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Delta To Make JFK Their Second Largest Hub?  
User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

I have heard from multiple sources that Delta plans to make JFK their second largest hub? I knew of their JFK expansion, but if it was to become their second largest hub they would have to add hundreds of flights. Is this plan true? Thanks for any info.
DeltaOwnsAll

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Yea, its true. Didnt you hear they are going to bring the L1011 back into service and fly them all out of JFK? I cant wait!



User currently offlineCleCo From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 569 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

What's their second largest hub now?

Jake



EMBRY-RIDDLE BABY
User currently offlineBoeing in pdx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Cincinnati

User currently offlineTool From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2225 times:

If Delta was to make JFK their 2nd largest hub city, the ATC problems would be immesureable. It already takes on averace 45min + to take off at LGA. Plus Delta does not have all the aircraft to populate the routes....

Happy Trails,
Bobb


User currently offlineTool From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2211 times:

If Delta was to make JFK their 2nd largest hub city, the ATC problems would be immesureable. It already takes on average 45min + to take off at LGA. Plus Delta does not have all the aircraft to populate the routes....

Happy Trails,
Bobb


User currently offlineN728DL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2181 times:

Whats your source of info?

N728DL


User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

Bleh, can't remember source of info...I just remember seeing in some Delta news article that it was to be their second largest hub...I can't believe it though...I don't know how it would work.
DeltaOwnsAll


User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

My source is the same source as "deltaownsall", he just overlooked that part. I cant remember what it was either...

 Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

DeltaOwnsAll (catchy name, btw)

Can a resurrection of PanAm be far behind, I wonder?  Wink/being sarcastic

Seriously though, Comair only just got outta strike mode. And the industry generally's not in the strongest of shape right now. So why not let's just see what happens, rumours 'n all.


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2088 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Maybe this is referring to the 2nd largest "International" hub after ATL but that's a title that JFK already holds, so your post is somewhat puzzling. As an DL insider, I have not heard of any plans for JFK to usurp CVG's role as 2nd largest "overall" hub in the system.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

The plans for JFK call for 400+ flights by 2014. This is from the PR releases regarding the new Delta terminal being built there. This would make it a larger operation than CVG.

User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Thank you Padcrasher...for the rest of you...I rest my case. Also, Mark_D....if you were referring to my pan am post...technically Pan Am was resurrected...check out flypanam.org.
DeltaOwnsAll


User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Sorry, that site is flypanam.com
DeltaOwnsAll


User currently offlineBHopsde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

well, we'll see...don't forget about the BOS expansion, almost invested as much.

User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

DeltaOwnsAll

Hey that's great, I was actually just kidding.. you know..PanAm and JFK, in the Sixties and Seventies especially.. they were sort of one with the other  Smile

It's real nice if the company's back in action, for real (nice that they got the Gary Indiana destination, that's, well, 'heartlandwarming'  Smile. I hope it comes back, as strong as can be! (and I always loved their logo, too)


User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Mark_D-
Alright, no hard feelings...just people are pretty mean when they don't have to be alot of the time in these forums...as you can probably see from this post.  Big thumbs up
DeltaOwnsAll


User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

DeltaOwnsAll

Yes, of course, it's messageboard-a-rama, just like most places, good with the not-so-good.

Getting back to the subject though,and Padcrasher's post about projections for 2014, that's a mighty long time away. All kinds of folks are expecting huge increases in air traffic, in that kind of timeframe.

I don't know what CVG's'll be then, for instance. But anyway hopefully there'll be some changes or two in the ATC infrastructure, to handle it all as it comes into being.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2050 times:

That Terminal proposal hasn't even been officially submitted for the Port Authority to review, after thats submitted they have to line up financing for it. Continental is receiving financing for their projects at EWR through the New Jersey Economic development authority, American's new Terminal is being financed through the Empire State redevelopment authority. After financing has been arranged they have to do an enviromental impact assessment and after that's complete they then can submitt their proposal to the Port Authority Board of Commissioners to review and then approve.

If all the commisioners (who are from NY and NJ) approve the plan it then has to be sent to the Governor's of NJ and NY for final approval, if either one of them doesn't approve the project it doesn't get done. Governor Pataki held up CAL's project at EWR for 12-18 months over his objections to large investments the PA was making at Marine Terminals at Port Newark/Elizabeth in NJ. Governor Whitman then held up AA's JFK Terminal plan until Governor Pataki approved CAL's EWR project and the expansion to Port of Newark's Marine terminals.

It was settled 18 months later and both AA and CAL's projects received approval as did the expansion of Port Newark.

For such a large project like what DL "PROPOSED" to build at JFK the Governor of NJ would want something substantial to be approved at the same time for NJ, like a PATH extension to EWR or a new runway at EWR. Both projects would then be linked and would have to be approved together by the Port Authority and both Governor's of NJ and NY.

But so far DL hasn't even submitted anything to get the ball rolling, figure about 2 years after they submit something (if they ever do) would you even see ground broken. Then maybe another 3-4 years after that until it's complete, they have to hurry or they're not going to have their project done before AA's Terminal opens in 2006. Most of CAL's EWR expansion will be finished next year, the last part of their project which is a maintenance facility for their ground vehicles should be finished by 2003. Here's a link to CAL's Global Gateway site, many of the projects are nearing completion probably by November or December of this year.http://www.continental.com/globalgateway/



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

Its true, that DL's proposal for a new JFK has not been approved by anyone or anything yet, but take my work for it, the PA knows about it and supports it strongly.

The inefficiencies and obsolence of Terminal 3 at JFK has become a tremendous PR nightmare for an airport spending over 2 billion dollars to put on a new face.

DL's plan calls for construction of an extended concourse on the south concourse of Terminal 4 as well as a new arrivals hall at Terminal 4. It also calls for a complete renovation and expansion of Terminal 2 and a connector between 4 and 2. Than some years later, after the demolition of Terminal 3, a new Terminal will be built in its place, "Delta Global Gateway" of sorts.

All the while, AA's new terminal is seeing strong progress as much of the frames for the new midfield terminal are in place. When Terminal 5 shuts, this will facilitate the development of a predecesor for T5 and T6 with United and JetBlue controlling the new terminal. Most likely other, STAR carriers will join UA there like Air Canada (T7) and Thai (T7), and SAS and Mexicana should they ever chose to fly to JFK.

rgds
russ


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2088 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2040 times:

PadCrasher stated above that DL would have 400+ flights a day at JFK by 2014 according to PR releases. I wish he would state where he obtained this information as I could only find the following in an article in the company news magazine dated Oct. 23, 2000 which stated (direct quote from the Delta Digest):

"As the cornerstone of Delta's growth in the Northeast over the next 20 years JFK will serve as a key international gateway, with worldwide access to more than 175 combined daily departures by 2005, increasing to 222 daily departures by 2014.

To accomodate the new service, Delta will consolidate its domestic and international flights in two separate terminals. Terminal 3 will be demolished to make way for the project.

At terminal 2 Delta plans to operate North America flights exclusively. Gate capacity will double in size to 20 gates to accomodate increased mainline, low-fare Delta Express and Delta Connection regional jet service.

Daily domestic flights are expected to increase from 36 to 140 departures by 2014.

When expansion is complete, Delta will move its international operations to Terminal 4, the former Internationals Arrivals Building. B Concourse, the only 24-hour terminal at JFK, will add 16 gates and will offer a projected 82 international flights by 2014, up from 21 this year.

Facility statistics:

1. Will occupy 52 gates (12 regional jet, 8 DLX and 6 hard stands)
2. Projects that it will fly 20 million passengers annually by 2014.
3. Will operate 175 daily departures to worldwide destinations by the year 2005 and 222 by 2014."

Based on the above information, CVG will solidly remain Delta's 2nd largest "overall" hub. However, JFK will obviously be a much bigger International hub operation than CVG. I hope this clarifies things.


User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

Anyone know the figures on AA's planned growth in JFK? (Gates, Daily departures, etc..) Thanks for the info.
DeltaOwnsAll


User currently offlineSFOintern From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 770 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Thanks for that recap Delta Widget Head.

WHOA! I wonder where those *61* new international flights will be going to?

SFOintern


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

TWAneedsnohelp said...

"Its true, that DL's proposal for a new JFK has not been approved by anyone or anything yet, but take my work for it, the PA knows about it and supports it strongly".

That may be true but without approval from the Governor's of NY and NJ it doesn't matter how much they support it, for the Governor of NJ to support such a large project in NY he would require something equal to be approved at the same meeting for NJ (ie. PATH link to EWR, new EWR Terminals etc)..




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Well, the site I referenced must be wrong.

www.conway.com/ssinsider/bbdeal/bd0010023.htm

It calls for a 188 additional flights by 2005 and 222 additional by 2014. This is on top of the present day 57 flights.

BTW, I was in JFK this Tuesday and they were demolishing an old terminal right across the ramp from the Delta terminal.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 25, posted (13 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

I heard this too! Don't know where either however.

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