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VS To Block IAG  
User currently offlineNomik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13602 times:

The FT reports that VS will pull out all the stops regarding IAG's prooposed takeovers:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9c57f...07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1jbt4d641
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e3442...07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1jbt4d641
This is VS's last-ditch stand that spells its demise as BA really goes for the jugular.
Let the battle commence!
Let VS join SkyTeam to take on the big boys!

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13579 times:
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I have been a fan of VS in the past. However, I feel they are just being silly here, they can't afford BD, they don't want BD, and if they end up with BD the almost certain result is that the combined carrier will go belly up within 6 months under the weight of BD's debt.


While in principal I would prefer a solution other than IAG taking over BD ( and before anyone accuses me of being anti- BA, I also opposed the AZ/AP deal and I would be equally opposed to any attempt by LH to take over Air Berlin, I don't think it is good in any country for the number one player to absorb the number two player) in practice it is the only potentially viable solution that may result in a large number of current BD staff getting to keep their jobs.

At this stage VS almost deserve to have their bluff called, except for the fact that the staff of BD and VS don't deserve the inevitable outcome of a BD/VS deal. Dragging the process out now can only harm the employees of BD, and they deserve better than that.

[Edited 2012-01-16 01:17:39]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineDTWHKG From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13540 times:

I'd put my money on VS joining *A.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13440 times:

BD isn't the UK's Number 2 player. People may be obsessed with LHR, but from other London airports U2 and FR provide the real competition to BA.


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13340 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
While in principal I would prefer a solution other than IAG taking over BD


Why ? When it is so obviously the most beneficial outcome ? It can only be an illogical resentment of IAG.

What could possibly be better for all concerned including LHR and the resulting expansion in BA's network to under served developing economies of the world and thus the British economy ?

I'm ''sure'' the UK authorities will tell VS to 'grow up'...we're not in the 80's anymore.

The UK Government has to make LHR work with the resources it has to best serve the economy....having 10% of the slots tied up in this manner or blocking the most beneficial suitor from purchasing is beyond madness.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
( and before anyone accuses me of being anti- BA


If it were anyone but you.....i'm afraid you've made your bed on this one......

Heathrow has to be competitive on a GLOBAL level...

That said : -

WHEN is VS going to start CONTRIBUTING again to UK civil aviation instead of desperately trying to hold it back to suit their own ends ?



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13256 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 4):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
While in principal I would prefer a solution other than IAG taking over BD


Why ? When it is so obviously the most beneficial outcome ? It can only be an illogical resentment of IAG.

No, it can actually be about something else, for example, it can be about the number one player at LHR taking over the number two player.

If the number one player at LHR was LH and BA were the number two then I would still not be happy if LH took over BA ( even if I reluctantly had to accept it as the only way to save a large number of jobs that doesn't mean that I would be happy about it) I also opposed TP taking over Portugalia, and AZ taking over AirOne for exactly the same reasons. It has nothing to do with being anti BA/IAG no matter how much you personally try to spin it that way. In this particular case I agree that IAG taking over BD is the only viable option, but that doesn't mean I have to be enthusiastic about it.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13188 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
No, it can actually be about something else, for example, it can be about the number one player at LHR taking over the number two player.
BD is bust..through not fault of IAG....IAG are just buying the 'mess' that's left....not 'taking it over' in some kind of hostile manoeuuvre.

Both LH and employees of BD must be thanking their lucky stars they are !

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
In this particular case I agree that IAG taking over BD is the only viable option, but that doesn't mean I have to be enthusiastic about it.

In this 'particular case' anyone with the smallest degree of business acumen 'would' be enthusiastic otherwise I'm not sure what your point is ?

Nobody really 'cares' whether you are 'happy' about it...that's a ridiculous basis on which to judge a business transaction. Especially one so clear cut as this.

[Edited 2012-01-16 01:59:48]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinespeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13191 times:

VS is becoming more and more isolated and more irrelevant to the modern age and they know it. They are behaving like a petulent child "If we can't have it, noone will".

They will be brushed aside like a fly. It's the good and hard working staff I feel sorry for.


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13146 times:

I think the reason why Virgin is pressing for the UK competition authorities to review the bid is that, based on current precedent, the remedies required by European competition authorities are likely to involve IAG/BA making available a certain number of slots to any entrants who want to start routes where competition is reduced because the acquisition of bmi, rather than an outright forced disposal of a large number slots. This is of little value to Virgin, unless they are minded to start flying to mid-haul routes like Moscow.

For all Virgin's complaining, whilst LHR slots are not easy to come by, there is still an active market in the trading of slots, and recent evidence has shown they have simply not been acquisitive when they've had the opportunity to be.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13069 times:

Look, it's as simple as this.

BD and VS have been overtaken by developments and events in the airline industry 'globally' not just within the UK.

Alliances, mergers, openskies, anti-trust immunities, low cost carriers, middle eastern giants etc etc

VS can't keep blaming IAG for this...they are just high-lighting their ineptitude.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13026 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
Nobody really 'cares' whether you are 'happy' about it...that's a ridiculous basis on which to judge a businees transaction. Especially one so clear cut as this.

(sigh!)
I have already acknowledged that the IAG takeover of BD is the only realistic option, so clearly that wasn't the part of my post you were responding to as we are in agreement on that.

I have also acknowledged that I think VS are just being ridiculous in their challenges for a dubious 'prize' that they clearly don't want and frankly couldn't handle. I don't think that you disagree with that either.

Since we are in agreement on those two points I am forced to conclude therefore that the part of my post you were responding to was my lack of enthusiasm for the deal, and if that is the case then you clearly do care about whether I am 'happy' as that seems to be your sole objection to my post. However, I suspect you are very nearly right.... I am sure that nobody else cares, but I don't see anything in the terms of use for A.Net which state that users can only post opinions which everyone else cares about.... it would be a very quiet site if that were the case.

In any case, I will re-iterate that I think VS are doing this purely as a kneejerk stunt. They don't want BD, they can't afford BD, they wouldn't know what to do with BD if they got it and frankly I think that they would absolutely s__t themselves if IAG decided to call off the deal and LH said 'VS, we happily accept your counter-offer'. That, at least, is something that I think you and I can actually agree on Big grin

[Edited 2012-01-16 02:15:17]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12944 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
Since we are in agreement on those two points I am forced to conclude therefore that the part of my post you were responding to was my lack of enthusiasm for the deal

Yes because how could anyone lack enthusiasm for the only deal on the table that will save at least some UK jobs and is good for the UK overall ?

You can dance around the issues all you want acknowledging that it is the only 'realistic' option but not ONCE do you explain your lack of enthusiasm ??

What does that lead the rest of us to assume ?

You must be anti UK in some way.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12913 times:

Another link http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c57fb7e-3...07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1jcE4WZwk

VS are just saying it is anti-competitive on some routes.

Well, others are saying that as well, not really new.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12873 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
In this 'particular case' anyone with the smallest degree of business acumen 'would' be enthusiastic

Some of us here in South America are extremely pleased that BA will eventually be able to expand its regional and long-haul operations at LHR and launch new destinations. It will eventually enable passengers traveling to/from destinations in South America such as LIM and SCL a new option to connect via LHR to destinations not served via MAD; when LAN launches services to LHR. Most LIM and SCL passengers traveling to/from Europe in order to reach other international destinations are tired of having to rely mainly on connections via either AMS and/or CDG on AF/KL.

[Edited 2012-01-16 02:37:04]

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12737 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 11):
You can dance around the issues all you want acknowledging that it is the only 'realistic' option but not ONCE do you explain your lack of enthusiasm ??

I have already explained my lack of enthusiasm several times. I don't like to see the number one player in a market ( in this case LHR ) take over the number two player.... I also lacked enthusiasm for AZ taking over AP, for AF taking over UT, for TP taking over Portugalia...., none of which, as far as I can see make me anti-Italian, anti-French or anti-Portugese so I fail to see how you manage to interpret my being unenthusiastic about a dominant player in any market taking over the next biggest player in the same market as being anti-uk in some way? Just to clarify, if TG tomorrow announced that they were taking over Bangkok Airways I would be similarly unenthusiastic, I also don't think that Ryanair should have been allowed to buy a big stake in EI, and I don't like the tie-up between MH and AK, the two biggest players in the Malaysian market. If next week AC announced that they were going to buy Westjet I would also be unenthusiastic about that... does that make me anti Thai, anti Irish, anti-Malay and anti-Canadian in your books? I think that I have been quite consistent in what I have posted and not once have I rubbished IAG or BA. I can dislike a transaction, even one that I acknowledge to be necessary, without having to dislike the parties to the transaction.

I am not sure why my lack of enthusiasm for this transaction is so troubling to you? I will remind you of your own words

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 6):
Nobody really 'cares' whether you are 'happy' about it...

It seems odd for someone who doesn't care to spend so much energy trying to convince me that I should be happy. I can only conclude that deep down you do want me to be happy, and, of course, I am suitably greatful for your concern for my wellbeing. Thank you 

Anyway, I am off to bed now, maybe that will give other people their chance to post their thoughts on this thread. Have a pleasant day.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12724 times:

For stater I think the title of the thread id misleading and should have the words "Will Try" added!

We knew this all along that VS was going to be a thorn in the side of IAG when this deal was announced so nothong new here IMHO.

VS will huff and puff and may get something out of the deal a slot or two or something but whether they like it or not this deal is going to happen and as much as I dont want BD to go the way of the Dodo IAG buying them was in the end the best option for all concerned, some will lose their jobs but a lot more will keep them. I thinmif VS had got their paws on BD that wiould have been the other way around.

Time to move on VS, stop wasting your energy on this and concentrate on the future.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12675 times:

Good Heavens there's nothing more anti competitve than an Alliance if you take the argument to the next step.The difference between that and a cartel is not something I ever really got my head around but anyway.....

Virgin Atlantic do not have the ability to save what's left of BMI from falling apart in the timeframe required. Branson and co can huff and puff all they like but if they delay matters, BMI might be gone, something which might suit VS more. He's not the sainted man he used to be in the UK, we've seen his money grabbing side too many times of late. Virgin money and Northern Rock anyone?

If VS and BD were to merge the succesfully, something I cannot see, the very next day we'd all be tutting and declaring them too small to remain independent.

[Edited 2012-01-16 03:02:05]

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12587 times:

Typical response really. Just look at ATI trans Atlantic, VS were so against it, even painting planes with NO WAY BA/AA Slogans, and as soon as BA and AA finally got it, what do VS do, they get it for themselves as well.

They have a big annoying mouth and like to argue when BA do anything, but they have nothing to back it up with.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12494 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 14):
I don't like to see the number one player in a market ( in this case LHR ) take over the number two player....

The number two player in this market is no longer a going concern nor can it be made one.

IAG are not 'taking it over'.

It has been put up for sale for anyone to bid on.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 14):
It seems odd for someone who doesn't care to spend so much energy trying to convince me that I should be happy

It's got nothing to do with your happines. Far from it.

Thousands of people read these forums and it is important they are aware of the 'facts' and not your bias 'fiction'

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
I have already acknowledged that the IAG takeover of BD is the only realistic option,

LH at FRA 66% of slots....'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

AF at CDG 59% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

KL at AMS 57% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

BA at LHR 43% of slots...Unrealsitic to compete and serve all markets.

Blocking BA from buying BD from a bigger and more dominant airline within Europe (LH) just to prevent it from obtaining slots at its OWN base and a still less dominant position than its European rivals at its OWN base....UNREALISTIC

Especially when the company trying to do the blocking has no viable alternative.

??????



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11703 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 18):
LH at FRA 66% of slots....'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

AF at CDG 59% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

KL at AMS 57% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

BA at LHR 43% of slots...Unrealsitic to compete and serve all markets.

WHY does every one make this tired argument ? DO the world's leading airline want to fly 3 or 5 times daily to AMS, CDG or FRA the way they want to LHR ? NO. For every flight the Singapores, Cathay, Emirates, Air Canada, AA and SAA's of the world have to Contunental Europe they have tripple or more to LHR, there are only so many times you can fly to Amsterdam. KLM can fil a 777 from AMS to GRU but TAM Can NOT fill a 777 from GRU to AMS. KLM can a 777 to Osaka but JAL can't from Osaka to AMS.

These percentages are the way they are because the European airlines can fill a plane to more foreign destination more frequently then a foreign airline can. Would any US airline try to fly from LAX to CDG double daily like Air France, no way.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
WHY does every one make this tired argument ?

It's not a tired argument it's the best possible comparison. Are you saying that BA ought to be constrained more at it's home base because FRA, AMS and CDG are somehow less popular internationally? It's not right that European competition has a different set of rules to the British, this is of course how the EU works, the French for example obeying the rules they want to and expressing astonishment at why this annoys the British.

VS want to prevent BA getting onto a level playing field with Lufthansa and Air France / KLM so that the interests of VS are protected. The sheer number of competing airlines on key routes is indicative of existing and healthy competition. Indeed the presence of VS on that route proves it. VS have had ample opportunity to organically grow their slot portfolio and continue to build their airline against BA however they have been in a cul-de-sac of a stagnating route network and product of late with LHR slots being leased you. There are few major routes out of LHR that don't have a high level of competition.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11427 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 18):
LH at FRA 66% of slots....'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

AF at CDG 59% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

KL at AMS 57% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

BA at LHR 43% of slots...Unrealsitic to compete and serve all markets.

WHY does every one make this tired argument ?

It is not an argument.

These statistics are just simply a way of showing the kind of access an airline 'needs' to its main base in order to achieve a reasonable operation these days.

It's not just a European phenomena. Look at the U.S.A

UA has 75% of slots at IAH and 72% at IAD...it's the same the world over.

The UK chancellor has just announced today greater links with China etc IAG should be able to serve new markets without sacrificing others. It is not at all unreasonable when you consider the above.

BD went bust, LH bought it..it's still bust...jeez let's just let IAG have it and benefit all concerned like they should have in the first place.

The competiiton authorities in the UK should just tell VS to stop wasting everyone's time !



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineantonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11406 times:

If the UK competition authorities get a hold of this, it will take months maybe years before they make a decision.
By that time BMI will have gone bust altogether as I cant see LH throwing any more money at it.


User currently offlineLGWGate49 From Sudan, joined Nov 2009, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11408 times:

I believe these actions by VS could simply play into IAG's hands.

I understand that currently the price IAG will pay LH has been negotiated as being dependent on BD's 2012 Q1 results. These will hardly be helped by the continued uncertainty over BD's future, and could end up with IAG paying less as a result.

Quoting speedmarque (Reply 7):
It's the good and hard working staff I feel sorry for.

   I completely agree.



Look for the ridiculous in everything, and you will find it
User currently offlinestaralliance85 From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11032 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 18):

LH at FRA 66% of slots....'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

AF at CDG 59% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

KL at AMS 57% of slots...'Realistic' to compete and serve all markets.

BA at LHR 43% of slots...Unrealsitic to compete and serve all markets.

Blocking BA from buying BD from a bigger and more dominant airline within Europe (LH) just to prevent it from obtaining slots at its OWN base and a still less dominant position than its European rivals at its OWN base....UNREALISTIC



I personally wanted BD to go to VS but May the Best Man Win!! IAG should Not be blocked by acquiring BD because they will Not be too dominant at LHR. With the takeover, they will have around 50% of the slots. They need to grow to compete with AF/KL and LH.

Quoting Nomik (Thread starter):
m to take on the big boys!

Let VS join SkyTeam to take on the big boys!


I totally disagree. VS is better off with *A than ST , in order to compete with IAG. Don't forget SQ owns 49% of VS and they have friendly relationships with many *A carriers. VS will have to concentrate on being a long distance airline and expand their network to BKK, SIN, PEK and YYZ. They should heavily rely on N American traffic (via LHR) to Africa, India and SE Asia. The bulk of their N American network are to *A hubs and should have a Very Strong agreements with UA and AC.



brad Fitzpatrick
25 richardw : Yes VS needs to join the *A, and pretty quick. It is the only way forward for them and SQ. How important are the leisure long hauls from LGW and MAN t
26 mikey72 : The thing is I cannot believe IAG and LH would of progressed to this level without being sure of the deal being allowed. Let's not forget that VS are
27 skipness1E : OKAY...where to start. Can I ask do you work in a commercial role for STAR? I don't see how any of what you want makes sense. BKK is not one of BA's
28 shankly : So when is VS getting it's A380's??? VS should consider buying into "kindred spirit" Kingfisher to form the perfect basket case airline
29 commavia : To be expected, of course. Virgin has made whining and blame-shifting part of its corporate strategy for years - this appears to be merely a continuat
30 mikey72 : Probably at about the same time they convince Airbus to start supporting Concorde again.
31 richardw : Codeshare LHR-JFK? MAN/LGW-LAS? LHR-BOS? LHR-MCO? Retention of CO code LHR-MIA? Codeshare LHR-HKG and HKG-SYD?[Edited 2012-01-16 07:02:12]
32 superjeff : I fully agree. All you have to do is look at what happened with the AA/TW acquisition in the U.S. in 2000. Almost all of the TWA staff eventually los
33 ual777uk : I just dont see what VS brings to the Star table. If thats all it is then good luck VS. I think they would be better off in ST myself
34 richardw : VS needs to join an alliance and do more partnering, it is the only way forward for them. Would Delta welcome VS into SkyTeam with open arms? Would SQ
35 luganopirate : Just Branson bleating like he always does when he can't get his way. It would have been a great deal for VS and provided non UK feeder traffic, but th
36 jfk777 : Why is everyone so concerned for Singapore Air, they know they own 49% and not 51%. Its time for Virgin to join something and move on from the parall
37 avek00 : The question is whether VS ought to join an alliance, but rather which alliance would offer an invitation for them to join.
38 speedmarque : They are worthless to an alliance. No unique routes or feeder traffic.
39 skipness1E : This is it in a nutshell. Commercially, what does Virgin offer STAR that they haven't already got? Same goes for SkyTeam.
40 timf : I previously thought VS would lean towards joining Star Alliance, but if in fact the deal between LH and IAG for BD closes, I can't help but think the
41 TeamInTheSky : And it seems like DL even approached VS for a tie-up but VS valued itself to highly. I wonder if that will change now....
42 Post contains links AIR MALTA : I the following article, it is said that BMI has cash enough until March. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/424c7...0-3b9b-11e1-a09a-00144feabdc0.html Th
43 staralliance85 : Why is everyone so concerned for Singapore Air, they know they own 49% and not 51%. Its time for Virgin to join something and move on from the parall
44 mikey72 : When 11 of of your total 18 daily LHR departures are to the U.S.A and on all of 'them' you compete aginst BA/AA and the frequency they offer ? VS is
45 VictorKilo : Virgin only has 21 daily flights from LHR. JFK x 3 LAX x 2 EWR x 2 ACC BOS CPT DEL DXB HKG-SYD IAD JNB LOS MIA NBO NRT PVG SFO Nine of these are to S
46 ual777uk : Why would they need to? Exactly. SQ are not in a position to dictate where or what VS does, they have mnade it clear before that they want out if som
47 anstar : Who do Virgin have ATI with??? This is what Virgin's bid was built up on. Go with a cheaper offer from us or face months and perhaps years of uncerta
48 mikey72 : To what end ? The entire landscape has changed dramatically since VS started operations. They have not adapted at all. In that time their nearest riv
49 kiwiandrew : While that is true up to a point it ignores the fact that the employees of BD end up being 'hostages' to this process. If VS were presenting a genuin
50 anstar : Air Malta Estonian Airlines Icelandair Olympic Are a few that come to mind that have not joined alliances. Well I would hardly expect you to take a d
51 TeamInTheSky : Please let me know the terms of the offer, as I have followed VS's flirtation with alliances quite closely and have never seen an actual description
52 mikey72 : Not to belittle those very respectable four but that's a laughable comparison. I'm talking about airlines that operate from highly competitive major
53 anstar : Well you mentioned it below... I was just posting feedback from what you said. Perhaps you should have said airlines that operate from highly competi
54 Post contains links nickofatlanta : Didn't see anything about the termination of the FF agreement with CO (there never was one with Mileage Plus). No mention on either the OnePass or Fl
55 mikey72 : Maybe I should. Sorry. Would you like to comment on .....
56 FlyCaledonian : So what does VS hope to gain from all this? If it drags on too long I suspect IAG may walk away and LH might seriously consider putting bmi into admin
57 mikey72 : How does anything else behave when in its last bitter death throes..... Try and bring down or make life hard for anything around it maybe ?? No matte
58 Babybus : I wonder will BA use BD as a regional feeder to smaller airports or will the aircraft just be absorbed into current fleets and repainted? Is it me or
59 deltaflyertoo : IMO a lot! I.E. nonstop service to Heathrow for one for those of us who are SkyMiles members that live in LAX, ORD, SFO, DC area, etc. Not to mention
60 lhr380 : VS did try short haul for a little little while but it did not last long. Even if it did try now, it has all the LCC and other Euro carriers to compe
61 Post contains links bennett123 : http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/V...%20Sun%20Airlines-history-a320.htm http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/V...%20Sun%20Airlines-history-a321.htm I
62 skipness1E : Don't forget LGW and LHR-ATH with South East European Airways, who then went busting gifting VS a single A320 that they didn't add to......
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