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KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?  
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13588 times:

Supposedly a KLM 744 landing at JFK last night scraped an engine on touchdown, cancelling the outbound flight. It was incredibly windy and rainy here in the NYC area last night (and still is today), but does anyone have any photos or additional details?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13511 times:

Quoting catiii (Thread starter):
cancelling the outbound flight.

The flight was not cancelled. Aircraft involved was PH-BFT, now running 16,5 hours late on her way back to AMS.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13314 times:

When I left JFK last night, I was on the Belt Parkway heading back east to go home and planes were coming in on 22L. I could not believe the crab angles they were coming in with....it was like they were lined up for a completely different airport LOL! I am not surprised that there was a landing incident last night. There were diversions and cancellations because of the weather last night as well   

[Edited 2011-12-28 14:33:10]


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineIdlewild From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11595 times:
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Did the engine scrape the runway or an object? Aren't the engines mounted in such a way that no matter what the angle of the aircraft it's almost impossible for an engine to scrape the runway (but certainly not high stationary object like fences, etc.)? Adding to that, the aircraft was in landing configuration and the wing flex was up. Maybe a wing scraped the runway when a gust of wind might have forced the A/C into a bank? Again, I don't mean to sound ignorant, I just don't see how an engine can scrape a runway, unless of course the gear hasn't come down.

User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11418 times:

Quoting Idlewild (Reply 3):
ren't the engines mounted in such a way that no matter what the angle of the aircraft it's almost impossible for an engine to scrape the runway (but certainly not high stationary object like fences, etc.)?

look up Kai Tak engine strike on google. It is definitely possible.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11306 times:

Quoting Idlewild (Reply 3):
Did the engine scrape the runway or an object? Aren't the engines mounted in such a way that no matter what the angle of the aircraft it's almost impossible for an engine to scrape the runway (but certainly not high stationary object like fences, etc.)? Adding to that, the aircraft was in landing configuration and the wing flex was up. Maybe a wing scraped the runway when a gust of wind might have forced the A/C into a bank? Again, I don't mean to sound ignorant, I just don't see how an engine can scrape a runway, unless of course the gear hasn't come down.

There's your answer:



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Photo © Colin Parker - The HongKong Spotters




So yes, an engine can scrape the runway but if that happens, it is a very bad landing!!! Crosswinds can also influence a landing extremely even though that chance to my knowledge is small unless it happens seconds before touchdown.

And for the record if an aircraft with its four engines mounted below the wing, if the wing scrapes the runway chances are that the outer engine on that wing has scraped the runway before the wing has!!!

A388


User currently offlineArcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10836 times:
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On a crosswind landing, you lower the upwind wing and keep the plane pointed down
the runway with the rudder.
On 4 engine jets you have to be careful of the outboard engine.
This is from the owner of a Cherokee but the principle is the same.


User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10207 times:

Not quite the same on a 747 as a cherokee. This is how you're supposed to do it on a 747...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW0Mv15t2Pg



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8452 times:

My partner and I flew into EWR the evening of the 27th on Continental. We circled for perhaps 40 minutes in the most turbulent weather I've experienced in a long while. We were blown about all the way to the runway. Definitely an E ticket ride! I can see how an aircraft might have had a strike incident that evening!

User currently offlinejcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8236 times:

I was supposed to fly into JFK on the evening of the 27th, but the flight was canceled at the last moment, so I hopped on a Shuttle flight to LGA instead. It was probably the most violent landing I can remember, I've been on more turbulent flights in general, but this had to be the worst landing. I didn't think I was nervous during the landing until I got up from my seat at the gate and my legs were shaky.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19419 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting Archer (Reply 6):
On a crosswind landing, you lower the upwind wing and keep the plane pointed down
the runway with the rudder.
Quoting loggat (Reply 7):

Not quite the same on a 747 as a cherokee. This is how you're supposed to do it on a 747...

In the video, the pilot kept the upwind wing lowered and you can see the rudder deflection. So how is it not the same?


User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Notice that all main wheels touch at the same time. If anything, the downwind wheels actually touch first. When you do a sideslip landing like on a cherokee, the upwind main wheel will touch first, then the downwind main, then the nose. This BA 747 lands in a crab with perfect timing to kick the rudder out and point the nose down the centerline of the runway. There is no wing low landing in that video.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRfioQRCunA

One of my favourite 747 crosswind videos.   



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
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