Latinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2636 posts, RR: 15 Posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2334 times:
HE IS OFFERING his backyard, in Mexico. His idea is simply to put San Diego’s next airport literally on the spot where California meets the Mexican state of Baja California, some 20 miles southeast of San Diego’s tiny Lindbergh Field. It is being taken seriously on both sides of the border.
In effect, Mr. Nieders is proposing North America’s first truly “international” airport, a facility shared by the U.S. and Mexico. U.S. airlines would relocate into new terminals on the California side of the site, alongside new restaurants and rental-car counters; Mexican airlines and services would stay put on the Mexico side. The airport’s runways, maintenance hangars and fuel storage tanks — and the clutter and the noise — also would remain in Mexico.
Understandably, San Diego officials like these features and so are considering Tijuana among possible airport sites. “We all know Lindbergh Field can’t handle the traffic,” says Michael Hix, senior transportation planner for Sandag, the city’s association of county and municipal governments. The airport “makes a lot of sense.”
Ernesto Ruffo, Mexican President Vicente Fox’s newly appointed “border czar,” says Mr. Nieders’s plan for a binational airport plan is a top priority. In addition to the noise, Mexico stands to reap a windfall of at least $100 million in annual runway and scheduling fees from Mexican and U.S. airlines, a sum it could never hope to earn serving Tijuana alone.
Costing between $50 million and $100 million to cover land, access roads and the terminal itself, the binational airport would be a bargain compared with other airports’ billion-dollar price tags. The reason it is possible is that the Mexican half is already in place. Tijuana’s General Abelardo Rodriguez International Airport — Mexico’s fourth largest, with 3.5 million passengers annually, most of them U.S.-bound — lies just 10 yards from the U.S.-Mexico line. Its main runway runs along 2,000 feet of border fence.
Mr. Nieders, a 47-year-old architect and son of a Norwegian immigrant to Mexico, powers up a computer-generated version of his cross-border vision. Satellite-view photos and artists’ renderings reveal a new terminal whose chief function would be to funnel U.S. passengers briefly into Mexico to board planes sitting on runways there. Ticket counters, baggage handling and security for U.S. passengers would stay in the U.S. A pedestrian bridge, accessible only to ticketed passengers, would take them via moving sidewalk over the border.
The two governments would probably insist on putting a combined immigration-customs checkpoint on the bridge, to handle passengers traveling on domestic U.S. flights. International passengers would continue to pass through immigration and customs posts just as they do now. As for control of contraband and illegal immigrants, Mr. Nieders says the border crossing would be entirely indoors and as easy to police as that at any international airport where passengers change planes.
Mr. Nieders consults with the managers of Tijuana’s airport, Grupo Aeroportuario del Pacifico SA, the Spanish-run consortium that won a 25-year concession to operate Mexico’s western airports in a 1999 privatization. The Spaniards thought enough of Mr. Nieders’s plan that they made him their point man for marketing.
Lindbergh Field itself is probably the best argument for a border airport. Passengers last year numbered 16 million, more than five times the Tijuana airport’s traffic. Virtually within walking distance of downtown San Diego, the once-remote airfield has been swallowed by an expanding city.
Opened the year after Charles Lindbergh’s historic trans-Atlantic flight in 1928, Lindbergh Field sits on a 500-acre pocket of land, hemmed in by a Navy base on one side and some of the West Coast’s priciest homes on the others. Its single runway is too short for the latest generation of jumbo jets. Its two parking lots are so cramped that visitors arriving after 9 a.m. often find that the spaces are all taken.
San Diego planners have been searching for a decade for a new airport location within county limits. Community activists have lobbied to keep it away from the wealthy neighborhoods of Mission Hills and La Jolla. Two other possible sites — the old U.S. Navy air station at Miramar and land adjacent to the Marine Corps’ Camp Pendleton — share a different obstacle: more than 10,000 rounds of unexploded shells lying just below ground level, a dangerous and expensive problem to remove.
Mexican officials have proposed letting California use their airspace before, but the idea languished amid anti-immigrant sentiment. Then the 1994 peso collapse put most border infrastructure plans on hold. Since then, commerce between the Californias has surged to $20 billion a year under the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement. Businesses on both sides are clamoring for more air-cargo capacity.
Mr. Nieders’s binational terminal leaves much of the revenue-generating potential in the U.S. The more lucrative parking, restaurants, car-rental agencies and shops would be in San Diego — activity that could raise an estimated $25 million in payroll, property and sales taxes annually for the city, according to forecasts by San Diego’s port authority.
Mexico has something else San Diego needs: unused landing rights for Asian carriers arriving from across the Pacific. Those rights would entitle U.S. flights departing from a border airport to land in Tokyo, Seoul, South Korea, and Taipei, Taiwan — something they can’t do now from Lindbergh Field’s short runway.
Lindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3073 posts, RR: 15 Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
I would say that this is ABSOLUTELY the best option for San Diego given the obstacles at other sites. Although I realize that a border airport is not the most convenient location for many San Diegans, it faces less opposition from locals concerned about noise. It would also be much, much less expensive to construct, and would symbolize the increasing interdependence of San Diego and Tijuana. For us spotters, there would be a great combination of Mexican and American aviation--if the architects could be convinced of the necessity of an observation deck... I also think that a combined airport would do well to attract more international flights.
Lindbergh Field should be kept open for Southwest and a strictly limited number of long-distance flights, sort of like Reagan National in DC or London City.
Can somebody better explain why this idea is attracting renewed attention? Is Mr. Nieders the owner of a substantial amount of land on the border? Is it just that he's decided to cash in by offering his land for sale?
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2397 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2180 times:
Finally, they think globally.
San Diego needs a new international airport and the planning needs to be done this year. I will go for the bi-national airport as the best option.
Airlines will have their nationals working for them. That means, AeroMexico, Mexicana, Azteca, etc. will use Mexican staff for their flights. US Airlines can keep US personnel for their flights.
Although a lot of regulationa has to be done in order to get the airport to work, I go for this option.
Rlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 996 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2172 times:
They have stolen my idea!!!
Actually, we were driving to Brown field and the road goes right by TIJ. We were in the U.S. but the airport is right on the border and you have a good view of the planes from the road.
That was the exact conversation we were having while driving by. We agreed that the airport would one day be for both countries.
Jhawk29 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2167 times:
You know, in the southern Israeli city of Eilat and the souther Jordanian city of Aqaba, they were going to build an airport with two terminals on either side of the border and then have a runway that goes down the border with half of the runway being in Jordan and the other half being in Israel. This idea was cut out because of the costs and the conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
Johnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2477 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2154 times:
I've always thought this was an intriguing idea. Alas, the devil's in the details and this is no exception. I'm not sure I understand everything here. I've been past this airport several times, having lived in San Diego County a few years ago.
It's very close to the Otay Mesa int'l border crossing point, which was/is being upgraded for NAFTA truck traffic. So the potential highway links are there. it wouldn't be too much trouble to extend the San Diego Trolley over to that area, with a branch somewhere off the San Ysidro line. That helps even more.
I don't understand the int'l checkpoint situation. Would ALL departing and arriving US passenger have to go thru some type of Customs checkpoint? That sounds so inconvenient if so. I also doubt that the other airlines making a leap down to Otay Mesa would appreciate Southwest getting Lindbergh Field all to themselves. Sounds like an "all or nothing" proposal to me.
I don't think you'd have to worry about North County people if this scenario came to fruition. Those rabid John Birch'ers would never travel to Mexico to take a flight anyway.
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5130 posts, RR: 53 Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2131 times:
I really don´t agree with this idea... The US comming to our country, use advantage of our Airport, in few years the build of another rwy..., this would be great to us because the beneffits, will be just great.. more money to our Country.. etc.. but I just don´t get it..
Yesterday all most, all day long I decided to check past posts... I read the Topics " What´s the worst City in the World " I´m pretty shure some came up to the conclusion that was Tijuana, Mex!... Or some conclude that water here is not clean!! OF course it´s clean what you can´t do as in America it´s to drink it.. that all.. So I think if they don´t like our country, if they don´t like our City, why they come up with the idea to place a " truly internacional airport here".
CONCLUSION: TIJUANA IS NOT ALL THAT YOU CAN SEE OR SAY ABOUT MEXICO !!!
Well in my personal opinion the expand or new construction to what be the Internacional airport in the MEX/US Border, it would be great!! And the Asian flights more than great!!
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
SR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 760 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2118 times:
I like the idea, I wonder though, the idea has been thrown around so many times that I'm just a bit unsure if anything will materialize in the end, however, seeing that Ernesto Ruffo and the new airport authority seem to be activeley pursuing it gives me more confidence that maybe things are more serious now.
To Ghost 77, yes there are some people with negative opinions about Tijuana, but not just from the US, but from within Mexico also. If this border region wants to grow and be more dynamic, we're gonna have to start working together on the regions biggest problems and do away with the "the gringos are out to get us" or similar mentalities, they just don't belong in the picture anymore. So I am glad and hopeful that this project will one day be a reality, it would be nice to see more airplane traffic here
Latinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2636 posts, RR: 15 Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2115 times:
So what exactly are you trying to say Ghost77? Are you in favor or against it? You sound like you are neither/ nor!
Of course, Tijuana is one of the worst cities there is. It's horribly planned out. It's no Paris of the Americas. If Mexicans in Mexico think that way of TJ then what do you expect of other people of different countries to say. And all you have to do is take off from Tijuana's airport and then land in another city like Monterrey, Guadalajara or Leon to see the difference in the way that these other city centers have been properly planned out. It's a shame that a city which is located next to the 7th largest economy in the world (California) be so poor and underdeveloped. But what reasons and who's problem is that? Not the Americans to say the least! By the way, my family has a house in TJ.
But just because it is, that doesn’t mean that it always has to be that way. If the proper things are done to create a better standard of living for the citizens, the city can be well on it’s way to becoming the next Hong Kong of the future. Hong Kong was once as poor but thanks to great government (The British) and the Chinese entrepreneurial spirit, Hong Kong has an enormous amount of wealth. Who says this can’t be done in Mexico? I sometimes see some Mexicans thinking this way and it’s very upsetting to tell you the truth!
My God, if I was the governor of Baja California norte/sur, I'd make it my personal goal to make out of TJ, the next Las Vegas of the world. With the proceed that would be collected from Tax paying Casino's .I'd invest it right back in the city, properly creating the right infrastructure to spur economic development which would increase the standard of living that is very much needed in this part of the world.
The idea of building the airport in Mexico would not only benefit Americans, whom have to deal with the “not in my backyard” slogan of building airports, but Mexico would truly be the one to reap the most benefits as jobs would instantly be created from day one not just to built the infrastructure but to maintain the economic growth that the airport will bring to Mexico’s side of the deal.
Mexicans in that part of the country (Baja California) are well prepared to make it a more unified global society. Education is different in this part of Mexico. All students are trained to read and write in English as it’s their second tongue. I personally know some people from Tijuana who can read and write English better than some Americans kids I’ve seen on this forum. So they know that the right thing to do is to think open-mindedly because their future depends on a stronger North American economy/society.
SR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 760 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2105 times:
Aww come on Apollo, I'm sure that if there was a competition for Mexico's dumpiest city we would have plenty of competition ! Reynosa, Matamoros, and Cd. Juarez ain't no gems either.
I honestly think it's a bit unfair to compare Tijuana to Guadalajara, Monterrey or Mexico City, why? Well the reason is simple, those cities as well as most other places down south were established long ago, more than 400 years ago, and the place where Tijuana sits was virtually empty 100 years ago, there was an original plan for the city, however the large ammount of internal migration from poor states down south totally exceded those plans, and it's been the problem plaguing the city ever since. The government can barely cope with the large influx of immigrants coming every day, because we have a pretty crappy budget, there is too little money to go around, we generate a lot of tax revenue, however all that money goes to Mexico City and we only see a fraction of that money back. So the local government pretty much has it's hands tied and tries to manage running such a problem ridden city with so little money.
However as you say, education standards in the region are very high, the region is a goldmine of potential oportunities just waiting to be exploited, let's hope the binational airport is one of them.
Johnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2477 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
I agree that Mexico (la ciudad) has long captured the money available in Mexico (la republica). In a way it's like Paris with the rest of France -- it's the heart, if not quite the soul of the rest of the country.
That being said, corruption and drug-dealing, I'm afraid, are also handicapping Tijuana today. I hate to say that this is ingrained within the power structure of society, but I believe it is. This would present a real problem to deal with, with respect to a bi-national airport.
But....it sounds much more "do-able" than other plans that have been bandied about. As I've argued before in other posts, San Diego needs to look south for their destiny, not north towards Hell Ay. They've always argued for Asian nonstops, abra-cadabra, there they are!
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5130 posts, RR: 53 Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
Well, my answear is that I`m in favor with the Bi-National airport.. but I`m also against, what I`m really trying to said is that some people complain to much about MY country specially TJ!! And I think is not fair, to come to us and get to an agreement of something when they just want.. or need.. hope you understood me..
En cuanto al Aeropuerto y la expansiòn serìa mas que una estupenda idea.. asi como hacer crecer Tijuana en muchos aspectos asi como mas ingresos y favorecer tanto a los usuarios del Aeropuerto tanto de SAN como TIJ.. lo que no se me hace justo que en posts anteriores que ayer leì, se quejan mucho de las ciudades y del paìs.. asì que lo que no entiendo es que primero se quejan de nuestro paìs y ahora quieren hacer uso de Tij..
Espero me haya esplicado Latin..
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2397 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2072 times:
TIJ is quite a mess for a City, but I really think that a lot can be done if money from the bi-national airport gets to Baja California´s government. We need to improve our border cities and the only way we can do it is to get more taxes. Matamoros, Reynosa and Nuevo Laredo have been upgrading their infraestructure. Last month I was in Matamoros and you can see improvements to the downtown streets, two new hotels were built and hopefully it will keep growing with the "Maquiladoras" when the US economic slowdown ends. Unfortunatelly there are a lot of poor people in Mexico that want to go to the US to get a better way of life and they fly to TIJ, CDJ, MAM, REX to try to cross the border. We will have to deal with that until more jobs are created and they get better payment.
California has to understand that a bi-national airport will mean less money to invest in the infraestructure and in the people building it. Although it is hard to say, mexican wages are cheaper than US and that means lower costs. Asian flights is another benefit, so there are many benefits and I think that a solution to the problems the bi-national airport will create, can be worked out.
Lets see what happends, but first I will like to see a decision on the new Mexico City Airport, because dealing with the one we have today is very difficult.
Trvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2069 times:
I don't think the local media has given too much print space lately updating Mr. Nieders and his plans, so it's good that the Wall Street Journal (the article Rojo posted is from the WSJ by the way) gave him and Grupo Aeroportuario del Pacifico SA some coverage. There wasn't much mentioned in the article that we didn't know before, (although I had thought that the operators had only gotten route authority to Tokyo, and not Taipei and Seoul as well, which is good) however, it's nice to see that this plan hasn't run into any problems.
What will really be interesting to see is how this new proposed regional planning agency in San Diego (has it been created yet? And if not, when will it be??) will react to and cooperate with the plans for a binational airport. So far this is the most well-rounded option for San Diego, being the quickest and easiest one to pursue. If it does go through, some questions will be raised, however. First of all, what will become of Lindbergh field? It is obviously going to have to stay open, as the airlines would raise hell if they were forced to move their entire operation 20 miles south. The most logical solution to this problem is a limit on and then auction of the remaining, currently unused slots at Lindbergh. A route distance radius, akin to those now in place at LaGuardia and Reagan, would not be a good idea. This is because a rule like this presents more potential problems for a city in California than it would on the east coast, considering the inherent distance from San Diego the United States east of the Mississippi River, where over 75% percent of the country's population and wealth is concentrated. An airline like USAirways, that only serves destinations from SAN that are over 2000 miles away, would most likely be automatically barred from operating at SAN, drastically limiting the airline's attractiveness for people intending to travel on it for any other reason besides O&D traffic to the hubs.
Of course, one does not need to seriously regard this question until plans for a bi-national airport have been finalized. Myself, I think that before anything TIJ should construct some sort of bi-national cargo facility, as if you really look at the problem closely, you will find that the restrictions San Diego's current air cargo capacity are much more severe than on its passenger capacity.
Mac From United States of America, joined May 2001, 293 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
My wish is this: I wish that somehow both Brown Field and Rodreguis International could be combined into one big international airport site. Brown Field has been sitting in its location doing practically nothing except for some general aircraft activity since the end of world war two. And all of that ten thousand foot main runway going to waste. I have no idea how a merge of the two could be planned.
Jumbojettim From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 193 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2038 times:
Last year the residents of S.D. voted for an expansion for Brown Field, whether it actually happens remains to be seen.
If a bi-national airport actually is built someday, I could picture all cargo and international flights going in and out of this new airport, with all domestic flights remaining at Lindbergh. SAN has to much invested at this airport for it to be closed for good.
What do you think?
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5130 posts, RR: 53 Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2025 times:
I think there would be A National side and the Internacional side.. If American arrives it would take a gate in the National side as some Mexican Airlines will be there too, and if BA arrives you might find it on the Internacional.. that´s what I think.
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
Lindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3073 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2014 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
I agree that a bi-national cargo facility should be a priority. Let the planes land at "Binational" and let local vehicles carry the cargo to destinations north and south of the border.
I don't really see a problem with trying to limit most of Lindbergh's flights to those within a certain radius or those of highest popularity. How else would you convince/compel the other airlines to move their operations? Flights to LAX, LAS, SFO, PHX should be available from Lindbergh as well as a handful to hub airports. Let the rest of the flights operate from the new Bicoastal Airport.
Trlvr: I can't help but NOT sympathize with your US Airways example since they once had an inter-California network.
I don't think combining Brown and TIJ would work. Aren't they too far apart?
I don't think Lindbergh should be closed. Too much potential as an airport for business passengers, etc.
Tijuana IS an ugly city, but it's one which can rebuild itself when the financial situation is better. Believe me, it's happened in Berlin and Warsaw and other European cities. Warsaw was rebuilt after WWII, under terrible conditions. It was necessary to rebuild quickly to house all the homeless, so many of the buildings constructed in the late 1940s and early 1950s were unattractive but functional. Since the mid-1990s, as Poland's economy has developed, many of the older postwar buildings have been demolished and newer, more attractive buildings have been raised. The same can happen in Tijuana. I personally think that the US government should provide more aid and assistance to Mexico and should promote more crossborder trade, cooperation, and contacts. Can't wait for some Mexican teams in the NBA...
Sorry not to write in greater detail, but I'll expand on any of these opinions if anyone is interested.
North County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2004 times:
This idea has been talked about for almost 20 years and the major problem then as it is now is that the population center of San Diego County is moving NORTH not south toward the border. If they build the border airport and restricted flights out of Lindbergh then the closest airport for domestic flights for some of the residents in North San Diego County would be John Wayne airport in Orange County. You also have to consider the fact that Orange County is also dealing with the need for a new/expanded airport. The new airport will need to draw international travelers from South Orange County in addition to San Diego County. The future of any new international airport will be miles north of Downtown San Diego not to the south.
American Citizens want to use U.S. government regulated options when it comes to transportation issues. This is not a John Bircher statement, but a fact. When American Citizens go to Mexico they don’t drive past the border because they understand that the law and culture are different then in the United States. Take that to an even higher level with air travel and you see why an airport in/shared with Mexico is a long shot. This has nothing to do with TJ being a great or cesspool of a city; it has to do with people’s conception of safety. This prevailing attitude may someday change but it will take at 20-30 years at least and a new airport can’t wait that long.
The County of San Diego someday could be split into separate counties. In North County there is already talk of forming a new county out of the section from Del Mar north. I am sure the Central portion of San Diego County would not want to lose the northern (affluent and less densely populated) section. North County is the future of the San Diego area. The Central section would not want to be left to subsidize the Southern section. The border airport issue would become a rallying cry for the North County to split. If you find this idea far fetched then look at the San Fernando Valley City issue to the north in L.A. More affluent areas pay more taxes and if they feel they are not receiving the proper representation then they will vote to split off and form their own city/county. This is why you don’t see much local press on the border airport issue. Those in power in San Diego don’t want anything to do with it, so they are not even considering this an option.
I know these are not warm and fuzzy statements but they are the important factors in why you won’t see a border airport in the next 35 years.
Airic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1983 times:
I agree with North County. I'm sure the residents along the 78 corridor don't want to drive an hour south to the airport. That's why I'm against Pendelton and Borde rbecause they are both too far from the north and stouh respectively. That was one good thing about the downtown airport. It was only about 25 minutes or less from the majority of the city's population. A place like Mirarmar would be nice because that's in a pretty central area as well.