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BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777  
User currently offlineSandgroper From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 74 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 16258 times:

BA after successful trials on the A318 will introduce new fuel saving paint coatings to 777-200, wonder if this will reflect in cheaper fares?

http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/tra...s-to-save-fuel-20111230-1pf1y.html

[Edited 2011-12-30 01:18:22]


Sandgroper
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15622 times:

Why would BA lower fares because if it ?

Prices are determined more by what the market will bear than by cost. In addition, the cost savings from this new paint will be minimal on a CASM basis.

This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece.


User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15587 times:
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Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece

The article is in no way an "eco friendly puff piece" the reason stated for doing it is rising fuel prices, nowhere does it even mention environmental benefits.

I think maybe you read a different article.

Quoting Sandgroper (Thread starter):

wonder if it's anything like the paint on the 787 nacelles?

Fred


User currently offlineSandgroper From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15426 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece.

Yeah just like winglets



Sandgroper
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7403 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15182 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece.

There is no BA Press Release on this subject on the BA web site.

There is no TripleO Press Release this subject on the TripleO web site. But there are Press Releases there dating back almost a year that talk of U2 being the first airline to trial the TripleO nanotech coating:

http://tripleops.com/media.php

This resulted in quite wide publicity at the time as, for example, here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12428667

If BA have trialed the TripleO nanotech coating on 318s and will now trial it on a 772, rather than making a 'puff piece' of it they seem to be keeping their hats on the whole project. And at this time so too do U2.


User currently offlineajhYXE From Canada, joined May 2011, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14288 times:

I wonder if AA will use something like this as an excuse to start painting their planes.


Saskatchewan Roughriders, 2013 Grey Cup Champions! "GO RIDERS GO!"
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8898 times:

I remember talking to someone from Easyjet and they told me their airline kept fuel costs down by washing the aircraft regularly.

BA might be changing the paint to bring down fuel costs but I'm sure there are other eco-friendly things they could be doing instead.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7789 times:

Here is a novel idea for the majors to save fuel w/ paint...hire professionals to paint your birds...do away with the rigid paint lines...the dirt and grease under the paint...use an airgun rather than paint rollers (AA)?!...Sata makes some great guns for this. Boeing has recommended that customers not paint their engine nacelles and cowlings on 787's as paint lines (tape lines) causes a less efficient airflow around engine as engine performance apparently critical where its exterior is concerned. Achieving "fuel saving" paint not that hard...just do a good job.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7403 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7160 times:

Quoting ajhYXE (Reply 5):
I wonder if AA will use something like this as an excuse to start painting their planes.

I do not think that would be necessary.

The TripleO web site - see first link in Reply 4 - talks of their nanotech coating being applied over the aircraft's paint after cleaning and then 'polarising' the aircraft with oxalic acid before applying their coating.

I can see no reason why bare metal should not be cleaned, polarised and coated in the same way. And it seems to me that most of the saving - estimated by TripleO at between 1 and 2 per cent of total fuel burn - of this procedure might be lost by the increased weight of the paint if AA were to first paint their aircraft.

The U2 assessment of this coating started last February is, according to the TripleO web site, a 12 month assessment involving eight aircraft. So we might hear something more in the coming months.


User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1866 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

Since we are talking about BA paint, if they do this, hopefully they will do it faster than the "To Fly, To Serve" shield. Am I correct in assuming that there are still only 2 a/c with this updating? Has this idea been shelved?

User currently offlinePaul787 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting ajhYXE (Reply 5):

That is actually pretty realistic, as they take the delivery of the new Airbus fleet and the 787s as those birds won't be able to carry the existing bare metal livery.



320/321/333/343/388/733/737/738/739/752/763/772/CR9/DH8/ER3/ER4/E75/M82
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12907 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
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Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Prices are determined more by what the market will bear than by cost. In addition, the cost savings from this new paint will be minimal on a CASM basis.

   100 thousand pounds is not a meaningful savings from the passenger perspective. If there is a benefit, it will be to allow more payload (cargo) and thus more revenue.

I'm skeptical of a 1% fuel burn reduction due to paint... It might be more economical in other ways and thus worth it though...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Are there any pics of the new paint with the crest?

User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

[quote=soon7x7,reply=7]Here is a novel idea for the majors to save fuel w/ paint...hire professionals to paint your birds...do away with the rigid paint lines...the dirt and grease under the paint...use an airgun rather than paint rollers (AA)?!...Sata makes some great guns for this. Boeing has recommended that customers not paint their engine nacelles and cowlings on 787's as paint lines (tape lines) causes a less efficient airflow around engine as engine performance apparently critical where its exterior is concerned. Achieving "fuel saving" paint not that hard...just do a good job.


IMHO, the above is probably the most sensible reply so far; Yes, this is the first I have heard of this idea; does it work?
I have no idea; (I hope it does) I will attempt to learn a little more about it before I develop a negative opinion about it.
I'm sure everyone who spends much time on this website realizes that all airplanes are "about" aerodynamics; I'm further assuming that this new paint must offer some aerodynamic benefit, however small it may be.

I don't suppose you could save much money on fuel if you painted your car with this new paint; but if you had hundreds of cars, all logging thousands of miles every day, and all these miles were at high sub-sonic speeds, and all burning today's frightfully expensive fuel, I'm sure even a savings of one tenth of one per cent would be very welcome, indeed.


[quote=Sandgroper,reply=3]Yeah just like winglets !

I take it from this that you tend to be "skeptical" of the value of winglets; I'm not an engineer, but I do know a few; I had a conversation with a "fairly well known" fellow at Oshkosh a few years back, and winglets came up; he assured me that
in many cases, winglets DEFINITELY help. ( The fellow's name was Burt Rutan btw )

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
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