always as they seem
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Yes, NW 720Bs were converted to all-economy with 5-abreast seating sometime around 1967 or so.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
That was during the period when UA also had some DC-8s with 5-abreast seating,

Airliners magazine states that "With stiff competition from PSA and United, a further step was taken in
April 1965 by converting some of the 720Bs to 146 seat, all economy class aircraft dubbed the 'FanJet Commuter' ". Maybe this was the five across arrangement.

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 8):
Does anyone know when NW discontinued 707 operations?

Not sure about their 707s, but their last revenue 720 flight was January 6, 1980, with 720-047B, N3162.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 4):
What domestic routes saw NW 707s?

JFK-SEA was one. When NW finally got rights to HKG in 1967 they were operating a 707 JFK-SEA-HND-HKG.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
This one cracks me up on a 707-320B:
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 5):
Flight 72: SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-ORD-DTW-EWR

In later years NW flew DC-10s to points like GEG, GTF, BIL.


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Not sure about their 707s, but their last revenue 720 flight was January 6, 1980, with 720-047B, N3162.

I believe this this data reflects the final 720 operation for Western Airlines. I suspect that NW ceased 707 operations in 1978, but am not certain. The NW 720s were retired closer to 1974, again not certain.
Cheers.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5398 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
I don't think the 5-abreast configuration on the 720Bs lasted very long, maybe a couple of years or so? I may be wrong but I have a vague recollection that UA also switched to 5-abreast on their 720s during a similar period.

This dates me but I vividly remember flying on three Eastern Boeing 720 flights in 1962, 1963 and 1966 they were BWI then BAL to MIA in '62 and '63 and then MIA-BWI in '66. They were all 3 and 3 in coach.

I also remember flying an EA DC-8 with Palomar seats on the return leg in '63. I don't remember if that 8 was 5 or 6 abreast. I do remember the funky retro interior with curtains and the corner seat back blue reading lights.
In Aug. of '66 I remember flying from ATL-MIA on a DL DC-8 also with the curtains, Palomar seats and blue seatback readiong lights. And I explicitly remember coach being 5 across seating. Why? I had the starboard window seat, my little sister got the middle mom got the asile and dad had the asile on the Captain's side and that was 2 seats!
Back then I thought the DC-8 was slumming it because it's cabin reminded me more of the propliner cabins especially the Electras. Remember, I was a kid what did I know? I thought the Boeing and new DC-9 cabins were hip and modern in comparison. If only I could have gotten another swipe at riding in a classic DC-8 cabin.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Heggblom
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ellis M. Chernoff

I know, this DL DC-8 is 6 across but the one I flew in '66 was 5 across in coach!



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4252 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
This one cracks me up on a 707-320B:
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 5):
Flight 72: SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-ORD-DTW-EWR

Flight 71/72 actually upgraded to DC-10 service by the mid/late 1970s.


User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1034 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 11):
Airliners magazine states that "With stiff competition from PSA and United, a further step was taken in
April 1965 by converting some of the 720Bs to 146 seat, all economy class aircraft dubbed the 'FanJet Commuter' ". Maybe this was the five across arrangement.

I think this is a reference to Western Airlines, not NWA since PSA didn't fly out of the state of California in 1965. United, PSA and Western were fierce competitors on the SFO-LAX corridor. I've seen the "Fanjet Commuter" slogan on a Western ticket jacket somewhere.


User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1034 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 11):
Not sure about their 707s, but their last revenue 720 flight was January 6, 1980, with 720-047B, N3162.

N3162 was a Western 720B, not Northwest.


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 16):
I think this is a reference to Western Airlines,
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 16):
N3162 was a Western 720B, not Northwest

You are both correct. I was thinking Western, not Northwest. I got my "directions" confused.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):

The 5 seat and 6 seat across configureation,when it is 5 across wouldn't the seats be a little wider than the seats in the 6 across configureation. The only 5 seat across jets I have been on in coach were Convair 880s and Douglas DC-9s


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