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KLM Keeps Miami  
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12254 times:

Looks like KLM is not ending service to MIA, rather just suspending the MIAAMS route for the summer months.

Miami service will resume October 28 2012. The planned frequency increase to 5 weekly will happen, but the equipment now shows the MD11 continues rather than A330 service.

Extremely slight retiming. Schedule as loaded in GDS:

KL 627 AMS 1520-1935 MIA xTuSa M11
KL 628 MIA 2135-1210 AMS xTuSa M11

[Edited 2011-12-28 00:58:39]


a.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11749 times:

Maybe it would be better to change the title to the topic into: KLM to change Miami into winter seasonal service....

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11533 times:

Well, considering the old thread was about KLM axing MIA, I think the thread title is appropriate.

UAL


User currently offlinecaptainmeeerkat From Russia, joined Aug 2010, 388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11270 times:

KLM - Keep, Leave, Maybe...


my luggage is better travelled than me!
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11062 times:

This makes sense to me as a Winter seasonal route. I'm sure there is much more demand to Miami from Northern Europe in the Winter...


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11008 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter):
Looks like KLM is not ending service to MIA, rather just suspending the MIAAMS route for the summer months.

This is all but a done deal. The future of the Dallas and Miami routes at KLM hangs very much in the balance and at this point I believe the chance that both routes will be eliminated is definitely greater than the chance that they will stay. And that is even before a round of network cuts will likely become inevitable given the expected financial performance of the combined AF-KL.


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1691 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9439 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
This is all but a done deal. The future of the Dallas and Miami routes at KLM hangs very much in the balance and at this point I believe the chance that both routes will be eliminated is definitely greater than the chance that they will stay. And that is even before a round of network cuts will likely become inevitable given the expected financial performance of the combined AF-KL.

  

Since the reservations-system has not been updated as yet (per 28oct12), it looks like KLM will re-start to MIA, however, in the internal aircraft/crew system, KL0627/8 does not show there anymore...



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9820 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7314 times:

With the 2011 losses this year and more losses expected for 2012 by the AF/KL Group it wouldn't surprise me MIA will be axed by KL anyway. I can see the weaker routes being stopped entirely in an attempt to reduce losses. It all depends on the economic environment projected for next year, fuel prices, demand etc. Remember we are still a year away from the next winter season. Any schedule changes can still be made now or later.

A388


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4175 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7261 times:

The AFKL losses I think are being overplayed. It is AF who need to address their cost base, not KL.

If anything, KL provides the example that the remainder of the group needs to follow!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

Quoting MH017 (Reply 7):
Since the reservations-system has not been updated as yet (per 28oct12), it looks like KLM will re-start to MIA, however, in the internal aircraft/crew system, KL0627/8 does not show there anymore...

It was added back Monday. It had been fully removed last week, including past 28 October. KLM entered its initial W12/13 schedule this Monday, and MIA is in it. It has also switched to an MD11 and has new times, which shows that it's not just something leftover.

I don't think it's a certainty MIA will resume given the economic climate, but all signs are its a summer suspension as of now. As the newest U.S. destination, and therefore the less mature and established, it's an obvious candidate to cut when capacity cuts are needed. On the otherhand, with about one out of every nine Europeans flying to the United States having MIA as their final destination, it's a pretty gaping hole not to serve from such a huge European hub operation.

[Edited 2011-12-28 12:20:23]


a.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9820 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6776 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
On the otherhand, with about one out of every nine Europeans flying to the United States having MIA as their final destination, it's a pretty gaping hole not to serve from such a huge European hub operation.

That gaping hole shouldn't be that big as there are already plenty of ways through other (major) European hubs to get to MIA. KL might even be too late to serve this market now.

A388


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1691 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6545 times:

Mah4546,

If it does not show up in the aircraft-planning and crew system for Winter 2012-13, how can you operate these flights ?

What is your source it was re-instated last monday (26dec/boxingday) ?



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlinerjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

Good news! This is good, i love seeing KLM at MIA. Are they changing planes at all? I believe they do their AMS-MIA with the A332.


Greetings from Dulles!
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6297 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MH017 (Reply 11):
If it does not show up in the aircraft-planning and crew system for Winter 2012-13, how can you operate these flights ?

What is your source it was re-instated last monday (26dec/boxingday) ?

It's bookable in various GDS right now (including on klm.com) - inventory is available and not zeroed out. As MAH said, it was previously completely removed (even for winter 2012-13).

Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 12):
Are they changing planes at all? I believe they do their AMS-MIA with the A332.

No, MD11.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6098 times:

Did KLM publish a press release saying they'd drop the route?

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
No, MD11.

MD-11?! Well, I better book a flight then!



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
It was added back Monday. It had been fully removed last week, including past 28 October. KLM entered its initial W12/13 schedule this Monday, and MIA is in it. It has also switched to an MD11 and has new times, which shows that it's not just something leftover.

What you are seeing in the GDS right now are the remnants of KLM's long term planning for the route. AMS MIA was originally planned to go 5 weekly during the summer together with an aircraft change to A332 and then revert to MD11 for the winter with the same reinforced frequency. As for now, the airline does not plan to reinstate nonstop MIA flights for the winter and the loadings in the GDS are mere placeholders that will be subject to plenty of change.

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
It's bookable in various GDS right now (including on klm.com) - inventory is available and not zeroed out.

So is the nonstop AMS MNL for next summer, and that is a mere 3 months away, while everyone at KLM is aware of the fact that that nonstop flight will not be operated either.


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1691 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
It was added back Monday. It had been fully removed last week, including past 28 October. KLM entered its initial W12/13 schedule this Monday, and MIA is in it. It has also switched to an MD11 and has new times, which shows that it's not just something leftover.

What you are seeing in the GDS right now are the remnants of KLM's long term planning for the route. AMS MIA was originally planned to go 5 weekly during the summer together with an aircraft change to A332 and then revert to MD11 for the winter with the same reinforced frequency. As for now, the airline does not plan to reinstate nonstop MIA flights for the winter and the loadings in the GDS are mere placeholders that will be subject to plenty of change.

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
It's bookable in various GDS right now (including on klm.com) - inventory is available and not zeroed out.

So is the nonstop AMS MNL for next summer, and that is a mere 3 months away, while everyone at KLM is aware of the fact that that nonstop flight will not be operated either.

  

In other words, guys & gals: do NOT trust the GDS's for long-term schedules, availability and aircraft-types !!!



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently onlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2392 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3415 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

@HB-IWC:

Have you heard about AF's possible withdrawal in FNA & ROB ?

Why is LAD taking so long to appear on KL's map ? Wasn't the slot secured ?

Thx, ...



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineFerminios From Canada, joined Apr 2011, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Good for MIA if it continues, I was a bit surprised to see this thread though. I think we will know more as the season nears. KLM had confirmed that they would 'cut' MIA, to me that's an unlikely word to use if you're only discontinuing it for the summer.

LAD is pushed back to the start of the summer season. I was told that it had something to do with the authorities, which is, considering Angola's restrictive environment, a very likely reason.  


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9820 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting MH017 (Reply 16):
In other words, guys & gals: do NOT trust the GDS's for long-term schedules, availability and aircraft-types !!!

This is exactly what I mean as well. We are (or should I say were) talking about the schedule for the winter season of next year which still is a year away from now!!! Anything can still happen over that timeframe. It is strange that KL says that MIA will be cut while at the same time the route to be supposedly reinstated again in the winter. Very strange but let's see what will happen eventually...

A388


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 3):
KLM - Keep, Leave, Maybe...

Thank you for such wonderful sense of humour. I laughed quite a bit with this !


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 12):
Good news! This is good, i love seeing KLM at MIA. Are they changing planes at all? I believe they do their AMS-MIA with the A332.

Its been the MD-11, rather see it anyway since its pretty much the only pax MD-11 that flies into MIA other than a World charter here or there - all the other MD-11s are freighters. MIA sees its share of A330s - Air Berlin, Alitalia, Avianca, Lufthansa, Swiss, Corsair to name a few


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