commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5004 times:
Quoting pecoua (Thread starter): What month and year did AA start serving Hawaii?
AA010 HNL 1345 LAX 2050 747 (flight continued to JFK)
AA008 HNL 1655 LAX 2359 D10 (flight continued to DFW)
AA166 HNL 2300 LAX 0604+ D10 (flight continued to ORD)
FLFlyGuy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 238 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4795 times:
AA had previously served HNL with 707 equipment from STL as part of its South Pacific service in the 1960s-1970s timeframe (sorry, don't have exact dates handy).
But I still remember the billboard campaign for HNL in the early 80's......the billboards just said
AAloha!
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6468 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4691 times:
milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1855 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4656 times:
AA opened up their routes to the South Pacific via HNL in on August 1, 1970, They were granted the routes on July 22, 1969, by then President Richard Nixon. The CAB had recommended American be given routes in the Trans Pacific route case of 1968 but that award was vetoed by President Lyndon Johnson. Then, Nixon, less than a month after taking office on January 20, 1969, cancelled the awards on February 15, 1969. U.S. Presidents had veto power over international route awards, unlike domestic ones. American flew to HNL from STL but was allowed to do so from STL, ORD, BOS and NYC and other inland points but not from west coast cities under that award. When American tried to build traffic by adding two more flights a week from the US to Australia, the Australian Government objected. In December, 1973, American swapped their authority from HNL to Australia, New Zealand and Fiji and the authority from NYC and ORD to HNL to Pan American in exchange for Pan Am's routes to Bermuda, Barbados, and Santa Domingo. They kept the routes from BOS and STL to HNL, and operated STL-HNL for a short period of time on a several times a week basis, not daily.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2042 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4545 times:
Quoting milesrich (Reply 4): and operated STL-HNL for a short period of time on a several times a week basis, not daily.
AA suspended STL-HNL on Mar 1, 1977. At one point in 1976, AA flew STL-SFO-HNL, with no local passengers on SFO-HNL.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2235 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4348 times:
ghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 763 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3387 times:
Quoting FLFlyGuy (Reply 2):
AA had previously served HNL with 707 equipment from STL as part of its South Pacific service in the 1960s-1970s timeframe (sorry, don't have exact dates handy).
But I still remember the billboard campaign for HNL in the early 80's......the billboards just said
AAloha!
You don't have to remember anymore, just reminisce! I do have to say I like the ad itself, though the false advertising is upsetting (if it's true the route was serviced with a 707).
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2235 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2878 times:
Quoting ghifty (Reply 8): though the false advertising is upsetting (if it's true the route was serviced with a 707).
I don't think there is any false advertising. The December 17, 1980 service that I assume your ad is referring to, was starting using 747s, as documented in Reply #1 above. The 707 service was many years before that in the 1970s.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2559 times:
The advertisement could be for DFW to HNL flights nonstop.
commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2500 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10): The advertisement could be for DFW to HNL flights nonstop.
It isn't. It's for the post-deregulation resumption of AA service to Honolulu which, as stated, began on 17 December 1980 with 3x daily flights from LAX to HNL, one of which was, indeed, on a 747.
ghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 763 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2319 times:
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 9): I don't think there is any false advertising. The December 17, 1980 service that I assume your ad is referring to, was starting using 747s, as documented in Reply #1 above. The 707 service was many years before that in the 1970s.
I suppose so. The 1980's is way before "my time." When were 707's retired out of US revenue service? 80's?
tan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1847 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2172 times:
Quoting ghifty (Reply 12): When were 707's retired out of US revenue service? 80's?
As best I recall, for AA, it was Sept. 1981..probably around the 29th or so sticks in my mind but it also could have been a schedule change right after Labor Day weekend. I believe it was an EWR to ORD segment.
I recall the timetables had "saluting the retiring 707" on the cover.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21488 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2127 times:
Quoting tan flyr (Reply 13): Quoting ghifty (Reply 12):
When were 707's retired out of US revenue service? 80's?
As best I recall, for AA, it was Sept. 1981..probably around the 29th or so sticks in my mind but it also could have been a schedule change right after Labor Day weekend. I believe it was an EWR to ORD segment.
Following from AA's history timeline for the 1980s in their website:
With fuel costs soaring, American accelerated the retirement of the Boeing 707 fleet in 1980. By August 1981, American had retired all its Boeing 707 aircraft, including their freighters.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1926 times:
timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6468 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1831 times:
If you mean any airline, then 1974. If you mean AA, maybe 1982?
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2042 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1812 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15): when did DFW to HNL nonstop start ?
June, 1981, as part of AA's huge buildup of DFW that summer (AA also added DFW-PDX /AMA /LBB /MAF /SHV /BTR /JAN /BHM /MCO in Jun 81).
AA was awarded DAL-HNL authority in 1969, as part of the infamous South Pacific route case, but never flew the route due to restrictions placed on AA's authority that made the route uneconomic. AA's Dallas-HNL authority went to PA as part of the PA / AA route swap, and PA briefly flew JFK-DFW-HNL after the swap took effect.
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1747 times:
Quoting commavia (Reply 11): It isn't. It's for the post-deregulation resumption of AA service to Honolulu which, as stated, began on 17 December 1980 with 3x daily flights from LAX to HNL
So are you saying that that is when LAX-HNL service first began? If not, when?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2160 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1608 times:
AA010 HNL 1345 LAX 2050 747 (flight continued to JFK)
So does this mean AA overnighted a 747 for about 18 hours in HNL? How would theat be very good utilization of a rather large aircraft considering how few they had when this service started?
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1540 times:
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 18): So are you saying that that is when LAX-HNL service first began? If not, when?
For AA, yes, I believe so. As discussed, AA had previously served Hawaii, but I don't believe ever from LAX before, and when AA began flying to Hawaii on 17 December 1980, it was all from LAX - and that began the present continuous, uninterrupted AA service to Hawaii that has continued ever since.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 19): So does this mean AA overnighted a 747 for about 18 hours in HNL? How would theat be very good utilization of a rather large aircraft considering how few they had when this service started?
Back then, utilization was atrocious in many cases. It was the very beginning of the concept of hubs and schedule banks, at airlines - well, AA, at least - would often schedule airplanes horrendously inefficiently in order for them to perfectly align with schedule banks. I believe that is roughly what happened in the case of the initial LAX-HNL schedule - although LAX certainly wasn't a "hub" back then, AA did time the LAX-HNL-LAX flights for connections (again, from DFW/ORD/JFK in particular).
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2160 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1523 times:
Quoting commavia (Reply 20): Back then, utilization was atrocious in many cases. It was the very beginning of the concept of hubs and schedule banks, at airlines - well, AA, at least - would often schedule airplanes horrendously inefficiently in order for them to perfectly align with schedule banks. I believe that is roughly what happened in the case of the initial LAX-HNL schedule - although LAX certainly wasn't a "hub" back then, AA did time the LAX-HNL-LAX flights for connections (again, from DFW/ORD/JFK in particular).
AA010 HNL 1345 LAX 2050 747 (flight continued to JFK)
AA008 HNL 1655 LAX 2359 D10 (flight continued to DFW)
AA166 HNL 2300 LAX 0604+ D10 (flight continued to ORD)
I agree the excessive 70's and early 80's had carriers using aircraft with far less efficiency than the carrier of today. Although based upon the schedule you posted with the original flight times, I found it odd that it appears the DC-10's had efficient turn arounds with 1-1 1/2 hours between flights, then this 747 sits for over 18 hours, who decded that and why?
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
doulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 349 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1441 times:
I remember around 1969 American had servvice to Hawaii and down to New Zealand and Australia with Boeing 707-323Bs until 1973 when they did a swap with Pan Am,that American would serve the carribean from New York and Pan Am do the Pacific routes.
United_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7159 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1223 times:
Another ad I found. I think this island was really Tahiti.
'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
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