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Boeing Adds 25 787s From Unidentified Customer(s)  
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18818 times:

According to the updated O&D page through 31 December 2011, 25 orders for the 787 from an unidentified customer(s):

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

As pointed out per flightblogger, brings the net 787 orders for the year back into the positive by 13:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineck8msp From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18745 times:

speculation on the buyer(s)?

User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18715 times:

AA finally firming up their order.


NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineck8msp From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18675 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
AA finally firming up their order.

That was my first thought but could that really be kept secret through the courts? Are they in a position to firm orders DURING chap 11?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18678 times:
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Well if it is the same customer for the 767 and 787, that's pretty narrow since NH, JL and LA have been the main buyers of 767s as of late who are also 787 customers.

I suppose NH could be "doubling down" on the 787.

Is JL still in bankruptcy reorganization? They might be looking at a major order to retire older aircraft.


AF/KL also have 25 787s they need to formally sign for.



Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
AA finally firming up their order.

They have 42 787-9s on MoU, but they might be securing the first tranche of delivery positions they hold.

[Edited 2012-01-05 09:48:15]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16883 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18572 times:

Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
AA finally firming up their order.
Quoting ck8msp (Reply 3):
That was my first thought but could that really be kept secret through the courts?

It would have to be approved by the courts, no way they would just announce it.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineflythere From Hong Kong, joined May 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18574 times:

chance for any Chinese carriers?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 18544 times:
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In the case of AA, because the customer is a UFO, it's possible that the Bankruptcy Court has approved the order, allowing Boeing to record it, but until AA formally announces it, it would be listed as a UFO.




EDIT - One source states these 25 787s are 787-9s.

[Edited 2012-01-05 09:57:09]

User currently offlineMauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 18388 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
EDIT - One source states these 25 787s are 787-9s.

I guess this will be the AF-KL order.. would match with the -9 and the amount on order..


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7078 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17556 times:

Wasn´t there a rumor that LH here a while ago that LH will order 25 787-9s and several A350s as well ?


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17486 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 9):
Wasn´t there a rumor that LH here a while ago that LH will order 25 787-9s and several A350s as well ?

I could see it for a subsidiary (OS or SN most likely) but I would be very surprised to ever see a 787 in the Lufthansa fleet.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17262 times:

I'm thinking this is the works of AA.

Yes, they are in bankruptcy but this is short term, getting these 787's is an important thing for the long term.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7337 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17162 times:

Quoting ck8msp (Reply 3):
That was my first thought but could that really be kept secret through the courts? Are they in a position to firm orders DURING chap 11?

Any large widebody aircraft order is EK isn't it? LOL

AA could firm it, but not without it being a public court ruling we would read about.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 16919 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
Any large widebody aircraft order is EK isn't it? LOL

While intended as a joke, there is speculation / opinion that EK's large 777-300ER order was a warning to Airbus about delays to the A350-1000 so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that EK could order some 787-9s as a warning to Airbus about the A350-900. That being said, it would be a more effective as a warning if they actually announced they were the customer.  

In that vein, however, could QR conceivably covering their bases on the A350-900? They have 30 787-8s on order, so adding 25 787-9s would provide them room (in theory) if the A350-900 encounters additional delays.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 16838 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that EK could order some 787-9s as a warning to Airbus about the A350-900.

I don't think that EK would go for anything smaller than an A350-900. The A330s will keep plugging along until they are retired and then EK will focus on bigger planes. Adding a new fleet type would be a big step to take compared to adding more of the same in 77Ws. Not to mention that they might keep on taking those even when they do get A350-1000s.

I think something big would need to be wrong with the A350-900 for Emirates to consider a step like buying 25 787-9s. And before they do that wouldn't we at least have to listen to several months of Tim Clark trying to get Boeing to launch a 787-10?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14850 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
I don't think that EK would go for anything smaller than an A350-900.

The 787-9 is not terribly smaller than the A350-900 - about 27 seats (3 rows of Economy).


Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
I think something big would need to be wrong with the A350-900 for Emirates to consider a step like buying 25 787-9s.

Agreed. I was not seriously offering the opinion that EK had ordered the 787-9, just that such a scenario is not totally without merit.

I'd expect QR to order the 787-9 as a "hedge" against late A350-900 deliveries much, much more than EK, but even there, it's at best a random guess on my part, not a formal suggestion / opinion.


User currently offlineA340crew From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14658 times:

EI...ground breaking order, will announce intentions to launch flights to africa, asia, and australia as well as expand into canada and more us cities. Also some Caribbean holiday seasonal flights. A350 order to be axed. This came from a confirmed source.

User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14385 times:

Quoting A340crew (Reply 16):
A350 order to be axed. This came from a confirmed source.

what is your definition of a "confirmed source" ??



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8425 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14312 times:
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Could it be Delta ? they have not signed up for a new generation intercontinental jet.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31110 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14157 times:
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Quoting A340crew (Reply 16):
EI...ground breaking order, will announce intentions to launch flights to africa, asia, and australia as well as expand into canada and more us cities. Also some Caribbean holiday seasonal flights. A350 order to be axed. This came from a confirmed source.

Well it would certainly be ground-breaking on a number of levels. EI is an all-Airbus operator, so adding the 787 would be a radical departure for them and would complicate their pilot pool, since they'd now have separate ones for their narrowbody (Airbus) and widebody (Boeing) fleets. It would also be ground-breaking as a major expansion, since they have 9 A350-900s on order and 3 A330-200s and 4 A330-300s - 25 787-9s would more than triple their long-haul fleet.

I know never to say never, but I admit I want to say never.


User currently offlinedelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14092 times:

Delta actually has 787s on order they inherited from NW in the merger; but they were deferred until 2020 or thereabouts. While I would not be at all surprised to see that date move forward, now really doesn't seem like the time.

They are refurbing their 767s rather than retiring them right now. They are also engaged in a massive multiyear debt reduction project.

I'd expect news in another year or two at the earliest

[Edited 2012-01-05 17:06:56]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14070 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
Could it be Delta ?

They'd probably just un-defer the 787s ordered by Northwest prior to the merger.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
Well it would certainly be ground-breaking on a number of levels.

It would somewhat make sense considering that EI doesn't really need a lot of capacity and they don't really need a lot of range either. But 25 is a ton of planes for them, so I'm inclined to believe it isn't them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14016 times:

Quoting A340crew (Reply 16):
EI...ground breaking order, will announce intentions to launch flights to africa, asia, and australia as well as expand into canada and more us cities. Also some Caribbean holiday seasonal flights. A350 order to be axed. This came from a confirmed source.

The A350 is now just wrong, wrong, wrong for EI.

While I doubt this 787 order is from EI, I think it will happen. EI has already said that the A350 does not suit them now.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
Well it would certainly be ground-breaking on a number of levels. EI is an all-Airbus operator, so adding the 787 would be a radical departure for them and would complicate their pilot pool, since they'd now have separate ones for their narrowbody (Airbus) and widebody (Boeing) fleets. It would also be ground-breaking as a major expansion, since they have 9 A350-900s on order and 3 A330-200s and 4 A330-300s - 25 787-9s would more than triple their long-haul fleet.

EI do not cross qualify their A320 and A330 crews, so it would be no more complicated that things are now.

That said, EI may expand US and Canada, maybe a couple of frequencies to the caribbean. Maybe long term one Asian route plus Cape Town. But that's it - it won't be as ground breaking as thought!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7261 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

In the dream stakes...
NZ ordering some 787-8s in addition to their -9s (which they should never have transferred their orders to.IMO) This would allow them to open up services to SEA/ORD/YYZ/SGN/DPS/MNL/SCL/EZE/GRU/GIG/LIM/BOG/JNB/BKK/ADD/MAN/MUC

lol...

I suspect the order will be for LATAM group.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12277 times:

Quoting A340crew (Reply 16):
EI...ground breaking order, will announce intentions to launch flights to africa, asia, and australia as well as expand into canada and more us cities. Also some Caribbean holiday seasonal flights. A350 order to be axed. This came from a confirmed source.

Actually, it's funny you should say that as apparently the 787 is due to visit DUB in the next couple of weeks.

That said, even if it was an EI order - 25 units is surely WAY too many....... 



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
25 HNL-Jack : I suspect we could see several orders for the 787 from unexpected customers fairly soon as fuel prices are expected to increase pretty dramatically, p
26 astuteman : EK made it quite clear that they HAD to order the 773ER's to cover off the capacity shortfall caused by moving the A350-1000 EIS from 2015 to 2017. E
27 CHRISBA777ER : A little bird tells me EI are going to be acquired this year and that negotiations have already begun - was told by them definitively that NO decisio
28 Post contains images DALCE : How about Boeing creating a phantom-order just to have a positive 787-sales balance for 2011, without having an actual order on hand. Marketing people
29 Burkhard : No. This could be a serious thing becoming very expensive to cheat share holders...
30 DALCE : obviously they would never ever confirm such a thing....
31 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Safe to say Boeing are not desperate to sell Dreamliners and certainly not desperate to risk being up on Federal charges for financial irregularities
32 cmf : An incredibly expensive warning message. I would consider that a de facto reduction of A350 orders. Auditors would never sign off and then all hell w
33 kaitak : I'm with CHRISBA777ER on this; I'd have believed the rumour about 787s, were it not for this "rumour" about new routes; it just doesn't ring true; EI
34 PM : IAG one assumes...?
35 aviasian : Perhaps China Eastern getting back into the order book ... or other Chinese carriers. KC Sim
36 scouseflyer : This would be my feeling and I guess, as far as the Irish Gov goes who hold shares, it's anyone but Ryanair! To me this order is clearly the firming
37 Post contains links mffoda : Bloomberg has their sources saying it is the AF/KLM order completed before Christmas... http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...id-to-confirm-air-franc
38 scbriml : Not a huge surprise. Given that AF had already announced their intention to place the order, I wonder if the only reason for anonymity is that they'v
39 delimit : Ah yes. I am sure we are all on the edge of our seats waiting on the AF GE or RR announcement. Which one wi it be?! :D
40 Post contains images EPA001 : That makes the most sense when hearing this number of ordered B878's. Still it is good that the year total is back in the positive numbers again. .
41 Post contains images Stitch : The model is actually the 787-9, which is also the model AF/KL ordered.
42 PM : You might be surprised...
43 Post contains images Stitch : But I have a feeling you won't be.
44 Post contains images EPA001 : Oops, I mixed up the keys on my keyboard. Well, it is late on this side of the pond, that must be the reason. . You are of course totally correct. .
45 Post contains images delimit : Surprise would certainly be the right word.
46 alitalia744 : Is AF leaning GE or RR?
47 Post contains images Stitch : Recent history would say leaning towards GE, but their A350s are only available with RR. If AF/KL want to make a "complete package" announcement of t
48 Post contains links Viscount724 : They exited bankruptcy protection sometime last year. Reports this week say they're planning an IPO to raise approximately 500 billion Yen (approxima
49 Post contains images PM : Just a hunch. AF (and KLM for that matter) have a long and deep relationship with GE. I can't begin to think when AF last chose another engine when t
50 Post contains links Focker : According to Dutch news site www.nu.nl these 25 frames are indeed the AF/KL order, and this is confirmed by AF/KL representatives. First to be introdu
51 Post contains links india1 : http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...orld_business/view/1175957/1/.html Also confirmed as per this news source
52 seabosdca : KL first... very interesting. I would have assumed these would go to AF first as 343 replacements. If KL is taking on 789s so soon, what is the futur
53 Focker : I believe KL ordered only 4 333's if I am not mistaken. However, there are 10 or so MD11's to replace. Wouldn't the 789's be used as (partly) 74M rep
54 Post contains images frigatebird : The A333's were ordered for a couple of former MP routes... And, according to HB-IWC, route cuts for 2012 will result in a much lower utilisation of
55 seabosdca : The 789 is a better match to the 74M's pax/cargo balance than the 359, having slightly fewer pax and slightly more cargo capacity. 74M replacement ma
56 Post contains links and images SA7700 : As the order has officially been confirmed by Air France - KLM, this thread will be locked for further contributions. Please feel free to post in the
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