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Washington National Airport Before Dulles.  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 534 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

I realize Dulles International Airport was built because National was unable to extend runways for Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8 use. Before Dulles was built did National Airport have flights to Europe and non stop flights to the west coast to such cities as LAX and SFO. National Airport is to Washington DC sort of what LaGuardia is to New York City. National saw no jets until the Boeing 727 and 737 came around. Ohare in Chacago was built because Midway ran out of expansion room to accomodate the first jets.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Before Dulles was built did National Airport have flights to Europe and non stop flights to the west coast to such cities as LAX and SFO.

4-engine jets have never been permitted at DCA. The only longhaul nonstops were in the propeller era to the west coast. Until IAD opened in 1962, longhaul jets used BWI (code then BAL), and even for several years after IAD opened it was very unpopular and many passengers to LAX/SFO etc still preferred BAL.

DCA never had any propeller nonstops to Europe as far as I recall. Most bilaterals in those days didn't even permiit nonstop service to/from Washington.

One of the only 4-engine jets that used DCA was Pan Am's first 707 which had it's official christening by U.S. First Lady Mamie Eisenhower at DCA on October 17, 1958, 9 days before the inaugural scheduled 707 service. It was then ferried to BAL where a group of invited guests and the media etc. boarded for a pre-inaugural trip to BRU.

Photo of that DCA christening ceremony. Pan Am founder and CEO Juan Trippe, left, and First Lady Mamie Eisenhower, right.

http://www.aircargonews.com/FT11/B707PanAmlaunch.jpg


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5104 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
4-engine jets have never been permitted at DCA.

I know what you mean, but just to nitpick ... here are a couple of small exceptions to that ...   

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Photo © Bob Holland
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Photo © Tim Samples




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User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6835 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

In the 1950s DCA had prop nonstops to SFO, LAX and DEN, along with DAL and HOU. The Electra DAL nonstop lasted for a few months after the perimeter rule started, so presumably the perimeter rule only applied to jets.

DCA never had nonstops to Europe, but far as we can tell from the timetables it did have direct Constellations in 1946-47.


User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2640 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4587 times:
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Does anyone know which was the first European airline to link Washington DC with Europe?

User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

this tells me DCA has a rich history....


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User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6835 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4048 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):
first European airline to link Washington DC with Europe?

BOAC started Baltimore in 1961 and shifted to IAD in 1963. Far as I can see no European airline had a nonstop out of Washington until the early 1970s-- maybe BA, or maybe Aeroflot to Paris.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I realize Dulles International Airport was built because National was unable to extend runways for Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8 use. Before Dulles was built did National Airport have flights to Europe and non stop flights to the west coast to such cities as LAX and SFO. National Airport is to Washington DC sort of what LaGuardia is to New York City. National saw no jets until the Boeing 727 and 737 came around. Ohare in Chacago was built because Midway ran out of expansion room to accomodate the first jets.

Jets were prohibited from DCA primarily because of noise. The primary runway at DCA was about 7500' long, over 2,000 feet longer than the runways at LGA at the time. There were weight issues at LGA that DCA did not have to deal with. For example, the airlines didn't schedule DC-7's in and out of LGA until late in their era of service, but DC-7's were a regular visitor to DCA. UA flew DC-7's nonstop from DCA to the West Coast until 1959 or early 1960 when the jets from BAL took over the nonstop routes. NW flew B-377's into DCA as well, but those aircraft could not operate out of LGA.

As far as runway length, the runways were not long enough for nonstop flights to the West coast, with 707's or DC-8's, but they were long enough for flights with those aircraft, and especially the "higher performance" 720's and DC-8's. MKC, for example, had 707 service beginning in 1959 with Continental and then TWA, and was served by 720's from Braniff, Continental, and United, and had runways that were shorter than DCA's with more obstructions on the approaches as well.

The fact that it took over two years after the introduction of the 727 to get DCA to lift it's jet prohibition is illustrative of the fact that the issue was noise, not runway length.


User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
BOAC started Baltimore in 1961 and shifted to IAD in 1963. Far as I can see no European airline had a nonstop out of Washington until the early 1970s-- maybe BA, or maybe Aeroflot to Paris.

Fascinating factoid! I know that when BOAC initially served IAD, it did so via PHL on VC-10s. I was doing some research and was looking at old Washington newspapers and found advertisements (I think early 1970s) where BOAC announced they were eliminating the stop in PHL and offering nonstop service to IAD (also on VC-10s).



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Where did Pan Am operate out of before Dulles Airport was built? There were no flights to Europe from DCA?

User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 809 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
4-engine jets have never been permitted at DCA.

I'm not sure that is accurate. I am unaware of an explicit regulation that prohibits them but am happy to be enlightened.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6835 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

Quoting doulasc (Reply 9):
There were no flights to Europe from DCA?

Direct flights in the 1940s, but never nonstop.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

Quoting doulasc (Reply 9):
Where did Pan Am operate out of before Dulles Airport was built? There were no flights to Europe from DCA?

In the late 1940s Pan Am operated Constellations to Europe originating at DCA but they stopped at LGA and then either Gander or Shannon (sometimes both).

In the 1950s Pan Am had no service from Washington or Baltimore. By the time IAD opened in 1962 they had a few flights a week from both IAD and BAL to both LHR and ORY but they all stopped at either JFK or BOS. They also had a 707 a few times a week PHL-BAL-SJU.

Pan Am´s first 707 crash was in December 1963 when a 707 operating a northbound SJU-BAL-PHL flight was struck by lightning and exploded on the short BAL-PHL sector.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19631208-0


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

Here is a video of Winston Churchill arriving at DCA on a BOAC Stratocruiser in 1954:

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...er-Anthony-Eden_BOAC-Stratocruiser

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
BOAC started Baltimore in 1961

Forerunner Imperial Airways started Baltimore service with flying boats in 1937 via Bermuda



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