Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
QF And MH To Merge?  
User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 400 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11936 times:

http://www.mmail.com.my/content/87492-masqantas-merger-way


I found this article on the Malay mail website

I don't know how reputable the paper is, but I think this is more of an editorial rather than any rumours / talks.

We all know that the QF sales act will be well and truly working against a possible merger between the two carriers. But in Saying that, if the one airline became a single entity, how does that stand out in the QF sales act?

[Edited 2011-12-17 02:32:11]


CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11859 times:

QF have flirted with the idea of merging with BA and MH in the past, so it would be fair to suggest that they have a plan in place to work around the Qantas Sale Act.

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11450 times:

A merger like IB/BA? I could see that working?

User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11057 times:

This would be a total disaster for Qantas. Doing business in Asia when you are not Asian is hard at the best of times. MH has way too many endemic issues that any sort of merger would result in Qantas' total demise


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineISTGRU From Australia, joined Jun 2011, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9217 times:

There have been discussions between QF and MH in the past of a tie up of some sort, including a merger. My personal view is that the new QF Asian venture will end up being a JV with MH. If this happens, in the long term you would expect greater cooperation including a possible merger - AF KL style - in the very, very long term

User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7752 times:

The AF/KL merger and the BA/IB merger were within the EC, which is easier than combining an Australian and Asian organisation. But, when MH becomes integrated with OneWorld, there will be many of the benefits of a merger, without having to invest any money in each other.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 7):
The AF/KL merger and the BA/IB merger were within the EC, which is easier than combining an Australian and Asian organisation. But, when MH becomes integrated with OneWorld, there will be many of the benefits of a merger, without having to invest any money in each other.

To make it worthwhile for QF, they need to get more of the action rather than just feeding MH. Both carriers can gain here. There are a lot of people who fly QF domestically in Australia that chose SQ and Emirates for long haul travel based on two things. Frequency and destinations. If these people could get a high quality product offered on some kind of QF group product, via a hub outside Australia, they would likely immediately switch from SQ/Ek etc back to the QF group offering, largely on the back of the frequent flyer program incentives. But QF can't operate these routes and that kind of frequency alone and MH's recent cutbacks show it's feeling similar forces, probably largely thanks to the rapid expansion of middle east carriers. If both carriers are smart, they've got something to gain here. From what I have gathered, the overwhelming majority of pax (say something like 75%) on QF flights from singapore to LHR and Frankfurt have continued from Australia without the singapore stopover. That means, it doesn't matter if they go via singapore or KL or any other south east asian city for that matter. If this new arrangement can produce (1) a competitive product offering in terms of hard and soft product - this they shouldn't have too much trouble achieving (2) high enough frequencies (3) enough destinations to connect to in Europe and East Asia ( 4) competitive pricing then strength of the frequent flyer program should be enough to get these pax to start flying via KUL. You could even come up with something like MAS flies to these cities and QF flies to these etc...or get the new carrier to take over from both. They boh have something to gain here. But change, will always upset a lot of vested interests.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

It is a pity that one of the cities that MH has announced that it will drop is Rome. That would have been a city that Qantas could have used MH as the QF service, rather than Jetstar.

I do not think there will be any feeding of MH by QF. If somebody wants to go from Australia to India, they would fly MH services for the whole journey, with a QF code.


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 4):
This would be a total disaster for Qantas. Doing business in Asia when you are not Asian is hard at the best of times. MH has way too many endemic issues that any sort of merger would result in Qantas' total demise

And there lies a real opportunity for them to merge. Share business ethics, synergies and costs... For a long time Malaysian has been a fruit for the taking. With the OneWorld alliance membership looming I can certainly see a closer joining of business. KUL is a massive airport under utilised and there are serious opportunities and benefits to be made. I hope this becomes reality.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 10):
KUL is a massive airport under utilised and there are serious opportunities and benefits to be made. I hope this becomes reality.

And unlike Changi, it's got room for serious expanision and it already has a world class terminal there to use. I do like the architecture at KUL better than even changi. But the real thing is for changi to expand they need to go into the ocean, which is not exactly cheap. At KUL, they just need to knock over some palm oil plantations and there you have it, space for new runways. On paper it looks perfect. The real issue is going to be politics. MAS as for a long time been a play thing for various government ministers etc. It will require a real attitude change on both MH's and QF's part to make it work. QF maintenance workers, for instance, will be furious if QF gains overhaul facilities in KUL. They could even send 737s there, by rotating them through darwin. With a hub there, DRW should be able to support KUL flights for onward connections to europe alone, not to mention places as far away as hong kong. I could see this hub being very much like the former NW and now delta hub at MSP. in its own right, it couldn't support all of those detinations including transatlantic to London, Amsterdam (3 times daily!) and Paris, but because of the good central location of the hub, all these things become possible. With enough feed from Australia, KUL could become very vaible. Traditionally MH used to be about the 5th largest carrier on the list of carriers ex australia. It's long been knocked off that list with the rise of the middle east carriers. QF can't survive and compete alone without it. A joint operation makes perfect sense. And one way of avoiding national pride issues etc would be for the new routes to be operated by a 3rd new carrier out of KUL, with both MH and QF feeding it, and some kind of joint service agreement letting both sell each others flights and both share costs on those flights. Ala Delta/KML-AF type thing. Effectively funciton as one carrier. Then we could see Rome etc return under the new carriers name. Mh keeps its hand and network offering cities it would otherwise need to drop, and Qantas starts to become competitive again. The past issues have to be put aside AND THIS HAS TO HAPPEN SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
KEY REASON. EMIRATES WILL TAKE 100 OR SO A380S AND QATAR AND ETIHAD A CHASING THEM! if you wait till these aircraft are in service, EK and friends might have already gained too much market share. THIS STORM IS COMING - LIKE AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!

People hung up in the past must learn that they need to be proactive and change, before change sweeps them away. Get in first and try and get some control over it, rather than merely reacting to it. The old days are gone. Forever. We must look forward and take charge of the situation.


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

I can see this merger working rather than having a Singapore-based Qantas subsidiary which would have to compete with SQ. Politics could get in the way of things though (what happened to the proposed merger earlier this year of the Singapore and Australian stock exchanges?)

If it happens, probably QF would keep a few key routes and the rest would be on a MH codeshare. I think it could work very well for both parties.


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):

People hung up in the past must learn that they need to be proactive and change, before change sweeps them away. Get in first and try and get some control over it, rather than merely reacting to it. The old days are gone. Forever. We must look forward and take charge of the situation.

I really do wish Airliners.net had a 'like' button. Very (eloquently) well said, Mein Freund.

[Edited 2011-12-17 21:18:29]


146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Actually having a quick look at the 737-800s weight/performance, the HGW version of the -800 should be able to make CNS and TSV to KUL non-stop. There wouldn't be any ability to carry freight unless it had a stop in darwin, but that could be another advantage. And the new A320s with the new engines should certainly have the range. should be a bit over 6 hrs flying time. That would be an advantage over Emirates etc in these markets. I'm guessing even a 767 would be too big for both of these cities but a 737 might just be able to make it work, especially in these days of resource money coming out of that part of the world. Maybe even several times a week from Karratha or Port Headland?

User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 12):
I can see this merger working rather than having a Singapore-based Qantas subsidiary which would have to compete with SQ. Politics could get in the way of things though (what happened to the proposed merger earlier this year of the Singapore and Australian stock exchanges?)

And the same thing could happen with a QF/MH merger. Especially with a government effectively run by ex-union leaders. The more likely solution is QF buying a stake in MH or forming a joint venture on a new airline.

The current government isn't going to support anything that risks Australian jobs in the short term even if it protects them in the long term.


User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 978 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

This was just a matter of time, i have been saying this for months now... here are a few things to think about;

- QF announce they want an Asian based Premium carrier.

-MH had always had strong ties to Skyteam in particular KL and AF and had been flirting with the idea and getting ready for joining Skyteam, and then all of a sudden, when QF announce they want this new airline, MH are set to join OneWorld with QF being the sponser airline.

- QF Fleet complements MH fleet perfectly. B744, A333, A332, B738 and B734

-QF would gain B772's which would be a game changer for QF.

-MH have just absorbed all of FY jet services (B738 & B734) back into the mainline fleet.

Thats just my 2 cents worth of observations... and also AJ was up talking to MH execs the other week ..........
I personally would like to see where this goes..... interesting times for our airline ahead, but kind of exciting   Goodluck i say!!



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineCHANGYOU From Singapore, joined Nov 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2999 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 14):
-MH had always had strong ties to Skyteam in particular KL and AF

MH was never close to AF. Rumoured AF was keeping MH away from Skyteam. But good that KL still code share on MH despite MH moved to OneWorld.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 14):
QF announce they want this new airline, MH are set to join OneWorld with QF being the sponser airline.

MH had no choice bcoz Skyteam took VN and GA over MH. MH's preferred alliance was Skyteam. They were left with OneWorld. Perhaps its a blessing in disguise. MH had to join an alliance to keep up with the competition.

It was as recent as this/last year during IATA meeting in Singapore that MH was invited into OneWorld. It was also reported then OneWorld had not figured what to do with MH's inception but will come up with something. At the same time...DJ announced codeshare with SQ and since then just few days ago...DJ/SQ first codeshare flight was announced. SIN-DRW operated by MI. Talk about efficiency? So when is the collaboration between MH/QF and OneWorld? Still talking I guess...


User currently offline777MAS From Malaysia, joined Sep 2003, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Thread starter):
I found this article on the Malay mail website

I don't know how reputable the paper is, but I think this is more of an editorial rather than any rumours / talks.

I regard it as fantasy. The Malay Mail is part of what certain quarters in Malaysia label as "mainstream media", the credibility and integrity of which is to be doubted.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 3):
This would be a total disaster for Qantas. Doing business in Asia when you are not Asian is hard at the best of times. MH has way too many endemic issues that any sort of merger would result in Qantas' total demise
Quoting btblue (Reply 8):
And there lies a real opportunity for them to merge. Share business ethics, synergies and costs...

Share business ethics? You mean like corruption, kickbacks, inflated contracts, etc.?
Share costs? You mean QF to share the high cost of MH's payroll?

The point is this: MH has way too many issues facing it, and needs to get its own house in order before they even become attractive as a merger partner! And they need to get rid of that MYR1 million painting hanging outside the Chairman's room!

QF risks tying an albatross around its own neck if it were to enter any merger with MH in its current situation!


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting 777MAS (Reply 16):
QF risks tying an albatross around its own neck if it were to enter any merger with MH in its current situation!

This could be part of the attraction of a joint venture with QF. Seed certain routes to the new airline, and let QF people largely run it rather than some of the current 'political' appointments etc. I will agree there is a significant risk as both these carriers must change their mindset about various things.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
TAM And LAN To Merge - Part 2 posted Wed Aug 18 2010 15:47:47 by LipeGIG
TAM And LAN To Merge posted Fri Aug 13 2010 12:37:31 by MaverickM11
Official OA And A3 To Merge posted Mon Feb 22 2010 08:25:10 by ota1
Meridiana And Eurofly To Merge posted Mon Nov 23 2009 10:15:00 by Humberside
Tuifly And Germanwings To Merge posted Sat Jan 26 2008 03:49:34 by Columba
GB And Bmed To Merge? posted Sat Oct 7 2006 09:35:03 by Speedmarque
QF And EK To Do Battle? posted Sun May 8 2005 15:34:57 by Monteycarlos
AirTran And Midwest To Merge? posted Tue May 3 2005 19:02:35 by HermansCVR580
QF And OzJet To Compete On Canberra Route posted Thu Mar 10 2005 03:30:25 by 777ER
LH And Swiss To Merge? posted Wed Jan 19 2005 18:49:46 by Western737