g500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 726 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 28884 times:
I believe the Citation X (Cessna 750) can go 9.2, normal crusing speeds range from 8.6 to 8.8
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6520 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 28786 times:
As far commercial, carrying pax for airlines, nothing's faster than the 744..as far as I know.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5318 posts, RR: 47 Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 28714 times:
I believe the Convair 880 was one of the fastest commercial aircraft (I believe they were around in the 70s) and obviously the Concorde
zhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 28601 times:
Speedbird128 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1136 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 28356 times:
Quoting g500 (Reply 1): I believe the Citation X (Cessna 750) can go 9.2, normal crusing speeds range from 8.6 to 8.8
A little slower, perhaps, at M0.92. No hypersonic planes yet - :-P
The Gulfstream 6 is touted to be M0.925. Splitting hairs really.
Non biz territory, with current models in the sky, A380 is Mmo 0.89, and I imagine the B744 about the same. I know ECON CRZ for the B744 is M0.855... When I last flew the A380 with EK they were cruising a M0.875. I do not know if that was faster than normal...
mhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 378 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 28163 times:
Was my Eagle pilot lying when he told me the CR7 was one of the fastest commercial aircraft? On my ORDDEN flight a month ago he said he'd get it up to .87ish.
I remember the 744 and the 727 as also being particularly fast. With a tailwind I think the 737s can get into the upper .8s also but that is just from flightaware observations. Most of these speed differences are not significant enough to warrant a change in block schedules.
Siren From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 301 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 28002 times:
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 6): With a tailwind I think the 737s can get into the upper .8s
I hope you don't take offense to this, but I do want to point out that this statement is factually incorrect.
Tailwinds or headwinds do not affect a plane's speed in the air in any way, shape or form. Tailwinds or headwinds only affect the measure of "ground speed" - ie: the speed the plane is moving relative to the ground. You could be in a 744 at 0.87 mach, but in a 150 knot headwind - you won't be going very fast relative to the ground.
The discussion is premised upon the maximum airspeed of currently flying commercial planes. As far as I know, the 747 is the fastest currently in service...
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19717 posts, RR: 56 Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 27865 times:
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 6): Was my Eagle pilot lying when he told me the CR7 was one of the fastest commercial aircraft? On my ORDDEN flight a month ago he said he'd get it up to .87ish.
CRJ Mmo is .85 if I'm not mistaken, so I very much doubt .87 was achieved.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
B777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1010 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 27809 times:
It all depends on how fast the airline wishes to fly, and in these days of expensive fuel that's quite often very close to ECON speed. In rough numbers, it goes something like this:
zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7726 posts, RR: 73 Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 27719 times:
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 6): Was my Eagle pilot lying when he told me the CR7 was one of the fastest commercial aircraft? On my ORDDEN flight a month ago he said he'd get it up to .87ish.
I do not believe the 0.87, however the CRJ is one of that fastest aircraft around in the approach configuration, somewhat faster than most aircraft of its size.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
airproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 553 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 27280 times:
Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):
A little slower, perhaps, at M0.92. No hypersonic planes yet - :-P
The Gulfstream 6 is touted to be M0.925. Splitting hairs really.
I believe there was a speed contest between Cessna and Gulfstream for the world's fastest bizjet.
When launching the G650, Gulf was ahead, but Cessna took back its first place with the wingleted Citation X, regaining the few small pieces of Mach laking this way...
But as you said, splitting hairs indeed
So as far as I know, the fastest one still in activity is, and remains, the Citation X.
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
mikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26883 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2): As far commercial, carrying pax for airlines, nothing's faster than the 744..as far as I know.
I can remember on many occasions being on a BA 744 that left later than a VS airbus on the same route and overtaking them and arriving substantially earlier.
(Much to the delight of the flight crew and passengers after being informed by them 'tongue in cheek' via the p.a)
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
C680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 531 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 26226 times:
Quoting airproxx (Reply 12): I believe there was a speed contest between Cessna and Gulfstream for the world's fastest bizjet.
When launching the G650, Gulf was ahead, but Cessna took back its first place with the wingleted Citation X, regaining the few small pieces of Mach laking this way...
Actually there is a very good natured rivalry between Cessna and Gulfstream for the title of fastest Business Jet. They get along because Cessna is a mid-size and Gulfstream is large cabin, so they do not see one another as competition.
It's a little confusing because Cessna makes two different planes: the Citation X, and the Citation TEN. Cessna is waiting for Gulfstream to certify the G650 at Mmo 0.925, then Cessna intends to announce the new Mmo for the Citation TEN (Probably Mm0 0.93)
The Citation TEN has a slightly longer cabin, winglets, and slightly updated and more powerful engines compared to the Citation X.
But I believe the Citation X is still the fastest (Mmo) certified civil aircraft in production today. And that's a mouth full.
Since the Citation X is used for part 135 operations, that makes it a commercial aircraft. (although not a scheduled airline)
airproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 553 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 25316 times:
Quoting C680 (Reply 14): It's a little confusing because Cessna makes two different planes: the Citation X, and the Citation TEN. Cessna is waiting for Gulfstream to certify the G650 at Mmo 0.925, then Cessna intends to announce the new Mmo for the Citation TEN (Probably Mm0 0.93)
Thanks for your lights
Quoting C680 (Reply 14): But I believe the Citation X is still the fastest (Mmo) certified civil aircraft in production today. And that's a mouth full.
I had a type rating for the CJ2 series a few years ago, and I'll always remember my visit at the Cessna's facilities and assembly lines.
A warm welcome from our Cessna's hosts.
Very interesting to see the Citation X line, and the fantastic bare shape of the fuselage. What a plane! It was well worth the visit... I'll always remember a X ship with "speed is life" written on each sides..
Definitely a great memory!
Cheers,
Dave
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
kalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 25290 times:
Tailwinds or headwinds do not affect a plane's speed in the air in any way, shape or form. Tailwinds or headwinds only affect the measure of "ground speed" - ie: the speed the plane is moving relative to the ground. You could be in a 744 at 0.87 mach, but in a 150 knot headwind - you won't be going very fast relative to the ground.
If I understand correctly, it is not that clear cut. While airspeed at given airframe configuration, load and engine settings does not change, most economic speed does change with en-route wind. Basically with headwind you want to go a bit faster, so you end up with less distance in the air. With tailwind, you may want to stay afloat a bit longer at lower speed and lower engine settings to let wind do the job and save some fuel.
boeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 934 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 22937 times:
Both the Convair 880 and B747SP were certified at M 0.92...ouch.
Highflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 594 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 22470 times:
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 6): Was my Eagle pilot lying when he told me the CR7 was one of the fastest commercial aircraft? On my ORDDEN flight a month ago he said he'd get it up to .87ish.
Isn't that the type of hyperbole you boast to a group of NFL cheerleaders onboard when you're attempting to get a date? The CRJ-700 isn't exactly a lead sled like a Boeing 737 classic but with an Mmo of .85 it isn't a 747 or an A380 either.
I recall an old corporate pilot recalling the days when he regularly flew straight pipe Lear 25s for a Las Vegas operator. Those old Lear 25Ds looked sexier than heck, made great fighter jet sounds on take-off and even at gross weights climbed like a homesick angel. However, with a wing swept only about 13 degrees at 25% MAC it was an aerodynamic turkey compared to todays Citation X and upcoming Gulfstream 650. A few unscrupulous operators even had a "go-fast" switch that deactivated the .81 Mmo overspeed warning; the Lear had the power to easily cruise at .85 with just a minor amount of aileron tip-buzz.
It worked great until a Lear disappeared over the Caribbean in turbulence and the Feds found out about the "go-fast" switch.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 22298 times:
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 13): I can remember on many occasions being on a BA 744 that left later than a VS airbus on the same route and overtaking them and arriving substantially earlier.
They must have lest pretty close to each other, and ... had ATC assistance getting to the NAT Tracks. As with a difference of M0.03, the difference on an Atlantic crossing would be about 15 minutes at the most. (And probably closer to 10 minutes).
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
HAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2467 posts, RR: 53 Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 22123 times:
Quoting kalvado (Reply 16):
If I understand correctly, it is not that clear cut. While airspeed at given airframe configuration, load and engine settings does not change, most economic speed does change with en-route wind. Basically with headwind you want to go a bit faster, so you end up with less distance in the air. With tailwind, you may want to stay afloat a bit longer at lower speed and lower engine settings to let wind do the job and save some fuel.
That's true, however the OP isn't talking about 'most economical' speed, but simple, absolute top speed. For that, you just look at the Mmo, and whichever aircraft has the highest number wins.
HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 21437 times:
I recall Boeing touting the 777 as faster than other models. Even had a documentary in which interviewed passengers said they purposely chose the 777 because it would get them to their destination faster. Does anyone else remember Boeing's claims re: the 777?
UAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 20801 times:
UAL
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 21): I recall Boeing touting the 777 as faster than other models.
The 777 has a faster cruise than the competition it has, the A330/340. However, I do not remember people purposely choosing this over the A340/330. But I don't doubt Boeing used that as a marketing scheme.
american762 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 20717 times:
American Eagle pilots typically argue the CRJ-700 is the fastest aircraft in the AMR fleet besides the 777. The CR7 wears the same engines as the much heavier -900 giving it it's high cruise speed I believe. I've witnessed FL410 and .83 on them.
Pan Am has a place of its' own. You call it the world, we call it home.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 20657 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2): As far commercial, carrying pax for airlines, nothing's faster than the 744..as far as I know.
Quoting boeing727 (Reply 17): Both the Convair 880 and B747SP were certified at M 0.92...ouch.
The 0.92 MMO is the same for every 747 model built since the 747-100, including the SP.
25 tb727: Yeah all you have to do is pull the CB and turn off the RH Stall switch so you don't get the pusher/puller. I would never go over .78 in the Learjet
26 airproxx: I remember talking to some pilots @ paris Le Bourget, flying a private B744 for a VIP operator based in the Middle East, who didn't care much about fu
27 KC135TopBoom: Actually on the CV-990, it was the "A" model that was the fastest commical jet of its day (CV-990A). It could go to M.95, but normal cruise was M.91
28 f4phantom: The VC-10, originally a passenger jet and still in service with the RAF was the fastest passenger jet for many years, i think it achieve around 0.86
29 acey559: Not quite that fast, but in indoc we were told the CR7 is the second fastest aircraft in the AMR fleet (AA and MQ combined) only behind the 777. Chic
30 Trijetsonly: As far as I know the Tu-154 was the second fastest commercial plane until the Concorde resigned. So I is supposed to be the fastest passenger aircraft
31 VC10er: I have used the most reliable source ever: an airline in-flight magazine In the airline magazines that feature their fleets and have both 747-4 and A3
32 sevenheavy: Of course, the reality (thanks Longhauler!) is substantially less sensational.... VS, at certain times of the year, have both a B744 and an A346 dail
33 rjm777ual: Isn't the MD-11 especially fast? I was on flightaware and I saw an Aeroflot Cargo MD-11 going 593 MPH!!!!!
34 md11dude: Odd I read somewhere the Dc-10 or MD-11 was right up there with the 744. The aircraft was able to go quite fast from what i read...of course at the co
35 Viscount724: As mentioned above the maximum operating Mach number (MMO) for all 747s is 0.92. It's 0.88 for the DC-10 and MD-11.
36 md11dude: Must have missed it ...thats moving right along! I recall being on an Austrian airlines A330 a while back, when We got passed by a Northwest DC-10 ov
37 nimbus111: all fighting for the top subsonic speed. the 744 looks the fastest for sure with the large swept back wings.
38 GSPflyer: Note that QF 11 (SYD-LAX, A380) has a scheduled duration of 13:40, while QF 107 (SYD-LAX, 747-400ER) is 13:35. On the return flight for both, QF 12 (A
40 longhauler: The B737NG and the A320 series are very close .. .within M0.01, under identical conditions, and with the same cost index. However, the B737-100/200/3
41 flightsimer: Wow, i cant believe nobody has mentioned the fact that the DC-8-43 broke the sound barrier in a shallow dive, even prior to the Concorde, which made i
43 acey559: Would that be due more to the fact that the 747 and A380 can take a more direct route while the 777s have to stick closer to land? I don't know how d
44 GSPflyer: The great circle routing for LAX-SYD doesn't even come close to ETOPS 207 (previous 777 ETOPS certification) restricted area, which is the shaded are
45 VC10er: My question is if a 747 can cruise naturally at 0.85, can, if wanted or tested could it hit Mach 1 without breaking apart? Or would it require Mr Scot
46 DocLightning: I believe that during testing, the 747 did exceed Mach 1 during a dive.
47 tdscanuck: Generally no. It's unusually fast on approach, not particularly in cruise. Flightaware shows groundspeed. With high tailwinds, you can easily see ove
49 DocLightning: On a BA 772 from EWR to LHR in early March, we exceeded 800MPH groundspeed and made the trip in 4:45. The trip home a month later was almost 9 hours.
50 flightsimer: That was just a fun fact i gave since nobody ever mentioned the DC-8... below that was its cruise speed.
51 mikey72: It happened...quite a few times...occasionally I was even on a 744 flightdeck to see a VS airbus jet disappear below and behind us. I'd say to arrive
52 gemuser: Not so! As far as I know DL does not have ETOPS 207 or 330 rating and VA most certainly do not. To actually operate ETOPS the aircraft type must be c
53 BlueSky1976: Tupolev Tu-154M is the fastest passenger plane currently. That's incorrect. Both A380 and 747 cruise speed is .85Ma. The 747-8 will cruise at .855 Ma
54 Larshjort: Technically the Concorde isn't certified to fly at speeds ove rmach 1 either, since the type certificate has been revoke /Lars
55 shankly: Agree, have just taken two A380 flights (EK002 and EK003) and both chipped along at 0.85, EK 003 reaching 40,000 before ToD. Its a magnificent aeropl
56 flyhigh@tom: That could be due to the Cost Index setting on the airbus? Lower the CI ...lower the cruising mach number. flight level for cruise and actual winds a
57 WAH64D: The engines are not designed to accept incoming air at supersonic speed. If you look at the intakes on any supersonic aircraft they are designed to s
58 GSPflyer: ETOPS 180 shaded on LAX-SYD: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LAX-SYD&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=180 The path comes close, but never touches the restrict
59 woodreau: I know others have already confirmed the falsehood. The MMO of a CR7 is M0.85 with a separate limitation of M0.83 in RVSM airspace. If you wanted to
60 art: Highest airliner cruise speeds I have read of were HS Trident @ 610mph, Convair 880 @ at 615mph and Convair 990 Coronado @ 620mph. Presuming these spe
61 Viscount724: On a 12 or 14 hour flight the difference is more likely to be closer to 40 minutes.
62 B777LRF: Unless you're stuck behind someone .... I came back from Hong Kong recently, riding in the cockpit of a 767 freighter. All the time over Russia we co
63 ukoverlander: I can't attest to this through personal experience but I have also heard of this. This specific example that I heard about was flights between Heathr
64 TOMMY767: I had no idea the 744 was the fastest and the CR7 was so unusually quick for an RJ. Great thread! I do know the A319/A320 on average is slower than a
65 BoeingGuy: Not that I'm aware. That wouldn't be allowed at Boeing AFAIK. You might be thinking of the CP Air DC-8 that exceeded Mach 1 during testing. That is s
66 Viscount724: The A320 family and all 737s from the -300 through 900ER have the same MMO of 0.82. As mentioned previously, all 747s have a MMO of 0.92. All 777s ar
67 B777LRF: I think your first statement falls somewhat short of reality. In the real world both the A32x and 737NG potter about at the same speed, which is arou
68 Mir: This is true of any engine, actually, not just supersonic ones. What you're thinking of is the fact that air behaves differently at supersonic speeds
69 cubastar: The 727 (and possibly the 707) was certificated at M.92 max. Where the 727 reigned supreme was that it could fly up to a maximum of 420 kts. Indicated
70 tdscanuck: No engines (other than scramjets) are, and that's not a problem for conventional jets going supersonic because the blunt-fronted trans-sonic nacelle
71 KC135TopBoom: That is normal cruise speed, not max speed. That is ground speed, he had a tailwind. So did CI-006, a B-747SP-09 in her famous 'swan dive' over the P
72 KC135TopBoom: If the QF B-747-400ER flight from SYD-DFW was flown at Mmo of .92M, it would only take 14 hours and 7 minutes. http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=S...
73 Viscount724: I don't think there's anything that clearly indicates it exceeded Mach 1 during the upset. I quickly scanned the NTSB report again but couldn't see a
74 BoeingGuy: The only ones that I know of that unintentionally broke the sound barrier are: PSA 1771 TWA 841[Edited 2012-01-15 17:21:13]
75 airbazar: Looking at actual flight paths on the same day, they are all pretty much the same. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...8/history/20120115/0740Z/KL
76 BoeingGuy: For reference, I believe normal cruise for the 787 will be about .85 Mach, or about .01 faster than the 777.
77 ADent: The pilot said he saw VMO (M.92) exceeded. It did drop 10,310 feet in 33 sec and do a 5.1g pullup. But I agree no definite data on supersonic flight.
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