Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
How Is UA's HKG-SIN/SGN Doing?  
User currently onlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9181 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7037 times:

How is UA's HKG-SIN/SGN doing? I understand that they have downgraded it to a B 737-800.

I also heard rumours that they will be using the B767 for intra-asia flying. Will that include HKG-SIN/SGN?

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2053 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

It's so sad to see this flight going from a 744 to a 738. As this changed happened, they also closed down the downtown office they had just in front of Lau Pa Sat. I guess with all the LCCs flying SIN-HKG they probably couldn't compete on the route.

Is the SIN-NRT flight still a 772?

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-LAX | VX LAX-FLL | AV MIA-BOG-MIA | VX FLL-LAX | VA LAX-SYD
User currently onlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6834 times:

Do they serve free alcohol still?

Quoting Coal (Reply 1):
Is the SIN-NRT flight still a 772?

It is now a B 747-400


User currently offlinecysafan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
Do they serve free alcohol still?

Yeah they still do. More information located below: (extract from United Website)

United Economy®
Shortly after takeoff, customers will enjoy a beverage service with snacks, soft drinks and premium liquors, beer and wine. Alcoholic beverages are complimentary on flights within Asia and on international trans-Pacific flights.

As for the B747-400 , it 's now a 1X daily SIN-NRT or only the second option: SIN-HKG , HKG-NRT (Both flights are deployed with B737-800s)


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6516 times:

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
I also heard rumours that they will be using the B767 for intra-asia flying.



I saw that rumor too, someone had the idea that UA were converting the domestic 763s to International configuration to operate in Asia. The fact is those newly configured 763s are going to be replacing PMCO 762s to Latin America and Europe as well as replacing PMCO 757s on Trans-Atlantic routes from EWR. They are not going to be flying HKG-SIN etc..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5882 times:

Why don't they just use the B 767-200s for intra-Asia or domestic flying? Geeeeeeeez

Wonder if we will see HKG-SIN going back to a B 747-400. Or at least a B 777-200ER? MAYBE during peak season?


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6153 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

HKG-SGN is now a CO 738. And until sometime in January it's not even operating daily.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently onlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5611 times:

HKG-SIN/SGN are now CO flights. Do they serve free alcohol in economy?

User currently onlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5527 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
HKG-SIN/SGN are now CO flights. Do they serve free alcohol in economy?

CO was not serving free alcohol on EWR-HKG in coach and that was this month. CO always charges in coach. They call the flights UA now. I would pull out the Hemispheres mag after they F/A announce it as a UA flight and point where it says alcohol is free in UA economy within Asia or to or from Asia. See what they say. If they say this is a CO flight then I would say why don't you announce it as such then.



Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25514 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 1):
I guess with all the LCCs flying SIN-HKG they probably couldn't compete on the route.

They dont need to compete.

Flight is meant for USA-SIN traffic.

Prior UA had no choice but utilize a massive 744. Now with the merger they have access to Pacific based CO aircraft which can cleverly be slotted in and cover some of the intra-Asia flying.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Flight is meant for USA-SIN traffic.

Prior UA had no choice but utilize a massive 744. Now with the merger they have access to Pacific based CO aircraft which can cleverly be slotted in and cover some of the intra-Asia flying.

Except that it's a major downgrade of service levels that essentially drive all premium pax to the NRT connection. Maybe that's their plan after all to make HKG-SFO/ORD more O&D heavy.

I agree 744 HKG-SIN is a waste but it should be minimum international business standards, meaning CO 752 w/ flat bed or some sort of 763. Taking a 15 hour ORD-HKG flight on UA flat bed then switch to another 4 hours on some near-upright 38" junk is unacceptable for those paying $8K RT in J.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2415 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 10):
Except that it's a major downgrade of service levels that essentially drive all premium pax to the NRT connection. Maybe that's their plan after all to make HKG-SFO/ORD more O&D heavy.

EXACTLY.

With NRT demand softening over the past year (but rebounding a bit as of late), UA would rather shift some more high-yield traffic over the NRT hub to ensure the HKG operation is catering to as much O&D as possible. There's no need for duplicate service SIN when most of the 744 from HKG-SIN is junk (low-yield) traffic.

SIN-NRT remains an IPTE-configured 747 and NRT offers more connections than HKG on UA to the likes of HNL, IAH, LAX, IAD or SEA. It's really not the unmitigated disaster that some on the various message boards make it out to be.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 11):
EXACTLY.

With NRT demand softening over the past year (but rebounding a bit as of late), UA would rather shift some more high-yield traffic over the NRT hub to ensure the HKG operation is catering to as much O&D as possible. There's no need for duplicate service SIN when most of the 744 from HKG-SIN is junk (low-yield) traffic.

Welcome to my respected users list - one of the few cool heads here.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25514 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 10):
Except that it's a major downgrade of service levels that essentially drive all premium pax to the NRT connection. Maybe that's their plan after all to make HKG-SFO/ORD more O&D heavy.

I agree 744 HKG-SIN is a waste but it should be minimum international business standards, meaning CO 752 w/ flat bed or some sort of 763. Taking a 15 hour ORD-HKG flight on UA flat bed then switch to another 4 hours on some near-upright 38" junk is unacceptable for those paying $8K RT in J.

I don't see it unacceptable at all.

Its no different then some one flying HKG-SFO-(pick your domestic US city), and sitting on a 2-class aircraft for those same hours.

Or any different than flying a major European airline and connecting someplace withing Europe onboard their narrow body fleet, which in most cases is even worse having essentially 3x3 economy product still up front.

Changes of products is a very common thing and hardly unique to United. Matter of fact it also happens all over Asia. I cant tell you the number of times I've gone from long haul to regional/domestic products on top Asian carriers as well.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
cleverly

I am not sure if pitting a UA 738 against a CX 744 and an SQ A380 is really a clever move. If UA is really only interested in the SIN-USA market, then there is no need to operate two routes into SIN. It is obvious to me that UA is also after a slice of the intra-Asia market, and like the OP, I am also wondering just how much better are they fairing with their 738 weapon.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Changes of products is a very common thing and hardly unique to United. Matter of fact it also happens all over Asia. I cant tell you the number of times I've gone from long haul to regional/domestic products on top Asian carriers as well.

I've recently flown a "regional" A330 on CX HKG-NRT.... it's no flat bed but it's miles ahead of CO 738, esp in premium class.

To the Y pax it makes practically zero difference, but the lack of competitiveness comes from the front cabin and narrow-body (most large Asian carriers use WB on trunk intra-Asian routes - that's why you see 333 and 772 from your neighbors flooding your doorstep while you'll never see a LH 330 in LHR).

The competition is Asian carriers, so in order to compete, UA must rise up to that level.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25514 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 14):
I am not sure if pitting a UA 738 against a CX 744 and an SQ A380 is really a clever move. If UA is really only interested in the SIN-USA market, then there is no need to operate two routes into SIN. It is obvious to me that UA is also after a slice of the intra-Asia market, and like the OP, I am also wondering just how much better are they fairing with their 738 weapon.

Historically the UA/DL predecessors Pan Am and Northwest had to offer 5th intra-Asia fares to help fill aircraft.
It was simply an issue of arithmetic as the same gauge of aircraft would continue beyond gateways such as Tokyo.
Unlike Europe where the airline could base smaller aircraft such as 727s to feed larger 747s, 5th freedom sales were important to backfill traffic that deplaned at the Asia gateway.

This led to carriers doing burgeoning business with Asian consolidators however the idea has always been to sell US-Asia first, and not rely on 5th freedom rights. With ability for UA to more correctly apply appropriate gauge now intra-Asia following the merger it no longer needs to as actively chase after 5th freedom sales.

The reason SIN gets 2 flights, is because the demand is there. Cutting back to a single flight via NRT was a drop too much from its prior double daily capacity. Additionally the SIN feed is still needed to help full the HKG Pacific sectors.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
The competition is Asian carriers, so in order to compete, UA must rise up to that level.

And how would an Asian carrier get you to off line Denver, Houston, Philadelphia, Boston, Miami or hundreds of cities in the Americas?

They would most connect you to another airline. So while you might enjoy a nice sleeper across the Pacific, you'd get whatever the domestic product was for your continuation. Same situation exist in Europe. Its how things are.

At the end, the competition is not intra-Asia for US airlines, its point to point across the Pacific. How to sell end to end ticket from Tulsa to Tokyo, or Hong Kong to San Antonio as an example.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4788 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
To the Y pax it makes practically zero difference, but the lack of competitiveness comes from the front cabin and narrow-body (most large Asian carriers use WB on trunk intra-Asian routes - that's why you see 333 and 772 from your neighbors flooding your doorstep while you'll never see a LH 330 in LHR).

The competition is Asian carriers, so in order to compete, UA must rise up to that level.

  

And it is WB not just on trunk intra-Asian routes for the major Asian airlines. CX and SQ flies WBs to every destination, including those 30 minutes away, as does JL and NH on all international routes. It is just so common to see WBs here that a NB on a trunk Asian route on a full service carrier comes across almost as a joke...



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 17):
CX and SQ flies WBs to every destination, including those 30 minutes away,

Which I suspect struggle to turn a profit. CX and SQ are in small, correction, very small countries with no domestic flying. I suspect if they had domestic flying, they would probabaly have NB doing the routes.
Are you saying therefore that BA for instance should be running WB from LHR to EDI, ABZ, GLA etc to cater for those F class passengers that just landed from HKG etc?
At Least on CO/UA out of HKG on a 738 you get a decent F seat. Thats not an option flying in Europe, not matter who the European carrier is.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
And how would an Asian carrier get you to off line Denver, Houston, Philadelphia, Boston, Miami or hundreds of cities in the Americas?

They would most connect you to another airline. So while you might enjoy a nice sleeper across the Pacific, you'd get whatever the domestic product was for your continuation. Same situation exist in Europe. Its how things are.

So essentially the US airlines would only win where the Asian carriers don't reach? The US carriers are free to race-to-the-bottom all they want domestically, but internationally, you compete with whichever foreign carriers you're up against.

The bean counters strive for "good enough," the visionaries strive for the best.

ps : SQ SIN-DME-IAH, JL NRT-BOS soon


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 18):
Which I suspect struggle to turn a profit.

You suspect wrong. SQ's 30 min route to KUL is one of it's top money-spinners until LCCs inundated the route a few years ago, but it is still making money. SQ is also making bucket loads out of CGK which is merely one hour away. sending as many as eight WBs there very day. The eighth daily was introduced recently in Sept, despite the route seeing competition from a staggering 12 different airlines.

CX's shortest routes are to places like TPE, and I don't think I need to say much on just how profitable this route is.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 18):
small, correction, very small countries with no domestic flying. I suspect if they had domestic flying, they would probabaly have NB doing the routes.

And what is the relevance of this? We are talking about intra-Asian regional routes, not domestic routes, unless you are suggesting the American carriers also fly domestic Asian routes? And may I also point out that SQ and CX certainly do operate NBs, which are through their regional subsidiaries, but that still does not move away from the fact that WBs are extremely common in this part of the world, and not just on trunk routes (I did not mention domestic, but I am sure that will become common very soon in China and India).

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 18):
Are you saying therefore that BA for instance should be running WB from LHR to EDI, ABZ, GLA etc to cater for those F class passengers that just landed from HKG etc?

Are you saying a domestic UK flight is equivalent to a SIN-HKG flight?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 18):
At Least on CO/UA out of HKG on a 738 you get a decent F seat. Thats not an option flying in Europe, not matter who the European carrier is.

SIN-HKG deserves the same level of service as JFK-SFO/LAX flagships / p.s. flights.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4576 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 20):
SQ's 30 min route to KUL is one of it's top money-spinners until LCCs inundated the route a few years ago

Is, was, make your mind up but we digress.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 20):
And may I also point out that SQ and CX certainly do operate NBs, which are through their regional subsidiaries

But not on their own metal right.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 20):
Are you saying a domestic UK flight is equivalent to a SIN-HKG flight?

You completely missed the point. If it makes you feel better then lets have the BA F passenger flying in on CX but his final destination with BA is AMS. Do you think he should get that sleeper suite on that short leg??

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
SIN-HKG deserves the same level of service as JFK-SFO/LAX flagships / p.s. flights.

I would love that to happen but its just not going to so if you went the bells and whistles go via NRT, simple really.


User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 22):
I would love that to happen but its just not going to so if you went the bells and whistles go via NRT, simple really.

Exactly, and it really it's even that big of a distance penalty if you're not coming from the very east coast.

West Coast:
NRT-SIN%2C+SFO-HKG-SIN&MS=wls&DU=mi" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-NRT-SIN%2C+SFO-HKG-SIN&MS=wls&DU=mi

East Coast:
NRT-SIN" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EWR-HKG-SIN,+EWR-NRT-SIN


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25514 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

Amazing some of you guys truly believe United is even trying to compete on a sector like HKG-SIN against the likes of CX or SQ with 10 odd flights between them.

United serves a place like SIN because there is demand from it's US home market.

Changes of gauge and cabin furnishings are extremely common globaly and UA use of 737 in Asia is hardly a unique nor unacceptable way to provide connecting services.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 huaiwei : In other words, while CX can fly transpac flights profitably while relying on its Asian feed, UA cannot fly the same route profitably while relying o
26 mogandoCI : Are you the only one with this impression? We're all talking UA vs. SQ vs. CX on Singapore to USA. That's where UA is competing (since they don't JV
27 LAXintl : CX gets a hell lot of feed in the US from partners like AA. People flying MD-80s from all across the continent to connect to CX. Nothing wrong with U
28 huaiwei : If they are not competitive on any sector, then how do they make money and stay viable as a company? As I mentioned above, if UA somehow cannot fill
29 LAXintl : Oh common its business 101. An airline does not strictly look at sector profitability, they look at the network. UA operates KWI-BAH and soon DXB-DOH
30 mogandoCI : I lived in HKG and SFO, and flew UA on that route more than a dozen times. What's your point ? If UA really wants to get out of it, then they should
31 MaverickM11 : Do you think SQ makes money on ATHIST? AUHJED? MUCMAN? CX on YVRJFK? KL on KULCGK? Lots of airlines operate tags that in an ideal world would be on s
32 mogandoCI : Can't speak for SQ or KL but CX definitely makes a crap load on YVR-JFK. The route is void of any meaningful competition (in the winter months, it's
33 Viscount724 : But CX schedules are unattractive for the local market (redeye eastbound and arriving YVR at 1 AM westbound). And since they don't use pre-clearance,
34 mogandoCI : The flight has nothing to do with oneworld FF base, but loyalty to CX from Chinese passengers (which account for 25-30% of Vancouver's population) as
35 JohnClipper : The HKG-SIN and HKG-SGN are not showing up on UA website or timetable. Is it a glitch or did they drop service?
36 rdh3e : Look at Continental.
37 JohnClipper : I looked on the Star Alliance timetable and CO.com...nothing...all bookings route me from HKG-NRT-SIN...
38 mogandoCI : Perfect for those trying to do a mileage run.
39 rdh3e : It shows up for me. I just did a RT from SIN-HKG for this weekend. I think there are Day of Week variances, in there, but it also showed up for me in
40 Viscount724 : AC's EWR-YVR-EWR schedule is to maximize connectivity at YVR to/from Asia. It's also good for the Alaska cruise traffic, an important market during t
41 quiet1 : Really? I thought it was less than four hours.
42 JohnClipper : Ha! Not for US$4,000!
43 VC10er : I find the United First Class international lounge to be wonderful - except for the ONE broken chase lounge chair. Have they fixed that ONE chair? Al
44 LAXintl : Fly XXX-NRT-SIN. NRT-SIN is a 744 this winter.
45 Stratacruiser : When I last flew CO99 EWR - HKG about a month ago it had a SIN extension in the form of the CO 738 that replaced the UA 744. On the day I flew (11/13)
46 United1 : If I remember right one aircraft does GUM-HKG-SGN-HKG-GUM and the other NRT-HKG-SIN-HKG-NRT.
47 mogandoCI : If AC weren't routinely quoting USD 750 for that 4.5 hour flight I might consider flying them.
48 Post contains links rdh3e : Probably NRT, you'll be in International first the whole way. Even though it is a touch longer. But I suppose you get more miles.... http://www.gcmap
49 United Airline : How long does it take to fly from NRT to SIN?
50 CODC10 : EWR-NRT would be the PMCO BusinessFirst product.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Is UA's ORD-HKG Doing? posted Mon Jan 2 2006 06:07:27 by Collegestud
How Is UA's PS Service Doing? posted Sun Jul 23 2006 17:38:20 by SKGSJULAX
UA's HKG-SIN/SGN+ Soon To Restart HKG-NRT posted Wed Oct 5 2011 22:25:06 by United Airline
How Is Zimbabwean DC10 Operator Avient Doing Now? posted Sat Jul 5 2008 08:44:23 by FFlorida
How Is Emirates DXB-IAH Service Doing? posted Thu Jan 31 2008 14:52:17 by BoeingFever777
How Is FL And F9 Codeshare Doing? posted Sat Jan 12 2008 15:14:48 by 7E72004
How Is AirTran's BWI-SEA Service Doing? posted Fri Jun 1 2007 21:28:30 by UsAirways16bwi
How Is "Delta Connection" Doing In New England? posted Mon Nov 13 2006 00:27:32 by Cs03
How Is BDL-LAX/LAS/SLC Doing? posted Thu Jul 13 2006 06:36:45 by DeltaGuy767
How Is Trans State's Spin Off Doing? posted Sat Mar 25 2006 16:23:47 by Flyboy80