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Do Airbuses Have Less Powerful Takeoff?  
User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Just wanna know what you guys think about it especially for those who travel often and have been on many diff. types of acfts. I just have a feelings that airbuses have less powerful takeoff and less steep climb rate. Any experience out there?

let's share it // r panda  Wink/being sarcastic

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12436 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

It depends on which aircraft you are talking about; twin engined widebody aircraft have very powerful t/offs, since the aircraft need to be prepared for an engine failure at V2, the most critical part of the climbout. Therefore you're unlikely to notice much of a difference between the 777 and A330; of course, a lighter A330 using a long runway will not find the same need for urgency as a heavy 777 taking off from a short runway (i.e. a DL 777 taking off from DUB n/s to ATL).

The A340, being a four engined aircraft, doesn't need to have that same reserve, in that if one engine fails, it still has 3 more. It is, by common consent, a fairly poor climber, but hell it's gorgeous, so I'll forgive it anything. (see the SAS/CAL/LAN/CX A340 pictures if you don't agree!)

Now, where you'll really notice a difference is between the 757 and A321. Heathrow is a good example. (I'm being rather tongue-in-cheek here, so don't be offended!) The RR powered BA 757s don't seem to understand that the runway is 2 miles long and they don't have to take off like a bat out of hell, but bless their little APUs, they're up in about 10-15 seconds on a good day! Then come the A321s, Aer Lingus, BMI, Swissair etc; sees 12,000' runway - why sweat it - nice derate and off we go! Still, I know which one I'd rather jumpseat in!

That, I hope, explains things to some extent!


User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1576 times:

haha Kai tak i like the "bat out of hell" regaurding the 757 taking off, but the biggest thing is because the engines are VERY powerfull.. its way over powered if you ask me... correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the 757 RR have the same engines as the 767 RR?


Go big or go home
User currently offlineMarrty From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1540 times:

An Airbus aircraft may seem less powerful to a passenger on takeoff and climb if the pilot has selected the "FLEX" thrust setting. The Flex setting applies reduced thrust during the takeoff which reduces fuel consumption. A Flex thrust departure takes into consideration the runway length, aircraft weight, etc. Flex thrust also reduces wear on the engines.

You will feel the real power if the pilot selects the higher "TOGA" thrust setting, which is less fuel efficient.


User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Perhaps if someone has the time, it would be interesting to see a thrust vs weght ratio for various aircraft. That may explain the reason for the difference in acceleration, which gives the sensation of power.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Delta-Flyer: Perhaps if someone has the time, it would be interesting to see a thrust vs weght ratio for various aircraft.

Indeed. Volunteers, anyone?  Smile

Marrty: An Airbus aircraft may seem less powerful to a passenger on takeoff and climb if the pilot has selected the "FLEX" thrust setting.

Seems like a sensible thing to do. (Not as much fun, though. Wink/being sarcastic)


User currently offlineSpectre242 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1469 times:

I had always been under the impression (indeed I have read a few references to this in books) that Airbuses (particulary the A320 family) were capible of very good takeoff performance in comparison to other similar aircraft.
I was at Belfast City Airport on a tour and guy taking me around said that they could take an A321 no problem, but as for the 757 - well it could land, but take off was a different story.


User currently offlineMegatop From Denmark, joined May 1999, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1450 times:

I agree that the B757 has a heigh power/weight ration, but if you look at ect. A300-600R, it has the same ration. I can tell you, that the takeoff in the A300-600R is very powerfull, and the climb is very steep.

A have flown:

A300-B4, A300-600, A310-200, A310-300, A330-300, A340-300, B720B, B727-200, B737-200 -300 -400 -500 -700, B747-200 -300 -400, B757-200, B767-200 -300, B777-200, L-1011, DC-10-30 -40, DC-9, MD-80, F70, Bae146, Caravelle, and Concorde.

The is not that big different in the takeoff power on the different types (except Concorde), as it also has to do with fuelload, wind, temperature ect ect.

So, Airbuses has NOT less powerfull takeoff.


Megatop


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Airbuses are not in any way "less" powerful than other aircraft, atleast not the narrowbodies. The A32X family has the "Flex" thrust setting which allows for lower thrust settings for longer rwy's.

As far as the A340 is concerned, it was built to serve specific routes (ie. medium gauge,ultra long range routes) which it does more efficiently than any competing airliners. The Fuel Burn per Seat is the LOWEST ever, so it is among the most economical aircraft out there. I heard from sources with a local carrier that they could make operational profits even with a 55% load if they used a A340. so it must be pretty economical.

The trade off made is performance wrt takeoff and climb. I hear it takes 20 minutes to reach cruise than say the A330 or the B777, and on a long route like say DEL-ORD ns, it can take an hour more than a 744 (if a 744 could fly that far that is!). But the economics of the operation is what makes the A340 a winner.

If a carrier is looking for pure economics then the A340 wins out hands down. But it does take a beating on the climb performance.

I hear that there are some airports like DEL from where the A340 cannot operate full-load during summers even though it has 11000 feet runway!


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3012 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1430 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

let me let you in on a little secret....

those BA 757s doing the rocket impressions at LHR are no where near their MTOW

now, head on over the LGW and watch an Air Transat 757 takeoff for Canada... you see what a near MTOW takeoff of a 757 looks like... it uses ALOT of runway.

As for the A320 series.... just watch an A319 sometime... POCKET ROCKET!

The a321 is less sprightly for sure, but still, it performs very well.
The a340 is a slow climber.... but then again it doesnt need a high rate fo climb, its going a long way. (yes i know it annoys ATC but still). A330s are fairly sprightly, somewhere between a 767 and a 747.... A310s and A300s are as sprightly as DC-10s and 767s....

Oh and BAs 757s use RB.211-535E4s
BAs 767-300ERs use RB.211-524H

the -524H is a much more powerful powerplant.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

What do u mean by a steep climb rate?
Youve taken 2 different things and put them together when infact, they dont go together.



User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

I Dont Think So! not only did I see two spectacular high speed and steep take offs, one a Gulf Air A340 and the other an Alitalia A300 at LondonHR in 1995, that very day I got to experience the same on an Emirates A300 which me and my family were travelling on, the experience was fantastic, never had such a take off ever before Smile


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1354 times:

Rolls 757 and 767 engines are not the same.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineDatamana340 From South Korea, joined Dec 2000, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

A330 is overpowered like 777. Don't u agree?

...But I couldn't feel that accelation than 340, even though that 330 was of KE!!!


User currently offline757man From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Have any of you people been on a 737-500? Mine was nowhere near MTOW, but I've never been on anything as good since! It was like being strapped to a rocket, and the engines made this really distinctive noise before full throttle was applied.

RE the BA Boeing 757 fleet. Most of the oldies (G-BIK-/G-BMR-) are powered by less powerful RB211-535C's, whilst most newer models use the more powerful RB211-535E4. However, both powerplants are very good performance wise, and I've seen plenty lift off from Heathrow pushing 15-20 degree climbouts.

My local airport is Birmingham, England (BHX/EGBB). We get loads of 757's here, as well as the A320 family. I flew on a 757 from BHX to Orlando via Bangor, Maine a few years ago and she was a fully loaded E4 powered bird. Despite operating near MTOW from a 2600m runway, this aircraft still had a very powerful take off role and rotated with plenty of runway to spare. At the other end of the spectrum, I see charter configured A321's trundle off the same runway on shorter intra-European routes and by the time they have lifted off the ground, they don't have much runway to spare. Now the A319....Well that is a different story.

I'm not saying airliner A performs better than airliner B, but these are just things I've noticed, that's all.


User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

I do think 777 is over-powered especially those powered by GE90. Each engine is more than 100 000lbs which adds up to more than 200 000lbs for two engines. A bigger and heavier 744 are only operated by 4 X 50 000 engines, which is the almost the same as 777 in terms of thrust. Keep in mind that 777 (not 773) is lighter and a bit smaller.

As for 737-500, I do believe that it is a rocket as someone mentioned in the above. -500 has the shortest fuselage out of the 737 family.

and I expect A332 and A318 are powerful too, but I am amazed to hear that A300-600R is a powerful acft too.

my two cents, enlight me if I am wrong
r panda


User currently offlineBHopsde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

We don't have 767s at LH, but when I've been on them, at start to roll, I always have been literally jerked back in my seat!

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