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China Airlines To Axe Taipei-London Route?  
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

Looks as though China Airlines will no longer fly into London after the end of March. The Taiwanese airline initially started the TPE-LHR service with a three times a week frequency which was later cut to two flights a week.

Seems that operating such a long non-stop route has not proved profitable when stacked up against CX's numerous connections via HKG and Eva Air's competing direct service from LHR to TPE which touches down in BKK.

I believe CAL has only be on the London route for not much more than a year.


http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...hina-airlines-to-drop-london-route

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8473 times:

The UK-far east is unpredictable, on one hand you have Thai downsizing LHR to A340s and Dynasty maybe leaving, plus whatecer Air Asia X decides to do but then Korean and Air China are adding services to Gatwick!

I would still put a bet on Air Vietnam not lasting the year out at Gatwick though....


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8403 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):

I'm assuming you mean Vietnam Airlines?



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
plus whatecer Air Asia X decides to do

Yes, the situation re Air Asia X is strange. Have you seen what this carrier is charging for LGW-KUL return from the end of March ? There is a substantial fares increase.

For once, we can't say that CAL's poor performance on the London route is down to competition from the Gulf airlines because none of them serve TPE.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17361 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8139 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 3):
For once, we can't say that CAL's poor performance on the London route is down to competition from the Gulf airlines because none of them serve TPE.

There's next to nowhere to flow traffic beyond in either direction, either over LHR or TPE, so it has to work on the local market alone. That, plus TPE is generally lower yield than mainland China incl. HKG, makes it a tough route to make work



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7980 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
That, plus TPE is generally lower yield than mainland China incl. HKG, makes it a tough route to make work

Agreed. I suppose that's why EVA Air does so well by routing its LHR-TPE flight via BKK. Although it may not carry many through pax between LHR and TPE, Eva Air carries a healthy number of pax on the LHR-BKK and BKK-TPE sectors.


User currently offlinekiwinlondon From New Zealand, joined Dec 2011, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

If this is true this would call into question the viability of the BNE-AKL sector as I suspect a number of PAX use CAL as a cheap(er) way of getting to the UK. This is most likely in particular for BNE pax. I think most pax out of AKL are TT only.

Kiwinlondon


User currently offlinelawair From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7753 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
The UK-far east is unpredictable, on one hand you have Thai downsizing LHR to A340s and Dynasty maybe leaving, plus whatecer Air Asia X decides to do but then Korean and Air China are adding services to Gatwick!

It is somewhat unpredictable overall but I believe the TG change (like perhaps all the other individual adjustments by other airlines) comes from circumstances specific to TG and Thailand. The change was announced in November during the height of the Bangkok flooding situation and the shutdown of Don Mueang Airport where their aircraft refurbishment was taking place (causing a delay for one 744 aircraft). I'm not sure if the aircraft delay has a part to play in this, but for sure a temporary decrease in demand caused TG to downgauge some routes and reduce frequencies to others (i.e. SYD). The same happened to the LHR route back in late 2008/early 2009 following the Suvarnabhumi airport shutdown. The 744 returns to LHR in late March of this year, and the A380 will supposedly take over a year or so after that.

[Edited 2012-01-10 10:32:32]

User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7370 times:

Airline Route reported today that CI will indeed end it's LHR flights, effective March 25th.


'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently onlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7120 times:
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Joining Skyteam probably makes CI having its own metal flying to LHR unnecessary. Would a stop en route like BR have helped? They could have put a A330 on which would be more fuel efficient as well.
The new ASA last year allow even more LHR-Taiwan flights to 14/week. What were the government officials thinking? Could a cargo flight make more sense to LHR but thats capped at 3 /week still, though MAN had an increase to 10/week? Taiwanese carriers have 5th freedom for pax and cargo thru MAN in the new agreement but where would they go with that?
As for BNE/AKL, or for that matter SYD, they may still serve some function for Skyteam.


User currently offlinepsimpson From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6792 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
The UK-far east is unpredictable, on one hand you have Thai downsizing LHR to A340s and Dynasty maybe leaving, plus whatecer Air Asia X decides to do but then Korean and Air China are adding services to Gatwick

Thai to my knowledge Thai are still using B747-400s on the LHR services.
I do remember a few years ago, maybe 2008? Thai using A340-600s on the morning TG910/911 service, but i dont think they have been back since.


User currently offlineLAX888 From Singapore, joined Oct 2010, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6598 times:

Another report from BT on this route:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/asi...s-direct-taipei-london-service-und


User currently offlineseansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6564 times:

I was recently in Bangkok and I met some directors from China Airlines at the Lebua Hotel and when discussing options for travelling to the UK one of them mentioned that it was difficult to get to the UK from Taiwan as there were no direct flights. He was quickly corrected by another who said "We started flights!". Maybe a lack of advertising is something to do with why they are not doing too well on the route?

User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 12):
Maybe a lack of advertising is something to do with why they are not doing too well on the route?
http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...hina-airlines-to-drop-london-route

There's an interesting comment from "Stephen London" at the end of the news piece. He was saying there have been a number of cancellations in recent months and this has dissuaded business passengers from booking the non-stop flight.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 9):
Joining Skyteam probably makes CI having its own metal flying to LHR unnecessary. Would a stop en route like BR have helped?

Could this end up with TPE-AMS going nonstop to cater for a lot of European onestop connections instead of the TPE-BKK-AMS route which is served by KLM, CI and BR?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

These flights aren't able to overfly mainland China, so there is no doubt an additional fuel penalty affecting profitability. BR's BKK stop makes sense as it takes them around China anyway.

I flew on the second LHR-TPE service they operated, back in March 2010, and the flight was full.


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 14):
Could this end up with TPE-AMS going nonstop to cater for a lot of European onestop connections instead of the TPE-BKK-AMS route which is served by KLM, CI and BR?

Highly unlikely, about 80% of all passengers disembark in BKK, only 20% are heading further to TPE.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineebbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

So this is a hub to point that isn't working. Even as part of Skyteam to funnel pax through to Taipei? Hmmm


If hub to point won't bring in the traffic what will? Point to Point?


User currently onlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4685 times:
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IIRC they lose money on FCO for years but they have kept that going, though its not non stop. With a flight time of @14 hours + to LHR could a A332 do this? Can they make a technical stop somewhere en route? An A333 with one stop will still probably cost less than trying to fly non stop.

User currently offlineanonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 18):
With a flight time of @14 hours + to LHR could a A332 do this?

Maybe they'll revive TPE-LHR when they start getting their A359s (I presume they're using 747s now?)

[Edited 2012-01-11 15:20:33]


This is my signature.
User currently offlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

Quoting anonms (Reply 19):
I presume they're using 747s now?

Negative.
5293nm TPE-LHR China Airlines 343x2
World’s Longest Flights 17Jan Updates (by yeogeo Jan 3 2012 in Aviation Polls)

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24902 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
There's next to nowhere to flow traffic beyond in either direction, either over LHR or TPE, so it has to work on the local market alone.

Probably a fair number of connections to/from MNL.


User currently onlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4456 times:
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Actual route is probably closer to 6000nm+, they used to route over Hainan and northern Vietnam then south of the Himalayas, they cannot fly over central China/Tibet/Sinkiang and then the CIS like everyone else does which is why flight times are north of 14 hours.

User currently offlineanonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 20):
Negative.
5293nm TPE-LHR China Airlines 343x2
World’s Longest Flights 17Jan Updates (by yeogeo Jan 3 2012 in Aviation Polls)

yeo

Ah. Would running an A359 be more economical versus an A343 on that route (I will attempt to make another assumption in which I presume the A359 is more economical by default anyway and therefore am wondering if it would help make the route viable)?



This is my signature.
User currently offlinecelestar From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

This is a classic case of long distance thin route for CI
If you look at their current range of aircraft, CI is not in any favorable condition to fly such thin route profitably.
I don't think A330-300 can fly direct from Taipei to London. If CI has a fleet of longer range B77-200ER or A330-200, I think they can reach London from Taiwan and make some money out of it.
When will CI replace their aging B747-400 and get rid of the A340 they have?


25 anonms : 744: Not for a while, they're about halfway done refurbishing the old ones. 343: After A359 deliveries start.
26 trex8 : you are right a A332 could'nt fly to UK on the present routing they use and a 772ER won't be burning any less fuel than a A343 but may have some more
27 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Right, the last 4 passenger 744s built went to CI in 2004 and 2005. The very last (photo below) is still less than 7 years old, delivered April 26, 2
28 AV8AJET : Could they sell the slot in LHR to Delta? It would be nice to have a 2nd daily ATL-LHR flight! Just a thought.
29 celestar : A little off the subject. I think CI is poorly positioned itself in terms of their current fleet. Until they have the A350, which I have no idea when
30 panamair : The CI slot is useless for transatlantic flights; arrival at 4pm, and departure at 9pm.
31 trex8 : Except most of those 744s are paid for while BR is paying for the capital costs of the 77Ws. When lease rates for a 77w are north of a million a mont
32 LAX888 : Don't forget that KL (in Skyteam) also flies to TPE from AMS and probably takes a fair share of passengers from other European destinations, which con
33 Post contains links VV701 : This probably explains why: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16526235 Air Asia X are quitting Europe at the end ofr the current Winter Season.
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