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AA & US 2012 Potential Merger  
User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21642 times:

I searched, but did not see any similar topics…AA currently in Chapter 11 cannot receive any takeover offers until it lays out the bankruptcy plan. That deadline, set by the court is coming very soon next February. Would we see a potential bid from US Airways, if the plan is not approved? The more I think about it, the more it makes sense in my head. Networks/hubs complement each other and fleet seems to also head in that direction after AA’s Airbus plane order. Think about it, AA’s hubs are DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA & ORD, with a Focus city of LGA (from Wikipedia), meanwhile US has CLT, PHX, PHL and LGA & DCA as focus cities. This would give AA access to more cities up and down the east coast and US would get more international access (i.e. Asia and Latin America) I am just curious to find out your thoughts.

Thanks,

Rudy at IAD


AA will Rise Again!
106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21653 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
Think about it, AA’s hubs are DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA & ORD, with a Focus city of LGA (from Wikipedia), meanwhile US has CLT, PHX, PHL and LGA & DCA as focus cities. This would give AA access to more cities up and down the east coast and US would get more international access (i.e. Asia and Latin America) I am just curious to find out your thoughts.

The best assets are probably lots and lots of RJ and some A32x, CLT, and DCA. But there's also a lot to dismantle, so net-net the merger is marginal whether it's worth pursuing.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21619 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
meanwhile US has CLT, PHX, PHL and LGA & DCA as focus cities

As many of us know, LGA won't be a focus city for US for much longer...



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21520 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
As many of us know, LGA won't be a focus city for US for much longer...

Yes, sure slot swap with DL got it. It is what is currently listed. LGA is a "focus city" for AA though....



AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4076 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21452 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 4):
Yes, sure slot swap with DL got it. It is what is currently listed. LGA is a "focus city" for AA though....

US might not have a focus at LGA for much longer, but even with hub flights will still have plenty of slots. Would AA inherit all those or would there be another divestiture?


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 21173 times:

Really the only thing that US has is CLT and a little bit of DCA that would bring the goods to a merger with AA....PHX would close in favor of LAX ,,,PHL would close in favor of JFK/LGA..That would create such a unhappy work force it would be crazy to get the 2 airline employees to get a long and work...

User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9236 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 20890 times:

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 5):
Really the only thing that US has is CLT and a little bit of DCA that would bring the goods to a merger with AA....PHX would close in favor of LAX ,,,PHL would close in favor of JFK/LGA..That would create such a unhappy work force it would be crazy to get the 2 airline employees to get a long and work...

That would be a disaster for PHL if they were to lose US. I wonder who would come rushing in to fill in the massive gaping hole should that happen.

Yeah, my issue would be with the unions -- 2 different unions representing the pilots, FAs, etc. = 1 unhappy work environment...

US would gain more from AA (more int'l service plus DFW, ORD, MIA, and JFK) than AA would from US (CLT, A320s).



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUnited777ORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 20748 times:

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 5):
Really the only thing that US has is CLT and a little bit of DCA that would bring the goods to a merger with AA....PHX would close in favor of LAX ,,,PHL would close in favor of JFK/LGA..That would create such a unhappy work force it would be crazy to get the 2 airline employees to get a long and work...

PHL would not close as a hub if AA/US merge. PHL has a good amount of O&D traffic and connecting traffic to key US and international markets. Plus, AA/AE have downsized JFK and Delta is rapidly expanding and gaining JFK market share from American. PHL could alleviate some of the congestion that JFK experiences at peak travel hours. JFK would remain a international gateway.


User currently offlineMetrojet732 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20530 times:

First of all why would you close PHL??? It wouldn’t make any since. A US/AA combined airline, PHL would become even more important. We all know at JFK, AA is limited on what they can do. If they were smart, they would concentrate on the top destinations out of the NYC market. Then move the other domestic and international flights to PHL where they would be able to have more connectable flights. Also, PHL gives you a really strong Northeast hub that JFK would never give you. When it comes to work force, if the right personal was at the helm, nothing impossible. Look what Gordon did with CAL!! They were good as gone. But ounce he got his hands on them, he turned them into the Airline everyone wanted to work for n fly on… A AA/US combined airline could, under the right management, could easy take over UAL n Delta for top US airline. But Parker isn’t that guy…

User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20434 times:

Quoting Metrojet732 (Reply 8):
A AA/US combined airline could, under the right management, could easy take over UAL n Delta for top US airline. But Parker isn’t that guy…

Well depends on what you would consider "Top US airline"

When talking about fiances Parker would be the best guy for this to happen, but when talking about everything besides fiance Parker may not be the guy....

But I could see him pull this merger off, he did it with America West and the close to dead US.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20397 times:

The problem is OneWorld being so big at JFK they would never be able to give PHL the Attn it would need...PHL wouldnt close over night like PHX would but over time it would. Then how do you tell PHX employees who have been there since the start you can move to LAX/DFW/ORD. And no doubt JFK will offer everything and more than PHL would to AA....and that will come with B6 tie up or massive codeshare.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13649 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20281 times:
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Interestingly, from what I'm told some IAM union general chairs are saying an AA/US merger is "a done deal already" behind the scenes. I'm guessing this is just union fearmongering as the IAM desperately wants to avoid this, since it would likely kick them off the US property in favor of the TWU which is already on the much-larger AA property.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7690 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 20270 times:

If this happens, closing PHL would be absolutely idiotic on behalf of AA/US. There is way too much high yielding traffic to PHL on a domestic and international level.

What I could see happening is JFK being a mostly O&D opperation and PHL handling most of the connections to Europe as well as that markets O&D.

There is definite value in what US has on the East Coast. What US has out west however, is a different story. Even then, I cant see PHX shutting down, but I can see it emphasized to regional cities and major markets only. Naturally, PHX would still have BA for Europe O&D and connections.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 20206 times:
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OT, I know, but if an AA/US merger were to happen ( not holding my breath on this in spite of constant rumours) what would happen to B6? Would this push them away from AA?


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMetrojet732 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 20199 times:

When it comes to finances, you right. Parker could easily do the job. But when it comes to the over all airlines moral, (which I think is just as important, if not more) I’d take a guy like a Gordon Bethune. A guy that makes you feel like he’s got you back. One that actually cares about his employees. Parker doesn’t know how to deal with employees. He just looks at the bottom dollar….

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4606 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 19845 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):

If this happens, closing PHL would be absolutely idiotic on behalf of AA/US. There is way too much high yielding traffic to PHL on a domestic and international level.

Exactly, but we are all arm chairing it here so there will be opinions that this hub is gone or that hub is gone. In reality PHL is a strong yielding market and would allow for the new AA to dominate out east. High yield business traffic would all go through New York while PHL will continue what it does now and be a strong connecting hub to Europe. Does OneWorld need to retool and move to PHL, nope...there can be a flight or two dropped in but doesn't need a full NYC size deployment.

PHX would probably get pulled down a bit, but would probably be comparable to CVG with DL.

DCA is practically a hub already, so that will do a lot there. CLT is a great southeast hub and will do well with MIA. Like someone else mentioned, this opens a bunch of larger RJs up for the AA flight. You can bet they will end up in Chicago and Dallas very fast.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2997 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 19538 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
I searched, but did not see any similar topics

  

That's because the search function is bust. The hypothetical AA-US merger has been disscussed to death here.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 19367 times:

the bigger arm chair CEOs are those who think maintaining hubs+focus cities in BOS-LGA-JFK-PHL-DCA is a good idea

they all have O&D and all have decent yields, but a combined airline simply can't be the jack of all trades

the new battle for domination is fought over international flights. Those stuck in the northeast-shuttle mindset is bound to be left behind.


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18853 times:

that would be a dream come true if Gordon went to AA

User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1967 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18703 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 15):
CLT is a great southeast hub and will do well with MIA. Like someone else mentioned, this opens a bunch of larger RJs up for the AA flight.

Kind of a contradiction there, no? I've made this point before and I might as well make it again since the topic has come back up: If MIA is brought into the fold in a hypothetical merger, it completely changes the strategy/focus at CLT. Presently, CLT is US's main and largest hub and, as US has no MIA, it uses CLT as it's best current asset to tap into the Caribbean/Latin America traffic just as DL makes due with ATL. Bring MIA into the equation however, and all of a sudden the new AA/US has a much better, much more profitable gateway to South America along with plenty of new, larger RJ's to add cities domestically from MIA to connect onto it's international flights, bypassing CLT. IMO CLT is a strong hub for US and in a merger with AA will likely remain a strong domestic hub, but it's current status as a Caribb/LatAm gateway would likely be curtailed with the exception of a few of the majors such as SJU, CUN...etc in a merger with AA.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5155 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18360 times:

PHL: 5 million potential pax. Close PHL under this scenario? NO WAY.
PHX: Marginal hub with WN there but strategically sound. Logistically no way to move it all to LAX.
CLT: Goldmine.
DCA: See CLT.

AA+US=Long term success after labor synergies worked out.



Next Up: STL-EWR-STL for my first mileage run!
User currently offlinecaliboy78 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 18139 times:

I read an article today that US Airways was going to start the same as what AA is doing right now which is having their flights touch their hubs about 98% of the time and the change should be done by late July 2012. Coincidence..... I think not!!!!!!!! Anyways I'm don't know what to think or say. But whatever AA and US do I just hope is good for all of the employees.

I believe LAX ORD JFK CLT MIA PHL and DFW will be hubs and BOS LGA PHX will be focus cities. I know JFK LGA and PHL are very close by but that's how I think it may play out to give DL and UA good and healthy competition and a good run for their moolah since AA will be leaner and their cost will be down and very up to par with all of them not to say the start of a great fleet renewal amongst other good things.

Now labor it's another story but I'm sure help from the court will aliviate some of the hurtle and a little bit of cash to up the ante and to bring the US employees to AA level might close the deal.



TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20743 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17516 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 16):
Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
I searched, but did not see any similar topics

  

That's because the search function is bust. The hypothetical AA-US merger has been disscussed to death here.

Easy way to search in the interim: Google "AA US merger site:airliners.net" (without the quote marks) and it will return lots of recent threads in the search results. Easy and time-efficient way to search any site, really.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16734 times:

If the merger happens while AMR is in bankruptcy, then it will ultimatley be up to the creditors to decide if it goes through. That is, are they better off with a merged airline or taking AMR out of Chapter 11 on its own? Frankly, I don't see the new Horton lead AMR team inspiring much confidence or vision among investors or employees. And while US Air has its own integration problems from the America West merger, Parker at least has a lot of credability among the financical community. So this would argue well for the merger. Let's look at the other factors:

1. Proximity of PHL and JFK should not be an issue, because UAL has EWK and IAD. Besides their route networks are not particularly competitive overall.

2. Many Trans-Atlantic routes serviced by U out of PHL are not servied by AA from JFK and increasingly so out of other AA hubs.

3. AA has been retreating from many Europena routes, because it is unable to compete with its rivals. This would be less of a concern with those routes out of PHL where there is much less competition. PHL could therefore serve as a connecting hub for those cities--that is, almost every EU destination other than LHR and CDG.

4. With other hubs serving EU cities, AA would continue to shrink ORD. After all, it is unable to compete with UAL and Star team members anymore, Virgin America will continue to encroach on west coast routes, the business traveler continues to flock to Southwest at Midway and DL has good operations at two hubs each about an hour away from ORD.

5. PHX and LAX would continue pretty much as they are already. There would be challenges with merging their LAX operations into one terminal, and there is not really a lot of spac at LAX to scale down PHX and transfer operations to LAX.

6. CLT and PHL could see LHR service and some improved connecting service to Pacific destinations, even though AA continues to be a bit player to UAL and DL. Tokkyo service would be a possibility.

7. Labor relations and integration will continue to be an issue to matter what, so management is not going to let this stand int he way of a merger.

I'd say those AA executives who will survive the merger should start packing their bags and get ready to move the Phoenix. Even though one could argue that Dallas is much better suited for the HQ, the HQ location belongs to the winner.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7690 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 16321 times:

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 23):

You have some sort of obsession with AA moving it's HQ from Texas as you bring it up every time this topic comes us.

Even in a merger, it's not going to happen. The facilities in Fort Worth are far more vast and far superior to anything US has in Phoenix. Plus, Texas has more business friendly laws than Arizona.

Save your breath bro, the HQ will remain in Texas regardless. Do you honestly think that had US bought Delta that the HQ would not have been in Atlanta?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 AAplat4life : My problem with AA is that it continues to make stupid, insular decisions. Based on my discussions with AA employees--and not just the ones that work
26 Cubsrule : Not at all. MIA is a great city for southbound O&D and can host some connections from larger cities, but it will never have the panoply of domest
27 STT757 : PHL is a major market right in the middle of the Northeast corridor, there's no way a post merger AA/US would do anything but expand at PHL. AA is a d
28 txkf2010 : What about VX and US?
29 OzarkD9S : Uggh, the minnow and the whale?
30 seabosdca : This seems a somewhat likely exit strategy from BK for AA. What I think the combined entity would do: - Boost NYC domestic and international O&D u
31 LAXdude1023 : Ironic since CO's personel is running the show. That could tell you they were "the winner'. Yet, the HQ is in Chicago and not Houston. And thats the
32 txkf2010 : why not? VX would "instantly" grow and have east coast presence in CLT and PHL. With PHL that could tie them to Virgin Atlantic for connections. Mayb
33 mogandoCI : Should be the other way around - trim PHL to O&D levels, and up-gauge JFK equipment to handle additional TATL flows. Ceding ground at JFK will on
34 polot : Except VX is tiny. 46 planes versus 340. US would be the surviving carrier, not VX, and with VX being the dominant carrier absolutely nowhere US woul
35 STT757 : The State of Illinois and City of Chicago gave UA an incentive (tax break) package Texas and Houston couldn't (didn't) match. They did the same thing
36 seabosdca : Why funnel transfer pax through such a huge O&D market, part of which AA is already ceding to DL, international airlines, and even UA via EWR, wh
37 BC77008 : We said that when we were speculating on a potential UA/CO merger. No way would the new UA be based in Chicago. No way! At the end of the day it will
38 darksnowynight : Nope. Having been to both, this cannot be overstated. In fact, I do not think any other american airline has such an all-in-one facility on the scale
39 mogandoCI : No one transits like that, but it weakens the O&D base that resides in NYC and also weaken the value proposition of corporate contracts. Would lo
40 LAXdude1023 : See below: That was not the case in the Chicago vs. Houston battle. Both facilities were relatively evenly mached. That is not the case with what US
41 seabosdca : Did I say anywhere that AA would pull current JFK destinations or force JFK O&D travelers to go through PHL? No. They would just redirect their f
42 JHCRJ700 : I feel like this topic has been discussed ad-nosium over the past few weeks. Check some of the AA bankruptcy threads these things were dicussed there.
43 mogandoCI : Not every hub has to be a replica of DFW with 7 runways and infinite RJs running 15 minute frequencies. my guess is that any surplus demand that can'
44 laca773 : It seems many of you think a merger between US & AA would see US' PHX shut down and moved to LAX! This is beyond laughable, actually, I feel it's
45 mogandoCI : AA/US should *definitely* maintain a hub that's bombarded by Southwest, has zero international connectivity, is the ground zero of the housing bust,
46 seabosdca : By cutting the substantial volume of completely unprofitable operations. PHX may be big, but the goal isn't to be big; it's to make money. AA/US woul
47 corinthians : With all the talk of how a merger would potentially boost PHL service, aren’t we forgetting how horribly congested that airport is right now? OK, I
48 flyguy89 : Not domestically, but 1-2 daily flights to connect to the international banks is indeed very realistic. They already do this in many smaller markets
49 Cubsrule : You forget how far east most Caribbean islands are. If you draw a straight line from Boston to Antigua or Chicago to Aruba or Nashville to San Juan,
50 Post contains images peanuts : A US/AA marriage is very plausible. Union differences will be a challenge but can be overcome. The union culture of the original US (pre HP merger) se
51 point2point : I would give the chance of an AA/US merger something of a shot now more than in the past, just because of the AA BK. The hubs would work out pretty we
52 flyguy89 : Sure to the eastern Caribbean, but as far as the Bahamas, western Caribbean, Mexico, Central America...etc MIA is better suited. I assume you meant M
53 Cubsrule : But given that Americans can't (yet) go to Cuba "Western Caribbean" for our purposes is pretty much just Jamaica and arguably the Dominican Republic.
54 darksnowynight : Which is why you don't see AA or US rushing to fill that gap. It may lack some of the convenience factor for some customers, but the truth there real
55 Post contains links realsim : I wouldn't say it passes a lot closer to CLT than to MIA. It's true, but the differences are slim: - ORD-MIA-AUA is 24 mi longer than ORD-CLT-AUA. -
56 Cubsrule : Yes, though I think the time difference going north may be more pronounced; I'd book an hour and a half connection in CLT before I'd book an hour and
57 HPRamper : MIA is horribly situated for domestic connections...which are what drive the success of a hub. No way can MIA supplant CLT as the main hub in the Sou
58 CIDFlyer : bingo. and AA I think in retrospect misses having a hub in that region after shutting RDU down. MIA is a good spot for a hub for Latin/South America
59 flyguy89 : What are you talking about? No one, including myself, has been saying MIA is better or should be used for domestic connections over CLT, did you not
60 point2point : In thinking about this hypothetical (though now maybe slightly possible) consolidation, it's worth thinking on how this would play out with the big th
61 william : No,if Parker has all of this credibility he would be running Delta right now. We know how that slam dunked, easy,Wall Street says makes so much sense
62 corinthians : IAD and PHL are totally different animals. IAD serves, Washington, which is one of the most (if not THE most) important cities in the country, if not
63 EricR : What major traffic flows do you think UA is missing in the PNW? UA does not need a PNW hub with SFO and DEN as hubs. Will they miss some Intra-PNW tr
64 mogandoCI : Is this the same school of thought that DL should keep MEM to "relieve" ATL, even though they're within driving distance ? Weather is not a totally r
65 seabosdca : Two points about this: 1) Philly is growing, if not as fast as DC... and the metro area is substantially bigger, a difference which will take a few y
66 HPRamper : I never accused you of saying that. I just disagree with focusing on international traffic as the be-all, end-all of the viability of a hub. MEM isn'
67 flyguy89 : Sorry, didn't mean to bite if it came off that way. In any case, no, international traffic isn't the be-all end-all for a hub. Shifting the Caribbean
68 LAXdude1023 : There would (no doubt) be some redefining of CLT in the event of a merger with US and AA. However, its not as black and white as some would think. I p
69 Cubsrule : I think that's right. The thing that a lot of people miss is that it's just not that many destinations we're talking about. US flies to the following
70 Post contains images flyguy89 : This is precisely what I was trying to show in my posts, now why couldn't you have just agreed with me then, cubs
71 LAXdude1023 : However, I do think that AA/US might be able to make CLT-GRU work.
72 cjpmaestro : It just seems laughable that everyone assumes PHX will be taken down. US has nearly 300 daily flights from PHX. From what I can find, AA had at most 1
73 HPRamper : As this pertains to a theoretical network, I think PHX/LAX would function much as CLT/MIA would in the East. PHX would keep most of the domestic conn
74 Post contains images TSS : As I have said in previous threads on this subject, I won't take the rumors of a US-AA merger seriously until US leaves *A for OW. Once that occurs,
75 darksnowynight : I could see a slight bump in connections as other OW partners like BA suddenly become important, as well as a lot more domestic work, sure. I think t
76 jmc1975 : What for? The point of such a merger would be to realize revenue & cost synergies and focus on higher-yielding local O&D traffic instead of b
77 Cubsrule : If it is a "goldmine," why change it drastically?
78 incitatus : Let me put it simply: Compared to Los Angeles, Phoenix is a poor city.
79 kiwiandrew : Let me put it simply, compared to Phoenix, Los Angeles is a bloodbath of competing airlines with everyone trying to get a share. No one denies that P
80 flyguy89 : My thoughts exactly. It would definitely remain an essential hub to the merged carrier, but it's current service levels would necessarily decrease to
81 Cubsrule : How much service has MSP lost that is not directly related to SF3 retirements? I guess I don't understand your point. Aside from a handful of interna
82 flyguy89 : It's not a 1:1 example, but SF3 retirements taken out of the equation, MSP has lost flights and capacity...not an excessive amount, but with SLC, LAX
83 Cubsrule : Which flights? Sure. But, again, why would the combined carrier give up the relatively high yields and unique traffic flows at CLT unless they were g
84 flyguy89 : More or less frequency reductions--the topic concerning MSP has been discussed many times before and some one actually linked a chart once showing YO
85 nycdave : It's become clear that these days the priorities in hubs are trying to get the best possible combination of: -local o/d population -local wealth &
86 bobnwa : From what I see,MSP as hardly lost any Mainline service, only SF3 service
87 HPRamper : US isn't WN. Hubs are necessary. No hub/spoke airline is going to just cut a hub out of the system simply because there isn't enough O&D proporti
88 Cubsrule : But by the same token, AA is moving at least some north-south traffic from those cities over DFW and ORD, and that traffic would be better served con
89 flyguy89 : I highly doubt it...I mean a BUF-ORD-GSO itinerary makes little sense as does as BUF-DFW-MSY. At the moment AA has virtually zero domestic North-Sout
90 jmc1975 : Never said they weren't. Let's look at DFW-LGA as just one example of why CLT would be decreased in a AA/US merger. If you look at the government dat
91 Post contains images CIDFlyer : CLT would definitely IMO be a major hub in the AA network. You pick up a lot of of that southeast traffic and route it through CLT. For example, if I
92 STT757 : I think your missing the most important, mix of international and domestic.
93 Post contains images EricR : This was a excellent example. I think what people tend to forget is that as part of any merger, there will be optimization that will lead to the righ
94 STT757 : Charlotte is not CVG, STL, PIT etc.. The Charlotte area's population is booming.
95 flyguy89 : I wouldn't say the changes will be as drastic as CVG and MEM as both were obviously redundant in the combined network, but there will obviously be so
96 Post contains images CIDFlyer : not to mention CLT's only competition in the southeast is ATL and there is definitely room for 2 strong hubs in the booming southeast. The problems w
97 boilerla : The facilities were not equal. United had just spent over $15 million on a new operations center to be located in downtown Chicago. It was brand new
98 dsuairptman : The only reason Chicago got the HQ/Ops center was due to the typical courrupt Chicago political machinery.
99 nycdave : Indeed... in my mind I was just equating that with "high-value pax", though I realize those two aren't ALWAYS concurrent. I'm sure, for instance, CLT
100 EricR : The definition of booming is very subjective. What I can say with certainty is that CLT had the 14th largest net metro pop increase from 2000 through
101 flyguy89 : So is the population of the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky area...but neither Cincinnati nor Charlotte will be anywhere near the size of Chicago or Atl
102 Cubsrule : But as you well know, population isn't everything. Charlotte is larger than Salt Lake City, and no one is suggesting that Delta ought to close (or se
103 nycdave : Yeah, but SLC (and DEN) offer a unique geographic position as well as decent draws. Look at the passenger flow vis-a-vis aircraft movements, and its
104 seabosdca : I don't really think so. Most of this thread has been about domestic flows, and the Baltimore MSA is providing virtually no domestic traffic to IAD,
105 Post contains links glbltrvlr : Reuters is reporting that Delta, US Air and an investment firm are all interesting in taking over AA, but that no bids could be submitted until AA res
106 darksnowynight : The only areas that are truly anything like that far would be the far north extremes of the Baltimore MSA (if such a thing exists separately from the
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