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Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities  
User currently onlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 28
Posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4782 times:

Airtran today has applied to the DOT for permission to fly AUS/DEN-CUN services. In their application FL/WN proposes a start up date of May 25th for AUS-CUN and April 16th for DEN-CUN services. Flights will be flown with FL's 737-700s. Airtran requested the DOT the authority exemption be granted for two years and for the authorities to be granted as soon as possible.

Now we know why WN is getting gates at concourse A at DEN. Looks like WN is going for more US-CUN route authorities. I wonder what other routes to Mexico they will apply for out of DEN. Any guesses? PVR, SJD...

OST-2012-0007
ht tp://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0007-0001

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Cancun is recovering nicely from the things that transpired in 2008-2009... I see more and more airlines applying to go there. Plus Virgin Atlantic is going in with the 747.....

best of luck CUN.


User currently onlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5703 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

Wow! Exciting times!

I had a feeling AUS-CUN was coming soon!

DEN-CUN is not surprising either.

If all comes together we'll be seeing SAT/AUS/DEN-CUN and based on the decision later MDW-CUN if that comes through as well.

FL already flies BWI/ATL-CUN and MKE as well (seasonal/charter?)

All together we'll be seeing MKE/BWI/ATL/SAT/AUS/DEN-CUN?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

4x week to daily for both service? Isn't that a bit much for AUS?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
4x week to daily for both service? Isn't that a bit much for AUS?

I think some other airline used to fly AUS-CUN, it did well with the college kids


User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

Why is FL applying for the cities that they've chosen? DEN, AUS, SNA, SAT?

Why not LAX, LAS, PHX, HOU, or some of the other bigger cities?



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently onlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5703 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 5):
HOU

Well..No FIS for one in HOU Hahahaha

There can only be THREE US Airlines flying from each route to CUN.

It is likely LAX-CUN is already taken, I am unsure about LAS/PHX-CUN.

The ones WN/FL are applying for is because there is an authority available for it.

Don't forget, WN has a partner in Volaris, while they aren't flying CUN-LAX/PHX and so forth, they are connecting them via Mexico City and such.

Alex

[Edited 2012-01-18 19:15:27]


Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineDIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 706 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 5):
Why is FL applying for the cities that they've chosen? DEN, AUS, SNA, SAT?

DEN is an obvious choice even though CUN-DEN is already served year round by UA and F9. This appears to follow WN's strategy of encroaching on F9's last few route monopolies using Airtran (DEN-CAK, DEN-DAY, and DEN-LGA to a lesser extent since UA and DL serve it as well). WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9 - I would not be surprised to see other Mexico and Costa Rica routes.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4524 times:
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Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9

Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5703 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9 - I would not be surprised to see other Mexico and Costa Rica routes.
Quoting mariner (Reply 8):

Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

While I see what you're saying DIA77, but I agree with Mariner, this is not any different.

In this time around, it's not WN attacking F9, its WN trying to build up CUN by adding as many US points as they can, DEN was a logical choice, and it just so happens F9 flies it.

But all WN is doing is trying to build up CUN, DEN was next along with AUS, and WN will continue to add any US that does not have 3 Authorities taken up.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBobLoblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
Well..No FIS for one in HOU Hahahaha

Isnt CUN preclearence?


User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 10):

Unbelievably no. With the amount of tourists you'd think it would.

Hope to see them do FLL-CUN.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 8):
Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

It's one of the few places WN hasn't been able to copy F9 until now, and possibly one of the few places F9 makes money?

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
Don't forget, WN has a partner in Volaris, while they aren't flying CUN-LAX/PHX and so forth, they are connecting them via Mexico City and such.

Ha, yeah, no one is doing that. Even if CUN was an option on the Y4 codeshare. Try booking it--surviving a Japanese game show is easier.

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 10):
Isnt CUN preclearence?

Negative

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
I think some other airline used to fly AUS-CUN, it did well with the college kids

VB, SY, CO, DL...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4351 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
It's one of the few places WN hasn't been able to copy F9 until now, and possibly one of the few places F9 makes money?

Given the relationship with Apple Vacations and the CPA's, I assume that CUN, like most of Frontier's south-of-the-border routes, will continue to make money.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Given the relationship with Apple Vacations and the CPA's, I assume that CUN, like most of Frontier's south-of-the-border routes, will continue to make money.

Does F9 get a fixed amount for what the fly on behalf of Apple or do they get a percentage based on the seats sold?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Given the relationship with Apple Vacations and the CPA's, I assume that CUN, like most of Frontier's south-of-the-border routes, will continue to make money.

Perhaps, but WN brings its own big artillery in the form of Southwest Vacations, which though new to the route, have some experience



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4264 times:
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Quoting WNCrew (Reply 14):
Does F9 get a fixed amount for what the fly on behalf of Apple or do they get a percentage based on the seats sold?

I'm not sure how this morphed into Frontier, but in the case of the scheduled flights they're CPA's - capacity purchase agreements. Apple pre-purchases block of seats - very large blocks of seats in many cases.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4213 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Perhaps, but WN brings its own big artillery in the form of Southwest Vacations, which though new to the route, have some experience

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I've said. Apple Vacations and Southwest Vacations seem to have been able to coexist, lo, this long time.

I've already said - in another thread - that I think Southwest will do well on DEN-CUN. I am less certain about AUS-CUN.

mariner

[Edited 2012-01-18 20:13:11]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 706 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
Quoting mariner (Reply 8):
Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

It's one of the few places WN hasn't been able to copy F9 until now, and possibly one of the few places F9 makes money?

  

Mexico has been a market that Frontier has largely had to itself from DEN (with a sprinkling of UA here and there). I guess my point is that F9 is really looking hard to find the last remaining money making opportunities (those opportunities were in routes like CAK, DAY, and Mexico) and WN is encroaching on those previously untouched routes.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):

WN can feed AUS-CUN with flights from BNA, BWI, DAL, ELP, MDW, HOU, LAS, LAX, LBB, OAK, PHX, SAN and SJC with only one-stop in AUS if they are timed for it. Others that have tried it in the past didn't have the feed. DEN can be fed using O/D in addition to SLC, BOI, GEG, SEA, PDX, SMF, OAK, SFO, OMA, etc... Filling the flights won't be a problem; yields, on the other hand, may be.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3973 times:
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Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):

WN can feed AUS-CUN with flights from BNA, BWI, DAL, ELP, MDW, HOU, LAS, LAX, LBB, OAK, PHX, SAN and SJC with only one-stop in AUS if they are timed for it. Others that have tried it in the past didn't have the feed

Southwest will surely be able to do that - once the codeshare is approved - but I worry about routes that rely entirely on connections and other airlines, Legacy or LCC, have had real problems with AUS-CUN.

Maybe Southwest will be the exception.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
DEN can be fed using O/D in addition to SLC, BOI, GEG, SEA, PDX, SMF, OAK, SFO, OMA, etc... Filling the flights won't be a problem; yields, on the other hand, may be.

As I said previously, I think DEN-CUN will be fine for Southwest. Cancun doesn't seem to have the problems besetting the Pacific Mexican resorts.

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 18):
Mexico has been a market that Frontier has largely had to itself from DEN (with a sprinkling of UA here and there). I guess my point is that F9 is really looking hard to find the last remaining money making opportunities (those opportunities were in routes like CAK, DAY, and Mexico) and WN is encroaching on those previously untouched routes.

If Frontier only flew to places that Southwest doesn't fly, it would be a very short list of destinations.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6830 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Thread starter):
I wonder what other routes to Mexico they will apply for out of DEN. Any guesses? PVR, SJD

I'd think that SJD would be the next, if only because they'll be serving SJD from SNA.

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
This appears to follow WN's strategy of encroaching on F9's last few route monopolies using Airtran (DEN-CAK, DEN-DAY, and DEN-LGA to a lesser extent since UA and DL serve it as well). WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9 - I would not be surprised to see other Mexico and Costa Rica routes.

Maybe yes, maybe no. DEN is in the top five WN airports by departures (top six if you include FL/ATL) so there's some logic in them adding non-stop service from DEN to what will be their largest international station. LAS-CUN is unlikely to happen since there's not a whole lot of demand. I'd expect to see them do PHX-SJD before PHX-CUN.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
I worry about routes that rely entirely on connections and other airlines, Legacy or LCC, have had real problems with AUS-CUN.

Maybe Southwest will be the exception.

Southwest does have better connecting feed at AUS to go along with its leading market share there; that might well be enough to make the market work.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I've said.

You brought up Apple Vacations; they and WN Vacations are going to target the same vacation spending in DEN and connecting stations.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
WN can feed AUS-CUN with flights from BNA, BWI, DAL, ELP, MDW, HOU, LAS, LAX, LBB, OAK, PHX, SAN and SJC with only one-stop in AUS

A lot of those already have cheap nonstop service to CUN, so they'd be getting some pretty cheap connections



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3615 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
You brought up Apple Vacations; they and WN Vacations are going to target the same vacation spending in DEN and connecting stations.

I brought up Apple simply to point out that Frontier is not flying DEN-CUN "on it's own", as is popularly believed.

Similarly, I would be shocked if Southwest were not flying the route "in conjunction" with a vacation packager, even if that packager is itself.

Airtran isn't flying MKE-CUN "on its own" - it has the Apple CPA for that, at least for this winter, while Frontier has (from memory) Funjet. Who gets what next winter is presently unknown to me, but if it stays with Airtran, then presumably Southwest Vacations will be in competition with Apple there with both fighting for Airtran - LOL. On the other hand, PIT-CUN/PUJ goes from Airtran to Frontier, as does BWI-PUJ.

It gets complicated.  

mariner

[Edited 2012-01-19 14:46:28]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

The ruling should come out tomorrow January 30th right?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
25 Post contains images Mexicana757 : You mean today January 30th? Yes the ruling came out today. The DOT has granted WN/FL the route authorities CUN-AUS/DEN. OST-2012-0007 The ruling eve
26 WNCrew : THAT's what I was referring to... haha! Thank you. I have been flying too much and then commuted last night on a red-eye transcon so I'm a little "of
27 WNCrew : Re: Chicago-CUN service If I read the DOT Documents correctly it states "Replies: January 31st 2012"... so I'd assume we'll have an answer tomorrow?
28 Mexicana757 : We should have answer by tomorrow if they stick with the deadline. I guess it may be tomorrow since WN/FL has thrown in one last answer/comment on F9
29 Post contains links LAXintl : SWA announced the schedule today - Denver - Cancun begins April 16th Austin - Cancun commences May 25th. story: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Southw..
30 LoneStarMike : Interesting. Even though the code share is not in place yet, AUS-CUN will still get some feed from HOU and SAT-CUN & SAT-MEX will also get some fe
31 nomorerjs : MDW - CUN announcement soon? Would be nice to find out if / when this happens!
32 bjorn14 : Anybody know where I can find out who has authorities for USA-MEX(ico)?
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