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What About A New 757NGX?  
User currently offlinemarcouscg From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7251 times:
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I notice and this has been a long discussion for a while that the Boeing 787 is supposedly to replace a bunch of aircraft to which I am not really sure that in the long run it will be effective as some might think. Why not as they have already done with the Boeing 737's make a NGX version so the same with the 757 NGX ??? I would hate to see the "Rocket" for example go in retirement for the AA and replace it eventually sometime with something we may not be happy with. A lot of Aviators and Plane Spotter that I know would find it hard to see something that has made History have to leave just because of its Years in duty...Please share your thoughts to this.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

Quoting marcouscg (Thread starter):
I would hate to see the "Rocket" for example go in retirement for the AA and replace it eventually sometime with something we may not be happy with. A lot of Aviators and Plane Spotter that I know would find it hard to see something that has made History have to leave just because of its Years in duty...Please share your thoughts to this.

The 707 is gone. The 727 is gone. Eventually the 757 will be, too. It's life.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlinemarcouscg From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7178 times:
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Actually the Boeing 707 is still flying and the Boeing 727 still does to...FED EX and The NATO uses them.

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30905 posts, RR: 87
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7178 times:
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Quoting marcouscg (Thread starter):
Why not as they have already done with the Boeing 737's make a NGX version so the same with the 757 NGX?

Because there is a market for a 737NGX.

There is no market for a 757NGX.

The A321-200neo and 737-9 will fill almost every mission a 757NGX could and do it cheaper and better. And for the missions it cannot, low-hour / low-cycle 757s are available to handle them.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5504 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

I think the short - really short - answer is that the tooling for the 757 is gone, and it ain't coming back. There will never be another 757.

You could do a search on the forum and find numerous threads where this was hashed and rehashed, so I'll leave it at that for me.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7046 times:

The market for reengined 737s and A320-series planes in the coming years is way into the thousands.

The market for a 757NG would be about 200 aircraft, max.

Which would you focus your resources on if you were Boeing?


User currently onlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1332 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6913 times:

How many times have we had this discussion, and how many times has it been said that the tools are gone; the structure is outdated; the aircraft is heavy and that in 90% of the cases an A321neo or 737-9 will do a much better job for far less money?

Its more dead than yesterdays fish, and it ain't coming back. Ever, so deal with it.

PS
I used to fly 757s and love the machine to bits. But commercial aviation has no time for romance, and sad as it is the long-legged girl with the big b00bs will slowly fade away. Enjoy her while it lasts, 'cause it won't be too many years before it's only freight dogs who'll have the pleasure of RB211 powered narrow body bliss.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4452 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6742 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
How many times have we had this discussion, and how many times has it been said that the tools are gone; the structure is outdated; the aircraft is heavy and that in 90% of the cases an A321neo or 737-9 will do a much better job for far less money?

Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5504 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.

True. You don't want to take it out on the OP just because you've seen it all before. However, a quick "757NG" search brought up a handful of threads, including these two:

(by Dec 31 1969 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4668062&searchid=4668062&s=757ng#ID4668062

(by Dec 31 1969 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=3267177&searchid=3267177&s=757ng#ID3267177

Not sure if they are 100% relevant (I didn't go through them) but clearly they might have answered the questions he had.

Anyhoo...

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2316 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
long-legged girl with the big b00bs will slowly fade away.

You don't need to be at the airport to spot one of those!  

I guess this is the replacement to "When Is NWA Going To Retire the DC9" threads..



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3600 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

As much as people say that they are getting sick of these 757 update post, there are still people who answer them, so if the somebody do not like this person post, please do not be disrespectful and make a rude comment, just do not reply! We need to stop disrespecting each other on A-net.



As to the topic, sadly Boeing do not have the tooling for 757s anymore. I think it a same to see such a great plane, get replaced, by these under powered 737s/ A32Xs. It seems like the airlines, think cheaper is better, and do not want to buy good planes any more. The 757 was built to replace another good plane, the 727, so it should be replace by a good plane.


User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6512 times:

Interesting topic.

This evening, driving home from work, I viewed a DL 753 turning base to final at MCO and thought, "Those are not too old and have lots of seats, will there be a possible re-engining and life-extension in the future?"

It could happen.......


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30905 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6444 times:
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Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.

Unfortunately, the list of topics that a.net suggests when you preview your new topic doesn't show any of the many topics we've had on this subject...


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8958 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

I do wonder, though, if in ten years or so there will be enough demand for something like a 757/A300/A310. Even if it is not that many units, it could be something EMB/BBD could go after without going head to head with Boeing and Airbus.

The amazing amount of short flights within Asia flying on wide bodies just seems to beg for such an aircraft.

[Edited 2012-01-05 16:28:43]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30905 posts, RR: 87
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6378 times:
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Quoting PPVRA (Reply 16):
I do wonder, though, if in ten years or so there will be enough demand for something like a 757/A300/A310. Even if it is not that many units, it could be something EMB/BBD could go after without going head to head with Boeing and Airbus.

I think Boeing and Airbus would love Embraer or Bombardier following such a path - it would surely lead to their financial collapse and it would be one less competitor to deal with.  


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1379 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

There is no new engine in the 757 class. So in addition to making a business case for a 757NGX, you need to convince an engine company or two to invest in a new engine.

the Leap-X is on 3 airframes all about the same thrust level - each of those is expected to sell more than a 757NGX. Why invest in a whole new engine for a small market?



The 737-900/A321 carry the same as a 757, but weigh a lot less. A737-700/A319 has same or better high performance attributes of a 757. The A320Neo and 737-8 (MAX) will be close.

The 737-7 (Max) will be a slow seller - the hot ones will be 737-8 (Max) and 737-9 (Max). So you would need a 757-3 (Max) and maybe later a 757-4 (Max) to jump over the 737-9 Max. That is too long for a single aisle. And there is no engine to power it.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3600 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

To me, the 757 is to the 737 as the E-jet is to the ERJ, so it is sad to see 757s leaving passenger fleets. In the 90's, the 757, was Boeing fourth largest airliner, so to me, 757s is more than just a narrow body, it's a special plane that is very well liked. Sadly, most well liked planes live short lives, for example L1011s, MD-11s, A340s and 757s. If you want a plane to be successful now at days, make it boring, and your sales will go threw the roof.  

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8958 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6200 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I think Boeing and Airbus would love Embraer or Bombardier following such a path - it would surely lead to their financial collapse and it would be one less competitor to deal with.  

A300 + A310 + B757 = ~2000 units sold. And don't forget, Boeing tried to go short range and high capacity with the 787-3. They ended up pulling the plug, but the fact they went as far as offering the aircraft to customers tell me there is something there. But it may take a dedicated design, not a stretch too far or a shrink too fat.

But I'd give it ~10 years. Too many 767/757 frames out there for cheap that can easily cover this niche for now.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30905 posts, RR: 87
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6142 times:
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Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
A300 + A310 + B757 = ~2000 units sold.

And when all three launched, they both created a new market and they were the only option to address that market.

Once the 767 launched, the A300 and A310 faded away because the 767 could address that market and was more capable (and probably economical, especially against the A310).

Once the A321 launched, the 757 faded away because the A321 (and later, 737-900ER) could address (most of) that market and was more economical.

And now we have the A321neo and 737-9 being even more economical and the A320neo and 737-8 should be able to get very close to the range of the 757-200, offering a more economical option for the last hill the 757 has been able to hold - TATL missions.

I don't see how a single-model EMB or BBD offering could be competitive against the multiple-model family offerings of Airbus and Boeing.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
There is no market for a 757NGX.

Well, there is, but not big enough to justify such a program.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
How many times have we had this discussion,

Many before, and there'll be many again. Hell the websites address will prove that. 
Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.

Unfortunately, the list of topics that a.net suggests when you preview your new topic doesn't show any of the many topics we've had on this subject...

With all due respect to the site, the search capability ain't the best.

Long live the 757!


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Photo © Mark Abbott




Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30905 posts, RR: 87
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6050 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 23):
Well, there is, but not big enough to justify such a program.

I firmly believe the only airlines that want a new 757 are the fantasy ones we a.net members run.  


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6001 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
Once the 767 launched, the A300 and A310 faded away because the 767 could address that market and was more capable (and probably economical, especially against the A310).

At least 75% (possibly more) of the 816 A300s and A310s built were ordered AFTER the 767 was launched in July 1978.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30905 posts, RR: 87
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5980 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
At least 75% (possibly more) of the 816 A300s and A310s built were ordered AFTER the 767 was launched in July 1978.

And a good chunk of 767s were ordered and delivered after the A330 was launched.

Still doesn't stop Airbus Aficionados from constantly crowing the A330 killed the 767. *shrug*

And even if the 767 had never existed, the A330 would have killed both families dead.

[Edited 2012-01-05 18:16:22]

User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 563 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5970 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
I firmly believe the only airlines that want a new 757 are the fantasy ones we a.net members run.

Amen. Can this thread now be closed to join all the other 757 (which I too love) threads on this same topic? It's not like there won't be in February.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8552 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5954 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 22):
With all due respect to the site, the search capability ain't the best.

If I am unsure whether a thread has been done before rather than relying on the search function on this site I actually do a google search including key words for the subject and 'airliners.net'. 9 times out of 10 it works better than the supposed search function which, frankly, has more bugs than the average windshield.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 SASMD82 : Yup! But how come? BTW. The 757 has a pretty long live (nearly 30 years now). Ever since I have been at the A-net forum I have never read this.....th
26 Post contains images PC12Fan : You gotta problem with that?!?! Good tip! I'll give it a try on my next endeavor.
27 SEPilot : The 757 was overpowered by most standards because of airline demands for it to operate off short runways. Remember, when it was designed there were fa
28 Post contains links NOTAXONROTAX : Most Over Discussed Anet Topics-Av,Non-Av,Mil,Site (by tugger Oct 31 2011 in Site Related) Reply 4. Anyways, I am in a minority but I think the 757 is
29 skipness1E : Heavens I agree, beautiful aircraft *unless* it's cartwheeling upside down in something of a fireball. That's not a good start to one's day. Anyhoo w
30 N62NA : Whenever I read comments like this, I just shake my head in wonderment. If you are so agitated by a topic that has been discussed in the past being d
31 ukoverlander : If you want a plane to be successful these days it has to be economically viable. We can all wax lyrical and make nostalgic platitudes about these ol
32 SEPilot : Well, since the only person ever to fly the Spruce Goose reportedly commented afterward that it was a death trap, I would say it is rather unlikely.
33 holzmann : Like many, I too have some sort of connection with the 757 and don't want to see it go. I personally believe the 757-200ER with sharklets to be the be
34 Post contains images FoxRomeo : It's NG. There's no such aircraft as 737NGX......... The NGX is a simulation.
35 RoseFlyer : I've said it before, but will again. The range and growth from the A320 and 737NG killed the 757 program. It took away about 90% of the 757 market. Th
36 packcheer : I agree with everyone so far. But, I think that in the future the demand for a narrowbody to do long work will be needed. The company that can figure
37 U2380 : They're clearly not under-powered, they wouldn't be certified if they were. What they are is 'correctly-powered' as opposed to 'over-powered' For all
38 ukoverlander : "under powered"....."cheaper is better"........"good planes"??? - How are the 737 and A320 families "underpowered"? - "Cheaper is better" than what e
39 ghifty : 757NG, as much as I want it (which doesn't even matter..), will never happen. Boeing has been slimming down it's offerings as it's probably more cost-
40 homsar : This topic should get a semi-permanent thread that just gets a new number every time it gets too big (like "Such and such aviation #4", or "A380 produ
41 darksnowynight : Who cares? I've been reading these for years, and am not bored or annoyed in the least. Done or no, this topic and others like it are the reason this
42 homsar : Perhaps he was referring to a short production run? But even still, it's hard to really say that an aircraft's production run was particularly long o
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