GBLKD From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2011, 345 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6606 times:
I've flown FR but only for day trips or overnight stays and have never thought they were bad as such, I just play by the rules and only give Mr O Leary the minimum amount of cash.
TCX on the other hand. As a family we usually use Thomas Cook for our holidays and have to use them if we're going to Malta for instance but wherever possible I try to get us on Monarch flights which when going out to the Algarve is easy. I just find the MON experience to be better than TCX, thier A321s are more comfortable and have a little bit more legroom than the sardine can config on the TCX 752s. I don't know how good they are now but delays on TCX seemed to be the norm while with MON they don't happen as often.
Just how I've found them from a customer's point of view.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18834 posts, RR: 54 Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6590 times:
Such things make me chuckle: while FR is frequently the bottom or close thereto in these ratings, it is nevertheless the top or thereabouts regarding all-important profit. Logically, you would assume that badly rated airline - by service or whatever - would generate the least profit. Thus, I would happily be rated badly if I continually made excellent profit.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2696 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6487 times:
I think it has to do with expectations. Many don't know what to expect on Thomas Cook, but just about everyone knows what to expect on FR, and some probably believe that they have to pay to use the lavatory, and are pleasantly surprised!
kl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4977 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6482 times:
Why do people rate FR bad? You know what you get for such a cheap ticket. People always amaze me. I personnaly liked my seat, my food, the internet checkin and most of all....the fare paid. MAD - ACE return, 6 hours flying, 60euro incl all charges.
" The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares." Michael O'Leary
dangould2000 From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6017 times:
Quoting kl911 (Reply 6): Why do people rate FR bad? You know what you get for such a cheap ticket. People always amaze me. I personnaly liked my seat, my food, the internet checkin and most of all....the fare paid. MAD - ACE return, 6 hours flying, 60euro incl all charges.
Those that rate FR badly usually do so because they Expect way more in the way of service than they recieve and/or they simply don't play by the rules and try to be smart with luggage/check-in/carry-ons/excess/etc.
I'm not in the FR game anymore, but from memory the average fare paid across the network was €35 one way, then people get onboard and are shocked to get onboard and 'discover' that they need to pay for food and beverages.
Hell i paid less for flights on a trip routing PIK-STN-LPA-EDI booking a passenger ticket with FR than i just paid for BA LHR-GLA-LHR with staff travel discount.
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5704 times:
If Thomas Cook is coming below Ryanair in this kind of survey then they have to be worried. Ryanair has a shoddy customer service reputation but they've never pretended to be anything but cheap and cheerful, you get what you pay for. Thomas Cook on the other hand are a charter airline and they are carrying people who have potentially paid a few thousand for their Thomas Cook holiday, if the flight is rubbish then it doesn't reflect well on the rest of the experience.
dazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5619 times:
Personally, I find TCX fine. I've flown them short, medium and long haul and would hapilly fly with them tomorrow. I think those that have mentioned expectations have it right. Seat pitch is actually the same as most other charter airlines on comparable aircraft, including Thomson and Monarch. The 763's were tight on legroom though. I've flown on all of TCX's aircraft types over the years and odd airframes are starting to show their age inside, but they are fine generally. Cabin crews have always been great in my experience and the flight deck informative. Punctuality has been ok, one or two deleys but nothing major. While they may not be what they once were, I wouldn't rate them as poor, more average.
Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
groobster From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 309 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5555 times:
I saw the topic title and knew immediately it would be a Daily Mail story. They hate Ryanair for some reason and like to get a dig in at any opportunity.
jumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2814 times:
Interesting stuff...
I've flown with both, Ryanair was fine, Thomas Cook was a nightmare! Ryanair from Stanstead to Skavsta, Sweden (£40 return) and Thomas Cook from Birmingham to Izmir, Turkey (£325 return).
It was a shame that both sets of cabin crew were as miserable as sin, after all it doesn't cost anything for these people to smile and mean it occasionally does it?
The Thomas Cook B757-200 seemed a bit cramped and our problems with the trip seemed to simply be caused by bloody-minded staff. Even though we checked in early, our group of 3 adults and 4 children were scattered around the cabin, I guess because we hadn't paid the additional fee to allow us to sit together. As we had children, I'd wrongly assumed we'd be able to do this anyway. Wrong! I have no doubt whatsoever that we were deliberately split up.
We'd paid for the hot meals in advance and when these were being distributed, my wife pointed the crew member in my direction, she was at the back, I was down the front. I was asked to dig out the original paperwork relating to this which was something of a nightmare, given the fact that the plane was full and there wasn't much space to manouvre. In front of the other passengers I was made to feel as if we were trying to steal these meals, it was all very embarrassing. It wasn't a pleasant trip at all.
With the Ryanair flights, we knew exactly what to expect, it was clean, efficient and on time. We'd certainly do that one again, whereas the Thomas Cook experience was overpriced, miserable, inefficent and a complete disaster. Never again!
Funnily enough, we had very simipar problems flying back from Sydney to Heathrow with Qantas this Summer. Despite having our seat numbers in the A380 Premium Economy cabin booked together 11 months in advance, our family group of 2 adults and 2 children were told at check in at Sydney that there was a problem and they's deal with it at the gate. We were then held back at boarding for 25 minutes whilst other passengers streamed past until they were about to close the doors. We then were given different seats all over the place and walking on board with hundreds of other passengers looking at us as if we were late, (we weren't) was not a pleasant experience. My wife was really upset by it as it seemed we weren't going to get on board at all.
We feel that Qantas really let us down and couldn't have cared less. Why can't airlines get things right?
We've never, ever had a problam with Ryanair though!
GT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1724 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2493 times:
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 14): We feel that Qantas really let us down and couldn't have cared less. Why can't airlines get things right?
Your TCX flight didn't seem to be the best experience but with QF......it just seems to be more of an issue that was beyond their control. Sometimes accommodating xxx amount of passengers isn't always as easy and logical as it seems. I'm sure that QF hadn't particularly got something wrong but more like a circumstance arose. (covers a multitude of issues from a last minute stretcher case right down to something mundane such as ensuring there isn't too many infants in one block of seats-for O2) As bad as it may sound, your seating requirements wasn't top priority. I think you boarding last and worried people thought you were late is more paranoia (sorry) on your part.... especially on a widebody.
It's hard to just shrug off a passengers bad experience but more often than not there is usually a good reason for it. Does it make it right? It really does depend on the reason but again you will find that most employee's will do their best to please everyone given any set of circumstances or scenario. Those who work in the industry will often tell you that pleasing everyone on a aircraft is an impossible challenge.
Other posters have it more or less spot on. Ryanair, for all their faults, manage peoples expectations and this goes a long way. A similar example, if less extreme, is Easyjet and we have our days where circumstances throw various challenges and however well we deal with them not everyone is entirely happy.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3808 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1862 times:
FR are like the Penny's / Primark of the high street. It's classic pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap. Both can be a bit like a zoo, at times and the branding is not always bang on, but more often than not the stores are clean and the price is right / the flights are on time, the aircraft are acceptable and the price is right. Overall quality and experience is not class leading at either, but both are perceived as good value and doing exactly what they promise, at a rock bottom price. They are cheap, but not particularly nasty. The number of people that go back to both and their profitability proves it.
TCX on the other hand appear not to be cheap, but they do appear to be nasty. The falling numbers say a lot about their business. Their mounting losses even more. Of course TCX is not entirely to blame, some of it will be due to Thomas Cook Holidays as well. It would seem the glossy TC brochures promise a bit more than they can deliver.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
clydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1715 times:
Ryanair have low fares and punctual flights, these are two of the biggest customer requirements.
People on A-net put far too much emphasis on on-board service and product, and while some customers will pay for this the vast majority will go for the Airline that delivers the top 2 customer requirements , price and punctuality.
With Ryanair, they make it very clear what they are and you get what you pay for.
I guess with Thomas Cook, the actual experience is way off the expectation of the customer. Maybe the Image,Marketing,Brand,Legacy is not clear and giving false expectations. Or maybe just a problem with service delivery.
FriendlySkiesUK From UK - England, joined Jul 2011, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1710 times:
Maybe they should have just kept Caledonian Airways – while toward the end there was some massive delays on their flights, CKT was much better then JMC/Thomas Cook...
I am pleased to see that LX have done so well, I fly with them a lot on both short and long haul and I love their business and first class brands, very understated which it should be
jumpjet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1616 times:
Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 15): It's hard to just shrug off a passengers bad experience but more often than not there is usually a good reason for it. Does it make it right? It really does depend on the reason but again you will find that most employee's will do their best to please everyone given any set of circumstances or scenario. Those who work in the industry will often tell you that pleasing everyone on a aircraft is an impossible challenge.
Agreed! But it would make life so much easier if they actually told us what the problem might be. Wouldn't that help us to understand it? If you look at almost everyone's difficulties with delays etc is a general lack of communication...
GT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1724 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1462 times:
Quoting jumpjet (Reply 22): Agreed! But it would make life so much easier if they actually told us what the problem might be. Wouldn't that help us to understand it? If you look at almost everyone's difficulties with delays etc is a general lack of communication...
Why ever they didn't tell you why will remain a mystery. I don't know why they didn't but you will find that most employee's, like in most industries, will give an explanation. If anything it helps placate the customer although some will say it's an excuse. Again you can't please everyone.
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 20): People on A-net put far too much emphasis on on-board service and product, and while some customers will pay for this the vast majority will go for the Airline that delivers the top 2 customer requirements , price and punctuality.
Absolutely, I couldn't have put it better. I work for a LCC (and champion it's product by and large) but long haul I enjoy taking full service and flights away from my work place. I enjoy the service but some on here go into orgasmic fibrillation when they are given a complimentary drink and a cheese roll that is ultimately being paid for in the price of the ticket. On a short haul basis legacy fares have become competitive due to the LCC's but despite what many a.netters would argue more often than not the LCC's are cheaper than their full service counterparts and that saving ultimately attracts the punters.
connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 922 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 10): Seat pitch is actually the same as most other charter airlines on comparable aircraft, including Thomson and Monarch
Not just the "seat pitch" but everything related to passenger's SEAT COMFORT on long-haul charters of 9-10 hours plays heavy on many people's decisions to chose them as opposed to a legacy carrier operating newer aircraft fitted with latest ergonomic seating technology. I remember flying on a B767 Condor on a premium economy labeled seat where I had to exchange many elbows with my seat neighbor whenever we turned sides, during meals or simply trying to dig something out of our small bags stored underneath each others front seat. During long flights you constantly have to turn sides because of nonexistent seat-cushion and your sideways leaning angles can't be altered due to seat's scarce pitch and stingy narrowness.
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