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Delta Vacates Dormant Mexico Routes  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 46
Posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7910 times:

Delta Airlines filed with the DOT notice that it will withdraw designation on several currently dormant Mexico authorities and that it holds no intention of resuming the routes with its own metal.

Austin - Cancun
Memphis - Mexico City
Minneapolis - Mexico City
San Antonio - Cancun

OST-2010-0133
OST-2010-0196
OST-2010-0230


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7850 times:

Not really surprising to see any of these. Mexico routes are weak right now. MEM-MEX and MSP-MEX bombed and tourism to Mexico is suffering big time.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7763 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Austin - Cancun
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
San Antonio - Cancun
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):
tourism to Mexico is suffering big time

I would guess that tourism is really off if both Austin and San Antonio can't even fill a seasonal weekly flight to this overwhelmingly tourist destination.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Memphis - Mexico City
Minneapolis - Mexico City

With these two though, I think MSP is a bit of a surprise that they can't fill a weekly seasonal, considering connections, but with MEM, well, even with connections, no real surprise.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7408 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
With these two though, I think MSP is a bit of a surprise that they can't fill a weekly seasonal, considering connections

The problem was never really LF but stage-length o the flight considering the relatively weak performance. They'd rather stick the local and connecting pax on one of the many flights to Atlanta and connect from there. Look at MSP-HNL. It    would have continued to hold its own but again, why uffer on such a long route when you have legal connections through LAX, SEA, SFOand SLC. The first 2 with the flights originating in Minneapolis and opeating on the same equipment to HNL.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7303 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Austin - Cancun
Memphis - Mexico City
Minneapolis - Mexico City
San Antonio - Cancun

What a surprise!

More for Frontier to apply for or could we see Southwest making a bid for them?

I could see WN doing AUS-CUN, not sure if MEM or MSP would be worth it. Totally could see F9 applying for the other SAT-CUN.

MEM or MSP don't provide much feed the way AUS would in comparison but MSP or MEM could signal further expansion domestically if WN sees something there in MEM especially with the pulldown of the Delta Hub.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Personally with the new closer relationship with AeroMexico, Im surprised Delta cannot and has opted not to pursue a link from its MSP or MEM hubs to Mexico City.

Regardless of the actual segment performance seems like the routes would be beneficial from a broader network and integration aspect.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7114 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):
Mexico routes are weak right now.

I would like to disagree, I flew from PHX-SJD at the end of October and the plane was full, no open seats at all.

A few people were actually bumped because of this...



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7017 times:

I believe that CO still operates the SAT-CUN route on Saturdays.

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1293 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

SJD is really one of the few Mexican markets that have not felt the impact the other destinations have

User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7443 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6944 times:

How long have they been dormant for?.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17335 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6923 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Im surprised Delta cannot and has opted not to pursue a link from its MSP or MEM hubs to Mexico City.

Did you see the load factors for either? No amount of codesharing could save them.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6876 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Personally with the new closer relationship with AeroMexico, Im surprised Delta cannot and has opted not to pursue a link from its MSP or MEM hubs to Mexico City.

Regardless of the actual segment performance seems like the routes would be beneficial from a broader network and integration aspect.

Delta has been pretty clear that every route must now stand on its own. What exactly that means is unclear; however, it is pretty obvious there aren't many markets with meaningful traffic to MEX that are severed via MEM or MSP, but not from ATL or another DL/AM gateway city.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24999 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6772 times:
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Quoting atrude777 (Reply 4):
More for Frontier to apply for or could we see Southwest making a bid for them?

I'd be very surprised if Frontier applied for AUS-CUN. It tried it years ago, in the original Mexican expansion, and it was a real turkey - a dozen pax on some flights - even with a tour operator involved (Funjet, perhaps?).

If Southwest can make it work, good luck to 'em.  

mariner

[Edited 2011-12-21 15:46:02]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6142 times:

I had no idea that MSP-MEX was not doing well and that it was, in fact, terminated. Pity.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineAUSisAwesome From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 7):
I believe that CO still operates the SAT-CUN route on Saturdays.

CO/UA also operates AUS-CUN. The second that CO announced the flight DL pretty much ended it. CO has a much bigger passenger-base in AUS than DL does.


User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 672 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
With these two though, I think MSP is a bit of a surprise that they can't fill a weekly seasonal, considering connections

But the connections are terribly inefficient - only someone in Winnipeg or Duluth is going to appreciate a more direct routing thru MSP than what is available over DFW, IAH, or ORD. Being north of most of its connecting service area is a big negative for MSP for north-south routes. East-west connections are completely different, which is why MSP is still a great hub for DL, just not for Mexico flights.

Passengers from the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions have efficient routings by connecting in ATL (the Great Circle route for BOS-MEX overflies ATL, for example).

MEX, in my understanding, is more of a business and VFR market than a tourism destination, like CUN. Thus a weekly flight would be pretty much worthless.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 15):
MEX, in my understanding, is more of a business and VFR market than a tourism destination, like CUN. Thus a weekly flight would be pretty much worthless.

While MEM-MEX was from the very beginning a once weekly service to essentially let an idle A32X or 738 fly and help relieve ATL with connecting pax, I believe MSP-MEX started as daily service. Can anyone confirm? Maybe I am wrong. Thanks.

Oh, and yes... sadly MEX does not command the number of foreign tourists that it deserves. In that sense it is from the U.S. more of a business and V.F.R. destination (and in DL's particular case some DL to AM connections for V.F.R. fliers and tourists going to secondary Mexican cities).



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Austin - Cancun
San Antonio - Cancun

Watch for WN to jump on these.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 11):
Delta has been pretty clear that every route must now stand on its own. What exactly that means is unclear;

It means that the route most work without route subsidies (i.e. there must be demand to fill the seats). Some of the airlines are now taking the position (and rightly so) that there is no point in starting a route, even with subsidies, that has no demand, and will close after the subsidy runs out. There was a panel discussion some weeks ago at NETWORK in SJU where it was mentioned that subsidies do not solve the inherent problem of demand building.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):

Watch for WN to jump on these.

WN already got approved for SAT-CUN, that's why I said, I'd expect AUS-CUN for WN and SAT-CUN to happen for F9.



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24999 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2536 times:
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Quoting atrude777 (Reply 18):
WN already got approved for SAT-CUN, that's why I said, I'd expect AUS-CUN for WN and SAT-CUN to happen for F9.

If Southwest already has SAT-CUN - why would Frontier go for it? I don't think there is any big Apple presence at SAT.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):

If Southwest already has SAT-CUN - why would Frontier go for it? I don't think there is any big Apple presence at SAT.

mariner

Hadn't considered the Apple part, just the way F9 had been going into big international expansion mode, it made sense to me to simply add SAT-CUN.

Honestly to me in terms of SAT-CUN, I don't think WN and F9 would be directly competing, while yes they would be flying the same route, I was just simply thinking "Hey DL pulled out of SAT-CUN, that gives F9 another authority to try for"

F9 doesn't seem to be worried about competition so much from WN, I would hope WN being on SAT-CUN shouldn't scare F9 away from trying for it. As much of a big WN fan as I am, and I know you're aware of it, I am also for competition and variety, so I'd love to see F9 on SAT-CUN too to give WN a fight, and to help out the Customers in giving choices.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineflybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

I recently talked with an AS Captain about the decreasing number of flights to Mexico. And he told me just what I thought - tourism is way down. This is also the reason why AS is flying so many flights to Hawaii instead.
Mexico is damaged goods right now and people are looking elsewhere for vacations.

He also said that AS had a crew get shot at in Cancun. Shortly thereafter AS stopped flying there.



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting flybynight (Reply 21):
He also said that AS had a crew get shot at in Cancun. Shortly thereafter AS stopped flying there.

What was the crew doing to get shot in CUN?

As didn't stop CUN because a crew got shot there. They stopped because the yields were atrocious on that stage length.

[Edited 2011-12-22 14:02:45]


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24999 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2081 times:
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Quoting atrude777 (Reply 20):
F9 doesn't seem to be worried about competition so much from WN, I would hope WN being on SAT-CUN shouldn't scare F9 away from trying for it.

I can't know the future, but I would be surprised to see Frontier on SAT-CUN - I was very mildly surprised to see Southwest on, but it gets a fair amount of feed, I guess.

I think that for Frontier/Apple there are so many other possible opportunities (many of them not in Mexico) without butting heads with Southwest again.

I look at the old USA3000 route map - when it was at its peak - and salivate.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16):
I believe MSP-MEX started as daily service. Can anyone confirm? Maybe I am wrong. Thanks.

I remember it being daily.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16):
Oh, and yes... sadly MEX does not command the number of foreign tourists that it deserves. In that sense it is from the U.S. more of a business and V.F.R. destination (and in DL's particular case some DL to AM connections for V.F.R. fliers and tourists going to secondary Mexican cities).

That would help explain the MSP-MEX load factor in F versus Y. F wasn't too bad. But Y loads were beyond dreadful.


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