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Rekkof To Build A Major F100NG Plant In Brazil  
User currently onlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19446 times:

Wow, its from Dec 14, but couldnt find it here.

So there is finally some movement from the side of REKKOF, or NG Aviation.


Quote:

Impressed by the opportunities offered by the growing demand for air transport in Brazil, Dutch aeronautical company Rekkof is set to build a major plant in Anápolis, Goiás, to develop their new Fokker 100 airliner.

Rekkof’s presence in Anápolis will generate around 2,000 jobs, and its reputation as an aviation pioneer will attract workers from all over Goiás.

http://www.worldfolio.co.uk/reports/...f-rekkof-industrial-do-brazil-n821

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19433 times:

Is the F100 really that successful ? (honest question, I didn't think it was.) If so, who do you think would order it? I know many US airlines have a 100 seat gap...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineRainmaker From Brazil, joined Jan 2006, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19386 times:

Hi,

I didn´t even have to read the story to state that Rekkof or whatever aeronautical startup company can only start throwing money at facilities if and only if it has serious expectations of generating income. Sales haven´t shown up for any new fokker 100 NG. So why bother?


User currently onlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3369 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19367 times:

Old news, construction of the factory started mid november.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fiXwVrKbmE



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1548 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19362 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
If so, who do you think would order it? I know many US airlines have a 100 seat gap...

At one time, there were numerous F100's in the US. It was right at the time the RJ really took off, and the cost of running a 100 seat Fokker with the mainline versus a 50 seat RJ with a lower cost regional made the F100 go away in a hurry.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently onlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 938 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19236 times:

The site looks to be a little chaotic. I'm not sure I would want my company represented by that type of footage. None the less there is some fairly serious equipment, so all systems must be go!

User currently onlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 19157 times:

Quoting Rainmaker (Reply 2):
Sales haven´t shown up for any new fokker 100 NG. So why bother?

How do you know if they have serious commitments or not? A lot of airlines have shown interest, incl KLM, and who knows what deals have been made behind the scene.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 18789 times:

Fokker 100 is about 8,000 lbs. lighter(with 10,000 lbs. less MTOW) and about 2 feet shorter than the current E-190. I don't have any numbers on the NG version of F100, but one would expect it to keep the nearly 13% weight advantage relative to E190NEO. However, the CRJ-1000 is lighter than Fokker 100 by about 3,000 lbs.

It is a crowded market without a clear niche and competitive advantage for F100NG.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18728 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 7):
It is a crowded market without a clear niche and competitive advantage for F100NG.

As a passenger I would certainly take an F70/100, NG or no NG, over a CRJ.



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17513 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18706 times:

Wow I thought resurrecting MX was one of the bigger lost causes out there; I was wrong. By a long shot.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18633 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 7):
It is a crowded market without a clear niche and competitive advantage for F100NG.

...re-engined with a PW GTF it would go like a rocket and only sip fuel, no?
Not sure if the heavier engine/thrust would be ideal for that a/c size though...


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2900 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 18409 times:
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If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the Fokker 100 have a bad reputation in Brazil with the problems TAM had many years ago? I once read this in Flap magazine that TAM was in a big hurry to get rid of them and replace them with A319/20's

It was a number of years back, but it stuck with me that the general population of Brazil had come to believe that the F100 was bad. (not my opinion - just what I read)

The F100's that I see for Avianca, are they ex TAM?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineRG787 From Brazil, joined Nov 2010, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17984 times:

I don't know if it has something to do with this but UnB (University of Brasilia) just started a new graduation course for aeronautical engineering, and Anapolis is not far from Brasilia.

User currently offlinemd11sdf From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17064 times:

The Boeing 717 performs the same mission as the original F-100. Yet, there is very little demand for it around the world. How can anyone think that pouring millions into selling an "improved" 29 year-old design is a great idea?

Improved engines, leading edge slats and LESS underfloor cargo capacity than the MD-95 (B-717-200) gets you what? Most likely, limited sales and a major financial loss.
That said, they do build very nice aircraft in Brazil and in theory, COULD POSSIBLY improve on the F-100's operating numbers, versus the 717. The Boeing does have an OEW almost 16,000 heavier than the original F-100.

Terry in UPSville Kentucky.



LOUISVILLE, where your camera may as well be a stinger misslie to the Airport Police.
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 16225 times:

Quoting md11sdf (Reply 13):
The Boeing 717 performs the same mission as the original F-100. Yet, there is very little demand for it around the world. How can anyone think that pouring millions into selling an "improved" 29 year-old design is a great idea?

Improved engines, leading edge slats and LESS underfloor cargo capacity than the MD-95 (B-717-200) gets you what? Most likely, limited sales and a major financial loss.
That said, they do build very nice aircraft in Brazil and in theory, COULD POSSIBLY improve on the F-100's operating numbers, versus the 717. The Boeing does have an OEW almost 16,000 heavier than the original F-100.

Your last sentence mentions it all. The B717-200 has an OEW of 69.380 lbs, the Fokker 100 one of 53.740 lbs. That's a good portion lighter.

By the way, it isn't the idea to built the plane in Brazil. Just components will be built in Brazil. Final assembly is still planned to be done in The Netherlands.

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently onlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15686 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 14):
By the way, it isn't the idea to built the plane in Brazil. Just components will be built in Brazil. Final assembly is still planned to be done in The Netherlands.

Has the site in NL been decided yet? Will it be at Airport Twente?


User currently offlineroberts87 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2011, 987 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15643 times:

Is there really a business case for a this Fokker 100 NG? I mean, the aircraft would compete with the Embraer 190, CRJ900/1000 (and Cseries as well?), all in proven service. Ordering a Fokker 100 NG would be taking a big leap of faith for any airline. And with most European airlines having retired or retiring their existing Fokker fleet, it's not as if there is a commoniality thing. Genuine question: what would be the USP's for the Fokker compared to the existing competition?

User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15520 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 15):
Has the site in NL been decided yet? Will it be at Airport Twente?

No, Twente is not in the race. This airport will remain closed. As far as I know, Lelystad is the favorite location.

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently onlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4699 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15483 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 17):
As far as I know, Lelystad is the favorite location.

I think there will be a big building unoccupied soon....   



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15377 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 18):
I think there will be a big building unoccupied soon....

Yes, Rekkof can probably get a good deal...   Now what to do with all that old junk inside those buildings...   

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 778 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 14970 times:

Quoting md11sdf (Reply 13):
The Boeing 717 performs the same mission as the original F-100. Yet, there is very little demand for it around the world.

Well, it is obvious that Boeing did not support the 717 the way they should (from a market perspective). The fact that at a certain point the orderbook did not receive additional orders is no testament per se for lack of sufficient demand.
(If you have the B 736 in production you don´t want to have another frame competing in house ...)

Quoting md11sdf (Reply 13):
Improved engines, leading edge slats and LESS underfloor cargo capacity than the MD-95 (B-717-200) gets you what?

Less fuel burn in this case. A roughly 8000lb lighter airframe is a significant advantage !
And less underfloor cargo capacity is not such a great disadvantage as this type of a/c is rather used for passenger feeder services than the transport of cargo.
And the F100 cargo hold is sufficient for the passengers luggage.



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 14879 times:

So after all those years the F100 supplier base is still alive? think someone is collecting investor money on a pipe dream here.

User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14608 times:

Always surprises me the most negative people about new planes or airlines are aviation enthusiasts. Before anything is given a try its written off as a no go because they are so well clued in on Aviation from reading ANET. Huge money and alot of planning go into these kinds of things by people far more in the know then most of us, The benefits of the new Fokker were mentioned above by a few people but just completely ignored in favour of assumptions. Even if they flop and only build 100 planes we will have 100 different aircraft in the sky to look at other then the A320 or B737.

Easyjet would never work, Jetblue would never work.. Nobody will buy the A380 its to big.. Emirates is to big to succeed blah blah blah


User currently offlineoykie From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13865 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 7):
However, the CRJ-1000 is lighter than Fokker 100 by about 3,000 lbs.

This is true, but with a newer generation engine this weight difference will probably be outweighted by a more efficient engine. Of course BBD could re-engine the CRJ, but as of now the F100NG seems to have the optimum platform.

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 22):
Always surprises me the most negative people about new planes or airlines are aviation enthusiasts.

   There are a lot of people here that lacks magic and dreaming. From an enthusiast point of view we should welcome any new ideas. Of course we also have some very good engineers here that keeps things in perspective, but still some seems to get RR on here for simply being negative about a certain topic.

On to the topic, my favorite airplane is the DC-9, and especially the -21. It did not enjoy good sales, or a low cost base. But a captain once showed me why it was called the "Sports nine" among pilots. It was my best ride and Take-off ever. So I welcome a new try with rear mounted engines and a t-tail, and the F100 looks like a European DC-9 and I like it. It has nothing to do with sciense ot economic of scale. It has about really loving airplanes. Rekkof or NGaircraft has now tilted the stubwing for the engines 15 degrees making it look a bit like the CRJ engine placement on the fuselage.

http://rekkof.nl/newengines.html



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13131 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 11):
The F100's that I see for Avianca, are they ex TAM?

Nop, all are ex-AA. AV has been replacing them with ex-MX 318s, and sending some to Oceanair in Brazil. Last november I saw 10 of the F100s stored a in CLO.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
25 Post contains links aviopic : I don't understand the fuss around here, told you guys months ago about the parts factory in Brazil and for years that the F100ng will see the light o
26 AustrianZRH : So, who will be the first customer for the F100NG? I guess OS will show some interest once the plane is offered, given there sizeable aging fleet of F
27 ptrjong : That's what I'm thinking. I hope that I'll be proven wrong, since through Dutch taxes I'm one of the investors.
28 Hooverman : So when do you think we will see this NG flying?
29 roberts87 : I didn't mean to be negative per se, but to ask a honest question how Rekkof wants to differentaite themsevelves from the proven competition. Can anyo
30 Rheinbote : Prepare to be bored with questions about technical feasibility and economical viability for the rest of your professional life. Spare parts, yes. But
31 LAXDESI : From your link, it seems that F100NG will be nearly 6,500 lbs. heavier than CRJ-1000. The link also suggests 16% lower fuel burn which is nice given
32 petertenthije : From what I remember all tooling was preserved except for the tools required to build the wings. After Fokker went bankrupt Bombardier (the owner of
33 MHG : ... and since the wings on the NG are the only major part that´s a completely new design that should not really be of an issue.
34 N62NA : Me too - I personally want to see as many different kinds of planes and as many different airlines as possible. And this new version of the F100 soun
35 CrimsonNL : I would be proud to fly on another Dutch airplane, but I am very very skeptic about this one.. FOKKER was an aviation pioneer, REKKOF still have to pr
36 lollomz : Is there a true order for this plane???
37 aviopic : The proto around the end of 2012. Engineering(NL - Romania), Customer support(NL - USA - Singapore), aircraft mx(NL - Singapore), Component mx(NL - U
38 DIJKKIJK : I think (and have always thought) that the F100 has great potential as a business jet. Install an extra fuel tank to give the airplane inercontinental
39 Post contains links and images aviopic : This is not about a BBJ, although I am sure if someone asks for it........... The modification is available anyway(see below). Several a/c are alread
40 BrouAviation : I'm not sure, but may be the crappy aircon-system on the so-called Dutch Oven made the Fokker jets less appealing for private and luxurious transport
41 Rheinbote : F70/F100 is slow and cannot climb above controlled airspace. Big stiff wing doesn't provide good ride comfort. Cockpit and FMS is 20th Century. BBJ o
42 francoflier : As much as I'd love to see brand new F-100s grazing the skies, I can't hide my skepticism... There already are very efficient competitors to the F-100
43 Hooverman : That is really soon.I hope it works. Fokker standing up from it's grave would be a real stunt!
44 JQflightie : Well the aircraft must still be good, there are still many operators in Australia with F100's and are trying to gain more, i know QF have just sourced
45 JoeCanuck : I don't know where this fanasic fuel burn in comparison to the CRJ-1000, or anything else, is going to come from. The cF-38 is still a very efficient
46 Burkhard : While I really wish the Fokker 100 NG family to take off and succeed, since I remeber many good flights on Fokker 28. Fokker 70 and Fokker 100, and pr
47 Post contains links and images aviopic : Yup.......... and the Aussies love crappy aircons ! The Chinees are seeking help............... from Fokker. http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...s
48 francoflier : Interesting irony. Still, the Chinese have the dough to subcontract from high tech companies like Fokker Technologies in Europe or elsewhere. For all
49 BrouAviation : Why the sarcasm? You seem to be very enthousiastic about Fokker and it's products, but that the Fokker has an inferior airconditioning system is wide
50 sf260 : From rekkof-website, the F100NG will seat 122. The CRJ1000 seats only 104 in its highest density config. The E195 seats also 122, but its OEW is some
51 JoeCanuck : While the RR725 is slightly more advanced than the CF34, it's nowhere near as advanced as the GTF or LeapX. While bypass doesn't tell the whole story
52 Post contains links and images aviopic : Because you ideas are overtaken by time. My enthusiasm goes to a cold beer, Fokker is my employer. If you buy your self a RR silvercloud just to find
53 Post contains images francoflier : I mean that if Rekkof only got a 20 Million Euros operating credit so far, Fokker's future isn't exactly in their hand... I was just pointing that th
54 lightsaber : Congrats to Rekkof for getting this factory going. I'll admit to wondering how they will compete in a crowded market... But in my humble opinion, the
55 Post contains links queb : With max payload (12 tonnes), there room for 6.5 tonnes. With 100 passengers (102 kg per pax), there is room for 8.5 tonnes. In addition, the CRJ1000
56 SSTeve : Hard to find them when there is so much competition, but from a passenger standpoint, compared to a CRJ, the F-100 felt much more like a full-sized p
57 JoeCanuck : The -10 is more efficient than the rest, and the NG will be more efficient yet. Will the RR725 be much better with an even lower bypass ratio than th
58 Post contains images lightsaber : Unless there is a new technology 'lurking,' (e.g., CMC high turbine blades), I would bet on the CF-34. But I wouldn't bet against the GTF. Do you mea
59 Post contains images Starglider : Starglider
60 JoeCanuck : I was comparing the CF-34 to the RR725. The -34 has a higher bypass ratio and has been continuously improved all the way to the -10 version, (the mos
61 BrouAviation : I fail to see why. It was just a guess, I said so from the beginning, but an airconditioning system seemed to me a rather large factor in the overal
62 Post contains images PC12Fan : Had to chuckle at that one. Yes, but is this comparison towards the F-100 or the F-100NG?
63 Post contains images lightsaber : The Passport has potential. A 54" BLISK fan is impressive. (IMHO, Williams was wise to adopt BLISK fans early.) The 'big change' for the Passport is
64 queb : F-100 (non NG) of course. Just saying that if Reffok wants to have a significant part of the market, they need more than a newer engine and winglets,
65 Post contains images lightsaber : And the cycle continues. I'm amazed how ultra competitive the 70 to 100 seat market is going to be... There is also some other wing modifications. Th
66 Post contains links and images aviopic : 6.5 ton minus alternate and reserve is still quite a dent in range. I would have said the same if I was Brit Air, KL did as well after they got the E
67 Post contains images lightsaber : Oh my, the Do-17 lives on! (Sorry, I'm a history nut...) 1.1 hour missions have an optimal bypass ratio of ~5 to 6 with a conventional dual spool or
68 Post contains links CPHFF : In my humble opinion, the whole concept seems very similar to the ARJ21. Older design, but a new wing, upgraded engines and avionics. Even though the
69 BrouAviation : I have of course no problem with accepting that the airconditioning system is not the dealbreaker for converting Fokker jets for private use, and I ho
70 SSTeve : Sure looks like it. Didn't realize the DC-9 was living on in China. Ought to call it Salguod.
71 dfwrevolution : Apparently the longer the 717 is out of production, the more the myth grows. This is a bunch of nonsense.
72 queb : ARJ-900 development has been cancelled and replaced by the C919. Due to a lots of problems during flight testing (the program has been launch 9 years
73 alangirvan : Question may be - who exactly are the potential customers? There is a growing fleet of Fokker 100s in Australia, but this can be deceptive. The Fokker
74 lightsaber : The Allergiant model that requires purchasing aircraft at very low residual value *and* having significant downtime that over-rides the high fuel bur
75 lollomz : It seems a little bit strange to me that none spoke about the Superjet in this thread. What do you think about this plane? Personally I think it Will
76 alangirvan : Except the Australian Fokker 100s remain the property of Fokker Aircraft Services. The Australian operators, like Skywest say that their current Fokk
77 JoeCanuck : Actually, I did list it among the crowd a while back. The Superjet has a lot of potential but whether or not that potential will be realised outside
78 parapente : In the opening article they refer to the use of a "breakthrough" engine.There is IMHO only one "breakthrough" engine and that is the GTF.At a 120 - to
79 PC12Fan : Fokker was toying with the idea of an F130 as well. Curious to see if that will pan out if the NG program gets the go.
80 Post contains images lightsaber : That is true. I'm also hearing rumors of RR and a new high turbine material. We'll have to see... Lightsaber
81 MEA-707 : I think they first need to come up with a different name then Rekkof. It's something we did as teenagers to write our names in reverse. I am aware the
82 Post contains links and images LifelinerOne : Done! Meet NG Aircraft. http://www.ngaircraft.com/ Cheers!
83 Post contains images aviopic : I've to admit thinking the US F100's would have been used in a different way than the EU ones. Looking back at the data however this seems hardly the
84 lightsaber : Is that the official corporation name? Much more pleasant than Rekkof which could be turned into some bad names. Which is pretty long for this size o
85 aviopic : Both names are official. Rekkof is used for the parts factory in Brazil which is not limited to parts for Fokker a/c but will produce parts for the w
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