Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US Airways Applies For DCA-JAN Slot Exemption  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24354 posts, RR: 47
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7337 times:

With the Delta Airlines terminating its DCA-JAN service in March ( DL To End DCA-JAN (by FutureUScapt Dec 28 2011 in Civil Aviation) ), US Airways today filed with the DOT for permission to take over the slots by offering its own DCA-JAN service.

While US Airways understands the DOT might wish to reallocate the AIR21 slot exemptions entirely, it is offering to take over the existing DCA-JAN service effective March 4th, 2012 utilizing E170/175 aircraft.

OST-2000-7182


While there is precedence for the DOT to grant such authority to ensure uninterrupted service, I’m certain other carriers will want to put in for their own route applications to utilize the vacated DCA slots. Let see how this plays out….


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7280 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

Can someone explain why this "AIR21" slot is special? What does it mean, and why is it an exception?


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinejoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7171 times:

This surprises me...I didn't look it up but somebody posted loads on Delta's JAN-DCA were terrible. Somebody wanna look it up....  

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7120 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):

Can someone explain why this "AIR21" slot is special? What does it mean, and why is it an exception?

They are restricted to be used in small markets that normally didn't have nonstop service to Washington. If you google AIR21 you'll probably find a ton of information about it when it was passed years ago.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6494 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7001 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Can someone explain why this "AIR21" slot is special? What does it mean, and why is it an exception?

As part of a Congressional Act about 12 years ago, Congress created additional slots at DCA to foster competition, allow new entrants and ensure smaller markets had access to DCA. However, unlike most other slots, the carriers do not own them and cannot simply sell them to another carrier.

Some of the slots were allocated to small market service which is why DL flies DCA-JAN and DCA-LEX. DL is giving up DCA-JAN, so the DOT now gets to decide who gets the slot. However, the slot must be used for a small market.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

smart move on US's part. This is probably the only way the DOT will even read their application. I don't expect them to win the slots, but if was by far their "best" option to apply for the same route DL is quitting and allowing no gap in service.

User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):
However, unlike most other slots, the carriers do not own them and cannot simply sell them to another carrier.

I thought the airlines don't legally own any of the slots, though they are allowed to sell or trade them (outside the Air21 ones).

[Edited 2012-01-05 15:22:43]

User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Smart move indeed. IIRC, US operated DCA-ILM under these circumstances several years ago until the slot was formally awarded to another carrier. This is a bit different though since in this case US is proposing to continue operating the incumbent's service whereas DCA-ILM was an entirely new route.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
While there is precedence for the DOT to grant such authority to ensure uninterrupted service, I’m certain other carriers will want to put in for their own route applications to utilize the vacated DCA slots. Let see how this plays out….

I agree, this will be interesting. I suspect F9 may be interested in using slots on a temporary basis, and IMO, they stand the best shot of securing the formal bid, but I've been wrong before. Even for those who are interested on a temporary basis, the idea of continuing JAN is quite compelling - at least until it can be formally decided what the best long-term option is.

Quoting joeljack (Reply 2):
This surprises me...I didn't look it up but somebody posted loads on Delta's JAN-DCA were terrible. Somebody wanna look it up....

They were (hence the reason they are ending it, I'm sure), but US has several additional connecting opportunities that can help contribute to the overall viability of the route. I doubt an E70/E75 is necessary, but perhaps the idea of maintaining first class on the route is an additional compelling reason to allow US to operate the route.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11025 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Where is JAN?


//filler
//filler



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22320 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6300 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Where is JAN?

Jackson, Mississippi.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11025 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6271 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Where is JAN?

Jackson, Mississippi.

Thanks.

I wonder why that doesn't show up on this site.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
I wonder why that doesn't show up on this site.

Many codes don't, which is why there is google or airnav.com.   I think it really isn't the priority of the new owners to add more airports codes to the code of the board.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5514 times:

WN on January 6, 2012 stated that they have no objections to the pendent lite application by US.

OST-2000-7182


User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 12):
WN on January 6, 2012 stated that they have no objections to the pendent lite application by US.

OST-2000-7182

To add to that, US received no objections from any carrier and has accordingly asked the DOT for expedited consideration of the application.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 13):
To add to that, US received no objections from any carrier and has accordingly asked the DOT for expedited consideration of the application.

Hopefully the DOT will approve this application fairly soon


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I’m certain other carriers will want to put in for their own route applications to utilize the vacated DCA slots. Let see how this plays out….

Well, so much for that! No one had any input! Very interesting.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 13):

To add to that, US received no objections from any carrier and has accordingly asked the DOT for expedited consideration of the application.

Congratulations to US Airways, and I wish them the best of luck on the route, hopefully they can do better then Delta did.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22320 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 15):
hopefully they can do better then Delta did.

What evidence do you have that DL did poorly on the route?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24354 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 15):
Well, so much for that! No one had any input! Very interesting.

All the airlines were not objecting was to US taking over the route to ensure uninterrupted service -- pending the DOT making a full review of the slot allocation.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):

What evidence do you have that DL did poorly on the route?

From the other thread...

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 8):
For the record, DL ran an average load factor of 45% over the last 12 months with CR7 equipment.

Not My evidence, just what I read, and I didn't say that Delta did bad, just whatever Delta was dong, hopefully US Airways can do better with it.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):

All the airlines were not objecting was to US taking over the route to ensure uninterrupted service -- pending the DOT making a full review of the slot allocation.

That's not what you said though? Unless I misunderstood, you thought other airlines were going to put their own applications. I am nor saying you are wrong, I thought that too. So I quoted you cause you had the same thought I did, and said "so much for that" since no one objected to it.

Or can an airline not object to something and STILL input their own application?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6494 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
What evidence do you have that DL did poorly on the route?

The fact that DL is giving up the slot says something too...especially since they are keeping their other AIR-21 slot to LEX.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22320 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 19):
The fact that DL is giving up the slot says something too...especially since they are keeping their other AIR-21 slot to LEX.

Bear in mind that LEX is inside the DL "CR2 perimeter" from DCA. JAN is not. It may not say anything more than that that policy is boneheaded.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6494 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Bear in mind that LEX is inside the DL "CR2 perimeter" from DCA. JAN is not. It may not say anything more than that that policy is boneheaded.

True, though the CR7 has better operating economics. It's only 16 more seats than a CRJ. However, if the L/F numbers we saw posted were correct, I can't blame DL for dumping it...especially since the route will lose what little connectivity it had (BDL, BOS).

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 18):
Or can an airline not object to something and STILL input their own application?

The airlines won't apply unless the DOT decides to open a full competitive proceeding. I don't think DOT has made that decision yet.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22320 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 21):
However, if the L/F numbers we saw posted were correct, I can't blame DL for dumping it...especially since the route will lose what little connectivity it had (BDL, BOS).

The loss of connectivity - albeit limited - was sort of what I was driving at. DL has most of the market on both JAN-NYC and JAN-BOS.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24354 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 18):
That's not what you said though? Unless I misunderstood, you thought other airlines were going to put their own applications. I am nor saying you are wrong, I thought that too. So I quoted you cause you had the same thought I did, and said "so much for that" since no one objected to it.

Or can an airline not object to something and STILL input their own application?

I guess you fail to grasp what the circulated petition to other airlines was for.

All US asked for an interim transfer of authority to ensure uninterupted service at JAN, while the DOT goes through the longer process of permanent reallocation of the two slots.

More specifically the language used was:

"No objection to US Airways’ application for interim service in that market, subject, of course, to the Department’s oft-stated admonition that the grant of pendent lite exemption authority has no bearing on the award of permanent authority."


For the record, other airlines have filed their own brief also, for instance Southwest Airlines said the following this week:

"Department’s overriding goal should be to reallocate the two slot exemptions as promptly as reasonably possible on a permanent basis, in a manner that best vindicates the public interest. To that end, Southwest will submit an application in the reallocation proceeding that will generate far greater public benefits than US Airways’ small aircraft service in the DCA-JAN market."



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24354 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

DOT today approved interim authority to US Airways if it chooses to commence DCA-JAN service pending "such time as a final selection decision is made in the reallocation proceeding and the selected carrier initiates service.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 smoot4208 : This is good for both US and JAN/DCA customers
26 boberito6589 : The DCA-JAN flight will be available for sale on usairways.com this weekend: US3477 DCA JAN 19:35 21:11 xSa E70 US3478 JAN DCA 07:52 11:00 xSu E70
27 smoot4208 : Pretty good flight times as well. Both departures are within an hour of what DL currently has.
28 gigneil : IDK why anyone would be opposed to it. Who else would bother with such a route? NS
29 FlyPNS1 : They'd be opposed to US permanently getting the slot from DL without a new competition. I doubt they want to fly to JAN, but they might want the slot
30 gigneil : The AIR21 routes are slots for specific markets. If they were to not get an exempted slot for JAN, they wouldn't bother. The 42 they just own, they wi
31 SouthernDC9 : Sorry if I missed this, but any idea when these slots will be offered up for bidding (if that's the right way of putting it) for permanent assignment?
32 FlyPNS1 : Maybe, but are markets like LIT and TLH anymore important than JAN?
33 LAXintl : For example Southwest Airlines has already said to the DOT it would submit its own proposal to utilize the slots in a qualifying market that would pr
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
US Airways Applies For Bogota! posted Mon Oct 29 2007 10:32:47 by Jmc1975
US Airways Applies For Argentina And Uruguay posted Fri Jan 26 2007 00:36:54 by Bridogger6
US Airways Applies For IAD/BWI-CUN Authority posted Wed Mar 31 2004 15:33:50 by A330323X
Hellenic Airways Applies For US Rights posted Wed Oct 7 2009 14:43:40 by LAXintl
British Airways Applies For EU - US Service posted Mon May 14 2007 20:31:54 by Jimyvr
US Airways To Begin DCA-TLH posted Tue Jun 15 2010 21:02:59 by MAH4546
Delta - US Airways Trade LGA/DCA Slots posted Wed Aug 12 2009 06:28:15 by SeeTheWorld
US Airways 1st For Ontime For Big 6 Airlines! posted Sat Feb 14 2009 06:05:20 by JFKMan
US Airways Order For 3 X A318s posted Mon Nov 17 2008 05:03:38 by JerseyFlyer
I Need Info On A US Airways Diversion For Fuel posted Thu Sep 25 2008 13:29:50 by Whappeh