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DL Interested In Acquiring AMR?  
User currently offlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 524 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39972 times:

Just heard on FOX Business News that according to The Wall Street Journal, DL may be interested in acquiring AMR. '' DL and TPG Capital are separately assessing possible bids for American Airlines parent AMR".
No further details.

[Edited 2012-01-12 09:55:23]

291 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39879 times:

Quoting audidudi (Thread starter):
No further details.

Its also being reported in the Wall Street Journal.

Any likely bid would come months from now at least according the free part of the article.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineAv8tor From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39815 times:

This will be the first step in breaking up AMR with assets going to Delta, United, US Airways etc..

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39778 times:

According to the article both Texas Pacific Group and DL are interested:

Quote:
Delta Air Lines Inc. and private equity firm TPG Capital are separately assessing possible bids for American Airlines parent AMR Corp., with hopes that AMR's troubles presents another opportunity for airline consolidation, people familiar with the matter said.

AMR filed for bankruptcy court protection in late November and is in the midst of restructuring its debt and cutting labor costs after it. Any bid for AMR likely would come several months from now. AMR could use the bankruptcy process to shed a trove of obligations that a buyer might be hesitant to assume.
Quote:
Delta has hired Blackstone Group as its financial adviser to assess a potential AMR bid, people familiar with the matter said. Blackstone helped Delta restructure in its 2005 bankruptcy.
Quote:
Delta has conducted an antitrust analysis on a possible tie-up with AMR and concluded that with some concessions, such a deal has a good chance of getting approval from regulators.

Here's what I think if DL makes a play:

DL would drop ORD. ORD would be become like Denver and Atlanta that went from two Legacy hub carriers to one legacy and one LCC.

DL would grab DFW, MIA, LAX.

DL would be required to divest all of AA's slots at LGA and JFK, however they would be able to acquire T-8 at JFK. The JFK slots would go into a pool to be bid upon (B6, WN, VX being the beneficiaries IMO). The LGA slots would be pursued by UA and WN.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39654 times:

Quoting audidudi (Thread starter):
Just heard on FOX Business News that according to The Wall Street Journal, DL may be interested in acquiring AMR. '' DL and TPG Capital are separately assessing possible bids for American Airlines parent AMR".
No further details.

Delta probably does not want all of AMR, but rather selected assets like MIA, DFW, and the JFK terminal. The key is figuring out how much of AA they'd be allowed to take by DOJ/DOT.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39594 times:

The actual article from WSJ says that Delta is assessing a bid as a potential further consolidation opportunity, believing that with some concessions they would stand a "good chance" of winning antitrust approval. I doubt it. I think Delta may well be interested in picking apart certain pieces of AMR, but I don't expect that to be successful. Like many others, I think AMR - particularly given some if its inherent strengths and advantages as it goes through this process - stands a very good chance of emerging from this process as an independent company (i.e., not picked apart and/or bought by another airline/airlines).

Separately, the article also mentioned that TPG is also examining a bid for AMR and - unlike Delta - has made contact with the company about such a proposal. This seems far more plausible. Not only does TPG have extensive experience (and success) in the airline industry, but TPG and AMR have a longstanding and positive relationship. I could absolutely see AMR bringing TPG into the fold in any restructuring and recapitalization.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39587 times:

Quoting Av8tor (Reply 3):
This will be the first step in breaking up AMR with assets going to Delta, United, US Airways etc..

DL will not be allowed to acquire any more slots at LGA (and probably not JFK), AA's T-8 is something I can see DL picking up. T-4 needed to be expanded anyway, with or without DL as a major tenant.

DFW (albeit a bit smaller), MIA and LAX fit perfectly into DL's network.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39523 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
DFW (albeit a bit smaller), MIA and LAX fit perfectly into DL's network.

I'm sorry - I just think the prospect of this is laughable. I simply do not see any way that any administration is going to allow one airline to grow that large through an acquisition. Hubs in ATL, JFK, DTW, MSP, DFW, MIA, SLC, and LAX? I have a hard time believing that would ever pass regulatory approval - even if it was just DFW/MIA/LAX.

I recognize the salivating that some are doing over the concept, but I think it's unrealistic.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7644 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39421 times:

If AA sheds 50-60% of itself in Chpt.11 no one really cares who buys them, but if they do not shed that much size, I don't see government approval of any purchase by DL or UA, US maybe.

User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39394 times:

Whoever DL is paying to do their "Anti-Trust Analysis" is obvioulsy touching their hand to a document and then saying, "Yep feels good to me." It took 47 years to get a slot swap through, no way this gets done (even though I would personally love it).

Maybe this is DL's way of going after WN. "You buy into my market by taking Airtran, I will take Numero Uno position in Dallas."



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39266 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 9):
If AA sheds 50-60% of itself in Chpt.11 no one really cares who buys them, but if they do not shed that much size, I don't see government approval of any purchase by DL or UA, US maybe.

If AMR shrinks by 50-60% in Chapter 11, AA will cease to exist. It's as simple as that. Not sure why anybody would expect that, seeing as that was far from the experience at Delta, United, and USAirways during their restructurings, during which all of them shrunk more in the 5-10% range, and considering that it is arguable that AMR is - in several ways - in a far stronger position than they were entering Chapter 11.

Thus, since I think it's far-fetched to see AA shrinking by half or more in bankruptcy, I think it's unlikely that this hypothetical Delta-AMR cherry-picking thing would ever receive regulatory approval.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39260 times:

Another example of why Chapter 11 needs to go.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39156 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 9):
If AA sheds 50-60% of itself in Chpt.11 no one really cares who buys them, but if they do not shed that much size, I don't see government approval of any purchase by DL or UA, US maybe.

There is no way that American is cutting itself in half. That would amount to keeping DFW, MIA and keeping either LAX or JFK. There is no way that American drops two cornerstones in bankruptcy. At the extreme, American sheds 25% of its total capacity (including mainline, Eagle and Connection) - that would entail cutting one of the cornerstones (LAX or NYC) and half of ORD.

IMO you won't see anything greater than 5-7.5% of its total ASMs (again, mainline, Eagle and Regional) - and that's short term. Remember, American spent the last decade cutting away the fat, its network is about as lean as it'll get, now they are trying to address overhead costs - leases and labor.


User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39161 times:

Would be a great move toward more consolidation and making a healthier US airline system. Bring it!


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39112 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
DL would grab DFW, MIA, LAX.

MIA for sure...that IMHO is the crown jewel.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39017 times:

What is not mentioned is the kind of bid Delta may offer.

What if they tried another variant of the Pan Am deal. They acquire one or two hubs along with the necessary equipment. Heck they could them

In all this recent history on mergers everyone forgets that these transactions were big in the 80s.

Of course in hindsight the deal was a last gasp for PA as DL quickly withdrew their support of PA. IT took longer than necessary but DL would not be where it is today in NY if it werent for this.

They still are NY focused however they could cut back on CVG and MSP if they got their hand on MIA and DFW


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 38886 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 6):
Separately, the article also mentioned that TPG is also examining a bid for AMR and - unlike Delta - has made contact with the company about such a proposal. This seems far more plausible.

   It's far more plausible that either a single private equity firm or a consortium of PE firms will provide the necessary equity to fund the bk exit than DL buying AA. A purchase by DL is politically undesirable on anti-trust grounds and the loss of employment at AA if AA were sold or carved up to various airlines. DL's interest may motivate the other partners in Oneworld to invest alongside the PE firm(s) to avoid losing their US partner.

It makes sense for DL to look and it should be expected that US will too, but looking isn't the same as buying or being able to complete the transaction.


User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 38825 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
I simply do not see any way that any administration is going to allow one airline to grow that large through an acquisition

exactly...all relevant agencies would throw up so many roadblocks its not funny. While many in the industry see consolidation as good and inevitable, the government seemingly doesn't. With the possible exception of US, I couldn't envision any other merger or acquisition will get any green light. Unless AA liquidates DL won't be cherry picking their assets.


User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 38828 times:

I think what could happen is that at some point BA will make nosies, again, about raising the foreign ownership levels in US airlines to 51%. BA will say that doing so will preserve competition jobs.

Compare that to the possibility of DL taking over AA and competition decreasing and jobs lost and there is a major dilema for the US Congress and President Obama in an election year.

[Edited 2012-01-12 10:41:35]

User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 38760 times:

If this were to happen, I would be buying stock of business aircraft manufacturers. More small cities being cut and less competition would drive businessmen/women to less productivity.

The only way I could see this happening is if USAirways and Delta go in and do a packaged bid to split up assets. I am definitely against this as I think the airline system is very healthy the way it is. No growth or very limited growth over the next 5 years is what I think would do well for the industry.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 38674 times:

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 17):
While many in the industry see consolidation as good and inevitable, the government seemingly doesn't.

I disagree - I think regulators in the last few years actually have woken up to the industry's chronic capital destruction problem, and have recognized the value and need for consolidation. Nonetheless, I think this has a limit. And allowing the nation's second largest airline to acquire its third largest, and in the process lock up around one third of the nation's airline capacity, is - I suspect - far beyond that limit.

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 17):
With the possible exception of US, I couldn't envision any other merger or acquisition will get any green light.

Agreed. While I'm not necessarily predicting or advocating it, I do think an AA-USAirways merger could get regulatory approval. I do not think the same is true of any AA-Delta transaction, short of something so limited and watered down so as to - in my estimation - make it not worth the time, money and effort for either party.

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 17):
Unless AA liquidates DL won't be cherry picking their assets.

  

Agreed.

[Edited 2012-01-12 10:46:00]

User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 38492 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 20):
I disagree - I think regulators in the last few years actually have woken up to the industry's chronic capital destruction problem, and have recognized the value and need for consolidation. Nonetheless, I think this has a limit.

I agree with your assessment overall ; I was speaking in terms of this particular match up. As you say, their acceptance has limits, and this scope of a merger well exceeds it. A domestic industry with 2 mega carriers, 1or 2 medium ones,and a few smaller ones is a scenario regulators would surely want to avoid.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1115 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 38519 times:

Clever move by Delta. They are trying to entice US Airways to make a bid. They want to muddle the process.

Now, the TPG bid on the other hand could very well succeed if the strategic partner were a Oneworld airline or two.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 38472 times:

Ironic that some of the same posters cheering this were the ones up in arms about US acquiring DL several years ago.

I guess there is no objectivity left.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 38421 times:

You guys forget that ultimately there is only one way to survive in the airline industry...and that is grow. and ultimately at some point the only way to grow is to buy competitors.

If US and DL were to come up with joint bid where DL gets JFK, MIA and LAX and US gets DFW, LGA and ORD I see no problem with this this...both carriers would be stronger. US (presumably keeping the AA brand) would then go into OW and you would have three very strong legacy carriers competing vigorously, with 2 very strong LCCs (WN and B6) and some nice niche player NK, AS and HA. Sounds like a sound air transportation system to me.

DL would have ATL, MIA, JFK, LAX, MSP, SLC and a small hub at LGA.
US (AA) would have PHX, DFW, CLT, PHL, ORD
UA would have EWR, IAD, ORD, DEN, IAH and SFO



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
25 dtw9 : So you're saying Delta would just close their second largest hub at DTW?
26 Post contains images kiwiandrew : I think we may have a winner here. I cannot believe that DL would seriously bid with any hope of being allowed to take over AA. I simply cannot imagi
27 LDVAviation : What you seem to forget is that all three of AA's major unions have a seat on the unsecured creditors committee. If they are scared of losing their j
28 TeamInTheSky : I got it Gents! This is FINALLY DL's way to get their hands on AS, which has been their target all along per this outlet.
29 rjm777ual : Wow good move by DL. If they do in fact buy AA, they can possibly open up more asian routes to compete with UA and their huge asian network.
30 srbmod : If DL is going to make a play for AA, I see it being something more along the lines of the abortive merger between UA and US about a decade ago. Some
31 catiii : Could it be a move by DL to force US' hand, and thus begin the industry consolidation endgame in the United States? There's no doubt in my mind that D
32 Viscount724 : Sounds like a very good solution to me. Even with recent consolidation the U.S. doesn't need as many carriers as it has. It would also make U.S. airl
33 Tdan : Won't happen unless AA is broken up into pieces and acquired by DL, UA and US due to antitrust issues. Don't think UA and US will sit on the sidelines
34 Macsog6 : Let's not forget that this would also require foreign regulatory approval. AA being acquired would likely mean the end of 1W as AA would be merged in
35 Post contains images jayspilot : First off I don't think it will happen and its just talk. Of course people at other carriers are going to try but I think that the asset holder at AA
36 deltaflyertoo : The reality is to get the US market fully balanced (its only half way there) an airline has to die. There is still too much capacity. For years peeps
37 LAXdude1023 : This may well be DL trying to force US to come out of hiding and reveal their intentions. I cannot see this passing any hurdles from a anti trust stan
38 commavia : There is no need for AMR to cease to exist in order for the U.S. airline industry to reach a sustainable, profitable equilibrium. Again, the U.S. air
39 1337Delta764 : If DL does buy out AMR, expect US Airways to quickly jump to Oneworld to fill in the void left by AA leaving.
40 OA412 : Let me begin by saying that I am generally against mergers (yes really), and really hope that AA remains a standalone carrier. However, I have always
41 Post contains images yellowtail : No, just missed that one. sorry to the dtw fans. I propose that as part of the a.net registration process that everyone must declare their loyalties
42 Post contains images fpofllflyboi : If and only if it happens, sounds like alot more job losses, more metal being placed in storage possibly, higher fares and the list I'm sure goes on.
43 avek00 : Antitrust law would not generally block a DL/AA combo depending on the concessions offered at a few key airports. There's nothing wrong, in and of it
44 1337Delta764 : One dilemma that DL will have to face is whether to keep the Delta name or the American name. Both names seem to be equally recognizable globally, so
45 micstatic : I agree, it is profitable now. But most in the industry are predicting a downward trend coming over the next few years. As stated above, a good move
46 Viscount724 : I think the AA name would be much better, at least in international markets, where many people have no idea who DL is or what country they're from. I
47 STT757 : Why wouldn't DL switch to OneWorld. BA is a much stronger partner than AF, which is having big financial problems right now.
48 Post contains images yellowtail : AA is generally a more recognizable name but Delta is a better global brand name. Will be hard to sell an intra-asian ticket with a brand such a AMER
49 mogandoCI : As supposed to you who is Switzerland incarnate ?
50 Post contains images SATexan : WSJ is now reporting that US Airways is also evaluating a possible bid for AMR; They have hired advisors to evaluate the same. This is getting interes
51 silentbob : Given the way DL has acted when other airlines have attempted to "intrude" on their hubs or core routes, it would be hard for DL to claim that effect
52 Viscount724 : It didn't seem to be a problem for Pan American, Swissair, British Airways, Air France, and many others, all of which over the years carried many tho
53 1337Delta764 : Here are some things that DL and AA share in common (not including fleet): - Common model of Y seat, the Weber 5751 (although DL will be using the B/E
54 TOMMY767 : Could it be possible that DL and US buy out AA and split it up? Is that even legal? MIA, DFW, LAX. DL has the momentum to make them profitable hubs an
55 commavia : How will a healthy AMR bring everybody else back into the red? On the contrary, a restructured AMR can be more competitive with other carriers who al
56 ScottB : Perhaps Delta's goal is to bid up the price for US, thus making the "new" American's capital structure less competitive after reorganization. Or perh
57 srbmod : Because they are one of the founders of SkyTeam and without DL, that alliance would likely be dissolved. I would highly doubt DL would leave SkyTeam,
58 catiii : One reason I can think of is that they have an approved JV with AF/KL on the books, and CDG isn't a slot constricted airport in the way LHR is. They
59 TOMMY767 : I recall DC Air. That merger would have been a pisser had it ever come to be. But that was created on the behalf of US/UA merging. In this situation,
60 DeltaMD90 : Lol of course the obvious posters taking the obvious positions. I'd love for it to happen, but I don't see if passing DOJ, even if concessions are mad
61 ripcordd : AA wont just sell 1 hub either DFW or MIA they are the future of the company and with MIA growing and a long list of future routes it will be a cash c
62 realsim : I don't see it happening at all. Not only there would be competition concerns, but also there would be a lot of political implications here: for examp
63 KC135TopBoom : I really hope this happens. I would love to see DL returning to DFW as a hub. DL could pick up more than T-8 at JFK, and slots at LGA. They would also
64 Post contains links srbmod : The airline industry of 2000-9/10/2001 was a completely different landscape that what the industry became after the 9/11 Attacks. I think that had th
65 AirGabon : DL will never leave SkyTeam because, not only of the JV, but also of the very strong links with AF, KL, AZ and even KE, AM and SU. OneWorld has less
66 klkla : This makes the most sense. From an anti-trust standpoint the only major assets DL could buy with no regulatory resistance would be the MIA and LAX op
67 jetlanta : Exactly, and if the surviving carrier were to agree to divest the majority of AA LGA/JFK slots to other carriers, there would be virtually no legal j
68 STT757 : If you read the Wall Street Journal article it's pretty clear DL is going into this without any misconceptions regarding getting approval (divestitur
69 NYCAdvantage : Maybe, but it also could be a genuine bid, Delta could see US as a real partner in this bid, they have worked together already, We can all agree that
70 ERJ170 : Hmm... I could see DL wanting the following of AAs: LHR slots Corporate Contracts B738s B777s B787 slots LAX route authorities Brazil route authoritie
71 STT757 : Considering DL has NWA's that they keep deferring I don't think it's a priority.
72 ERJ170 : A slot is a slot. Just because it's a 787 slot, as DL has shown, it could be transferred to a 77W slot.. with DL, all things are possible..
73 STT757 : Again DL has NWA's firm slots plus several dozen delivery slot options (which are probably better than AA's).
74 GSPSPOT : Are we just going to end up with our own version of the Soviet-era Aeroflot?? This is insanity! There are few enough choices as it is now.
75 peanuts : Surprised by some of the "definite no" answers. Never say never. History has proven many scenarios are possible. Anti trust fears are mostly unfounded
76 1337Delta764 : I wouldn't be so sure if DL would want to give up DFW. DL after all has had a hub in DFW for years until 2005. AA drove DL out of DFW, and if DL bough
77 United1 : No a slot is not just a slot at Boeing it's for that particular aircraft....and while buying AA would give them the potential to get a hold of whatev
78 commavia : Anything is possible, but I just do not see it - for countless reasons. I further see that plenty of A.net contributors who are big Delta and United
79 peanuts : Agreed. Most likely, yes. Personally: -AA emerge from Ch11 independent and remain so for a while: 50% -AA emerge from Ch11 and announce merger with U
80 1337Delta764 : If an AA breakup between DL and US occurs, here is what I expect for the fleet: -DL gets 763ERs, 772ERs and 738s -US gets 757s (which are RR-powered l
81 DeltaMD90 : Airlines have done stupid things in the past, but the fact that DL, US, and this other company are paying their lawyers lots of money to look into thi
82 GSPSPOT : Maybe, but I can't figure out WHY. DL/NW are still working out their relatively recent merger and US is still dealing with unpleasant repercussions o
83 delimit : Oh wow, lots of thoughts and I am on my phone so no quoting: Jetlanta, i repect you enormously but I really have to disagree. The DOJ would sue to blo
84 boilerla : ++ This. Working so far. There is nothing that makes a monopoly illegal, true. But engaging in monopolistic practices, in an industry with high barri
85 deltaflyertoo : Because lets for semantics say in a magical world gov't okays this. It would be a win win for US/DL. They could pull massive capacity out of market,
86 Post contains links unattendedbag : 6 hours, 84 replys and no link to the actual story? Potential suitors circle American Airlines[Edited 2012-01-12 20:11:07 by SA7700]
87 commavia : ... just like how USAirways paid their lawyers "lots of money" five years ago to take over Delta? For that matter, I see an AA-USAirways merger being
88 delimit : It's not Pan Am without MIA and South America.
89 jetlanta : Wouldn't logic also dictate that the carrier with more financial resources would likely win a bidding war? Listen, I think it is highly unlikely that
90 commavia : The new United is closest than any U.S. carrier has ever gotten to what I would consider a truly "perfect" network, with hubs located in exceptionall
91 DeltaMD90 : Yes, and it had a good chance of working. I never said they'd only shell out money if it was 100%, only if they had a good shot or reason to semantic
92 GSPSPOT : This merger may increase "consolidation" and improve the lot of some airline corporations, but what will it do to the person planning a honeymoon or v
93 delimit : If you are truly for free enterprise then consumer choice is not a factor. True free market capitalism depends on market forces to control corporate b
94 jetlanta : But I don't understand your legal justifications for this perspective. Your belief isn't the law. I vividly recall having this same discussion about
95 Cubsrule : The DL/US slot swap pretty clearly violated what you call the "mathematical formulas" and yet was approved with minimal concessions. Alfred Kahn was
96 CALPSAFltSkeds : If anyone's looking out for the AA employees, then a merger with DL may see the airline kind of broken up. I can't see the merged company be allowed t
97 delimit : Better coverage of South America and the Middle East than either DL or UA. As far as destinations served, DL and UA beat PA for Europe and probably As
98 enilria : The situation with DL has been brewing for a long time. I think it is mostly an attempt to throw a wrench in the process. I think all they really wan
99 Splitterz : Would UA sit idle during this process? I would like to see UA gain more control of ORD and LAX. If AA is being broken up....I don't see why UA would s
100 delimit : I think UA might want to actually finish the merger they are currently involved in before going looking for another one.
101 Splitterz : And on another point, wouldn't the labor issues be an absolute nightmare in some of the projected outcomes stemming from this board?
102 yellowtail : Trust me DL has been salivating at the LatAm AA MIA operations for some time
103 jetlanta : Really? Can you support that? But your point is well taken, those that think the government will stop this just "because" are deluding themselves. I
104 Cubsrule : I ran the numbers - at your request, as I recall, at the time DL and US proposed the swap. You can likely find the posts as easily as I can. There we
105 jcs17 : DL wants MIA as a hub and will use it just as AA does. You won't have flights to Albuquerque or Des Moines, but you will have them to nearly every ma
106 TSS : If US is genuinely interested in outright acquiring, merging with, or simply enjoying relatively headache-free codeshare synergies with AA, then I ca
107 luckyone : As is MIA, with a much less efficient runway configuration than ATL. Given the opportunity, Delta would drop all but a handful of their ATL-LatAm fli
108 anonms : If DL bought AA and reverted to their previous livery, then, yes we would get the American version of Soviet-era Aeroflot.
109 ericaasen : Umm, why is everyone assuming that ORD will be gone? Why would any airline just hand the keys to Chicago to UA?
110 DeltaMD90 : Keep ORD, competing with a strong UA and WN @ MDW while competing with MSP and DTW, or keep MSP and DTW strong, hubs with very little competition ser
111 ericaasen : I get that, and frankly that's why I don't see this merger happening, that and the New York mess. Do you try to keep DTW, MSP, and ORD? Do really wan
112 DeltaMD90 : This is what I think would end up happening anyway. I see where you are going now... DL wouldn't want ORD but I'm sure they'd try and give it to anot
113 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Not deriding your post at all, but I just have to comment on how ironic it is in this thread that you somehow weaved the death of F9 into it. It remi
114 Post contains images mikey72 : DL are so ambitious I can't see them thinking twice about saying 'au revoir' to AF and CDG and 'hello' to BA and LHR. Trouble is either option would s
115 bevisisback : If this were to happen, where would it leave BA and the rest of OW? I think BA in particular would be weaker without AA.
116 AAplat4life : Under bankruptcy rules, AMR management has at least 180 to present an exclusive plan of reorganization. AMR has plenty of cash. It went into bankruptc
117 mikey72 : With no American presence in OW...up sh*t creek without a paddle. A combined DL/AA (with AA's presence at LHR and relationship with BA) would have fa
118 bevisisback : Or BA would gain from joining SkyTeam. I doubt this would happen either - BA are pretty tight with QF in terms of kangaroo routes.
119 BobLoblaw : A breakup of AA with most assets going to Delta isnt going to happen. US has no incentive to help DL take over parts of AA since (Unlike AA helping UA
120 BobLoblaw : I dont think they would. ATL serves different traffic flows to Latin America than does MIA. ATL trafficf flows are more USA point of sale and have ve
121 staralliance85 : I think it would be iffy if regulators would approve this acquisition. DL might just be seeking for AA's hubs such as MIA, JFK ,LAX and DFW . If I wer
122 ATLTPA : Yours is a very thoughtful post. It's about the creditors. Post financial crisis, creditors are jittery and workout sessions are tougher than ever. P
123 UALWN : Today's newspapers seem to hint to a US+TPG bid for AA. That would actually make more sense.
124 par13del : So the perception is that if AA dies no other airline will be created? In the near term DL, US, WN and UA will cherry pick and attempt to satisfy the
125 jcs17 : DTW and MSP are much more efficient hubs than ORD and serve the same purpose as ORD without the delays and congestion. DL does plenty of business in
126 CHRISBA777ER : I love it - we're talking regulatory approval and hub wars, and you want to talk about a pink livery 767-400ER. At least you are consistent!
127 luckyone : I'm not sure I follow. United's headquarters was already in Chicago, so it wasn't like the entirety of both companies was moved there. Other than tha
128 LAXtoATL : AMR will be in bankruptcy roughly a year that $4bln will not last long. I think they were burning through a billion a quarter and they mortgaging ass
129 JasonCRH : Having the headquarters in Houston was never an option - it was ALWAYS going to be in Chicago.
130 Post contains links jetlanta : Like I said...this deal CAN get done. http://blogs.wsj.com/overheard/2012/...a-american-might-fly/?mod=yahoo_hs
131 ckfred : ORD isn't slot controlled. The slots disappeared around 2000. Now, there was an operations cap, limiting the arrival rate, I think from around 7am to
132 Flighty : A deal like this can NOT get done. It is illegal. If it were to get done, it would have to be dismantled. I have my doubts whether UA, as it sits toda
133 Post contains images AAIL86 : No, build up LAX, use ORD to keep UA honest and go for complete dominance at JFK and LGA. In the meantime dump MSP, CVG and SLC... AA's hubs- ATL exc
134 ckfred : You also have to wonder how much labor trouble DL would be getting with buying out AA. I know several AA pilots who have a very poor opinion of ALPA.
135 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : I think some of you Delta cheerleaders need some perspective: US Airways Proposes Merger With Delta (by PanAm_DC10 Nov 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)
136 mikey72 : Look you lot never mind all that American domestic guff.... ...what about us poor European saps this side of the pond.... Wouldn't this stick an A-BOM
137 Post contains images commavia : That cash burn - particularly as we move into the spring and summer, and as AA begins to reject unnecessarily costly elements of their business model
138 bevisisback : This is what makes me think it will never happen. The domestic issues would be enough of a headache. When you bring in everything else.... just my tw
139 LOWS : care to elaborate?
140 TOMMY767 : I think US wants ORD for certain. DL wants MIA, LHR slots, LAX and JFK T-8. I think both carriers would want DFW but it's a toss up. I think US techni
141 United1 : ...but unlike during UAs and DLs bankruptcy filings the industry itself is fairly healthy. UA and DL both have a significant amount of cash and finan
142 mikey72 : The cornerstone of AA at Terminal 8 is New York-London/Heathrow service, which, during the day, is nearly hourly, given that AA is now able to coordi
143 kgaiflyer : More probably, the complete Dallas infrastructure is the real cornerstone of AA services. AA headquarters, four different domestic and international
144 mikey72 : Agreed. I'm just saying that if DL did grab AA and has its eye on playing hardball across the Atlantic from a desired dominant position at JFK......
145 mpdpilot : This is right, if you look at past examples, the DOJ and DOT look at individual markets and the overall system and no carrier should be merging into
146 MasseyBrown : The EU/EC could, of course, refuse to allow a merger of the European routes. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see European objections to a Delta d
147 irishtexan : Off the original topic, but does Texas Pacific Group still have an ownership interest and board membership in Ryanair? Also seem to recall various TPG
148 MasseyBrown : In transportation, 40% of the market has traditionally been called an effective monopoly for anti-trust purposes. A creative DOJ/DOT could go after e
149 realsim : I don't understand why a lot of people here assume that DL will rule the decision and decide which hubs and aircraft they will keep and which will be
150 ual777uk : I think you are soo right, I think any suggestion that DL will just take over AA full stop is wishful thinking on some peoples parts and they need to
151 staralliance85 : Besides CLT, US doesn't offer AA much value! US has a ton of labor issues that would make maters at AA worse. UA did Not want US and I doubt AA will w
152 avek00 : Not really, as DL-AA would have very, very few city pair monopolies, and those which do exist can be remedied by offerings of gates (and where applic
153 nyc2theworld : Why wouldn't UA go after MIA...I don't think I've seen that suggested. This will give *A a great hub to connect Europe to South America.
154 chepos : I don't think this will happen. How quickly we forget the whole DL fighting off US Airways when Doug decided to do a hostile takeover. AMR might be ba
155 Alias1024 : I actually think there are two pieces that add more than CLT. To me the juicy bits of US are PHL and DCA. They totally dominate the fifth largest met
156 mikey72 : Well it's IAG isn't it which includes IB at MAD....is that the faint beat of the Tango I can hear.........South America beckons...if DL wants South A
157 Flighty : This all got explored during the age of rail. If there were no anti-trust laws, we would have 1 phone company... 1 oil company... probably an airline
158 ItalianFlyer : I think this is much ado about nothing. Corporate leadership has a fiduciary responsibility to explore optioins that would enhance operational strengt
159 Post contains images 1337Delta764 : If DL kept the AA name, perhaps this would be the logo:
160 TOMMY767 : NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
161 Post contains images CALPSAFltSkeds : No? How about this?
162 Post contains images Splitterz : This made my day. Thanks
163 MasseyBrown : Not lately, but it used to - and not that long ago. My personal opinion is that DL/NW and UA/CO should not have been permitted. Why pick MOB? You cou
164 klkla : I diasgree. I think DL would be happy if they got nothing but MIA. Even though it's relatively close to Atlanta it serves an entirely different purpo
165 Post contains links william : Interesting artilcle on the subject. An interesting point is that TPG is a AA friend. http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01...erican-airlines-in-bankru
166 BobLoblaw : There arent too many examples of creditors in the airline industry abandoning the original company for a takeover in Chapter 11 when top management d
167 BobLoblaw : DOJ and DOT are far more sophisticated than that. They dont care about route overlap like DFW-ATL but will care about total market concentration and
168 LAXtoATL : You don't know this until you see what the proposals are and that is if Delta even makes one. There is no way to judge which one is better until they
169 AADC10 : That is a good possibility. There were some fake rumors of UA making a second attempt at US that restarted the UA-CO merger. While US is not an obvio
170 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : I promised myself that I wasn't even going to post on this thread but you sir, has probably stated one of the few points that actually made sense. Id
171 delimit : Re: BA or AF...people saying that LHR vs CDG should figure into this decision are failing to consider just how much presence a combined AA/DL would ha
172 aircanada014 : Lets hope DL doesn't take over AA. I'd rather see AA survive than DL..
173 Post contains images Splitterz : I'd rather see F9 survive. Here's to the Animals! All in good fun.
174 Post contains links yendig : Is it just airlines that the US government insists on sub-50% foreign ownership of? I know the link is from Wikipedia, however I see that European au
175 toltommy : Not possible because its an airline, not an automaker. IIRC, no more that 49%, and no more than 25% of voting shares.
176 Post contains images point2point : Wow.... so much to comment on here.... How did F9 get into this? Maybe RAH will make a bid for AA as well as all of the others? After all, Brian Bedfo
177 avek00 : Airline antitrust analysis by DOJ/DOT tends to do the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. If AA and DL want to merge, as DL's advisors correctl
178 boilerla : One thing that has bothered me in all of this...can DL afford to buy AA? AA had $4 billion in cash on hand when it filed BK. It had a market cap of ar
179 jcs17 : Taxes in Illinois are horrible, both in terms of corporate and personal income taxes. Texas has no personal income tax, and they are very tax-friendl
180 mikey72 : BA : 18 744's, 14 777's, 2 767's and 2 A318's depart London for the U.S.A daily. That's 36 (high yielding) departures compared to 14 at AF. Factor in
181 CALPSAFltSkeds : Are you forgetting KL at AMS. I don't have a count of AMS-US flights on KL, but if DL dropped out of SkyTeam, I doubt they'd be flying nonstop to AMS
182 mikey72 : I agree and I can't answer your last question. I am just pointing out that asking what BA brings to the table with its American operations from Londo
183 anonms : In a time of war, commercial airlines may be chartered for military purposes, therefore foreign investment in airlines in the US cannot exceed 25%, a
184 boilerla : This has been brought up so many times that it's beginning to be more myth than legend. * UA was offered in 2008 $35 million in tax incentives to mov
185 mikey72 : Doesn't it all come down to survival of the fittest ? If AA goes bust because UA and NW etc were kept afloat when they should of cease trading years a
186 delimit : I ask what BA brings to the table barring LHR as a combined AA/DL already serve many of the same routes as BA. On a combined carrier you can fly from:
187 sofianec : DL buying AA is going to be terrible for competition and smaller markets. Should be blocked. DL is big enough, UA-CO is bigger that it should be, AA w
188 mikey72 : LAX, SFO, SAN, LAS, PHX, IAD, BWI, DEN, PHL, IAH, EWR, SEA, MCO, TPA... And what about frequency... Compared to LHR margins.....no offence but you can
189 jetlanta : But LHR/MAD offer vastly inferior connectivity for U.S.-originating traffic versus CDG/AMS. In the hypothetical scenario that DL/AA merge, there woul
190 delimit : The cities lost (i.e., not EWR; and IAD and BWI are the same place) are all easy connections on AA/DL. The only true loss probably would be DC. As for
191 mikey72 : Apart from 8x744 daily to JFK (!) quite a few of them are double daily.
192 Post contains links STT757 : Nonsense, Chicago and the State of Illinois are aggressive at seeking to lure Corporations to their State. That's how they got Boeing to move their H
193 CIDFlyer : DL/AA would be interesting, with the exception of ORD everything seems to balance out. Would it be too big? Thats the question....I still think if US/
194 ckfred : Part of the merger agreement was that HQ would be in Chicago. UA had gotten some tax breaks to move HQ from Elk Grove Village to Chicago. If the comb
195 LAXtoATL : The reason AA had so much cash on hand when it filed was because for the last 2 years they had been issuing new debt for that cash. The market capita
196 doraku : Is there any potential for a combined DL/US bid? A combined bid could be more attractive to shareholders if it resulted in two very strong airlines th
197 Post contains images bmacleod : Interesting just 4 or so years ago AA was the best performing of U.S. majors. I understand the situation that led them into Chapter 11, but how on ear
198 DeltaMD90 : I'm sure DL would favor a DL/US bid more than US would. US could probably take the whole thing without DL, and there are a few parts DL would not wan
199 BobLoblaw : Pfffffff......No company right now is going to move to IL. They have enough trouble keeping the companies they have. That was over 10 years ago. That
200 XT6Wagon : More I think about it, What UA, Delta, US, WN, and everyone else wants isn't AA to arrive the other side of chapter 11 whole. They don't even want to
201 BobLoblaw : Actually they were. PA had no domestic network, then over paid for NA. EA has lousy labor relations and was run by an astronaut. TW was probably in t
202 nimbus111 : DL would be unstoppable.
203 DeltaMD90 : I don't think it'll happen either, but DL/NW happened and UA/CO happened, both bigger than UA/US I believe...
204 Post contains links and images yendig : Aaahhhh, that makes it clear - thanks You mean, like this....? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16548595
205 jcs17 : I also forgot to mention that DL would love to acquire AA's fleet of 738s, 763s, and 772s. Personally, I love DL's Airbus narrow-bodies (they beat th
206 aviationbuff08 : Which is why I believe AA placed such a large order with both aircraft manufactures not long before filing Chapter 11. It is by far in the best inter
207 mikey72 : It's quite amusing how bitchy you Americans are to each other about your airlines. I mean I know I'm a Brit and I'm not fond of VS but that's only be
208 LAXdude1023 : I think so too. I look at people who wish for an airline to go under as simply ignorant of what they are truly wishing for. Thats a lot of people tha
209 chepos : Vety well said LaxDude, anyone who wishes any airline to go under is ignorant and obviously either does not work in the airline business or has no fam
210 jfk777 : AA is where it is by trying to do the right thing for its people, keep the pensions whole and avoid Bankruptcy. After making a "sacrifice" in 2003 th
211 AAIL86 : "2008" came along because a lot of large companies, specifically banks, went for the route of greed-at-any-cost. Are you suggesting that all companie
212 yellowtail : There is an airline with plenty of cash that could (and might want to) be involved in any hypothetical AA breakup and selloff...WN. WN would love to g
213 luckyone : That would be biting off way more than they could chew at once, and would probably result in a fast demise of Southwest Airlines. They cannot absorb
214 mikey72 : Look at it this way - when this is all over AA will be the last great American airline still in its original form. No mongrel like patchworked togeth
215 luckyone : Albeit one formed by mergers and corporate plundering, and significantly reduced in size.
216 STT757 : Except for what it acquired from Air Cal, Reno Air, Eastern Air lines, Continental airllines, TWA etc..
217 anonms : I think the only things out of all of those that weren't gutted was what they got from Eastern. Which still means that for the most part, AA isn't a
218 homsar : If DL is so hot to shed the MD-90s for 737s, why are they buying a bunch more MD-90s?
219 nomorerjs : DL would dump DTW and MSP in favor of ORD due to the strong O&D at ORD and give that to TPG (Texas Pacific Group, look at their TXU buy, oh boy),
220 TeamInTheSky : I think that is a bit unfair as I follow British Aviation threads quite closely since I am transplant here and the vitriol against BA or VS can be in
221 flyguy89 : I don't think it's so much that AA fans are "at peace" with a potential US buy-out so much as we concede that an AA-US merger at least makes semi-log
222 Coronado : AA essentially is a 2 hub airline (DFW and MIA) and both of these hubs would fit in well with DL current operation without creating any conflicting ro
223 DeltaMD90 : Yes, DL should dump their 2nd and 3rd largest hubs that have very little competition to go up against a stronger UA @ ORD with WN just down the stree
224 LDVAviation : Here's another reason why DL is unlikely to merge with AA: Show me the money. The FT is reporting today in an article about Virgin Atlantic that sourc
225 WESTERN737800 : I think DFW would fit in the DL network very nicely. It would probaly mean the end of MEM though. I dont know enouth about the MIA hub to know if it w
226 polot : I am sure DL would be more willing to spend more money for the valuable parts of AA than for a strategic partnership with VS. It's a question of cost
227 jetlanta : You are kidding, right? The VS price was too high because VS isn't worth it...not because DL can't afford it.
228 LAXtoATL : So you are suggesting that because Delta management didn't want to spend a large sum on VS, that it also means that they wouldn't want to spend on AA
229 BobLoblaw : Because a US/AA tie up doesnt result in as much market concentration as a DL/AA tie up does. Also with US/AA the AA name and brand stays.
230 ericaasen : Yes, and give up arguably two of the best airports in the US for a rat and cockroach infested terminal from the 60s. The DL guys were telling me the
231 DeltaMD90 : Yes, great point, one that I forgot to mention. If DL *did* buy AA and wanted to get rid of ORD, they wouldn't just de-hub ORD. Of course they'd sell
232 mikey72 : UA/CO and DL/NW not 'quite' the same thing as what you mention though. I would of thought anyway. Four of the big six now two....
233 TSS : DL had a hub at DFW that fit in well with their network and shut it down. Granted, the competitive landscape at DFW would be quite different without
234 Cubsrule : DTW, ATL and MSP are all out of the way for transcon routes involving a big swath of the country (roughly from Omaha to Houston to Nashville to Cleve
235 bmacleod : I get goose bumps at even thinking DL setting up a hub at ORD. Keeping ATL, LAX, JFK from choking is one thing adding ORD to the mix borders on catas
236 luckyone : Would you really try to call Omaha/Houston to LAX or NYC a transcon? That's quite a stretch.
237 tharanga : I don't see why 30%, 40%, or 51% foreign ownership would preclude the government from chartering the aircraft for military needs. If you're that worr
238 Cubsrule : Regardless of what you call them, DL doesn't have a good hub for them.
239 LAXdude1023 : DFW is a much larger local market than MSP or DTW, but I also dont know if DFW would be of huge use to DL beyond flights to major O&D markets, NR
240 XT6Wagon : China buys 51% of your airlines. You do something China doesn't like, suddenly all your airlines no long serve your nation at all. Now replace "China
241 luckyone : They have multiple. SLC for passengers connecting West, and they have, not one, not two, but three (and maybe five if you count CVG and MEMconnectivi
242 Cubsrule : Sure, but they are inferior. Isn't that the whole point?
243 LAXdude1023 : I can tell you as a DFW area resident, I would much rather see AA fall into the hands of US than DL assuming that AA gets bought out. Why? -US needs
244 tharanga : You wouldn't allow that sort of market consolidation in the first place, from a single owner (foreign or domestic) or single set of state-backed owne
245 Ken777 : Why should any airline (or other type of company) who has been through bankruptcy be allowed to buy another company in, or exiting, Ch 11? Taxpayers h
246 Post contains links STT757 : Twice, 1983 and 1990. It was the Texas Pacific Group, whom we are discussing in this thread regarding their interest in AA, and the leadership of Gor
247 DeltaMD90 : The industry was (and maybe still is) way too populated. Would you rather the companies merge and reduce capacity to a reasonable level or have a com
248 tharanga : Why not? Should you be forever be forced to wear a scarlet letter because you went through Chapter 11 once, even though you're healthy now? How, exac
249 mikey72 : Would it be true to say that the best option would be for a US AA combination ? I mean hasn't DL already 'shot its bolt' so to speak regards mergers w
250 MasseyBrown : The United States used to apply that theory to ocean shipping also, but gave it up as too expensive (you could say that the unions priced themselves
251 DeltaMD90 : Ok then have smaller players, but a couple less than we had right after 9/11. Or have the same number of players but not complain when the fares goes
252 LAXtoATL : Please elaborate what you are referring to. I'm not sure you understand how chapter 11 bankruptcy works. Taxpayers don't foot the bill, liabilities a
253 doraku : The industry has to reach a feasibility point where it can sustain profits under current (and future) economic conditions, in which we should expect f
254 UALWN : However, foreign ownership is not limited in other industries that seem at least as "strategically important" as air transportation: banking, energy,
255 Post contains images AAIL86 : What you are perhaps forgetting is that the US merchant marine was never really dominant during the 20th century, especially in terms of passenger op
256 tharanga : I agree with most of what you wrote, but check the facts here - I don't think DL received any bailout after 9/11. The list of airlines that did is sm
257 CIDFlyer : I really hope for a US/AA tie up. As it is I split my flying between AA and DL and have miles with both, but especially out here in the midwest and my
258 luckyone : Quoting luckyone (Reply 241): They have multiple. "Sure, but they are inferior. Isn't that the whole point?" They aren't inferior. They serve the sam
259 SEPilot : This is very shortsighted and misses the point. With too many competitors where we need airlines with essentially nationwide coverage you get cutthro
260 LAXtoATL : I am almost certain that Delta received bailout money after 9/11. I will have to fact check (or someone else that knows off the top of their head) bu
261 tharanga : Keep checking. The airlines all went to lobby for the bailouts, but the media didn't do as good a job of reporting on what actually happened afterwar
262 Cubsrule : No. Why would I fly BNA-ATL-SAN when I can fly BNA-DFW/IAH/HOU/PHX-SAN and be there an hour quicker?
263 jetlanta : Delta did get compensated for the Feds shutting down the business for a few days. They did not participate in the loan program. Its easy to forget th
264 United1 : IIRC I think of the majors only US and F9 were part of the loan program....
265 luckyone : I'm not sure why you would either...if you could. But the fact is you can't. -The only 1-hour advantage anybody has is WN with the the once daily non
266 packcheer : Think about this from the other side. If AA is in a position to be taking bids (depending on how the Chapter 11 stuff starts working out), I don't see
267 MasseyBrown : You are correct that the US Merchant marine was not dominant except for a few years after a couple of wars; but the USGovt subsidized the merchant ma
268 beardown91737 : That was because of the need for wires or pipes to be laid to provide service. Having competing pipes and wires duplicating and crisscrossing each ot
269 mikey72 : Andrew Lobbenberg, analyst at RBS, says a Delta-AMR group would be tempted to have a transatlantic joint venture with IAG rather than Air France-KLM,
270 TeamInTheSky : I think the economic reality is that there will be job loses. That is the harsh truth when a firm goes bankrupt. Now I can completely understand your
271 ual777uk : I just wonder if DL did get AA, what name would survive. My money is on AA. I might add that I dont think for one minute it will happen.
272 LAXtoATL : Checked and confirmed. As I mentioned before there were two parts to the bailout and I think you are confusing the second part (the loan program) as
273 STT757 : UA had to divest every single one of their EWR slots to gain approval for their merger with CO, and UA only had 18 daily flights at EWR. There's no w
274 Post contains links NYCAdvantage : US wants to grow, and sure they could go alone and Propose a good deal to take all, But I feel Boeing will be the first one to oppose and then the wo
275 NYCAdvantage : Agree, I Wonder if this ever happens, If DL divest all of AA slots at LGA plus some of their own slots, could they keep all of AA slots at JFK?[Edite
276 Cubsrule : Maybe we ought to ask a different question: why would DL want to carry me more miles at a lower average fare than every other reporting airline (with
277 STT757 : They might try that to win approval, or just auction off the AA JFK and LGA slots to the highest bidder. It worked out well with the slot swap auctio
278 LAXtoATL : That is interesting. It certainly would be great for DL, they would be able to build a true a hub at JFK and use LGA for strictly for O&D. Giving
279 Cubsrule : Flying WN from LGA versus schlepping to JFK or EWR just to fly a legacy seems like a pretty easy choice to me if schedules are comparable.
280 yellowtail : UA in control at EWR, DL at JFK and US/AA and WN at LGA seems like a perfectly viable situation for me and I would suspect would pass regulatory appr
281 CALPSAFltSkeds : Not saying this is good or bad, but such a change could fundamentally change NYC air service. Just think of what would happen if LGA goes to WN. All
282 LAXtoATL : In that scenario DL would still have a large O&D operation at LGA, so you wouldn't have to schlep to JFK or EWR just to fly a legacy. I would exp
283 PIEAvantiP180 : I don't think that DL would have to give up every slot they aquired at JFK/LGA. I bet that a divestiture in the range of 60-70% at each airport would
284 b727fa : It could be a way to force AMR labor to jump into the union bed that is US as the labor force at AA will not tolerate being non-union. Think of it th
285 panamair : DL would/should not give up LGA slots for more at JFK....LGA is much more valuable than JFK for most NYC O&D traffic. People will still be forced
286 jetlanta : Ditto. DL would NEVER abandon LGA (to a LFC much less) in favor of JFK. It might look good on paper, but that paper clearly has no revenue data on it
287 nomorerjs : If DL takes over AA, the complex on Amon Carter will be a ghost town! Although, that nice mail/freight complex just south of India (taxi way south of
288 tharanga : Interesting - thank you for checking into that. I must have forgotten the other part of the story - was that simply a cash grant as compensation for
289 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Anyway, DL will be holding their Q4 podcast on 25 JAN just as an FYI. They've been tight lipped about the whole AA thing but that would be your time t
290 LAXtoATL : no problem. that is my understanding.
291 Post contains links LipeGIG : This thread become too long. Please continue discussions on the second part : DL Interested In Acquiring AMR (Part 2)? (by LipeGIG Jan 17 2012 in Civi
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