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DL LGA Slot Swap Flights Loaded In Schedule  
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18622 times:

The update of DL's online timetable show some updates to DL's LGA with the slot swap transaction.

I don't have time to pour through it all, but some of the finds, effective 3/25/12

LGA-DFW 6x E70 (S5)
LGA-MIA 4x M88
LGA-BTV 3x (2x OH CR7, 1x ERJ)

244 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18636 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
The update of DL's online timetable show some updates to DL's LGA with the slot swap transaction.

I don't have time to pour through it all, but some of the finds, effective 3/25/12

LGA-DFW 6x E70 (S5)
LGA-MIA 4x M88
LGA-BTV 3x (2x OH CR7, 1x ERJ)

No major surprises from those three. MIA was an obvious no-brainer, as was DFW. I'm surprised they went with that schedule - I guess they are banking on frequency being more important for capturing AA market share than aircraft (they're probably right). BTV seemed like a logical link for LGA, too.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18598 times:

Interesting that a couple of AA bread and butter routes are the first ones. With all the new service at DFW, it seems airlines aren't as scared to take on AA as they once were.

MIA is interesting too. DL has quietly built up a nice little presence at MIA.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18621 times:

LGA-ROC 4x CR7 (OH)
LGA-BUF 6x CR9 (OH)
LGA-SYR 5x (4x ERJ, 1x CR7)
LGA-RIC 5x (4x ERJ, 1x CRJ)


User currently onlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18474 times:

It appears DL dropped STL-DCA as a result  

STL-LGA went down to 1 Daily unless I cannot find the others.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18442 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
LGA-DFW 6x E70 (S5)
LGA-MIA 4x M88
Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
MIA was an obvious no-brainer, as was DFW.
Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Interesting that a couple of AA bread and butter routes are the first ones.

How was DFW a no-brainer? ...or MIA? They are just doing to pressure AA.

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
DL has quietly built up a nice little presence at MIA.

They have just as quietly disassembled it. JAX is gone and TPA/MCO are now only 1 RT.


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18440 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
LGA-ROC 4x CR7 (OH)
LGA-BUF 6x CR9 (OH)
LGA-SYR 5x (4x ERJ, 1x CR7)
LGA-RIC 5x (4x ERJ, 1x CRJ)

About what I expected for ROC. Larger planes and less frequency. Four additional CR7's a day should fit at DL's existing ROC gates just fine.

I'm surprised, though, that BUF has *that* much bigger seat capacity. The immediate BUF catchment area isn't that much bigger a population than ROC's. BUF's Southern Ontario draw is for low fares....will people really drive from Toronto for a legacy CRJ to LGA, especially when WestJet is about to drive fares to LGA down right from YYZ?

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18444 times:

LGA-MHT 2x ERJ
LGA-SDF 1x ERJ


User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18313 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
How was DFW a no-brainer? ...or MIA? They are just doing to pressure AA.

Hence why it's a no-brainer.

Delta will also be picking up US Airways' flights to ILM.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20111215/ARTICLES/111219825


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18317 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Interesting that a couple of AA bread and butter routes are the first ones.

They aren't the "first ones." They are just the "first ones" that were reported in this thread. There have obviously been dozens of new (for Delta) flights and routes loaded today, of which a very small number overlap with AA.

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
With all the new service at DFW, it seems airlines aren't as scared to take on AA as they once were.

I doubt it has anything to do with being or not being scared of AA - even with these new flights, AA will still be by far the dominant player in both the LGA-DFW and LGA-MIA markets, and this is certainly not changing that.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
How was DFW a no-brainer? ...or MIA? They are just doing to pressure AA.

They aren't doing it to "pressure" AA - they're doing it to build up their presence in New York. DFW and MIA are two of the largest markets in the U.S., and both generate tons of demand and local traffic to/from New York. Thus, for Delta - which is focused on building up its presence in New York - these are obvious, logical, "no-brainer" markets that they have to enter.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18249 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
How was DFW a no-brainer? ...or MIA? They are just doing to pressure AA.

They aren't doing it to "pressure" AA - they're doing it to build up their presence in New York. DFW and MIA are two of the largest markets in the U.S., and both generate tons of demand and local traffic to/from New York. Thus, for Delta - which is focused on building up its presence in New York - these are obvious, logical, "no-brainer" markets that they have to enter.

Exactly.

The fact that DFW and MIA are in there isn't just to pressure AA. Those are "must-serve" markets if DL wants to gain its share in NYC. Those are the two biggest markets DL did not serve previously. People were speculating long ago when the slot swap was first proposed that DL would serve MIA and DFW. Long before AA was in Ch. 11

This is the same reason that AA launched routes like LGA-MSP & ATL previously.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18195 times:

LGA-GSO 3x ERJ
LGA-ORF 4x ERJ


User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18165 times:

any word on PVD? The route could do better if an airline actually made an effort on the route compared to US and their scheduling 7-8 hr gaps. Acela Express is routinely sold out from Providence-NY.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18129 times:

LGA-DAY 2x ERJ

No flights loaded yet for:
BDL, PVD, ROA, AVL, ILM, PIT, CLE, CAK, CRW.....amongst those I've tried.

Keep in mind this is the first batch of slots. The second batch will be in June and does not appear to be loaded yet.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9516 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18097 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 6):
I'm surprised, though, that BUF has *that* much bigger seat capacity. The immediate BUF catchment area isn't that much bigger a population than ROC's. BUF's Southern Ontario draw is for low fares....will people really drive from Toronto for a legacy CRJ to LGA, especially when WestJet is about to drive fares to LGA down right from YYZ?

The question is - how much are they avoiding in taxes by flying out of Buffalo?



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18098 times:

Does anyone have the new total number of departures per day at LGA and DCA for both US and DL?

User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18062 times:

I have to say I was expecting PVD... They've cut the 3x day PVD-DCA, so it remains to be seen whether PVD will get a LGA flight or two.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18060 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Interesting that a couple of AA bread and butter routes are the first ones.

Replace "AA" with "B6" and the statement is still true.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18006 times:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 16):
I have to say I was expecting PVD... They've cut the 3x day PVD-DCA, so it remains to be seen whether PVD will get a LGA flight or two.

Its still bookable on delta.com for april, but yea hopefully that service will "swap" too...



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18007 times:

To summarize:

LGA-DFW 6x E70 (S5)
LGA-MIA 4x M88
LGA-BTV 3x (2x OH CR7, 1x ERJ)
LGA-ROC 4x CR7 (OH)
LGA-BUF 6x CR9 (OH)
LGA-SYR 5x (4x ERJ, 1x CR7)
LGA-RIC 5x (4x ERJ, 1x CRJ)
LGA-MHT 2x ERJ
LGA-SDF 1x ERJ
LGA-GSO 3x ERJ
LGA-ORF 4x ERJ
LGA-DAY 2x ERJ

ERJ service is Chautauqua, E70 service is Shuttle America, and the CR7/9 is Comair.
Other cities tried that do not have any flights (to answer those who might ask)
BDL, PVD, ROA, AVL, ILM, PIT, CLE, CAK, CRW, CHO, SBN, FWA, FNT, LAN, TVC, MKE, MDW, FAY, MYR, VPS, TLH, JAN, MLB, CLT, PHL, IAD, BWI, MDT, ABE, YUL, HTS, PHF, BGM, OKC, DEN

Existing service includes:
ATL, CVG, DTW, MSP, MEM, GRR, MSN, IND, CMH, BOS, DCA, CAE, CHS, SAV, BGR, MCO, FLL, RSW, PBI, NAS, MSY (I may have missed a few here)

[Edited 2011-12-15 10:54:43]

User currently onlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17924 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):

Existing service includes:
ATL, CVG, DTW, MSP, MEM, GRR, MSN, IND, CMH, BOS, DCA, CAE, CHS, SAV, BGR, MCO, FLL, RSW, PBI, NAS, MSY (I may have missed a few here)

As I mentioned above, STL is still showing 1 daily on Delta.com unless you can see it has changed? We used to be 4 daily.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17935 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Wonder how many JFK flights they will reduce....MIA, BUF, ROC, SYR, RIC, ORF, and BTV are all currently served from JFK multiple times daily as well....My guess is that some will be reduced while others may be moved entirely to LGA....

User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17898 times:

Is the 2nd phase equal to the first or are they of different size?


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17857 times:

It looks like ROA is on for 1x daily starting July 11.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17775 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 13):
BDL, PVD, ROA, AVL, ILM, PIT, CLE, CAK, CRW.....amongst those I've tried.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):
BDL, PVD, ROA, AVL, ILM, PIT, CLE, CAK, CRW, CHO, SBN, FWA, FNT, LAN, TVC, MKE, MDW, FAY, MYR, VPS, TLH, JAN, MLB, CLT, PHL, IAD, BWI, MDT, ABE, YUL, HTS, PHF, BGM, OKC, DEN

Fingers crossed. I'd say look out for the 2nd round on some of the smaller spokes.


25 jetmatt777 : Source? Not seeing it on the booking engine or in the schedules.
26 PSU.DTW.SCE : STL-LGA remains 4x however switches from all E70 to allCR7 JFK-MIA goes from 5x to 4x JFK-BUF goes from 4x to 3x JFK-SYR goes from 3x to 1x JFK-ROC r
27 Cubsrule : Indeed, DL has served LGA-DFW with S5 metal previously. It was announced and started at the same time (or virtually the same time) as ORD-LGA, in 200
28 rl757pvd : My guesses: BDL 3x PVD 4x ROA 2x AVL 2x ILM 1x PIT 3x CLE 2x MKE 2x MYR 1x (or maybe weekends seasonally) CLT 4x PHL either 0x or 4x BWI 4x MDT 3x YU
29 joeljack : Any chance of OMA getting a second flight OMA-LGA? Seems like 2 flights would be much more appealing to business travelers than a single flight as it
30 DeltaMD90 : With DL decreasing JFK a little bit to prevent overlap with LGA, will DL fill these JFK slots with something else? Will they relinquish these slots? I
31 jfklganyc : Yea! Turboprops with US to RJs on Delta at LGA! Just what we need to maximize slot use! At least 16 of those slots have gone to carriers that will fly
32 mke717spotter : DL already added a daily JFK-MKE for the summer, so does this make it less likely that we'd see LGA-MKE? NW used to run the route a few years ago, sta
33 Post contains links atrude777 : http://www.roanokeairport.com/LinkCl...et=MBh_oJ91H84%3D&tabid=57&mid=484 Had to a search in the previous LGA Slot Swap down below. Oh Ok, I a
34 panamair : Thanks! Also, did you check LGA-HOU or LGA-IAH - didn't seem to see it on your list above..... Can't remember about ORD or MDW, but LGA-DFW was intro
35 jfklganyc : "JFK is only slot-controlled during peak times. The cuts at JFK to accomodate LGA will likely be those during off-peak (hence not slot-controlled) tim
36 TOMMY767 : I'm actually kind of shocked DL can't run mainline to DFW from LGA like they are to MIA. They could definitely fill M88, 738, and 757 on a route like
37 ocracoke : TVC has always been summer seasonal service in years past. I don't see that changing.
38 DeltaMD90 : I'm sure they would, and I'm also sure DL would want to prevent B6/VX from getting these slots and to preserve them for future growth when the econom
39 FWAERJ : I'm surprised that SBN isn't one of the routes. That market has been rumored as a DL LGA addition.[Edited 2011-12-15 12:20:54]
40 point2point : Hmmmm? With UA already at some 5 or so n/s dailies DEN-LGA, and F9 with 2-3 dailies (depending on season) and WN/FL announcing 2 more dailies in June
41 Boeing757/767 : ROA seats go on sale Dec. 31.
42 mariner : Dickie birds tell me that it is happening - Delta 2 x daily LGA-DEN. Nothing is official until it is is announced, of course, but I won't fall over i
43 PIEAvantiP180 : Well that's 45 slots for the first 12 routes. That leaves 55 for the remaining 17, since they announced they are adding 29 neew destinations. And they
44 Post contains images point2point : Hmmmm? Your dickie birds are usually in the know, so I guess that DL does want to crowd into this market........ (and don't get me started laughing a
45 Post contains images mariner : I don't know if this will make you laugh, but I'm also hearing that Delta will start MKE-LGA as well. mariner
46 enilria : ...and where will all these airplanes come from?
47 Post contains images point2point : Maybe DL will work out a deal with BB and RAH. This way, DL can use RAH birds to compete with RAH branded on routes from LGA like DEN and MKE. ) ....
48 MaverickM11 : I assume JFK/MIA/DCA/MEM/CVG? Where else would they come from?[Edited 2011-12-15 12:54:47]
49 ERJ170 : So nothing on any RDU upgauges or additions?
50 PSU.DTW.SCE : I don't know about that, I'm sure they could if they really wanted to trash yields. However DL is showing capacity disipline here. They don't need to
51 FlyASAGuy2005 : Guys, please keep in mind, as mandated by the DOT, the slots have to be implemented in phases. This is only the first half. There has always been a h
52 panamair : Yes, but not every hour of the day at JFK is filled with 82 operations. Off-peak times are precisely just that - off peak. They may currently only ha
53 smoot4208 : So if ILM and ROA get LGA service in July, and F9 picked up MSN/GRR-DCA, it's looking like as of now the only affected communities that lose their ser
54 jetlanta : Check out average fares in the DFW-LGA market and look who the competition is. Then do the same for IAH. No-brainers. Particularly given what DL is t
55 skoker : For some trips, upwards of $350/per pax. It's insane, if you're flying anywhere in the states it's a no-brainer to drive down to BUF. They've been bu
56 Post contains images MaverickM11 : NK @ $63 ow? $113ow for HOUJFK on B6?
57 Post contains links panamair : News conference in NYC tomorrow to announce the new LGA flights: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...idUS219260+15-Dec-2011+PRN20111215
58 ScottB : BHM, ORD, GSP, JAX, MCI, TYS, BNA, PWM, RDU, STL & TPA are also part of existing service. I did and it's not in the schedule.
59 knope2001 : From the Q2 DoT stats, here are the top destinations from LGA and if they have or are about to have DL service. Passengers are total (both directions
60 usairways85 : You're telling me that PHL isn't on the list after all of those US Express flights??? ...I am actually not surprised, I don't see DL serving LGA-PHL.
61 Post contains images jetlanta : LOL..no. FYI...for the year ending 2Q11 the DOT DB1B Average One-Way Fares were: LGA-DFW: $250 LGA-IAH: $255
62 panamair : Also LGA-ALB 1x daily ERJ Just saw that LGA-ORD goes up 2x daily as well (from 11x to 13x daily in March)
63 knope2001 : That would make 18 of the top 20, with only Charlotte and Houston missing...assuming they don't also have things in the works. Not sure that the time
64 FURUREFA : I think you'll find that's not missing - I'm not sure if its been loaded yet.
65 jetlanta : Should be pretty much hourly, no? tick tock
66 pilotfox : I have also heard from the MKE Delta folks that MKE-LGA would indeed be coming once the swap is complete.
67 AVLAirlineFreq : DL already flies AVL-LGA 1x daily and it continues to show in the schedule, FWIW.
68 PIEAvantiP180 : Just saw that FLL goes from 4 to 6 flights a day in the summer. MCO will increase from 3 to 6.[Edited 2011-12-15 16:40:40][Edited 2011-12-15 16:48:24]
69 NW : IAH is in the works.
70 drerx7 : Well, hopefully it will at least be mainline...not that I would fly them.
71 ERJ170 : So why can't I see these flights uploaded in the schedule? Am I looking in the wrong place?
72 PIEAvantiP180 : So far only available on DL downloadable time tables. Its not yet loaded in any of the GDS systems.
73 sxf24 : Why would someone fly LGA-PVD? When you factor in security and tarmac delays, the train is much faster and easier.
74 panam330 : Sounds like there's an even heavier gorilla in NY now. This'll be fun to watch unfold. I'm disappointed to see JFK-SYR cut so far, especially versus t
75 cokepopper : Official announcement friday at noon
76 kstateinALB : Just loaded, 1x daily LGA-ALB (ER4). Leaves at 7:25pm.
77 FSDan : In case anyone is interested, I counted 203 total flights on 3/29/2011 (a Thursday). Per the downloadable timetable: LGA-DFW x 6 LGA-OMA x 1 LGA-MSP x
78 YYZAMS : I remember when Dl flew 3 MD 80s a day DFW - LGA as well as DFW-JFK
79 Post contains images toobz : That is way impressive. It seems Delta wasn't lying when they said they wanted to be New York's airline
80 PSU.DTW.SCE : The nonstop LGA-AVL flight appears to end on 1/3/12. It does not show in the schedule after that time. They should be for sale over the weekend, usua
81 FutureUScapt : IAH and CLT will both see service from LGA. CHO will see 1x daily service; - looks like nothing for ITH though. DL will indeed serve both DEN and MKE
82 Dash8Driver16 : So i know that US is keeping a few of the gates in the US Terminal for the shuttle but also heard they will keep 4 express gates. Any ideas of what th
83 MaverickM11 : Without a massive, dominant hub on one end, I think AA's experience on ATLLGA or DL on LGAORD is going to be far more indicative of their performance
84 FlyASAGuy2005 : That's when they had a hub on the other end.
85 IrishAyes : DFWLGA is a longer route so its better to use a lower C/ASM aircraft, and also being outsourced to a Shuttle America crew. I suppose as long as peopl
86 Cubsrule : How do the CASM of the E70 and the M88 compare? Isn't the choice between an M88 and an E70 a pretty easy one? I'd take the Embraer every day.
87 peanuts : This is all great and all but I would honestly hope that at some point in time (sooner would be better!), that the smallest DL aircraft at LGA would b
88 IrishAyes : Much higher on the M88. Compare how many modern carriers operate the MD-80 series aircraft compared to Embraer jets today.
89 jfklganyc : "DFWLGA is a longer route so its better to use a lower C/ASM aircraft, and also being outsourced to a Shuttle America crew. " The smaller the aircraft
90 FlyASAGuy2005 : I agree.. It take the EMB all day. Zero chance of a middle seat, huge windows, similar seat pitch. Also in F, nice to have the 1-2 layout. Only downe
91 Post contains links SHUPirate1 : New markets: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1517
92 ThreeIfByAir : Definitely a blow for ITH - roughly 19% of its available daily seats (102/550) will be gone, as XJ was running 3x Saab 340 to LGA. Although the drive
93 rwy04lga : Me too! I love to work them and fly on them.
94 lat41 : The fastest Acela is about 2hr.50 Providence/New York and only a couple a day are scheduled in that time due to additional stops on the other ones. B
95 nwaesc : Not sure I "love" working them, but it's certainly my favorite of the types in the DCI fleet.... especially compared to it's closest peer, the CRJ-90
96 jetlanta : DOT DB1B Average One Way Fares LGA-ORD YE 2Q11: American; $141 United: $140 Delta: $141 And this is before the slot swap, with inferior schedules.
97 incitatus : Where is the other half of this announcement - with so much capacity going into LGA, where is the draw-down?
98 SHUPirate1 : Also, for those who would notice, is there any sort of sizeable connectivity in this schedule?
99 rl757pvd : ELM-JFK 1x daily is also a new market not mentioned in the PR
100 IrishAyes : Yes, but the aircraft in comparison here was the MD-88 and not the Airbus 320 series, in which case the former has much higher CASMs and don't make s
101 Post contains links PSU.DTW.SCE : Press Release: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...ule-New-prnews-2863060164.html?x=0 List of Routes / Schedule / Aircraft: http://news.delta.com/i
102 Cubsrule : Let's make this real easy. What is the CASM of a DL M88 on a 1400 mile route? What is the CASM of a S5 170 on a 1400 mile route?
103 PIEAvantiP180 : That is going to be an impressive list of destinations out of LGA once the entire schedule gets implemented. I guess YYZ will be served with a code sh
104 FlyASAGuy2005 : Idk, I actually prefer working the CRJ over most because you can stand all the way up in the bin.
105 ThreeIfByAir : Never mind, after a little digging, it looks like Piedmont will be assuming ITH-LGA for US. Not sure as to the frequency, but better than nothing.
106 rl757pvd : Its unfortunate to see PVD not in this initially, but I wouldnt be shocked if they eventually trim a few frequencies from underperforming routes and a
107 ocracoke : I count only 18 additional mainline flights out of this entire announcement; the 737 to DEN and the -88 to MSP, MIA, RSW, NAS. Can't be much of a main
108 b727fa : So basically this is a essentially a HUGE launch of DCI; not Mainline.
109 mogandoCI : Totally love how this is not considered price-fixing, even though it's well documented that carriers love matching each other's price *increases*.
110 KingAir200 : I wonder if it would be worth it to have more CP in LGA. Then they could offer hot meals. The S5 E70s could move to DTW and MSP and be used on routes
111 PGNCS : Source? What are the hourly costs in question? I really don't know if you are right or wrong, but please provide some data to support your case. Exce
112 Post contains links belizexp : Delta did it five years ago using the E170
113 Post contains links Boeing757/767 : Delta has posted schedules here: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=162
114 ERJ170 : Well dang.. US Airways drops 300 seats and DL adds 70.. something about that doesn't sound too right.. are any of the other flights being upguaged? If
115 MaverickM11 : Right, and that's probably a best case scenario, following a surge of capacity into the market even from the likes of NK and WN. What do you expect c
116 FlyPNS1 : What's funny is you can tell even DL knows they have more slots than they really can profitably fly. PHL-LGA 4x daily...what a joke. IAD-LGA 4x daily.
117 ERJ170 : As opposed to what? using the slots for medium haul? where the service that can warrant LGA flights are already there? I believe DL would likely get
118 Kcrwflyer : No CRW, PVD, and many others.. but plenty of frequency that could be moved to other markets.
119 EricR : Matching a competitor's price is not considered price fixing unless their is proof of collaberation between the carriers to set pricing. The issue he
120 IrishAyes : Unlike RASM information, which is publicly available and published on earnings reports, CASMs are confidential information and as far as I know, only
121 FlyPNS1 : You're missing my point. DL has the same problem that US had in LGA. More slots than they really needed, so DL is slot-squatting some flights on shor
122 rl757pvd : I think over the next year or two we'll see frequency come down in a few places and some markets get added in.
123 ERJ170 : Ahhhh.. Then I misinterpretted your comment. My bad. *bows*
124 ERJ170 : I wish DL would consider a 6 weekly LGA-EWN (New Bern, NC). Currently no service to New York. No service to Washington. And frequently visited by bot
125 nwaesc : True, but it's not enough to trump having to deal with the carry-on bins... Between the CRJ's and DC9's, I'm pretty sure half my scalp is flying arou
126 FlyPNS1 : No problem. In all honesty, I think DL will squat on some slots hoping someday the perimeter rule at LGA gets eliminated/relaxed. In that case, DL wi
127 TOMMY767 : It is mostly Delta Connection. I'm honestly not impressed with these new adds. Majority of these cities DL already serves (or HAD served) and most of
128 ThreeIfByAir : So, this begs the question, why is DL running LGA-PHL and not LGA-PVD? Amtrak is less competitive from PVD, the flight times would be similar (and PV
129 PGNCS : Yes they are, yet your argument hinges on them. How do you expect us to accept your analysis when you have zero numbers to back up your claim? Obviou
130 MasseyBrown : Not sure why DL would start CLE-LGA (5x in July) - unless they know that either UA (8x) or AA (5x) plan on discontinuing service.
131 jetlanta : They are adding 4 MILLION annual seats to LGA. Its safe to say that they are already flooding the market with new capacity just with what they've ann
132 jfklganyc : Is there a list of the "optimized" routes out of JFK (meaning scaled back)? Just curious. Underwhelming. A bunch of 145s and a few MD88s. Looks like t
133 FlyPNS1 : Maybe, but if the LCC's could get a large enough portfolio of slots, they would offer many of these more competitive routes and would have a much gre
134 Buddys747 : Does this mean whatever city is not listed on the new schedule with DL will not be served, even though US is currently serving these cities? (MDT for
135 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It's not as easy as it looks--what was B6's last domestic add at JFK?
136 FlyASAGuy2005 : True that! Not sure where you are or if you've worked the 700s/900s but its a pain putting 30 pink tags in the forward bin...ugh Again, this is phase
137 jetlanta : Not to rehash this again, but LCC's had the ability to make a deal with US on the open market. Hell, WN could have bought US (or AA, for that matter)
138 FL787 : All the March 25th additions are phase one but they announced both phases today (July 11th is phase two). If a route wasn't announced today, there's
139 pvd757 : Sounds like it. So far, this list consists of PVD, BDL, MDT, and I think ITH. There might be a few more. I guess I'll need to hang my hopes on some s
140 flyyul : Will USAirways abandon their current terminal in LGA? Will they be re-located to another area. One can assume that DL/WS will be in the same spot @ LG
141 nwaesc : ...We see plenty of both the -700's & -900's... Ugh indeed. lol.
142 boberito6589 : I find this interesting because it currently has a horrible load factor US is staying in the West Side of the terminal (the side with gate 1-3), they
143 MDTrunner : Well that's sad for MDT. No more LGA. But that helps the MDT-EWR service I suppose. How does this help Delta funnel people into their international hu
144 GoBoeing : Can you or anyone else reading this elaborate a little bit more on what phase 2 will bring and what the timeline is like for that?
145 jfklganyc : "Two hubs across town? It would be like United moving some of their routes (DSM, MLI, SBN, IND, MKE, FSD etc) to Midway. Am I off on this thinking?" N
146 FL787 : Delta announced both phases today. Delta has 151 LGA flights today and with the flights announced today they will have ~265 next summer. That's prett
147 steex : I'm a little surprised that we see 5x YUL, 3x YOW, and 2x YHZ in DL's plans, but no YYZ service (assuming that is indeed the exhaustive list). Though
148 cokepopper : Wont Delta be code sharing with WS service out of LGA?
149 steex : DL and WS don't currently have a codeshare agreement, but there is the possibility that one could be instituted, of course. Right now they just have
150 9w748capt : Very disappointed DL isn't giving OKC a shot with this expansion. Come on, even OMA got daily service! Why not try 1x OKC? An early morning departure
151 tsnamm : Bingo...spread across 2 airports isn't the same as 1 like UA at EWR...had they built a proper terminal at JFK like they should have (ala AAA)this wou
152 RJNUT : dont forget the annual LGA-TVC summer sortie...probably only weekends!
153 klkla : It's very different from UA moving flights to Midway. First of all it's NYC which is a much larger market, especially for busnienss travelers. The pr
154 avi8 : I think we do see the big picture. How does delta expect to fill those transpacific flights with its domestic feeds in another airport? It sort of wor
155 FlyASAGuy2005 : Two very different things. DL is not trying to run a split hub (essentially what it is, yes I know). LGA and JFK serve very different markets due to
156 Kcrwflyer : You're complaining about 4x!? Do you know what US runs to PHL? 4x is reasonable and might even stand a chance of making money with the passengers DL
157 SHUPirate1 : Here's my thought...how about a bus that runs from a "gate" at JFK to a "gate" at LGA, both inside of security (like CO's ABE-EWR bus, only a lot clos
158 Post contains images smoot4208 : US actually does better running running 20x HL-LGA than running LGA-other markets. For some unknown reason, it bothers people that they operate that
159 slcdeltarumd11 : OKC is within the perimeter but its still 1,341 miles so it would take up alot of plane time. I bet you its a route DL looked into and maybe it was a
160 FlyASAGuy2005 : Do you know how long such a bus ride would take? The only next generation solution to connect JFK to EWR is a rail line. And even then it won't be fo
161 slcdeltarumd11 : DL will certainly not have the massive connection opportunities that UA has at EWR its a disadvantage but DL is betting the NYC market is large enough
162 Post contains images nwaesc : Exactly, and I'd even say that way down the list is the idea that "winning in NYC" extends out to the other airports (such as HPN) as a whole. Obviou
163 Cubsrule : If you look at the schedules, many of the new flights (easily more than 50 percent) operate as turns from LGA or RONs.
164 FlyPNS1 : Flowing from where? How many passengers want to connect through LGA to get to PHL or IAD when they can just go nonstop? Plus, the cost of flying some
165 FlyASAGuy2005 : Of course, that should have read JFK-LGA Shows how antiquated the entire perimeter rule is. People will do as they wish to babysit because long term,
166 SHUPirate1 : Anywhere from ten minutes to an hour, depending on traffic. It's not a next-generation solution, of course, but it's a low-cost, high-reward solution
167 9w748capt : While that kind of transfer may be fun to think about and might even be theoretically possible, who in their right mind would want to do something li
168 FSDan : Were you hoping for M88s and 737s on routes like LGA-BUF? I was expecting perhaps a few more mainline adds in established markets (e.g. a flight or t
169 SHUPirate1 : Faced between that and losing that customer, I would think Delta would be smart to do that. Use having both hubs eleven miles apart as an asset, not
170 klkla : It doesn't. They're two totally different operations. Delta has the feed it needs at JFK already to support it's international operation. Soon they'r
171 Post contains images point2point : I'm not sure that scheduling transfers would make any sense. However, sometimes when there are late flights, or passengers missing connections, one a
172 jetlanta : Or they could just put you in a cab at a fraction of the cost of having a regularly scheduled bus service, and you could leave when you were ready...
173 FL787 : Anyone know why LGA-ALB is only loaded through June? Looks like all the flights are now for sale on delta.com.
174 FlyASAGuy2005 : 10 minutes?? WHEN? Have you ever made the transit? I have; many times... Thank you!!! That's what I'm screaming to the top of my lunch in the past 4
175 flyby519 : If they could find an economical and efficient way to get pax between JFK and LGA then maybe we would see something more than 50-70-90 seat RJs in LGA
176 FlyASAGuy2005 : Again, what would be the purpose? The domestic feed for JFK is covered. The local folks are either using JFK or EWR and that dynamic isn't going to c
177 Post contains images point2point : Yea, after thinking about this, it probably makes more sense just to foot a taxi bill for DL. I'm sure it's not more than a few pax a day, if even th
178 jetlanta : Exactly what did you expect them to announce? LHR? NRT? LAX? DL is going be serving virtually every market of any size inside the perimeter with mult
179 Post contains images jetlanta : To provide some real context, here are the actual published schedules for July 17, 2012. You are welcome. Delta JFK/LGA Schedule Org Dst A/C Dept Arri
180 Cubsrule : Here's the problem, I think: there's a real question about whether a carrier can succeed with this sort-of-hub operation at Laguardia. US certainly d
181 jetlanta : US had virtually zero revenue share in the New York point of sale market. They couldn't compete. And they were minor players in the the bigger metro
182 Cubsrule : No question. But they were a lot stronger in many of the outstations than Delta. Of course, you and I both know that being in markets doesn't mean ma
183 jetlanta : BTW, did you even look at the schedules? ERJ's are an extremely small portion of the mix, and relegated almost exclusively to short-haul markets. US
184 Dash8Driver16 : Giving US a run on the shuttle flights
185 jetlanta : I'd love for you name the markets of significance that US was a "lot stronger" in than Delta. The list will go something like CLT PIT GSO ITH...
186 Cubsrule : Most (all?) of the northeast markets - that's not an area where DL has historically been very strong, the various hublet efforts at BOS notwithstandi
187 klkla : One of the biggest differences is that DL is currently #1 at LGA and currently profitable at LGA. This is an expansion of what works for them already
188 Cubsrule : Sure. The trouble is that if you want one-stop shopping, it has to be at EWR. Delta is currently #1 and profitable at ATL. Should they add a hundred
189 jetlanta : You are basically talking about a small handful of markets in PA and NY, right? With the exception of maybe BUF, PIT and ROC, they are all pretty sma
190 teneriffe77 : Does anyone know why SYR-JFK is down to 1 flight a day
191 jetlanta : Nobody cares about one-stop shopping. I have no idea why people think that is a big deal for local O&S paxs. 69.6%v of NYC O&D local traffic
192 jetlanta : I just realized the schedule was truncated. Here is the rest: LGA IAH E70 0700 0955 7 LGA IAH E75 1110 1412 7 LGA IAH E75 1520 1817 7 LGA IAH E75 1845
193 Cubsrule : Partly - US had DCA/BOS/LGA service in a lot of these, and in many had other p2p service as well (some of which, like the 9L flights between BDL/ROC/
194 jetlanta : WHO CARES? What is important is Delta's position in these markets TODAY. They are dramatically stronger in virtually all important markets versus US
195 Cubsrule : I don't know that that's a given. In terms of raw share, it's almost certainly true. But in terms of share relative to the other big players, I think
196 jetlanta : I'm telling you right now, without more analysis, that you are wrong. US was big only in PIT, upstate NY and a few small airports around the region.
197 FlyASAGuy2005 : Look @ how large the market is compared to Chi! They have MDW and ORD. NYC has TWO airports that can support TATL and domestic traffic plus the HUGE
198 Cubsrule : But no one was "big" in many of those markets - most if not all of them had at least 7 or 8 carriers. Now, few have more than 4 or 5. In many of them
199 mariner : At the risk of being off-topic, how does BOS fit into all this? Does Delta want it all there too - or does BOS become less important now? TIA mariner
200 FlyASAGuy2005 : On mart smartphone and it sucks to not be able to selective quote but as to your second; I'm glad you said this. This is the whole point IMO. It is f
201 Kcrwflyer : The New York metro population is about double Chicago. I'm sure that has something to do with it.
202 Cubsrule : But they aren't independent. If I live on the east side and want to fly NYC-PVG, I'm not going to fly LGA-DTW-PVG just to avoid EWR. If I live in Por
203 SHUPirate1 : I have made that trek, and yes, I did say ten minutes. Certainly not when anybody else is on the road though. The hour is certainly more appropriate
204 jetlanta : In which of them will Delta be #2? Easy to forget that Delta is the bigger domestic carrier, especially true in the east. It doesn't matter anyway. B
205 PIEAvantiP180 : They are splitting a market between two competitors and not among themselves. If DL could combine the two they would. But they are given two airports
206 peanuts : Well, this thread has been an interesting read. As in ANY scenario in life, we have "half cup full", "half cup empty" type approaches to it. This is a
207 Post contains images AVLAirlineFreq : Thanks for doing this.
208 STT757 : After acquiring the additional LGA slots DL will still be about 2.5 - 3 million passengers behind UA in the NYC market. And UA has not implemented cr
209 EricR : I don't think you can compare the two for the following reasons: A.) LGA has perimeter rules restricting the type of routes that can be flown. This i
210 jfklganyc : "Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 174): 10 minutes?? WHEN? Have you ever made the transit? I have; many times... I have made that trek, and yes, I did say
211 Coronado : It is really quite amazing how Delta management, even in one of the worst economic times in the last 50 years, so quickly implemented what they said t
212 Revelation : Just curious: what is the net change from when US held the slots? While an interesting topic, that never was an option. The slots were only available
213 peanuts : To where though? Fewer city choices, right? If LCC's would have these slots, would this benefit flying destination options? Would you see multiple da
214 Post contains links flyguy1 : http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...illion-upgrade-at-jfk-airport.html Speaking of JFK, interesting note in the above article. Apparently there wil
215 STT757 : They're mistaken, they're extending the existing above ground walkway that connects T-2 and T-3.
216 FlyASAGuy2005 : Aren't you saying exactly what I said? Or am I confused. Essentially, folks will use whichever airport is most convenient. What part of that dynamic
217 STT757 : Former Port Authority Chairman Ward got a lot of grief for speaking the truth, the truth being at somepoint it's probably going to make more sense fo
218 FlyASAGuy2005 : You generally know a lot about these issues as I really don't. Just looking at JFK foorprint, where's the future growth opprotunity going to go? As i
219 burnsie28 : July 11 is when the second batch starts IIRC.
220 MSPNWA : I concur. Two of my biggest questions. DL will have to do what US couldn't, and that's no guarantee. And I'd like to know when splitting up a market
221 STT757 : Terminal wise or new runways? With regards to new runways the Regional planning authority is currently doing a study on behalf of the Port Authority,
222 Cubsrule : I'm using DOT (i.e. operating carrier) numbers for this list, so it may not be completely accurate, as I'm having to make certain assumptions to brea
223 jetlanta : At what point should I point out that WN didn't even care enough about LGA to out bid WESTJET for a set of slots? People here may think that WN could
224 STT757 : ?.. Regionals at EWR? UA has more mainline flights at EWR than regionals (213 vs 205). A poster posted before that only 31% of DL's LGA flights will
225 jetlanta : I don't have time to respond in full, but two things: 1. I was referring to #2 vs. UA, not in general. It is irrelevant if an LCC is #1 in a market f
226 jetlanta : What % of UA flights operating from EWR that are inside the LGA perimeter are operated by mainline? And what % would be if CO had a scope clause that
227 Cubsrule : Why? One of the LFCs has an NYC hub. How can we just ignore them? F isn't the answer. Most of these markets are CR7 at best. Feel free to correct it.
228 boberito6589 : burnsie28 is right, the second batch get transferred July 11, The schedule for all the slots was put out in the press release by DL, I'm pretty sure
229 FlyASAGuy2005 : I mean terminal realestime but thanks for the breakdown of both. So now the question is, what infrastructure improvements are being considered for JF
230 Cubsrule : The passenger. Say I get out of a meeting at 1530 or 1600, and both DL and UA have 1700 and 1900 flights. Only problem is that DL's 1700 flight is fr
231 FlyASAGuy2005 : I still don't get your argument. You youself said the dynamics haven't changed. People that use LGA will continue to do so. People that use JFK or EW
232 Cubsrule : There are no (or few) people who use LGA exclusively. They need the international and/or out-of-perimeter options at JFK and EWR. Business travelers
233 klkla : LGA for the 1700. You would actually have a channce of making it from Manhattan. But in reality that scenario is not likely. Because your flight is a
234 Cubsrule : Flip it, then - it's the same difference. There are few if any markets where they are flying LGA and JFK flights at the same time.
235 jetlanta : Because LCC's aren't flying to many important O&D markets from LGA other than Florida. When you are talking about IND, STL, BNA, ATL, CMH, DTW, e
236 FlyPNS1 : FL flies to ATL. F9 flies to DEN. F9 flies to MKE. WN flies to MDW. NK flies to DTW. FL flies to CAK (a substitute for CLE). Are these not important
237 Cubsrule : So EWR counts but JFK doesn't? What sense does that make?
238 jetlanta : I said "many", not "any". You named 5-6, of which all but two are hubs for the LCC in question. But all of that is irrelevant to the point I was maki
239 peanuts : I fully believe it! This is very significant. Some of us have already realized this, if you read their posts on a.net. Others are more in denial abou
240 Cubsrule : If we are talking about DL being larger than UA, we are considering both LGA and EWR (because DL is bigger than UA from LGA specifically in just abou
241 Post contains images jetlanta : We were talking about the presence of DL versus UA in the out-stations (at least I was). My point was that because Delta is a larger player in the CM
242 FlyPNS1 : I find it equally stupid, yes. It all depends on the how high the fares are before the LCC enters. Obviously, in some markets, fares are relatively l
243 Cubsrule : Then why is CHI-SDF fifty percent larger than CHI-CVG? Why is ATL-CLT more than twice as large as BNA-ATL? Of course, that doesn't address markets li
244 TOMMY767 : This says it all. LGA is a regional jet hub for Delta. No but certainly on routes such as LGA-ORD/DFW/IAH/RDU etc. They are excellent aircraft but ag
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