Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
LCC's Flying Transatlantic?  
User currently offlineJaxMan19 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14569 times:

I was wondering if B6 or SW or any new start up airline could fly an A320 or a 737 to connect smaller mid sized cities like JAX, TPA,BNA,PVD,and CMH to European cities like CDG, LHR and FRA? would it be too expensive? What do you guys think?

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14516 times:

An A320 will not make the trip westbound. I think one day B6 may fly BOS/JFK-Europe, but that would be far off and they'd need a new plane type. If any new American LCC did it they would probably go to STN/ORY/HHN, and European carriers would not use CMH or JAX but certainly PVD or TPA.


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14433 times:

Quoting JaxMan19 (Thread starter):

I was wondering if B6 or SW or any new start up airline could fly an A320 or a 737 to connect smaller mid sized cities like JAX, TPA,BNA,PVD,and CMH to European cities like CDG, LHR and FRA?

They could do it if the planes have the range. They wouldn't make any money though.

Quoting JaxMan19 (Thread starter):
would it be too expensive?

Yes. To make it work they would need larger planes. Air Berlin is trying to make the business model work, and I think it can in limited markets.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1177 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14389 times:

Well, from the EU side there is always Michael O'Leary with his "Beds and Blowjobs Business Class" idea for TATL, but nothing has ever come of that.

Always good for a laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIY24BErBE


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25569 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14338 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Sun Country flies MSP to London - via Gander - every summer.

http://upgrd.com/matthew/sun-country...ic-service-to-london-stansted.html

I assume it will fly in 2012 because it is on the route map, but It believe it has shifted from STN to LGW:

http://www.suncountry.com/page/1/destinations.jsp

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2057 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14219 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Sun Country flies MSP to London - via Gander - every summer.

http://upgrd.com/matthew/sun-country...ic-service-to-london-stansted.html

I assume it will fly in 2012 because it is on the route map, but It believe it has shifted from STN to LGW:

http://www.suncountry.com/page/1/destinations.jsp

mariner

No word on start up date or days of the week, They wanted to do Fri./Sat. over and back but cut back to only once week. A/C shortage??



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3949 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14196 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I remember City Bird back in the late 90s. They started TATL operations in 1997 with a couple of MD-11s configured in a 3-4-3 seat layout. They used to fly out of BRU to EWR, MIA, LAX and SFO. They flew MD-11s and 767s TATL until they went out of business in the early 2000s. I remember how excited most Belgians were because the fares to the United States were low.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinevlad1971 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14044 times:

I think SunWing of Canada still flying to Europe from Canada ( LON, CDG ,FCO,LIS ) At least they were last year ......

User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13826 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Over history plenty of Low Cost transatlantic operations have existed such as friends clubs in the 1960s , ABC charters in the 1970s that lead to the Laker Skytrain services, Virgin Altantic as initially formed, Peoplexpress, Maxjet. EOS, and Silverjet to name few.

With the exception of Virgin all folded.

Also remember LCC does NOT mean LOW FARES - the last three were business services and today BA still operate a low cost subsidiary from France that charges business fares !


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13782 times:

The LCC model, at least here in Europe, os based on point to point connections, not connecting traffic, and there are not many city pairs that justify regular flights. Maybe the A319NEO will be a game changer, because I expect it to combine enough range with good economics - but too much money got burned this way already. And when I see that sometimes LH offers FRA-JFK for €399 - how could a LCC go below that?

User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13698 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 9):
The LCC model, at least here in Europe, os based on point to point connections, not connecting traffic, and there are not many city pairs that justify regular flights. Maybe the A319NEO will be a game changer, because I expect it to combine enough range with good economics - but too much money got burned this way already. And when I see that sometimes LH offers FRA-JFK for €399 - how could a LCC go below that?

That's it you see part of myth marketing is that LCC automatically leads to low fares well it doesn't !

What these carriers (Ryanair ,Easyjet, South West, JetBlue etc..) offer are very complex fares structures and algorithms to maximise yields and when your multi million dollar asset operates just one return rotation per day you end up with a similar fare structure to the legacies and in some cases actually higher costs due to lack of feed fare offsetting legacy operators employ (thats simply applying most of the fare paid to the long haul and effectively operating the feed sector at a loss)

Simply put the only way Low fares type operations over the North Atlantic and other long hauls work is when linked to packages such as the Air Transat flights, Thomas Cook Group flights, Virgin Atlantic Beach fleet plus Vegas ops

Plus a few loss leader and off peak fares from the legacies.

Time and again every other business model fails close inspection.


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13279 times:

Quoting vlad1971 (Reply 7):
I think SunWing of Canada still flying to Europe from Canada ( LON, CDG ,FCO,LIS ) At least they were last year ......

YYZ-GLA being launched for 2012 - 2x weekly 767.

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13053 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
when your multi million dollar asset operates just one return rotation per day you end up with a similar fare structure to the legacies and in some cases actually higher costs

easyJet operate some long routes on one rotation per day, such as MAN-SSH, LON-AMM, so what's the difference between these routes and say MAN-BGR, is it just a little bit of a longer sector with more ocean below?

[Edited 2011-12-19 03:39:00]

User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1433 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12677 times:

You can bet Easyjet and Ryanair (and probably others) are running some calculations and projections to see if a TATL business based on the NEO or MAX is viable. Without being privy to those numbers it is difficult to guess their conclusions but it would certainly be nice to see, say, Easy NEO flights from EDI, GLA, MAN, NCL and/or BFS into BOS. As many pointed out here and elsewhere, these flights are not much more in flight time than the MAN-SSH or EDI-TFS routes which Easy already operate.


Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1800 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12604 times:

LCC's will operate long haul one day.... Just not anytime in the short/mid term.

Everyone imagines that long haul LCC will start with the big city pairs when in actual fact it could so easily be the bucket and spade routes such as MCO, CUN, BGI etc etc. We are already seeing the charters struggling on long haul and my belief is that this is partly due to dynamic packaging/self packaging which happened short haul. The LCC's became dominant at your AGP's, PMI's and your ALC's and the charters re -focused on mid haul. In the end the LCC's followed and now they are every bit as common in TFS, SSH etc as the charters are. I just see the next step to be leisure long haul in the next 5-10 years. Purely my own prediction.

Generally speaking the likes of LGW-AMM and MAN-SSH follow two very short sectors but in the Winter they quite often just operate those two extra long sectors. Many still believe that the LCC's still religiously stick to the classic low cost attributes of the late 90's, early 00's. The high sectors/utilisation philosophy goes out of the window on the current long flights, hence the 3 hour rule of he stelios era has long since gone the same way. Night stopping where necessary occurs currently at easyjet, albeit on relatively small scale, and they use big slot constrained airports which was also a big no no.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12370 times:

Costs of operating longhaul services are not compatible with LCC operations. Just look at all the failed longhaul LCCs, from People Express to Oasis Hong Kong. And those that are trying (e.g. Air Berlin) are in very poor financial shape.

Major carriers with their sophisticated revenue management systems can easily match LCC fares and offer all the benefits of their FFPs and large networks and drive the LCCs out of business.

Issues involving airport curfews and the difficulty of obtaining slots at commercially attractive times at many airpots also makes it difficult to reach the aircraft utilization that LCCs need to cover their costs.


User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12370 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 14):
Generally speaking the likes of LGW-AMM and MAN-SSH follow two very short sectors but in the Winter they quite often just operate those two extra long sectors.

All year round MAN-BGR-MAN would be an overnighter and the same aircraft could operate MAN-AMS-MAN in the daytime, depending if MAN-AMS in the winter would be fat enough.


User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12314 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Major carriers with their sophisticated revenue management systems can easily match LCC fares and offer all the benefits of their FFPs and large networks and drive the LCCs out of business.

Yes, on say MAN-BGR, BA, AA, DL, VS, UA, BD would start a route war with say U2?


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12223 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 14):
LCC's will operate long haul one day.... Just not anytime in the short/mid term.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Costs of operating longhaul services are not compatible with LCC operations. Just look at all the failed longhaul LCCs, from People Express to Oasis Hong Kong. And those that are trying (e.g. Air Berlin) are in very poor financial shape.

Wait? What about D7, who are making hundreds of millions of dollar profit every year, and JQ who are apparently doing extremely well. Then consider Scoot, which is looking to be the next big thing (if SQ gets their way).

I don't think it's the pure concept that's flawed, it's the market we're talking about it being executed in. There isn't room for the growth of mini-players in the transatlantic market (just look at how dominated it is by the big BA-AA-IB and LH-UA tie-ups) like there is in other regions. If one of the big players were to back a small LCC player then I think it would be successful, with the massive resources at its disposal being the way over the market obstacles.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12085 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Costs of operating longhaul services are not compatible with LCC operations. Just look at all the failed longhaul LCCs

Yes please do some research in to Air Asia X and their profits/expansion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirAsia_X#Future_expansion



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinejonnyclark From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10597 times:

Let's not forget that Jet2.com offer (a few) flights to New York every year on their 757's from a variety of airports in the north of England. Whilst mainly a publicity stunt, it does warrant noting they do continue to offer it every year. Small glimmers like this and Sun County are starting to test the water I feel within the industry. Plus with easyJet now also flying to Reykjavik, there could be the possibility in the future of a transatlantic point to point connection over there with a base in Reykjavik?


Jonny, commercial pilot & founder of Thedesignair
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9703 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10360 times:

I think we will be seeing more LCC transatlantic flying. Norweigian Air Shuttle will be soon receiving 787s in an economy/premium economy layout with no business class and propose New York as a destination.

Quoting JaxMan19 (Thread starter):
I was wondering if B6 or SW or any new start up airline could fly an A320 or a 737 to connect smaller mid sized cities like JAX, TPA,BNA,PVD,and CMH to European cities like CDG, LHR and FRA? would it be too expensive? What do you guys think?

I don't think a 737MAX or A320NEO series airplane is the right one for the job. With a higher density all economy layout, they'll have some range problems unless we see a surprise payload increase that hasn't been announced yet. Also, despite the costs of using the more expensive airports like LHR, the larger efficient widebodies will be tough to compete with.

B6 has grown at the expensive of other airlines. It's core markets are markets that are already well established. B6 does it with lower costs and has taken control of the Northeast - Florida market, which is their bread and butter. They have taken over many Caribbean routes as AA shrunk. I don't think B6 would be the airline to start flying from smaller mid sized markets like you mention. If they are going transatlantic, they'd likely keep their strategy and go for New York - London and try to get their costs down so that they have lower CASM and can compete. However doing this with smaller planes on a route where premium cabins earn a significant portion of the revenue would be a challenge.

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Sun Country flies MSP to London - via Gander - every summer.

Wasn't the purpose of that route so that Sun Country could maintain ETOPS so they could do DOD charters that require ETOPS?



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 17):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Major carriers with their sophisticated revenue management systems can easily match LCC fares and offer all the benefits of their FFPs and large networks and drive the LCCs out of business.

Yes, on say MAN-BGR, BA, AA, DL, VS, UA, BD would start a route war with say U2?

Not nonstsop, but several transatlantic carriers also serve BGR with connections (DL and US come to mind). They can easily match or undercut a LCC's fares for a while until the LCC finally gives up.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 19):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Costs of operating longhaul services are not compatible with LCC operations. Just look at all the failed longhaul LCCs

Yes please do some research in to Air Asia X and their profits/expansion.

The subject of this thread is Transatlantic LCCs. Carriers based in North America and Europe don't benefit from the same type of low cost structure as those in Asia where wages/salaries and certain other costs are lower.

[Edited 2011-12-19 09:29:05]

User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9911 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Krudly put on a typical long haul three Plus class service the

Quoting richardw (Reply 12):
easyJet operate some long routes on one rotation per day, such as MAN-SSH, LON-AMM, so what's the difference between these routes and say MAN-BGR, is it just a little bit of a longer sector with more ocean below?

No its not just i bit more ocean its about 2500mile of more ocean - Younneed ETOP s certification for a start and therefore a dedicated fleet ( Sure could be used on inter Europe/Canaries during daylight i suppose) limiting the ability to move through the system as both Easy and Ryan do today.

Not a lot of sea really on the way to Egypt other than a dash across the Southern Med and remaining in easy reach of Cyprus/Crete all the time.

Acknowledged the Egypt and Jordan service are VERY long sectors for LCC/Flexible fares style ops, however the Egypt routes certainly follow the traditional IT route with heavy sales of Hotel accommodation forming what are really packages.
Must say The Amman service remain an enigma !

This package approach is also done by Jet2/Holidays and Monarch/Cosmos Group plus TCX and TOM.

Again i emphases the need for significant fare balancing on long sectors . In the case of the Legacies they get the majority of the revenue and potential profit from as little as 20% of seat/tickets (Full Economy/Business/First) per flight with the remaining 80%(Economy) perhaps just covering costs.

And again they have a feed fare structure that allocates the largest proportion of ticketing on the long sector plus of course they have alliances with either pooling or on-selling (Often the code share partners ticket will be higher or limited availability)

The standard Low Fares structure can not accommodate these variables and without allowing feeder fares they fail.

I know that Jet2 have operated a series of NewYork services close to Christmas however these really aren't that different to good old ABC charters as the majority of the sales have included accommodation.

As i said previously i do not rule out LCC carriers operating Trans Atlantic but the business model will have to differ from the Ryanair/Easy/JetBlue/South West - approach because that can not work period !


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9813 times:

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 20):
Let's not forget that Jet2.com offer (a few) flights to New York every year on their 757's from a variety of airports in the north of England. Whilst mainly a publicity stunt, it does warrant noting they do continue to offer it every year.

It's not a stunt, it means that at that time of year there is enough of a market to make some money on a Christmas shopping charter. It means nothing else alas.


25 747400sp : DO NOT GIVE THEM AY IDEALS!! 737 and A32x, should be band from going across the pond or Hawaii. Now BA all business class A318s, is the only exceptio
26 rutankrd : Plus Private Air for various LH Group with 73NG and A319 !
27 YULWinterSkies : They would need aircraft that have the range to do it non-stop, which neither 737 and A320 can do (and a 757 would be border line or impossible for m
28 david_itl : Why? Caravelles and 727s have done Atlantic crossings with a stopover, with better aircraft performance they could do it more fuel efficiently now an
29 rutankrd : Those Scandinavians were resourceful were they not , oh and remember the Wardair 721 !
30 747400sp : Let me add to this, Odyssey Air new all business C-Series TATL service coming in the future, is also an exception. I did not know Caravelles did TATL
31 LGWflyer : Yes they flew to LGW this year for the first time and will return around May.
32 david_itl : Beliveve both Sterling and Transwede went to MIA from CPH and ARN respectively using the Caravelle, think Sterling may have used the 727 as well. Amer
33 CargoIT : It seems like there are less 757s flying TATL than there used to be. As a PAX, I think this is good. I'd much rather be on a 67 or an A330. Even a 57
34 2travel2know2 : IMHO, If there is a sustainable market between Northern Ireland or Scotland and Nova Scotia or New England, and if U2 planes were ETOPS certified, may
35 1stfl94 : I think the transatlantic market is too crowded to get LCCs in, especially given that they can't cut many of the costs associated with long haul fligh
36 richardw : I don't think DL or US would bother, they haven't really got that much to lose on a route such as LPL or MAN to BGR.
37 YVRLTN : I think an established brand like FR or U2 could make it work, but not with a narrowbody. Use A333's 9 abreast and you have a lot of seats to sell. Im
38 eugdog : I do not think the LCc model works as well omn long haul. Reasons are 1) more people are prepared to pay a bit extra for comfort on longer flights. I
39 stlgph : Sun Country returning to London is not a complete guarantee .... but leaning towards likely.
40 Post contains links MaverickM11 : The minority of D7 departures are longhaul, in the sense of Transatlantic stage length. Most of their flights are within the range of the 320, and th
41 richardw : Yes, but if a rotation to say BGR from MAN is 15 hours overnight, that leaves 9 hours for shorter, fatter rotations during the day from MAN to Europe
42 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : Compare U2's longest routes with some "short" transatlantic routes from U2 base airports in U.K.: LGW (51°08'53"N 0°11'25"W) LXR (25°40'16"N 32°42
43 Post contains images Viscount724 : PrivatAir disposed of their A319s a couple of years ago. I think 2 are now with Aegean and 2 with Etihad. And their 737NGs are BBJs with extra tanks,
44 expatmatt : CityBird was actually one of the first transatlantic LCCs (Laker was probably the first).... CTB flew scheduled flights from BRU to EWR, MIA, MCO, LA
45 richardw : For LHR-YHZ in high summer 21-28 July 2011, AC has AC861 London, Heathrow (LHR) Terminal 3 Halifax, Halifax Int'l (YHZ) Sat Jul-21 12:35 15:15 0 6hr4
46 BOStonsox : If any LCC goes TATL, they will not go to BGR unless it's a fuel stop. BGR doesn't even have service to BOS! For Boston they would serve PVD, as it ha
47 LGWflyer : Well I hope to see them back again! Did you know how the loads were?
48 AADC10 : Maybe, maybe not. The increased range will encompass more destinations but fuel burn will be an issue. The A320NEO and 737MAX series while more effic
49 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : If U2 has the aircraft for LTN-YHZ (or LPL-YHZ), could U2 fly that route return for GBP500 and still make money? I mentioned BGR because the distance
50 BOStonsox : Right now they can't, but PVD has had service to the Azores and there are customs there. MHT doesn't have customs AFAIK, however there is a long-enou
51 shamrock604 : Folks, It's already been done. As recently as 2002, Aer Lingus offered EUR 79 one way fares from Shannon to Boston. They "refined" the product to a st
52 2travel2know2 : Seems that MHT does have customs immigration, but not in-terminal. Not sure if MHT terminal has room, but one could guess that if WN or another airli
53 richardw : My guess is yes it will be, but we may have to wait sometime for the right aircraft to be available and for U2 to have reached some sort of plateau a
54 BOStonsox : I don't know about BFS, but SNN, DUB, and STN would definitely work.
55 shamrock604 : This all seems a bit of a pipe dream. There are already airlines flying from Dublin and Shannon to Boston and New York and many others, one of which h
56 fly2yyz : Sunwing has been thrown into the discussion already, but how about TS? They have had some pretty discounted fares for a scheduled charter airline...so
57 GT4EZY : I knew this would come up. First of all it's not time zones that would affect crew hours but the distance/flight times. But more importantly, having
58 shamrock604 : Of course time zones affect crew hours. I'm sure you have heard of the principles of "local nights", acclimatisation etc. Doing DUB-BOS is not compar
59 Santi319 : It is not that big of a deal, 75x6 =450 perdiem in my airline is $2x24hrs= 48 times 6 = 288 plus 450= 738 plus lets say $20 for transportation (if no
60 aviateur : It's not that LCCs haven't already tried this in years past. PeopleExpress and Laker come to mind. People flew 747s between Newark and London; Freddi
61 Viscount724 : In addition to Air Florida, World Airways and Transamerica Airlines (ex-Trans-International) also operated some scheduled transatlantic services duri
62 shamrock604 : You are focusing on one issue here - the crew cost. I mentioned several others, and people are selectively ignoring those. The point I am making is t
63 Post contains links PI767 : With all due respect, I don't think that People Express's trans-atlantic operations were the cause of their demise. Without going into a completely d
64 rutankrd : Totally agree . This thread goes round and round in circles. Their are those that just won't acknowledge that the business model don't work, even giv
65 slcdeltarumd11 : B6 BOS-LON/CDG/AMS/DUB maybe on the A321 NEO maybe? I could see jetblue trying it and being successful. Southwest i think has zero drive for Europe an
66 Post contains images jcos15 : Most long haul LCC's have failed because they were point to point and were only long haul carriers. Since many on this thread insist on studying the h
67 richardw : All depends on how long the sector is. If an aircraft is scheduled to do one rotation, taking off at 9.30am and returning at 10pm on the same day, it
68 GT4EZY : Not on East coast US/Caribbean they don't. Hence why most carriers have their crew downroute for barely 24 hours these days on those routes. Even VS'
69 rutankrd : I think we are approaching the problem quite similarly actually, however i repeat part of myth marketing is that LCC automatically leads to low fares
70 2travel2know2 : I'd bet B6 BOS-DUB/LBA/LTN w/A319 ETOPS trials likely before anything w/A321NEO. Most likely with scheduled tech-stop some-days somewhere in Canada w
71 brilondon : First they do not fly trans-atlantic, and second and more importantly it has been tried before. People Express and Freddy Laker are two that come to
72 richardw : What has changed since the days of Freddie Laker is that more and more flights are available from regional UK airports and passengers are more in lov
73 MaverickM11 : There's no market for that. And moreover, you can fly transatlantic NYCDUB nonstop for $450 roundtrip including all fees and taxes. So if airlines ar
74 richardw : So the market is NIL, even in high summer school holidays?
75 richardw : In high summer school holidays you can't and there may not be more than 3 seats available at $450 on any flight.
76 2travel2know2 : Maine - UK/Eire may be very iffy, but Maine's BGR is by all means the closest "major" U.S. airport w/F.I.S, to UK/Eire. Massachusetts (could be BOS o
77 luckyone : A quick look at the current offerings to and from Bangor Airport pretty much confirms that the local market to and from there is next to nothing. Wer
78 cslusarc : What is so special about BGR? Bangor has a populations near 150,000 - which is kind of too small to support a nonstop transatlantic flight. Although
79 BOStonsox : BGR is the closest airport to Europe, so it is often used as a refueling stop. I believe that it is a huge stopover point for military charters as we
80 MaverickM11 : Right, but that's a pretty flimsy case to build an LCC airline around--two months of solid demand, ten other months to find something to do with a lo
81 2travel2know2 : In the case U2 gets an A319 ETOPS, U2 could use it May-September for YHZ/BOS(MHT) and December-April for leisure destinations SID/BJL out of LTN/LGW;
82 MaverickM11 : Ignoring the fact that there's next to no demand for a lot of that, the 319 ETOPS has a higher CASM than just about anything across the Atlantic--tha
83 Pu : We are not not victims of a marketing myth and you are not able to perceive the truth through the "myth" while the rest of us are not. LCCs start a n
84 Post contains links Viscount724 : I should have clarified that I was only referring to longhaul LCCs, the subject of this thread. There are rumours that Air Asia X is considering drop
85 Pu : Such a clarification is not necessary because it is painfully obvious you are referring to longhal LCCs. You are applying the same failed predictions
86 Post contains links LondonCity : There is some more information here about Air Asia X dropping its flights to ORY and LGW. The fact that Air Asia management will not comfirm not deny
87 CoachClass : Isn't USAirways an LCC flying TATL?
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
LCC Flying To/from Spain posted Mon Dec 13 2004 23:55:51 by PA006
Any LCC Flying Between New York And Washington DC? posted Sat Jun 19 2004 22:55:13 by Ams
Changes To KL/NW Transatlantic Flying Fall/winter posted Wed Aug 6 2008 01:45:56 by KL577
Flying LCC From AKL To MNL Or CEB Possible? posted Thu Jan 5 2006 12:03:59 by Aviationfreak
New Transatlantic LCC Turns To Fliers For Name Pt2 posted Wed Sep 22 2004 01:56:12 by UA744Flagship
New Transatlantic LCC Turns To Fliers For Its Name posted Thu Sep 16 2004 19:17:11 by UA744Flagship
New Transatlantic LCC, For Real! posted Tue Jun 8 2004 19:42:08 by UA744Flagship
Flying British Airways Transatlantic... posted Tue Feb 17 2004 19:25:05 by Demoose
Why No Transatlantic LCC? posted Tue Dec 2 2003 15:26:02 by Steph001
Flying American Transatlantic - What To Expect? posted Tue Jul 9 2002 14:22:12 by Andie007