The day has finally come. Lufthansa has retired its first 744, D-ABVA, which, with more than 110.000 flight hours, will be dismantled. As always with old LH planes, I think the scrapping process is going to begin soon.
ebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 22096 times:
That's a lot of flight hours. Lufthansa definitely got their money's worth out of that airplane. How many more are scheduled to be retired this year?
steman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1275 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 22031 times:
Sad but inevitable.
If I am not wrong, the second one will be retired at the end of this month.
But in a couple of months, the first 747-830i will be delivered.
According to this website http://lh-taufnamen.de/lufthansa/ , LH will receive 5 B748i in 2012
I have also heard that some of the 744 will be refurbished, receiving a new C class as well as PTV in economy.
The process has already started but I don´t know how many LH intends to keep along with the 748s and A380s.
How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?
scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11358 posts, RR: 50 Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21947 times:
Quoting na (Thread starter): I think the scrapping process is going to begin soon.
Do you know where this will happen?
Quoting steman (Reply 3): How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9603 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21924 times:
Quoting steman (Reply 3):
Sad but inevitable.
If I am not wrong, the second one will be retired at the end of this month.
But in a couple of months, the first 747-830i will be delivered.
According to this website http://lh-taufnamen.de/lufthansa/ , LH will receive 5 B748i in 2012
I have also heard that some of the 744 will be refurbished, receiving a new C class as well as PTV in economy.
The process has already started but I don´t know how many LH intends to keep along with the 748s and A380s.
I dont know the exact number, but am sure the second batch of deliveries (1996-2001) will be kept for most of this decade, that is D-ABVM, D-ABVO - Z and D-ABTK and L. I herd rumours that a few planes from the first batch (1989-1992) will also be refurbished.
Quoting steman (Reply 3): How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?
Absolutely right. With the arrival of the 748I LH will have the most attractive longhaul fleet worldwide.
garpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2297 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21592 times:
Wow, 118,000 hours equates to 13 years in the air. And apart from the high number of hours, which makes it nigh impossible to sell on, I bet there is nothing wrong with D-ABVA.
No, still rumours... Some say short flights to have her back in FRA for many hours (DXB) or east coast US to do one destination with one frame... Others say: DEL, PVG, EZE, GRU...
ju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21337 times:
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 11): No, still rumours... Some say short flights to have her back in FRA for many hours (DXB) or east coast US to do one destination with one frame... Others say: DEL, PVG, EZE, GRU...
Thanks for that. I guess that they will not need to have familiarization flights since it's quite the same as the B744?
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7694 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 21249 times:
With LH's numerous fleet of larger long-range planes (24 A340-600's and with more A380-800's and 747-8i's arriving), their workhorse 747-400 fleet will soon head towards retirement and scrapping because many of those 744's have run up a lot of takeoff/landing cycles.
Don't be surprised that by 2017-2018, LH's larger long-range fleet will be A340-600's, 747-8i's and maybe as much as 25 A388's. LH could use more A388's, especially since the flights between SFO and FRA tend to be very full during high season even with the A388.
Which does remind me: has LH considered buying the A350-900 to eventually replace the A340-300 fleet?
robffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1094 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 21138 times:
Quoting na (Thread starter): The day has finally come. Lufthansa has retired its first 744, D-ABVA, which, with more than 110.000 flight hours, will be dismantled. As always with old LH planes, I think the scrapping process is going to begin soon.
I'm not sure whether this is the first 744 to be retired from service. I believe there was a similar thread two or three months ago.
Also the Lufthansa Magazine for November shows the number of 744 already as 28 (down from 30)
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9603 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 21115 times:
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 14): Don't be surprised that by 2017-2018, LH's larger long-range fleet will be A340-600's, 747-8i's and maybe as much as 25 A388's.
There is a lot that can happen before 2020, but technically the last LH 744s could fly until 2024 if they keep the current very high utilisation rate. Maybe the 748I will become a big success for LH and they convert their options, then I see the highest possibility that the remaining 744s might be sold a few years earlier than scheduled. Under normal circumstances I would expect that the second batch of LH 744s is being sold in 2019-21 (the youngest of them then still being able to serve a few years elsewhere like what happend when LH retired the 742 fleet in 2001).
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 14): Which does remind me: has LH considered buying the A350-900 to eventually replace the A340-300 fleet?
Considered? Certainly. But not acted. The only thing I read is that two 1993-built A340-300s will be sold this year.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10652 posts, RR: 100 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 20500 times:
Quoting steman (Reply 3): But in a couple of months, the first 747-830i will be delivered.
If only the 748I had been on time we would have had a 'natural rotation out of the fleet.'
Quoting robffm2 (Reply 15): Also the Lufthansa Magazine for November shows the number of 744 already as 28 (down from 30)
Who has the largest 744 fleet today?
How many 744s have been scrapped? LH, BA, NZ, and a few others have scrapped older examples that I can recall.
DesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 474 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20065 times:
Quoting na (Reply 5): I dont know the exact number, but am sure the second batch of deliveries (1996-2001) will be kept for most of this decade, that is D-ABVM, D-ABVO - Z and D-ABTK and L. I herd rumours that a few planes from the first batch (1989-1992) will also be refurbished.
I just flew on D-ABVN with the refurbished interior. VN was delivered in 1992, so definitely some of the older 744s are getting refurbished.
25 na: D-ABVA excluded, these are the 744s I know of which have been or are currently being dismantled: AF: 3 or 4 QF: 2 BA: 1 or 2 NZ: 1 (a second one will
27 SEPilot: I believe it is BA; don't they have about 50 of them?
28 mikey72: Peaking at 57 aircraft and currently standing at 52 aircraft in active service the British Airways Boeing 747-400 passenger fleet was and is the larg
29 MSPNWA: Sad to hear even though we all new the last day was coming soon for D-ABVA. It wasn't the longest 744 life, but it certainly was a fulfilling one. Now
30 seabosdca: And to think it got there in only 21 years. A great career. These will no doubt be kept until they accumulate 100,000+ hours as well, which would put
31 HBIHLtoEZE: Fare well, D-ABVA, sad to see those 80s 744 go... Lufthansa Boeing 747-400; D-ABVA@FRA;09.07.2010 by Aero Icarus, on Flickr
32 na: 22 years 7 months to be exakt. Delivery was in May 1989.
33 dtw757: One of the first routes flown by LH for the 744 in 1989 was FRA-HAM. It was one of my options for my trip to HAM that year but I ended up flying TWA i
34 SEPilot: I happened to see one of the very first 744's just after it entered service; I was flying NW and was at DTW (I was probably going to a GM plant about
35 holzmann: Sources close to me indicate that LH will bring the 747-8i to IAD by this summer.
36 tonymctigue: One answer to that question. You can't (unless you're an environmental nut that is convinced that the less than 2% of global emissions that the airpl
37 SEPilot: You can if you are someone who actually studies accident statistics and realizes that, based on history, twins are actually safer than 4-holers.
38 bennett123: Na I think that Air France is 3, (F-GITA/B/C at Kemble in 2011). F-GEXA is at Kemble and looks set to join them shortly.
39 AndrewUber: Considering the cost in 1989 was between $52-$58 million (let's estimate high at $60 million green), with 120,000 flight hours - the cost of ownership
40 na: Only if you unfairly include Oldies like the 707 or 747 Classics. The only fair direct comparison (same age, same size) can be made between the A340
41 seabosdca: Not so; you can compare "modern" widebodies more broadly than that. On the quad side, you have the 744, all A340s, and the A380. On the twin side, yo
42 American 767: Yes it is BA, that I am sure. Although JAL had at one time the largest fleet of 747s of all variants (they have flown all variants except the SP), BA
43 B747forever: That is only logical as they have twice the number of engines and therefore twice the chance for a engine failure.
44 SEPilot: The comparison I did was finding all of the engine caused crashes (engine malfunction or engines falling off) for jet transports going back to the be
45 tonymctigue: That's a small bit misleading though in that four holers have been around alot longer than twins and of course were around in the pioneering days of
46 bennett123: tonymctigue You might like to read reply 38 again.
48 ikramerica: It's also loaded because so many 747s were targeted by bombs/shot down compared to other types. Then there is the Azores accident that had nothing to
49 cmf: Only people with their head in the sand will try to make an issue about efficiency in to a poor argument about environmental impact.
50 warden145: FWIW I did a search through the photo database, and here are two pics I found: The first pic is the oldest LH 747-430 pic that showed up, of D-ABVB f
51 tonymctigue: That is very much the point I was making. There are people who think tha airplanes should no engines at all and that the world would work perfectly f
52 na: Right, thanks for pointing it out. A single engine failure on a modern Quad is in most cases much less of a problem than a single engine failure on a
54 CRJ900: Is that all? One aircraft in our fleet is pushing 70,000 cycles and still doing 8 legs a day. The fuselage is creaking during take-off, though... Ama
55 LH498: Sad to see this fine lady go. To get a little sentimental : She did not only serve Lufthansa very well all these years, she also represented the compa
56 4tet: I do think that 4 holers have some looooong future ahead... But of course only in the biggest planes, I cannot imagine an A380 or a 747 with only two
57 AR385: And to think that almost a year ago I flew D-ABVA MEX-FRA. It did look immaculate.
58 ZKEOJ: Was that list price? I have an LH flyer from 1990, and it states that the B744 is about $US 120 million...? Cheers micha
59 flylku: So if I understand this correctly, she spent 5624 hours taxing to/from the gate and in the blocks waiting to takeoff! When you consider a normal work
60 seabosdca: Meh... not that hard a problem. The 777-9X as contemplated today (if with the stretch) will carry the same number of passengers as a 747-400, and mor
61 Vimanav: are these still seen from the FG and AG entries? brgds//Vimanav
62 AndrewUber: The source I saw was an old Boeing doc, and that is in 1989 dollars. 747 prices have gone up steadily since then obviously, and it is also noteworthy
63 WingedMigrator: And only about 198,240 hours have elapsed since she was delivered. Spent more time in the air than on the ground since 1989. This is one of the thing
64 Jettravel: Farewell D-ABVA. A 380 will bear the name "Berlin" out to the world in future, too.
65 tonymctigue: Without being an aircraft designer, I would imagine that in the past with the materials and technologies available, there was an upper size limit (i.
66 ogre727: Oh no! what sad news... this was my first 747-400 ride ever! Routing was SCL-EZE-FRA... I remember getting the window seat with no window, but moving
67 SEPilot: The limiting factor for twinjets is engine size; most authorities I have seen say the practical maximum size for current technology is 150,000 lbs th
68 tonymctigue: Thank you for your insight. It pretty much answers a question I've had for quite a while now. Seeing as we are on the topic of engine numbers, didn't
69 IRISH251: D-ABVA was delivered in the current livery. It came to Shannon for crew training in early June 1989 and spent a day or two flying circuits. KLM's fir
70 SEPilot: Yes, they did. I have no doubt they have investigated flying carpets as well. It never got beyond the conceptual stage. Just as two is the ideal numb
71 Flying Belgian: I remember the ad campaign of Boeing/Lufthansa "we helped to build it" back in 1989 in National Geographic magazine. These Boeing are solids like rock
72 na: Possibly yes, but maintenance cost is the killer for old 744s that have reached the end of the "normal" life and need a "D++"-check. I wouldnt wonder
73 747400sp: Wow, I remember when LH was flying 742s, and was replacing them with 744s. It is crazy to see 744s getting retired, because I remember back in the lat
74 lijnden: I always thought that D-ABTA was older than the D-ABVA?
75 PanHAM: D-ABVA came into the fleet 05/89 and D-ABTA 09/89 VB 09/89 VC 10/89 TB 12/89
76 wolbo: Noticed that the first four KLM 744s are also from 1989. Does KLM have any plans to replace them? Not that I would want them to (unless they are being
77 Ronaldo747: Farewell "Victor Alpha" .. you did your job just great! The cycle/hours numbers of PH-BFA would be interesting, just for comparision.[Edited 2012-01-0
78 Viscount724: I would also include KLM in that category. I'm always impressed how clean KL keeps their aircraft, inside and out. Even the inside of the overhead bi
79 n471wn: KL and LH are superior when it comes to not only how they maintain their widebody fleets but also how they properly plan to fly these proud birds to
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