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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 108  
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2254 posts, RR: 25
Posted (2 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 20301 times:
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Previous thread here: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107 (by cchan Dec 6 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Please continue discussion below.

Happy New Year

NZ1
Forum Moderator

230 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4953 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 20164 times:

quoting Koruman..
If they were lucky - - enough to have me in charge, they would be about to receive 788s configured 16J / 28U / 180Y.

Perhaps you could look at the seating to improve it to something like 24J/42U/180Y. However lets see what you would have had to work with with your layout . Using the analysis of Piano X , if you were to take delivery mid-2012 you would have an aircraft with a DOW of about 123t, perhaps a little less.. some 7t more than what is expected after LN90 in about early 2013.
Your problem amongst others is AKL-HKG-LHR. You are throwing about 300-seats a day at it with indifferent load factors and yields.
The long leg is HKG-LHR with an ESAD of ~6450nm. The 788 that you have will do this with a 29.5t payload, that is full 224-passenger load plus 8.5 t of cargo. The fuel load will be about 74t. Considerably less than the 772E's of 111t with the same payload on the same sector. The payload LHR-HKG will improve to 35t eastbound with an ESAD of ~5600nm. The AKL-HKG-AKL sectors are about the same at 5200nm where you can reach the max volume limited payload of ~40t.
It should be noted that the 123t 788 burns about 3.4% more fuel than the 116t version. Which is a drop in the bucket compared to what the 772E burns for the same payload. As a guide the fuel burn is about 90% of the fuel load.The fuel saving HKG-LHR is about 33t and at the current spot price of ~$973t saves some real change !
A 246-seat layout ups the passenger load by ~2.1t and reduces the cargo accordingly. But full it beats a 303-seat 772E running at a 75% load factor. The WOW factor of the 788 on that route has to guarantee full loads and good yields for at least two years.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 20026 times:

OKQ flew today FYI.

I think sunrisevalley is as usual spot on with his analysis.


User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 19796 times:

Quote from 777ER (thread 107)

"This morning I booked a WLG - MEL on QF (full service sale fare was cheaper then NZs 'seat' service). The service being offered is a lunch meal. Anyone able to tell me what service QF provide in terms of drinks and is the lunch just a snack type service or a real lunch type?"



In my opinion, the food offerings on QF trans Tasman flights are far better than what's generally found with NZ on comparable routes. It's a pity really, as most of my Tasman travel is with NZ!



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlinevhebb From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19580 times:

Hi,

QF offers full service on all trans tasman routes.

So a lunch service will include a hot meal, all beverages including alcohol, and in some cases a dessert is also offered.

Hope this helps


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2254 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 19542 times:
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See link below for video of OKQ performing a landing and high speed taxi test at Boeing.

A lovely looking beast. Due here in AKL next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gswkxNiIyuI

Video of first flight below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSeatUsgNNc

NZ1

[Edited 2012-01-02 04:00:04]

User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4953 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 19455 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 5):
Due here in AKL next week

Will you post the date and flight number , please.

Thanks


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19323 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 6):
Will you post the date and flight number , please.

It arrives 12th at 0900 I think.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19294 times:

any updates on the NZ long haul review, from memory they were saying the review would finish in Dec 11?

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 19277 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 8):
from memory they were saying the review would finish in Dec 11?

Most of the people in town making those decisions are on holiday still.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19204 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 8):
any updates on the NZ long haul review, from memory they were saying the review would finish in Dec 11?

It's not ready because they are still trying to concoct the following:

1) Justification for why 1-stop flights to UK/Europe via the USA are less profitable than non-stop routes from East Asia which are almost entirely VFR and package tourists.

2) Absurd arguments for why passengers want Seats 2 Suit long-haul, which Air Asia X and Oasis Hong Kong have proved they emphatically DON'T want.

3) More Boeing-bashing to blame late 787 deliveries for network stagnation, when in fact the airline has chosen not to exercise its existing 777-200ER, 777-200LR and 777-300ER purchase options.

4) More ways of devaluing the ability to earn significant frequent flyer points from long-haul economy ticket purchases. The ultimate aim is to go even beyond the current point where a member of the scheme can buy his ticket to London from Emirates and then hop down to BNZ and buy more Air NZ Airpoints than Air NZ would have awarded for buying an Air NZ ticket. The goal is to complete the transformation from the original and foolish "Fly to Earn" to the current "Earn to Fly" to the Holy Grail, which is "Don't Buy Flights from Us, Buy from our Competitors".

Once they have finished concocting more ways of self-harm along those lines the review will be made public, along with detailed explanations of why the public will love the changes.

[Edited 2012-01-02 18:58:09]

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12102 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19087 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 10):

1) Justification for why 1-stop flights to UK/Europe via the USA are less profitable than non-stop routes from East Asia which are almost entirely VFR and package tourists.

I fully agree that flights to UK/Europe are right now more better then Asia flights using B772ERs in a high premium config. If NZ are so keen on Asia (which clearly they are) then why arn't they having a B777 sub fleet with reduced premium seating and more economy? If other flights need reduced premium seating and more economy then NZ could put one of those B777s on a route when an Asia flight isnt needed.

Quoting koruman (Reply 10):
4) More ways of devaluing the ability to earn significant frequent flyer points from long-haul economy ticket purchases. The ultimate aim is to go even beyond the current point where a member of the scheme can buy his ticket to London from Emirates and then hop down to BNZ and buy more Air NZ Airpoints than Air NZ would have awarded for buying an Air NZ ticket. The goal is to complete the transformation from the original and foolish "Fly to Earn" to the current "Earn to Fly" to the Holy Grail, which is "Don't Buy Flights from Us, Buy from our Competitors".

I'm only really interested in the status points earning (but the airpoints are nice for upgrades), can those airpoints you can buy also earn you the same amount in status points?


User currently offlinehornetfan From New Zealand, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 19018 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 10):
It's not ready because they are still trying to concoct the following:

Having seen the complete disaster that Fyfe made in the UK running ITV digital, it is amazing that he is still in charge, and is being allowed to make the same mistakes again of backing the wrong horses, and not taking the tough decisions before the company falls on its backside again.

In the past 12 months the company has underperformed the NZX50 by around 35% and since early december when the review became public it has underperformed by around 8%, at a time when a review of operations would normally be seen as positive, unless the market does have faith in the management.

The final consideration is the sell down of some of the government shares, which is likely to happen in 2013, so they will want some quick wins.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12102 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18930 times:
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Quoting hornetfan (Reply 12):
and since early december when the review became public it has underperformed by around 8%

The reviews been released? Link to the release please


User currently offlinehornetfan From New Zealand, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18759 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 13):
The reviews been released? Link to the release please

I was referring to the fact the review is being conducted being made public. If you want a link, type Air NZ review into google. This is when the herald reported it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10772878

When a public company announces these reviews if the market believes it will be positive it usually has a upward impact on share price, whereas in this case the market has seen it as negative, reflecting I suspect the same fears Koruman has raised on here, and I agree with.

Links to his time there,

Feb 2002 - Fyfe puts on the record that his plan is working (2nd paragraph)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2...al-turns-on-46000-new-viewers.html

May 2002 - He is made redundant as the company he was CEO of failed, having been placed into administration on 17 March no less than 32 days after he said all was going well and his plan was on track.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4...igns-over-ITV-Digital-debacle.html


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 18583 times:

Quoting hornetfan (Reply 12):
Having seen the complete disaster that Fyfe made in the UK running ITV digital, it is amazing that he is still in charge, and is being allowed to make the same mistakes again of backing the wrong horses, and not taking the tough decisions before the company falls on its backside again.

The problem is that he inherited from Ralph Norris a company in good shape. And he then took an ultra-conservative position in a recession, which made the operating figures look better than they were.

But a number of appalling decisions were made on Fyfe's watch.

He ignored that fact that his large markets in Queensland and Victoria had no recession, but rather had robust growth combined with a lack of service from Qantas, which was also true of Perth which could/should have been a staging post to London and South Africa. And while he fiddled, Virgin Australia seized Queensland and Victoria and got into bed across the Pacific with Delta and Hawaiian rather than Air NZ. Air NZ is now 15% owner of an airline which funnels passengers to the USA to those airlines, not itself! You couldn't make it up. Especially when Air NZ's 77E and 77L options are a perfect fit for Virgin Australia's needs.

Fyfe also decided to give leisure travellers to the UK, Europe and North America a special little gift, too. For as long as anyone could remember, Air NZ's point of difference had been the ability to take an online stopover in Tahiti, Fiji or Samoa. This was prominent in Air NZ's marketing in the UK - remember the "cups of tea" billboard across London showing the Pacific network options? So he closed the sectors from there to Los Angeles which enabled that. And suddenly demand from LHR to LAX fell from 744-size to 77E size, almost overnight.

Fyfe also ignored his company's own existing market research and data, which showed that long-haul passengers chose to pay a premium to fly Air NZ for the extra personal space (34 inch pitch on the 744, for example). When the 77W configuration was decided the airline distributed to every frequent flyer a brochure trumpeting "the extra personal space long-haul passengers value". And then put inadequate pitch in Premium Economy and made Economy 10-abreast on a 777. The clear message to their most loyal passengers was "we hereby acknowledge in writing that we've heard what you want, and we're giving you the opposite, take it or leave it."

And on that subject, on Fyfe's watch the management also elected not to exercise any of the existing options for 777 family aircraft which could have done in 2009 what the 787 will now do in 2015.

But most importantly, Fyfe allowed (and that is too passive a word) the frequent flyer program to be repositioned in such a way that it discourages frequent flyers from remaining loyal to his airline, and instead targets retail shoppers.

Russell Brand made some beastly comments about George Bush a number of years ago, which I won't repeat out of context here. But he finished with a comment that entirely suits whoever dreamed up, approved and then implemented an "Earn to Fly" retail-based frequent flyer program. His words were that the person he was describing "wouldn't be trusted with scissors" where he came from. And as soon as I read the airline's spin about "Earn to Fly" and understood the damage to airline loyalty, that phrase instantly sprang to mind.

All of these changes were precisely that - a radical change in direction. Which exhibits a surprising level of hubris, a "we (I?) know better than my predecessors" attitude. Except those predecessors didn't lose money long-haul, whereas under Mr Fyfe the airline now does.

So basically the last few years can be described as follows. Listen to what your long-haul customers want, then give them the opposite. And make your loyalty scheme discourage loyalty. And then be surprised why you're not making profits long-haul.

[Edited 2012-01-03 19:35:33]

[Edited 2012-01-03 19:38:34]

User currently onlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1180 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18500 times:

I've been following the NZ threads for a few years. Time to make a first post:
In another thread on this site about Lufthansa retiring its 744s, reply 25 mentions that Air New Zealand has a second 747 that will be scrapped soon. I assume that this is just a rumor but wonder if there is any truth in it?
Here is the link: First LH 744 Retired (by na Jan 3 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Current 744s in Air New Zealand fleet:
ZK-SUH - GE engines - owned
ZK-NBT - Rolls Royce engines - leased
ZK-NBU - Rolls Royce engines - leased
ZK-NBV - GE engines - owned

Since both the GE aircraft are owned, I assume that the next 744 to leave the fleet will be a leased one with RR engines, probably ZK-NBT as its older. I am aware that, as fewer airlines operate them, 744s with Rolls Royce engines are less sought after than their GE counterparts but surely disposing them selling them to a Rolls Royce 744 operator such as Transaero would be more profitable for the lessor than scrapping them?



Air New Zealand; first to commercially fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18494 times:

There's plenty in the last few posts I may or may not agree w/K'man about, but one thing we do agree on is that the Board of Directors should be voting on whether or not to keep the CEO. Right now. Before any other 'cost cutting' measures are implemented. There is much to be done if we want to keep this company viable, and fresh eyes on the (actual - rather than potential/invented) problems is essential right now - this goes for the whole of NZ management upper and lower.

User currently offlinehornetfan From New Zealand, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18476 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 17):
There's plenty in the last few posts I may or may not agree w/K'man about, but one thing we do agree on is that the Board of Directors should be voting on whether or not to keep the CEO. Right now.

Alternatively the Government being the majority shareholder could in effect force their hand. The bottom line is he needs to go before another one of his hairbrained schemes puts the airline beyond the point of no return. I simply can't see the logic of becoming focused on North Asia where the money is from package deals, rather than focusing on the long haul routes which have served NZ so well for so long.

If there was no market from NZ to Europe, how come Emirates, Singapore, Qantas et al all manage to fill planes and take people to Europe and North America. The prime reason is the range of stopover options they provide.

I don't know where to find numbers of people flying to various places, but I suspect that a simple analysis would show passenger numbers to Europe and North America exceed those to China and Japan.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25115 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18462 times:
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Quoting hornetfan (Reply 18):
I simply can't see the logic of becoming focused on North Asia where the money is from package deals, rather than focusing on the long haul routes which have served NZ so well for so long.

If there was no market from NZ to Europe, how come Emirates, Singapore, Qantas et al all manage to fill planes and take people to Europe and North America. The prime reason is the range of stopover options they provide.

Qantas has has said it isn't making money on long haul international and is reducing service to the UK.

The world has changed, partly because of airlines like Emirates, partly because of the woeful economies of the northern hemisphere

As to "North Asia" it's an old battle here, but the economic reality is simple:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10753061

"Chinese tourists are on track to spend more money than visitors from the UK and the United States by the middle of next year.

Ministry of Economic Development forecasts show Chinese tourists will spend $604 million during 2013, easily overtaking the expenditure of US and UK tourists."


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 18428 times:

Quoting hornetfan (Reply 18):
If there was no market from NZ to Europe, how come Emirates, Singapore, Qantas et al all manage to fill planes and take people to Europe and North America. The prime reason is the range of stopover options they provide.

I am sorry, did you really say Qantas - as you will know, Qantas is dropping two of its daily flights to London, including its flight through Hong Kong. There is quite a strong possibility that Qantas will drop its only flight to Continental Europe (FRA), in favour of codesharing on other airline's services.

Apparently, some Australian commentators point to AirNZ as the way to do things. Those Australian commentators do not read the NZ thread.


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2254 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 18412 times:
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Quoting zkojq (Reply 16):

I've been following the NZ threads for a few years. Time to make a first post:
In another thread on this site about Lufthansa retiring its 744s, reply 25 mentions that Air New Zealand has a second 747 that will be scrapped soon. I assume that this is just a rumor but wonder if there is any truth in it?
Here is the link: First LH 744 Retired (by na Jan 3 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Current 744s in Air New Zealand fleet:
ZK-SUH - GE engines - owned
ZK-NBT - Rolls Royce engines - leased
ZK-NBU - Rolls Royce engines - leased
ZK-NBV - GE engines - owned

Since both the GE aircraft are owned, I assume that the next 744 to leave the fleet will be a leased one with RR engines, probably ZK-NBT as its older. I am aware that, as fewer airlines operate them, 744s with Rolls Royce engines are less sought after than their GE counterparts but surely disposing them selling them to a Rolls Royce 744 operator such as Transaero would be more profitable for the lessor than scrapping them?

NBT and NBU leave the fleet in Feb and Mar of ths year. I cannot disclose where they are going yet, but they are not being scrapped.

NZ1


User currently onlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1180 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 18381 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 21):
I cannot disclose where they are going yet, but they are not being scrapped.

Pleased to hear it  . I hope they have long and useful lives with their next operator, whoever that might be.



Air New Zealand; first to commercially fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 18298 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 22):
Pleased to hear it . I hope they have long and useful lives with their next operator, whoever that might be.

Southern Air Cargo have taking the previous two 744sI believe, so I wonder if they want any more???


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 18230 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Qantas has has said it isn't making money on long haul international and is reducing service to the UK.

Qantas has exceptional circumstances - apart from a few A380s all its long-haul flying is on inefficient 744s.

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
As to "North Asia" it's an old battle here, but the economic reality is simple

I don't dispute that, and I don't challenge the idea of Air NZ operating services to China and Japan. I just think they should use dedicated high-density aircraft for the China operations.

Unlike Mr Fyfe, I have faith that Air NZ's fundamental long-haul business model was sound. An end-of-the line carrier based in a small, poor country has to offer 1-stop and even 2-stop services in addition to non-stop ones. And it has to take every opportunity to link wealthier markets than its own as part of those 1-stop services. And a balanced portfolio of long-haul to/from NZ, Australia, North America and East Asia makes more sense to me than betting your shirt on Asia and cutting everything else.

Unlike Mr Fyfe, I think that the long-haul operations would benefit from development rather cuts. I think Air NZ has always enjoyed superior yields by offering superior space in all classes, and that cutting that is very risky.

Unlike Mr Fyfe, I think that the old Airpoints was as good as a dollar-denominated loyalty program could be - but I also think that other airlines don't denominate in dollars because they would expose themselves with each inevitable devaluation.


25 mariner : You could find excuses for everything or you could dump on Qantas management for only having "inefficient" 747's. I suppose you could find excuses fo
26 CXB744 : Everyone might be consider that this talk of dropping Air NZ's 2 London routes might be in protest of the new Carbon trading scheme imposed by the E.U
27 koruman : I'm not actually sure why there are these leaks about London services being under particular review, or for that matter Rob Fyfe's statements about th
28 Post contains links xiaotung : http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/Air...te-pay-cut-abc-1795635927.html?x=0 I haven't seen anyone posting this. Union secretary Andrew Little says airli
29 aerorobnz : I don't know which ground-staff they mean. there is nothing I have seen internally that backs that article up yet.
30 777ER : Koruman is 100% correct IMHO about the situation QF long haul is in in regards to its long haul fleet being B744s and A380s. If QF ordered B772ERs an
31 ZKOJH : WOW! that's strange here we are all talking about the long haul plan and cutting London, and they go for home-ground kills first. and go for the groun
32 777ER : I vote for the CEO and some of the Senior staff. I fear NZ is shortly going to once again become the laughing joke of the Pacific/long haul as NZ was
33 Post contains links mariner : It is quite extraordinary to me that so many blame Qantas long haul problems on fleet choice and completely ignore both (a) the very high level compe
34 kiwiandrew : Really? I haven't noticed a lot of A350s flying around with any carrier. Or are you suggesting that if QF had ordered the first version of the A350 t
35 mariner : Pretty much. The then A350 already had 200 orders. Indeed, "the market" did - if Stephen Udvar Hazy can be called "the market." But then, of course,
36 Unclekoru : I agree, once all delivered, they will have a good mix of aircraft. The 777 certainly hasn't been a magic bullet for Air NZ either. I think the only
37 gemuser : Assuming this is true, which is highly debatable, that still does not mean that QF would be better off with the B777 because you have not accounted f
38 deconz : Well it's an Australian website and quotes savings over 5 years in A$'s so I'm guessing it's NZ's Australian based work force?
39 koruman : Are you serious? Qantas ordered a paper plane late in 2005, which had only just had its name changed from 7E7 to 787, and they expected it to enter s
40 Post contains links mariner : Who else to blame? Boeing didn't deliver on its contractual promise. That promise had swung the deal away from Airbus. Nor was Qantas the first airli
41 koruman : Ah yes, Air France. The airline that has 125 permanent staff at Papeete, where it flies in and out fewer than 900 seats per week. While Air New Zeala
42 mariner : Not just the cost of oil, no. But it isn't just Air France. Why did Emirates and Singapore post such lousy results? I don't know what that has to do
43 koruman : Alaska Airlines is really more a Seattle and Portland airline than a pure Alaska one, isn't it? Why should Air NZ limit itself to a sole long-haul hu
44 mariner : It has very little to do with the name. Alaska (the state) is in the US and Alaska (the airline) is a US airline and if its primary hub - SEA - in th
45 777ER : since when was the A350 flying? The A350 hasn't even been built, yet done any flights Its a known fact the B777 has lower operating costs then the B7
46 motorhussy : Pretty sure this was in reference to the original A350 (the A330 plus).
47 mariner : I never said it was built, that was the whole point. The Qantas order for 787's - based on the 2008 delivery slots - helped put the kibosh on it. But
48 Post contains images mariner : Just to clarify, when I refer to "the then A350", it is to that aircraft - the souped up A330 - planned for delivery in 2010. The A350XWB being built
49 anstar : Doesn't AF have a crew base in PPT which would inflate these numbers? If so you could say similar things about Air NZ and their UK personnel head cou
50 gemuser : OK, point by point: Agree the B777 has lower DIRECT operating costs than the B744. I'd bet that the three second hand B744s had lower TOTAL operating
51 sunrisevalley : The 77L burning something under 7t./ hr and the 744 something over 9t an hour.
52 zkncj : Has ZK-NAQ been pulled from service? it seems to be parked up with ZK-NQC now.
53 koruman : There are 600,000 people with NZ passports living in Australia's Eastern states, plus a further 400,000 former NZ passport holders who now travel on
54 NZ2 : But all other airlines face the same issues and have access to the same equipment, it comes down to the choices the respective management team take i
55 mariner : I don't dispute any of that. I have said frequently that I would very much like to see Air NZ use its beyond Australia rights. So I'm confused. I don
56 aerorobnz : ZK-NAQ?? that was a 737-204 originally - went to Cayman airways. I couldn't find it on the register. Is that the right rego??
57 NZ2 : What I am saying is you cannot blame the 777 for the financial standing of AF/KLM, it is the management and other circumstances not its choice of air
58 mariner : I don't "blame" the 777. I don't "blame" any aircraft. Emirates is a very profitable airline and flies the 777. Lufthansa is a very profitable airlin
59 zkojq : Yes, but if they had ordered Boeing 777-200ERs earlier, so that they were being delivered from 1998/1999 onwards (same timespan that British Airways,
60 koruman : Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought that @alangirvan and yourself were implying that there is a fundamental economic argument against flying Australia/
61 ZKSUJ : I heard the 77L is the best machine on routes 6+ hours for the 777 family. 7t is pretty good. They did order the A330 family which would have been a
62 Post contains links mariner : That may be true, but the major problem of the 787 has been the incremental nature of the delays. If Qantas - or Air NZ or several others - had known
63 zkncj : NZ1924 SYD-LAX? covering for VA again?
64 RoseFlyer : Do you think that there is room for an airline like Air New Zealand to grow long haul service out of BNE or MEL? That seems a bit confusing to me. BN
65 xiaotung : When Norris was still CEO, Brisbane mayor was courting NZ to open AKL-BNE-PVG route. Of course later NZ chose to fly to PVG direct under Fyfe. BNE st
66 Post contains links xiaotung : http://www.smh.com.au/business/virgi...continue-in-nz-20120105-1pmrt.html It looks like DJ is still losing money on the Tasman since the alliance with
67 ZKOJH : So yet another great move by NZ lets buy a stake in an airline and get some profit oh wait still to many animals on the Tasman to fight with, It sound
68 Post contains links kiwiinoz : I'm amazed that the ballooning tragedy has not been mentioned yet: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10777246 It sound
69 koruman : Yes, I do. Three years ago the only service from BNE to North America was Qantas 5 times weekly, with an inferior product in every class (at the time
70 Post contains links NZ1 : There was a thread started earlier here: 11 Die In NZ Hot Air Balloon Crash (by texan Jan 6 2012 in Civil Aviation) NZ1
71 kiwiandrew : and when arguing for it have you actually checked whether NZ has the relevant rights to pick up pax in MEL/BNE and take them to HKG and beyond? From
72 Post contains images koruman : I worded my post quite carefully to reflect that uncertainty. There are steps open to Air NZ in seeking to explore new markets and traffic rights, wh
73 cchan : Don't forget there is a very strong competitor here: CX. With both CX and QF as competitors, these maybe too hard for NZ?
74 PA515 : The 7th Jan NZ1924 was ZK-NBU arriving AKL from SIN about 0830. The flight number was previously used for a SYD-LAX charter and incorrectly recognise
75 nascarnut : Appears QANTAS A380 diverting to AKL. QF012 ETA into AKL around 0800 on Sunday 8th Jan[Edited 2012-01-07 08:27:08]
76 nascarnut : The Black 777-300, ZK-OKQ is due into AKL on 12 Jan. NZ6391 etd PAE 2110/10 eta AKL 0900/12
77 Boeing767-300 : The debate on whether or not QF should have bought 777s rages on. I think it has a lot to do with the original purchase of A380. The A330 came as the
78 mariner : I think that is true. With the A380 for the big long haul routes, the A330 is probably more useful to Qantas than the 777 would have been. mariner
79 jasewgtn : Funny site this morning, Flew AKL/HLZ on NZ2203, ZK-EAD (B1900D) and we were taxing out behind a Qantas Widebody A/C which held at A1 and we snuck out
80 nascarnut : Diversion. QF012 SYD-LAX VH-OQI
81 deconz : QF012 LAX-SYD
82 koruman : I don't agree at all. The A380 may be a good size for SYD-SIN-LHR and SYD-LAX. But it is too large to be ideal for BNE-LAX, BNE-Asia-LHR, MEL-Asia-Eu
83 Post contains links mariner : Hmmmm? The A330HGW has a range of around 7000 nautical miles (6840nm-7200nm): Jetstar Confirms HGW A332s (by JerseyFlyer Oct 2 2009 in Civil Aviation
84 nascarnut : Aerolineas Argentinas latest A340-300 LV-CSE just arrived in AKL from XMN. Looks good in new paint scheme. Aircraft is parked on layover stand at Intl
85 sunrisevalley : How many A330-200's do QF and JQ have? AirFleets say's 8. Apparently 4 are used domestically and are probably not HGW versions. Leaves four for Inter
86 mariner : I've no idea and it doesn't look as if Qantas plans to use the HGW to its range advantage, just as I don't think Qantas is going to acquire the 777.
87 sunrisevalley : I understand. But there is a gap between what the A330-300's and 767-300ER's can do and the 744's.
88 koruman : My (very crude) understanding is that the rule of thumb is that an A330-200 can fly SYD-HNL or AKL-LAX but cannot fly BNE-LAX or SYD-LAX with a commer
89 Post contains links mariner : From the mouth of Airbus, Koruman: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...ean-air-orders-six-more-a330-200s/ "Korean Air has placed a new firm order
90 alangirvan : The weights of the A330-200 and -300 are increasing all the time. When Qantas took their 6 new aircraft a few years ago,t hey tried routes like SYD-BO
91 koruman : I think that the competition to which you refer has mainly hurt Qantas in terms of the 20 million passengers living within 100 km of Manchester, Newc
92 mariner : The difference is that Emirates, say, would probably attract many of those pax not by bringing them to Australia but by taking them to Asia. Qantas (
93 koruman : At long-last we agree about something! I have no time or sympathy for the management at Qantas or Air NZ feeling sorry for themselves about being "en
94 mariner : It doesn't actually enrage me, very little enrages me these days, but we agree in principle. I've always believed that the NZ market isn't big enough
95 zkojq : Yes but unless i'm wrong, this range increase is only for A330-200s delivered from 2010 onwards. A330s delivered before then cannot operate 7,200nm r
96 mariner : I believe that's right. At more than one point in time, that thinking was quite correct. As I said earlier, the incremental nature of the 787 delays
97 nascarnut : The newest Toll Holdings 737 freighter arrived in AKL 8th Jan after ferrying LAX-HNL-APW-AKL. N704AG 737-400SF to be registered ZK-TLF. Aircraft is cu
98 LHRBFSTrident : Any ideas why ZK-NBT was parked remote at LAX on Saturday afternoon (Jan 7) ? I thought LAX was an all-77W/77E operation at this point - was there a s
99 aklrno : There is still a 747 AKL-LAX and return 3 or 4 days a week. I'm heading out on one in a few hours.
100 zkncj : ZK-OKQ isn't in service yet, it arrives in AKL next week.
101 nascarnut : OKQ arrives in AKL 0900/12th. NZ 6 AKL-LAX goes 77W daily ex Mon effective on 24th Jan. Currently last scheduled 747 to LAX is NZ6/30Jan. 747 will op
102 Post contains images LHRBFSTrident : Cheers - thanks for the info - have a great flight
103 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Auckland Airport may be targeted asset'' The target of a mystery foreign group approved to make a $1.3 billion investment in New Zealand last year i
104 777ER : In regards to Koruman's recent experience with VA on its BNE-LAX service and only earning Airpoints and not status points, was the flight booked with
105 xiaotung : No, only trans-Tasman flights with NZ number operated by DJ earn Status Points. By the way, NZ and VA do not codeshare.
106 TravellerPlus : I saw in today's paper that NZ is selling Premium Economy to HNL. Are they changing aircraft type or "downgrading" the 763 business cabin?[Edited 2012
107 byronicle6 : There is a seasonal upguage to 772 during the busy June, July & August US summer months[Edited 2012-01-08 21:13:35]
108 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Air New Zealand success in All of Government Air Travel Tender'' Air New Zealand welcomes news it has been successful in its tender to supply air tr
109 Post contains links and images gytr31 : Eagle has repainted their first 1900D in the crazy about rugby scheme, looks not so bad, Will be great to see these winging their way around the regio
110 kiwiandrew : Nice to see that they have learned from the mistake they made on the A320s of making the Koru look like an afterthought. The scheme looks good on the
111 aerorobnz : If you click on it you soon see that the "premium economy" is business class. for around $2500 ow. The 1900D looks best of all the black planes. By s
112 koruman : You're mistaking what my Virgin Australia experience was. I've been playing off Air NZ v Qantas v Virgin recently, as Air NZ moves further and further
113 nascarnut : ZK-EAG will be in AKL from 0700 - 1100 on Tuesday 10th and then enters scheduled service. Planned to operate to following cities next couple of days
114 zkncj : Sitting in the lounge looking at EAG, they brought a van up to it and unloaded a few people. Looks like its going on a press flight this morning.[Edit
115 Post contains links NZ1 : Air NZ has just been announced as the ATW Airline Of The Year for 2012. Link below: http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...aland-atw-s-2012-airline-ye
116 NZdsgnr : WOW again!!
117 aerorobnz : Should they be winning the value based carrier award instead of Air Asia X? "ATW editors also cited Air New Zealand’s commitment to operating a ver
118 zkojq : Congratulations to Air NZ (though i'm not entirely sure they deserved it). Does this mean that all employees will get an extra day off like last time
119 aerokiwi : Yeah, and profitability and customer service were won by other carriers. "Use of social media" - really? THAT'S a category worthy of mention? Sigh. B
120 koruman : This represents a glorious vindication of the CEO's self-professed policy of spending his days on Facebook, Twitter and replying by email to all and
121 NZ1 : Given the fact there is likely to be job losses this year due to the desire to cut costs from the Long Haul operation, I wouldn't count on it. It was
122 777ER : All of those examples you give are the reasons why I decided to give QF a go when I go to MEL in a few months (apart from the domestic connections an
123 hornetfan : I recently flew QF back from SYD to AKL and it was simply horrible, cramped seating, poor service, food was average, one drink, and legroom that if y
124 Post contains images aerokiwi : On a 738? I've always found them similar in comfort to the A320. Given I'd be paying more for no bag, no meal and limited IFE, I think I'll risk it.
125 NZ107 : What do OKQ's first flights look like? Any runs across the Tasman before starting?
126 NZ2 : . Agreed! I did that once and being only 5'7 I still had my knees jammed in against the seat in front. When the person in front reclined I could not e
127 flyjetstar : NZ 887 CHC-SYD is delayed by 5 hours so far today. Anyone know why?
128 zkncj : While I'm not sure about that flight, I did notice a 733 at WLG International yesterday. Maybe an A320 has gone out on tech
129 zkncj : I had 2 domestic A320 flights yesterday (AKL-WLG-AKL) and they didn't enable the inflight cell service, anyone know if its common on this route?
130 aerorobnz : I would risk it too. I've only been aboard the Jetconnect 738, not flown it and it is fine. The interior fabrics are not very pleasing to the eye IMO
131 aerorobnz : what rego?? it might have been inoperative on that aircraft, or alternatively was actually an international spec A320 operating domestically. OJC was
132 aklrno : I had it two weeks ago on that route.
133 zkncj : It was ZK-OJR both ways, they announced that the service would be available once the sign was off. But that never happened.
134 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Wellington Airport named one of world's scariest landings'' A British travel journalist has named Wellington Airport in a list of the 15 scariest ai
135 Post contains images zkojq : ZK-OKQ is currently overflying Auckland on its delivery flight. Edited[Edited 2012-01-11 12:15:17]
136 Post contains images NZ2 : that cannot be Auckland as the sky is blue in the photo - unless it has been "enhanced'
137 kiwiandrew : As an Aucklander I was just thinking exactly the same thing. Still, regardless of any photoshopping it looks stunning.
138 timb777 : Anyone know when ZK- OKQ is due to hit the LHR route? any chance of being on NZ1 LHR_LAX on 22/01/2012 or NZ1 LAX-AKL on the 24th/01/2012? I appreciat
139 777ER : On my last A320 flight, it was announced its operating, but when I tried to connect, my phone wouldn't let me, but my neighbours (iPhone) was connect
140 Post contains links 777ER : Qantas are saying that Trans-Tasman flights are tough to operate and Qantas believe a flight war is about to happen thanks to EK, NZ and DJ http://www
141 nzrich : There is a maximum number of 6 phones on at one time so even thou the system may be on the maximum number of users may already be using the service m
142 aerorobnz : It will be easy enough to find out once I'm back at work, but I'd say your chances are 1 in 5 on your return flight, Less likely for the first sector
143 zkncj : They didn't switch off the "No Cellphone Light"
144 koruman : The most tellingly awful figures, which don't surprise me at all, belong to Jetstar's Tasman operations. 74% loads with an all-economy LCC model? Tha
145 CaptainCrackers : I'm not at all familiar with the system, but this strikes me as an incredible limitation. 6 slots for 171 seats?
146 Post contains links zkojq : I3news mentioned the 24th but i cannot remember if that is for LAX or LHR The photo was 'enhanced' but the sky was still blue. Here is the original h
147 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Probably looking for an elusive bit of blue sky for a photo opportunity
148 aerokiwi : Sounds like the usual blather. DJ's been effectively removed from the Tasman, and I suspect will withdraw after the two-year stand-down period for ca
149 Post contains images aerorobnz : probably because they didn't want to bend their new aircraft with a heavy landing so dumped fuel . I think it was actually way early arriving and the
150 nascarnut : [quote=aerorobnz,reply=149]I think it was actually way early arriving and they needed to slow down so the media release would still be on time aerobnz
151 timb777 : thanks for the replys! Ok, so looks as if there is a slim chance it may operate to LAX on the 24th.... fingers crossed
152 Post contains links and images BMIFlyer : She's gorgeous!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic9Y0Iii96U Also spot the beech too
153 NZ2 : Hey anyone know a website that lets you see how many seats are left in varios class on a flight, pretty basic format and 7 was the max it showed meani
154 sunrisevalley : Have you checked out ExpertFlyer.com . They have a free section with limited capabilities which might be sufficient for your purpose..
155 Post contains links macilree : Re the AirAsia X announcement last night, note the pre-announcement speculation from yesterday in a Malaysian newspaper, The Star, about the future of
156 aklrno : Considering the price, and the fact that domestic NZ flights are usually about 1 hour long, I think most people (like me) would try to wait until arr
157 nzrich : Ok then you were probably on our newest A320D and each new aircraft fitted with the mobile device has to be signed off individually . Unfortunately t
158 aerorobnz : OKQ first flight NZ135 AKL-BNE 23rd.
159 777ER : Can anyone tell me what B77W is operating NZ135 on March 5th at this stage?
160 NZ1 : Flights are only allocated a tail 28 days prior. I'll try and let you know as soon as it is loaded. NZ1
161 HLZCPH : Hi, when is OJK (PR-MBJ) back from Brasil? I read on here a while back, it was about now? Would the latest maintenance checks be done before coming he
162 motorhussy : Too hard to read back through the thred so apologies, but has anyone covered the NZ 330 ETOPS that they're getting with the next Triple-7 300ER's? And
163 aerorobnz : Yeah I have briefly. There are some announcements to be made shortly about the longhaul business, anything regarding new routes etc are likely to be
164 kiwiandrew : Any idea about the timeframe? "Shortly" is open to interpretation. and presumably subject to approvals by the New Zealand CAA as well?
165 sunrisevalley : Which should be automatic if the filings are in accordance with the published EDTO standards.
166 NZ1 : OJK arrives next week into AKL. All current due maintenance has been carried out by TAM in Brazil. The aircraft is not going into Domestic service bu
167 aerorobnz : read imminently. Before the end of the month. Currently down for NZ2AKL-LAX-LHR on the 23rd....
168 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Thanks for that
169 aerorobnz : While researching for a couple of rtw trips involving at least 6-8 longhaul flights each later in the year I have noticed that I am actively avoiding
170 byronicle6 : They have lost a potential $1800+ from me in a trip planned AKL-LAX later this year. Would much prefer to fly via SYD/MEL/BNE on Virgin Australia eve
171 sunrisevalley : I have noticed a significant Virgin Aus advantage particularly in premium economy on LAX-AKL via SYD/BNE/MEL
172 SXI899 : I can't believe that it's been almost 6 years since we ferried her over to Brazil!! Who's flying her back? TAM or ANZ?
173 HLZCPH : Thanks for the info NZ1. Will she be in the NZ colours upon arrival? SXI899, what was the routing last time?
174 NZ1 : NZ crew flying her home. Arrival now delayed until 7th Feb. Will be arriving all white. NZ1[Edited 2012-01-17 19:57:22]
175 Post contains links ZKOJH : More good news for WLG Airport; ''Wellington airport draws global acclaim'' Opinions may be divided, but Wellington Airport's so-called Rock terminal
176 nascarnut : The Black 77W ZK-OKQ is being pulled into service early. It is currently scheduled to operate NZ2/19th AKL-LAX-LHR. This is due to NZ1/17th ex LAX div
177 Post contains links xiaotung : http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...d-emirates-jet-20120119-1q7d9.html 'Sarcastic' Air NZ crew member sacked after trying to board Emirates jet. Wo
178 Post contains links A330NZ : http://www.christchurchairport.co.nz...ch-airport-signs-up-top-sportsmen/ I wonder if this strategy will work?
179 koruman : It will half-work. Well over 90% of Indian males in the demographic groups to travel long-haul non-VFR will recognise Hadlee. I would guess that the
180 The777Man : Data.flight24.com shows ZK-OKO operating the flight. Since the quote was quoted 8 h ago, perhaps things changed ? The777Man
181 aerorobnz : OKQ airborne about 2335 as NZ2.
182 Zkpilot : what is not mentioned there is that her activity is actually a breach of aviation laws. If you are airside as a security pass holder you are not enti
183 The777Man : Many thanks ! Looking forward to see it here this afternoon! The777Man
184 nascarnut : Two Air NZ aircraft heading to SIN tonight. ZK-NCL 767-300 NZ1925 etd AKL 2230 eta SIN 0435 ZK-NBU 747-400 NZ1927 etd AKL 0030 eta SIN 0620 NBU will t
185 kiwiandrew : Do you know the purpose of these flights? Charters for troops on exercise?
186 nascarnut : Probably moving Singaporean Troops back to SIN. I had read where NZ regularily doe charters for the Singapore Armed Forces moving troops from SIN to
187 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Air NZ kicks off 2012 in winning style'' Air New Zealand Airpoints? customers can win a five-night holiday package for two in Hong Kong or North Ame
188 Post contains images nz2 : Great, booked two flights last week.......however I expect another SYD trip in 2 weeks so may get a chance to have a crack
189 zkojq : I assume that if Air Asia X was to pull out of the South East Asia - NZ market, Jetstar would be the biggest beneficiary?
190 SXI899 : It's off the top of my head, but as I recall we flew Auckland-Papeete-Easter Island-Santiago-Macapa.
191 Unclekoru : I saw a QF 738 and an ATR in the Execujet hangar in Wellington this morning. I guess the ATR is there as a result of the recent incident with the post
192 777ER : The Post F27 departed the day after its incident and AFAIK is now back in service. Wasn't the Execujet hanger also to be used as an MX base for upto B
193 NZ6 : Seeing as things are going slow on here, there are new destinations yes note the "s" coming up. Any guesses on where?
194 kiwiandrew : New destinations for who? NZ?
195 ZKSUJ : Ah yea, it's speculation time... Domestic? Short haul? Long Haul?
196 aerorobnz : If Brazil isn't next on the list then they will never ever increase their profits to the levels they want longterm. I worry that they will just be an
197 Post contains images SCL767 : Perhaps a AKL-SCL/GRU service? Does the bilateral between Hong Kong and New Zealand permit CX to operate flights between AKL and points in South Amer
198 kiwiandrew : I am not too sure what beyond rights CX have but SCL wouldn't make a lot of sense for them since they already have that taken care of by LA.
199 SCL767 : CX could operate HKG-AKL-SCL 3x weekly in-cooperation with LA; thus SCL will have 10 weekly flights between both AKL and SYD, plus it would be SCL's
200 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Oh well, if Senor Cueto decides he wants LATAM to be in Star then maybe our partner airline will help us out with a slot or two
201 SCL767 : Of course LAN's management have visited NZ's top officials at AKL and both carriers plan on deploying the B-787-9s between AKL and South America. How
202 kiwiandrew : I am sure that if Star thought they could persuade LAN to join them they would happily rescind the invitation to AV/TA... but (a) I can't see LAN dec
203 zkojq : Potentially: Long haul: AKL-BOM via somewhere such as BNE or PER (I think this route may have been semi-announced by the Prime Minister a few years a
204 koruman : I can't see any of these happening while Fyfe is at the helm, although they all should. He has made clear that there will be no more one-stop routes
205 ZKOJH : Me thinks finally they might be heading to South America with one of the 2x 744's left, and I say one more for the Tasman route, is ROT-SYD really doi
206 A330NZ : I think that it's a real shame he said that I thought they should do CHC-BNE-NRT 763 WLG-BNE-HKG 763(landing in HKG in time to connect with the LHR f
207 sunrisevalley : This one is getting out towards the edges for the 77L . From a flight plan that SX1899 posted , westbound was pushing 19-hrs/8600nm ESAD. This ESAD i
208 Post contains images zkojq : If the new routes are long haul ones then that is what I would expect. Exactly, rather than cancelling HKG-LHR, Air New Zealand should be looking to
209 Post contains links 777ER : Its confirmed........ Air New Zealand keeps London run Air New Zealand has ruled out abandoning the London route and plans to start flying to new dest
210 cchan : Or perhaps they would retire these remaining 744s to save cost while cutbacks in LHR would free up 777 capacity?
211 aerorobnz : Given that they already have their maximum allocation for China, at least we know that it won't be there unless China change the rules.
212 gemuser : They do from Australia and I think they used to fly SYD/BNE - HKG (I know they did to SIN) so they probably do from HKG as well. Gemuser
213 SCL767 : Yes, CX can operate a HKG-AKL-SCL service. Similarly, both LAN and CX derive a lot of revenue from their respective cargo businesses. LAN and CX have
214 sunrisevalley : I doubt if it would be AKL-GRU-AKL. A hypothetical flight plan for GRU-AKL , on the day, showed an airways distance of 6556nm with a sector time of 1
215 777ER : If the claims about premium seating basically remaining empty for China flights then maybe its thank goodness NZ can't expand currently
216 ZKOJH : Finally have the top Brass been reading airliners.net for the answers, ?? that they need to expand to make money? lets hope it's not China, at the mom
217 aerorobnz : Those claims have been exaggerated. PVG in particular does equally well as HKG (with marginally more competitive fares) The Chinese like to pay large
218 koruman : At random: Friday 3 February: PVG-AKL availability shows as C4 D4 Z2 U7 E7 O7 A0 Friday 3 February: LAX-LHR availability shows as C2 D2 Z0 U6 E6 O5 A
219 aerorobnz : I use the NZ GDS system rather than a third party system, and I monitor and control international flights as they depart so I would respectfully say
220 koruman : Yep, you've got me there. (Although I'd wager that I've correctly interpreted the data for the two flights I cited!) By the way, you'll have noticed
221 kiwiandrew : The trouble with data on public GDS systems is that there is a lot of information which it doesn't show. In a previous job where my employer had a st
222 sunrisevalley : Does the New Zealand to India market have any potential superior yield associated with it or is it a repeat of the China- New Zealand market. There i
223 aerorobnz : My feeling is yes they should leave it to SQ/TG/CX/AI, I'm not convinced that it should be as high on NZs list as they perhaps think it should and it
224 koruman : I'm saving my reply for the next thread.......
225 kiwiandrew : I think the 77 services on the Tasman are necessary because they have the longhaul product. NZ needs Aussie travellers to make LAX/SFO/YVR work, and
226 aerorobnz : They would connect on the 763s, which are fitted with business class suitable for shorthaul.
227 koruman : But it's not shorthaul. I fly NZ135 AKL-BNE when I'm returning from North America. I exit the plane at 10 am and I go to work in the afternoon. The f
228 Post contains images aerorobnz : Personally I would rather see the 763 operate with BP seats. (they have a number from the recently retired 744s) and minus KIX they wouldn't need to
229 Post contains links koruman : That's a terrific idea. I don't know if you read http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/ .....but it's looking as if at present the 788 is actually
230 Post contains links cchan : Here you are. Please continue the discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 109 (by cchan Jan 25 2012 in Civil Aviation)
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