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Eastern's Early DC-8's  
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8304 times:

If this has been covered forgive me for repetition. When I was a kid, I flew on an Eastern Airlines DC-8 from MIA to BWI (then Friendship Airport/BAL)
That 8 had the curtains, familiar Palomar seats with the seat back mounted flourescant reading light. But, I noticed in this picture of what was once an Eastern DC-8 it had the curtains and even what looks like Palomar seats but, there's no seatback mounted reading light. Instead there are incandescant overhead reading lights. However the seat backs featured the tray light, gasper (air vent) and O2 mounted in the seatback. What was the deal? What determined the cabin lights?
And, in this pic I noticed some of the seats were sans tray table light and gasper? Which came first? The Palomar seats with reading seat back lights or the cabin in this pic? What years are we talking about? Any other facts and info appreciated.   


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Photo © Michael Carter
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Photo © James Richard Covington

Left pic is what I'm referring to. The pic to the right (2nd.) shows Palomar seats but overhead reading lights!


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Photo © Roel Bekkering
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Photo © Ellis M. Chernoff

Classic Palomar early DC-8 seats with mounted reading light. This is what I remember from my Eastern flight (July, 1963) and Delta flight (August, 1966)

And I know that UA originally had the lights but replaced them with an audio jack for earphones later on.


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47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4927 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7875 times:

When originally designed, the Palomar seats installed in all DC-8-10s through -40s, and most -50s, had the fluorescent over-the-shoulder reading lights on the front of the seat, and the tray lights and gasper on the seat back. In addition, on the centre of the Economy seats, and the outboard of the First Class seats, oxygen masks and stewardess call buttons were installed.

As aircraft changed, and service requirements changed, so did the seats. As noted, United airlines installed pneumatic audio jacks (holes?) in the place of the over-the-shoulder reading light, with the channel selector there as well. With this conversion, (in the mid 1960s) reading lights were placed in the overhead racks.

I don't know the rationale, but some airlines also eliminated the over-the-shoulder reading lights, and placed a full width headrest in its place. At the same time, reading lights too were placed in the overhead racks.

But in answer to your question, these changes came later. The picture of the Delta DC-8-51 above shows the configuration when the aircraft was built, and as most airlines kept until retirement. The picture of the (Eastern) DC-8-21 shows the changes made later. What is not apparent in those pictures is that reading lights were installed in the overhead racks in the place of the tray lights and the over-the-shoulder reading lights originally installed in the seats.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
I don't know the rationale, but some airlines also eliminated the over-the-shoulder reading lights, and placed a full width headrest in its place. At the same time, reading lights too were placed in the overhead racks.

Long H: Thank you for clearing this up and giving me the "411" on this. The original Palomar seat DC-8's with the lights, curtains were sort of retro kitsch for me considering it was a jet. Remember, I was a kid back in the beckoning of the jet age!. So, flying on Eastern Boeing 720's seemed like really futuristic with the oval ceiling lights, overhead pod PSU's and pull down shades vs. curtains. Back then especially considering the Boeing Jet Interiors were designed in 1955/1956 made them really feel futuristic Jetsons like. In contrast, entering the DC-8 with curtains seemed like taking a step backward (this from a 6 year and then 9 year old kid's perspective. Now, flash forward and I'd give almost anything within reason to get a chance to experience a DC-8 flight with curtains, seat back fluorescent reading light and Palomar seats!

Now in regard to your statement I quoted above. If these changes happened during the 70's the reasons could be quite logical.
1. The 70's was a rude awakening that oil was a finite and increasingly expensive commodity. Therefore any savings in weight i.e. lighter seat frames, materials and electrical savings could go a long way for an airline's bottom line. Our industry was still regulated but, the economy was also tanking meaning it was harder to fill seats with passengers.

Today, we will be removing XM/Sirius satellite radio to save weight and fuel so, I can relate to this. Though not popular. It is what it is.

2. Type of materials used in passenger cabins for toxic fumes and flammability. Not sure if this was when the 8's were still flying revenue passengers. Change to "safer materials" could have caused this change.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 1):
What is not apparent in those pictures is that reading lights were installed in the overhead racks in the place of the tray lights and the over-the-shoulder reading lights originally installed in the seats

Take another close look at that old DC-8 Cabin pic: Look at the seat-backs. It looks as if these seats retained the small tray table light and the gasper. It seems in this cabin no overhead reading lights were installed. If you look at the pic with the yellow/orange seat backs (old Air Jamaica DC-8) there are the overhead lights.

Happy New Year



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User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4927 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the Eastern DC-8-21 pictured above shows it well. All of the seat lights both front and back have been removed and replaced with overhead lights. I am sure if Eastern could have replaced the seats completely, they would have, but on the DC-8s built with Palomar seats, that was structurally impossible.

The outboard seats do not have armrests. The armrest was actually along the outside of the cabin, attached to the cabin, and formed the bottom rail of the curtains. A newer generation seat, like the ones installed in the DC-8-60s would not fit. This picture shows what I mean. It is from the Orbis DC-8, now retired, but the still retains some of the United furnishings:

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Photo © Fran Jurado


From this picture, you can see the lack out outboard armrest, and how a new seat would not fit. You can also see the conversion United did with the headphone attachment in place of the over-the-shoulder light. Notice, that only the front row of this small cabin has overhead gaspers, as the rest of the seats still had them in the seat back.

It's hard to tell what they did in the Air Jam DC-8s, as it appears to be somewhere in the middle.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington


The over-the-shoulder lights are gone, but the tray lights stayed. Why, I can't imagine, but as you note, the overhead racks were then re-equipped with reading lights as well.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 2):
In contrast, entering the DC-8 with curtains seemed like taking a step backward (this from a 6 year and then 9 year old kid's perspective.

I understand what you are saying, but oddly enough, I had the opposite impression. I was about the same age, and flew a lot on Air Canada's DC-8-40/50/60s. I thought the original Palomar interior of the DC-8 to be very elegant. Clean overhead racks, then another "rack" above it, with indirect lighting, with a clean ceiling. I always thought the big dome lights on the B707 reminded me of a cafeteria, and the hanging down PSUs to be an afterthought.

I found the Palomar interior to have a more "substantial" feel to it, with the newer DC-8s and the DC-9s to be "lacking something". Just my opinion of course.

A bit of trivia. Air Canada had three DC-8-53s delivered in the late 1960s. Well after the DC-8-60s started to arrive. These three DC-8s were the only "short" passenger DC-8s ever delivered without a Palomar interior. They had an identical interior to the DC-8-61/63s being delivered to AC at the same time.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7544 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 2):
In contrast, entering the DC-8 with curtains seemed like taking a step backward (this from a 6 year and then 9 year old kid's perspective.

I understand what you are saying, but oddly enough, I had the opposite impression. I was about the same age, and flew a lot on Air Canada's DC-8-40/50/60s. I thought the original Palomar interior of the DC-8 to be very elegant. Clean overhead racks, then another "rack" above it, with indirect lighting, with a clean ceiling. I always thought the big dome lights on the B707 reminded me of a cafeteria, and the hanging down PSUs to be an afterthought.

I also always thought the early DC-8s had a more open and spacious feel than the 707s with the PSUs attached to the overhead racks, although the Boeing overhead racks seemed somewhat larger than those on DC-8s. In any case, I never noticed the one-inch wider 707 fusealge.  


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7277 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
Notice, that only the front row of this small cabin has overhead gaspers, as the rest of the seats still had them in the seat back

Actually, its hard to tell, those gaspers could be special overhead lighting. But otherwise if as you say they were gaspers then that makes sense since there is no seatback to have the lights, gaspers O2 etc.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
The over-the-shoulder lights are gone, but the tray lights stayed. Why, I can't imagine, but as you note, the overhead racks were then re-equipped with reading lights as well.

Maybe AJ decided to install new upolhstry and opted out of the reading light or newer fabrics were not available that were fitted to accomodate the over shoulder reading light.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
I found the Palomar interior to have a more "substantial" feel to it, with the newer DC-8s and the DC-9s to be "lacking something". Just my opinion of course.

Interesting you should mention this. When I first flew on a DC-9 DL DCA to ATL in 1966 I hadn't been on an airliner for three years which to a kid is like an eternity. The flight before this 3 summers earlier was that Eastern DC-8 so the DC-9 cabin really looked cutting edge and new. The DL 9's were at most a year old. My only other DC-9 flight 4 years later on Eastern flight 172 MIA-BWI seemed aged and drab as compared to the 727 cabin on National flight 103 which we took from then BAL to MIA 2 weeks prior to this return flight. Comparing the DC-8 60 series cabin compared to the Palomar Cabin was definitely a letdown. It seemed these DC-8 cabins were stripped down remember the late 60's and early 70's was the era of austere earth tones. By the time I was a teen and saw pictures of DC-8 60 series cabins I then finally hit the realization that the curtained inerior with Palomar seats were something special but too late for me. By then if you flew from BWI to anywhere in Florida on Eastern, National or Delta it was basically Boeing 727's.

For anyone who flew a UA DC-8 with the audio works where the reading light was did the cabins seem dark or dingy?
Anyone remember what year their latest DC-8 flight with Palomar seats? DL had them at least through 1976.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7199 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 5):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
Notice, that only the front row of this small cabin has overhead gaspers, as the rest of the seats still had them in the seat back

Actually, its hard to tell, those gaspers could be special overhead lighting. But otherwise if as you say they were gaspers then that makes sense since there is no seatback to have the lights, gaspers O2 etc.

On the early DC-8s I flew on, the air vents and call buttons for the front rows were built into the bulkheads facing those seats. Forget whether the oxygen masks were also in the bulkheads or overhead.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
A bit of trivia. Air Canada had three DC-8-53s delivered in the late 1960s. Well after the DC-8-60s started to arrive. These three DC-8s were the only "short" passenger DC-8s ever delivered without a Palomar interior. They had an identical interior to the DC-8-61/63s being delivered to AC at the same time.

Photo from early '70s AC brochure featuring first class on a DC-8-61/63 (or one of the three -53s) with the seats that replaced the Palomars and no curtains.

http://www.andersssvensson.se/aeronostalgia/bilder/AirCanada_13c.jpg


This drawing from the same brochure has one error -- the curtains shouldn't be there! Best feature of the DC-8 was the big windows, except for the fact that they didn't align with seat rows in economy class, leaving every 5th row or so without a window (or only a partial window). Had the DC-8 been designed a year or so later I expect Douglas would have matched Boeing´s small windows on 20-inch centers (as they did on the DC-9) rather than the big windows on 40-inch centers as on most propeller types, to ensure that every row, regardless of seat pitch, would have at least one full window (two in F class with the usual 40-inch F class pitch in those days and mostly 34-inch pitch in Y class...sometimes more on U.S domestic carriers that weren't subject to IATA agreements on those issues.)

http://www.andersssvensson.se/aeronostalgia/bilder/AirCanada_12c.jpg

The rest of that brochure and quite a few others of similar late '60s/early '70s vintage in this Swedish site.
http://www.andersssvensson.se/aeronostalgia/index.htm

[Edited 2012-01-01 03:35:51]

User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7077 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 5):
Anyone remember what year their latest DC-8 flight with Palomar seats? DL had them at least through 1976.

It is great to see so many interior-fanatic anetters come out of the woodwork here.

From what I know, DL was flying DC-8-50s with Palomar seats until ~1980. BN got two DC-8-50s from DL (N820E and also 821) and BN operated them with the over-the-shoulder lighting. (I have seen a pic of this: BN's F class was the brown leather, while economy was 100% in the blue cloth of the era).

Speaking of BN, since about 1973 they also had operated a handful of DC-8-50s that I believe had been ex-National. To my knowledge, NA kept the Palomars until unloading them, but prior to being leased or sold to BN, a new interior was installed that featured pod-like overheads similar to Boeing, and open racks. The colors were the red-orange rainbow that BN used in the first half of the 70s. The seats appeared to be almost identical to the ones that were going into the 727s with BN. This really is DC-8 interior culture shock, and unlike any I have ever seen.

Getting back to the original picture of EA, I'm not sure it was explicitly mentioned, but to my knowledge, EA also had inflight stereo jacks installed as UA had done. The earliest pic of a UA DC-8 that I have ever come across, with the rack mounted incandescent lights, was in Feb 1964 when they converted some DC-8-50s to five across premium economy seating, non-Palomar, with stereo jacks. Realistically, this is when US domestic was getting the inflight movie craze, which required the jacks.

[Edited 2012-01-01 06:13:29]

User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6836 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):
It is great to see so many interior-fanatic anetters come out of the woodwork here.

I've been an interior fanatic all my life and I'm 55 yrs young.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):
Speaking of BN, since about 1973 they also had operated a handful of DC-8-50s that I believe had been ex-National. To my knowledge, NA kept the Palomars until unloading them, but prior to being leased or sold to BN, a new interior was installed that featured pod-like overheads similar to Boeing, and open racks. The colors were the red-orange rainbow that BN used in the first half of the 70s. The seats appeared to be almost identical to the ones that were going into the 727s with BN. This really is DC-8 interior culture shock, and unlike any I have ever seen.

From earlier replies on my thread: that would have been a major endeavor. The Palomar / curtained DC-8's window seats did not have an armrest. Instead it was built into the cabin wall and was the bottom holder of the curtains.

As I just mentioned in the 707 cabin thread; I hope someone restores an early DC 8 Eastern, National with star or sun king or DL complete with the OEM cabin...Palomars, curtains, over shoulder reading light.



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User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

The following clip shows a UA stewardess (late 60s as far as I can tell) in the F cabin of a DC-8 (21 or 50 - not super). Views of the overhead lights, stereo jacks, and seatbacks all show up here. It's an advertisement for wool, actually. so there is some further footage in the terminal. "People who have everything, wear wool".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxUtDtRWA-A&feature=related


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4927 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6589 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9):
From earlier replies on my thread: that would have been a major endeavor. The Palomar / curtained DC-8's window seats did not have an armrest. Instead it was built into the cabin wall and was the bottom holder of the curtains.

As far as I know, no Palomar built DC-8 was ever converted to newer-style seats. In addition to the above, the seat track was also on the cabin wall. Instead of two under each seat unit, there was only one ... outboard, with the inboard on the wall. To change that alone would require a change to the structure of the cabin floor and walls as well.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9):
I've been an interior fanatic all my life and I'm 55 yrs young.

I am as well. Probably the best indication of that is the "Aviation Photo Quiz" on this site. If you select the Cabin View version, you will be amazed at how many cabins you can identify. My friends think I am nuts when I show them. (I am)

I have a copy of that Air Canada brochure above, and for decades it has bothered me that artistic licence allowed them to put curtains on a "non-Palomar" DC-8.  



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinetan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1906 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6509 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):
From what I know, DL was flying DC-8-50s with Palomar seats until ~1980

That is what I recall also. I was on a couple of DL DC8-50's from DTW to ATL must have been either 78 or early 79 as best I recall. I do rember noticcing the cloth windowshades upon entering the cabin, then the seats. At that time did not value the uniquness of teh Palomar seat. Too bad!

Happy New Years to all, also!


User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 11):
As far as I know, no Palomar built DC-8 was ever converted to newer-style seats.

It has to be seen to be believed, but yes, the handful of Braniff -50s I referred to did indeed have a cabin design which boldly went where no DC-8 Palomar cabin had gone before. I'm in possession of the pic, I just need to find it in my storage containers and scan it. These were ships N811BN - N814BN which Braniff leased in beginning in August 1973. As far as I know, they were all ex-National. I agree, it does seem an enormous trouble and expense. It's possible that NA had converted the cabin, but I did see one early 70s pic of a NA DC-8-50 and it was Palomar.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4927 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6371 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 13):

It has to be seen to be believed, but yes, the handful of Braniff -50s I referred to did indeed have a cabin design which boldly went where no DC-8 Palomar cabin had gone before.

That is interesting. Yes, I would love to see a picture and I am curious exactly what they did, and how far they went.

I am sure it is possible. To build a seat with no outer armrest and with an unusual anchor arrangement. Move the PSUs to the overhead rack, and re-route the oxygen tubing from the lower cabin to the upper cabin. And all with FAA approval!

I suppose the main reason it was not a common conversion, is that one really has to wonder what is gained in such a costly process so near to the end of the aircraft's useful life.

I do know however, of two Air Canada DC-8-63s that were converted to an all Y configuration for charter and Caribbean flying. They held 227 passengers. The forward First Class lounge and bar were removed, and a closet was placed on the left side, and 6 Y seats were placed on the right side, in line with the two windows. Here's the kicker ... as there was no overhead rack in the lounge, the seats placed there were Palomar seats! With full working lights and oxygen! Unfortunately, I never did get a picture, as it sure looked strange.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6256 times:

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 12):
I do rember noticcing the cloth windowshades upon entering the cabin, then the seats. At that time did not value the uniquness of teh Palomar seat. Too bad!

Did you mean cloth curtains?

Does anyone know if any airline flying the Palomar DC-8's ever reupholster them including new curtains? This would freshen the cabin without going through the Broadway production of a cabin frame alteration? My ADHD self one time in school during a boring class daydreamed about a DL DC-8 with a Palomar cabin updated with red white and blue colors.
Even the curtains got the redo featuring DL widget and Bi-Centenial. This was obviously late 1975 early 1976.



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User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6245 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 15):
Does anyone know if any airline flying the Palomar DC-8's ever reupholster them including new curtains?


I'm sure that as seat covers changed, the curtains were often re-done to match, just as in a home. In their last incarnation, DL's Palomar DC-8s had bright red curtains and red/orange seat covers identical to the ones I showed in the 707 thread.

BTW my maintenance buddies say that red shows dirt more than any other color.


User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6231 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
I do know however, of two Air Canada DC-8-63s that were converted to an all Y configuration for charter and Caribbean flying. They held 227 passengers. The forward First Class lounge and bar were removed, and a closet was placed on the left side, and 6 Y seats were placed on the right side, in line with the two windows. Here's the kicker ... as there was no overhead rack in the lounge, the seats placed there were Palomar seats! With full working lights and oxygen! Unfortunately, I never did get a picture, as it sure looked strange.

Now that would have been really cool. Just off the top of my head, it was probably a very relaxing place to sit, far from the madding crowd of a charter aircraft.

A bit off-topic, but my favorite Air Canada seats were the puffy round ones they put in the 747s and L1011s.

Back to Palomar: CP Air DC-8-40s got Heath Techna enclosed overhead bins in the early 70s, but retained the Palomar seats with reading lights, at least for awhile. At retirement, they had been converted over to standard seats by Weber, with utilities in the overheads.


User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 536 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6222 times:

Zippy-I believe flight 172 was a 727, that flew MIA-BWI-YOW......

User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Ea 747- You are right. I must have made a typo. The South bound flight I believe was EA 173. However on August 30, 1970 this flight was a DC-9. I remember perfectly. When we were at the EA ticket counter; (I was 14 and my sister 9) we had a little conundrum: We both wanted window seats but my sister wanted to sit with me. Ended up Dad got the asile, and my mom got the asile behind us. The 2 seat side of the DC-9 toward the aft portion of the coach cabin. I flew this flight in August 1966 and it was an Eastern B-720. On my 172 flights in 1968, 1976 and 1980 it was a 727. Now interestingly my cousin flew flight 172 home to BWI in August of 1974 and he told me it was a DC-9. Even to this he is still almost as fanatical about airline trivia as I am. That trip for him was on Eastern and the flight going to MIA probably 173 was a DC-9 this was August 1974. Our family joined his family down in MIA but we did the Auto Train that year. I would have rather flown but, we got to do Mickey (Disney World) when we were on our way home to Baltimore.
bwi-MIA
Correct me if I'm wrong but during busy periods in the 70's Eastern sometimes flew an L1011, A-300 and 757 on the YOW-
BWI-MIA segments and back. And the flights were 173 Southbound and 172 Northbound. And I forgot, in Fall of 1986 my sister flew Eastern 172 which again was a 727 with her boyfriend who became her ex husband.

We always seemed to miss the opportunity to get a wide body since it was either right before or right after the busy travel season to MIA.



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User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 10):

The following clip shows a UA stewardess (late 60s as far as I can tell) in the F cabin of a DC-8 (21 or 50 - not super

Groovy baby! Looks like the late 60's. That airport limo looks like an early 1960's Chevy stretched (before pimped out). It looks like there were no curtains but shades. I watched it twice and can't see the curtains. Love the music and the deep announcer's voice. Where's Austin Powers.   



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User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6113 times:

I flew on lots of UA DC-8's 12's, 21's, and 51/52's from 1962 through 1979, and I don't ever remember a cabin that did not have curtains, like in that wool video. My first UA DC-8 (non stretch) flight was UA 860 ORD-IDL on January 4, 1962, and my last, a DEN-LAS DC-8-51/52 in November of 1979. I believe UA and DL retired their last DC-8-50's in 1980. I remember a flight BOI-SFO in 1976 on one of the N8060-69U aircraft that happened to be configured all coach with 2-3 seating. I was never on an S Class DC-8 although it would have been just about like the one I flew on in 1976 from BOI to SFO, but I flew on the Red-White-Blue F/L/Y DC-8's in 1965-66 many times. Those aircraft had the original Y class Palomar seats in the back. Notice that the original Palomar's had a button release for the tray tables but that was replaced by the knob that turned as shown in the pictures above. My last Delta DC-8-51 flight was in 1977 or 1978 and I only remember them with Palomars. My first DC-8 flight was on a Eastern DC-8-21 in April of 1961, MIA-ORD, and I never got out of my seat in the FC lounge. Later I flew on EA DC-8's from MIA to JFK and ORD-MIA, the last time, in 1965. By the time I started traveling for business weekly in 1973, Eastern's short DC-8's were being retired, and I didn't fly on one in the months of that year before their retirement.

User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

why are they called "Palomar" seats? Was that the name of company that designed them? Built them?


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 22):
why are they called "Palomar" seats? Was that the name of company that designed them? Built them?

Just a marketing name. The seats on the early DC-8s were designed by Douglas, probably the last time a major aircraft manufacturer has been involved with designing aircraft seating. I expect some of the early DC-8 customers would have preferred to have had a choice of seat manufacturers, as they did on the 707.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5984 times:

I forgot to ad that when I flew on that Eastern DC-8 from MIA to BWI then known as BAL/Friendship in July of 1963 the curtains were a white background with turquoise or green designs on them like stars. Believe it or not the National Airlines Electra I flew in July of 1962 had the same design on their curtains. The DL 1968 my 2nd. and last rid on an 8 in August of 1966 from ATL-MIA had a solid tan/brownish curtain. Anyone else remember the white background with green star like designs on early Eastern DC-8's and other airliners with curtains from the late 50's early 1960's. Amazing the stuff one can remember from childhood days.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
25 CF-CPI : As mentioned, it was a marketing name, but Mount Palomar is well known in So. Cal, and has or had a famous observatory on its summit. I can only spec
26 swabrian : I worked some of the last DL DC-51 flights in OAK during 1978. I think they were all gone by 1980. Some of the things I remember were that they still
27 L1011 : In the early seventies, Eastern DC-8s and Electras had grayish tan window curtains with their blue and green seats. When Eastern changed to the wideb
28 Seat2A : I have really enjoyed this thread, so a big thank you to all who have contributed! Growing up in Colorado, I never got a chance to fly any Eastern DC-
29 milesrich : I flew on the following airlines DC-8 regular body jets, UA, EA, NA, DL, PA, AZ and UA's had the five seat coach lounge on the port side of the airpl
30 Post contains links Viscount724 : Note the bottom photo (click to enlarge) on the following page from UA's DC-8 introductory brochure dated 1958 (some time before it went into service
31 maxpower1954 : I'm absolutely amazed by the detailed memories you guys have about the interior of the DC-8. I've learned more about this in the last few days than in
32 zippyjet : It's an iconic bird. One of those you don't appreciate it till it's gone. In the era of homogination that bird is a stand alone benchmark representin
33 connies4ever : I agree. My first jet flight was in an 8 - AC851 YWG-YVR. I was 10. We were up front (Dad was AC staff), so 2x2, the big windows as compared to the 7
34 longhauler : Do you remember the foot rests TC/AC's Palomar DC-8s had in First Class? They were a wedge about a foot square, covered in the same blue fabric as th
35 Post contains images connies4ever : I remember them, but don't forget, I was 10. My feet couldn't reach them ! We didn't often get AC851 YWG-YVR as we were travelling space available, o
36 longhauler : Normally, it was 2 Pallets and 135Y in the Summer and 4 Pallets and 117Y in the winter. I would have to pull a timetable out, but it may have been th
37 Post contains links maxpower1954 : The AZ accident was due to accidental reverser deployment during a simulated engine failure on take-off . http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.p
38 Post contains images connies4ever : Thanks for that. 60 year old memory not always as it should be !
39 connies4ever : I do recall Conway DC-8s (-40s) LHR-YWG n/s, as I was on them. We had relatives in the UK. But with the marginal performance of the early -40s, headw
40 longhauler : Yes, that makes sense. LHR-YWG is slightly less than ZRH-YYZ, which the -43s did fly.
41 Post contains links maxpower1954 : I'm sure you guys know about this, but here's a personal story I've never read about the DC-8 supersonic test flight in 1961. http://www.airspacemag.c
42 Viscount724 : CP used the DC-8-43 YYC-AMS and YEG-AMS. Wouldn't be surprised if it was also used YVR-AMS although most CP flights stopped at either YYC or YEG (som
43 longhauler : The performance charts I have from 1967, show ZRH-YYZ as the longest route AC's DC-8-43s could do. In those days, MTOW was not flexible as it is now,
44 Viscount724 : CP also used the DC-8-43 on YVR-HND (4091 nm) and YYZ-FCO (3836 nm). On YVR-HND, fuel stops at ANC weren't unheard of even on the DC-8-63 and 747-200
45 zippyjet : I can't believe I forgot to ask but, how was the air flow from the gaspers which were built into the Palomar DC-8 seatbacks? I'd guess you'd need a st
46 longhauler : I don't remember it being any different from today's gaspers. The DC-8, used Turbo Compressors for pressurized air, some of which was routed through
47 Tomassjc : My last standard 8 ride was on a CP -43 SFO-YVR "Empress Of Mexico City" in February of '81. Wonderful service on a 2 hour flight as I recall. My very
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