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A320NEO: Orders, Odds And Ends  
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 days ago) and read 11972 times:

Thought I'd post a state-of-the-NEO thread after Airbus updated the books during the press conference, and as we begin an exciting new year in the narrowbody race.

Orders: Current through Jan. 20, 2012:



VX's 30 NEOs were booked in 2010, resulting in 1226 NEOs being firmed in 2011.

Any guesses as to the unidentified 35? I suppose it's possible they account for a previous MOU, ie Avianca or Alafco increasing and firming their order but hope to see a new customer behind it. With the Singapore air show just around the corner (Feb.14-29), perhaps an Asian airline? MH would make an interesting candidate should they choose to defect in the narrowbody segment and replace their 35 aging 737 classics (despite operating NGs, yet with only 1 delivery remaining, per airfleets). They currently operate a mixed A/B widebody fleet.

NEO vs MAX: As there has been quite of bit of discussion on the "fastest selling airliner", I decided to plot some numbers to compare both programs' progression of firm orders over time.



Data is based on the NEO's 12/1/2010 launch and the MAX launching on 7/20/2011 - in conjunction with the AA order. By this metric, technically the MAX is currently in the lead with the firmed Southwest order - as we're only at day 184  

For reference, the Southwest order came after 146 days in MAX's life. On day 147 in the NEO's life, ILFC firmed their order for 100 aircraft. It will be interesting to plot the progression over time through 2012 as Boeing begins firming their commitments. The dashed lines represent their respective, current order ceilings (firm+commitments). Boeing is said to have accumulated 1000+ commitments to date.

Pricing: With Airbus' prices increases, the NEO now commands the following premium -

A319NEO: +8.1 million USD
A320NEO: +8.4 "
A321NEO: +9.7 "

Trivia: As tweeted by David KM of Flight Global on Jan. 17th - "A320neo sharklets were nearly called 'eaglets' because, I'm told, a fairly senior Airbus exec doesn't like sharks."

Eaglets!   
Thank goodness someone came to his senses.

OEO but worth a mention: To celebrate the production of their 5,000th A320, Airbus released a nice little video today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Sh7pHH9rQ&hd=1

  

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11866 times:
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Great overview! Certainly one of the most succesful launches ever. What will be the next order?
Thanks for posting man!  


User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 835 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11586 times:

Does the graph just show firm orders or is it firm plus MOU?

I think its great either way and provides a very fair comparison, thanks for taking the time to make it  


User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11471 times:

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Any guesses as to the unidentified 35?

IAG?

BA's LGW 737s are due for replacement, and IB will have some older 320 - series also.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5085 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11397 times:

I just figured out that AF is missing. Didnt they order the NEO? So its only two European companies ordering the NEO, LH and SAS. Guess that wont make it easy to go and fly on one.


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11208 times:

Awesome work flood.!!
  

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 2):
Does the graph just show firm orders or is it firm plus MOU?

The graph shows firm only.
But the doted line includes MOUs.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9841 posts, RR: 96
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11179 times:
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Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Thought I'd post a state-of-the-NEO thread

This is a really solid piece of work - many thanks for taking the time to do this on our behalf.

The NEO could well be one of the finest bits of decision-making that Airbus have ever done, IMO. Time will tell, I guess  

Rgds


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1315 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10813 times:

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Thought I'd post a state-of-the-NEO thread after Airbus updated the books during the press conference, and as we begin an exciting new year in the narrowbody race.

An excellent thread with clear graphs and charts. Very interesting, and im sure helpful to most of us here following this segment. When summer 2011 came around, I had a mighty hard time following the hourly announcements for the neo.

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
MH would make an interesting candidate should they choose to defect in the narrowbody segment and replace their 35 aging 737 classics (despite operating NGs, yet with only 1 delivery remaining, per airfleets).

It would indeed be an interesting switch, however with their changing strategy, especially involving Air Asia, I dont see them ordering any additional narrowbodies for awhile.

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
NEO vs MAX: As there has been quite of bit of discussion on the "fastest selling airliner", I decided to plot some numbers to compare both programs' progression of firm orders over time.

I loved this. Should make interesting comparisons when in a few months time, both manufacturers are making the claim.  
Quoting astuteman (Reply 6):
The NEO could well be one of the finest bits of decision-making that Airbus have ever done, IMO. Time will tell, I guess  

Totally agree on that. Airbus did a swell job convincing the airlines they could not wait for a new single aisle aircraft that may have been a bit better, but certainly a good bit later. This in turn, IMO, forced the airlines and thus Boeing's hand on the MAX.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineRubberJungle From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10140 times:

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Any guesses as to the unidentified 35?

If you look carefully, Airbus seems to have accidentally given away the identity of the customer...


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9517 times:

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 8):
If you look carefully, Airbus seems to have accidentally given away the identity of the customer...

Huh?
  

Please tell me .... I am kind of slow!


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8417 times:

I don't believe AF ordered the NEO, does somebody have any info on when Lufthansa's NEOS were ordered??

User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8124 times:

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 3):
IAG? BA's LGW 737s are due for replacement, and IB will have some older 320 - series also.

A solid candidate... they also have only one A320 left awaiting delivery.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 4):
I just figured out that AF is missing. Didnt they order the NEO? So its only two European companies ordering the NEO, LH and SAS. Guess that wont make it easy to go and fly on one.

Their widebody order should be firmed soon, but despite AF confirming their interest in the NEO some nine months ago, they have yet to commit (unless they're the unidentified customer, that is):

Quoting Chiad (Reply 5):
The graph shows firm only.
But the doted line includes MOUs.

Correct, thanks  
Quoting astuteman (Reply 6):
The NEO could well be one of the finest bits of decision-making that Airbus have ever done, IMO.

The gift that keeps on giving. It's quite remarkable, really... I had the impression sales had tapered off a little over the past six months or so, yet the chart doesn't reflect such.

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 8):
If you look carefully, Airbus seems to have accidentally given away the identity of the customer...

I took another look at the slides and orders spreadsheets but haven't seen anything, other than their worldwide order spreadsheet suggesting the order is likely to consist of A320s and A321s. Maybe you could point me in the right direction  
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 7):
When summer 2011 came around, I had a mighty hard time following the hourly announcements for the neo.

I think everyone did   I recall seeing various figures in the media throughout the year and, more often than not, there was no agreement amongst them.

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 7):
I loved this. Should make interesting comparisons when in a few months time, both manufacturers are making the claim.

Thanks. It's interesting to note that while Boeing today claims some 1000+ orders and commitments for the MAX, Airbus had also bagged 1019 orders and commitments at the time in the NEO's life - but a considerable number were firm orders at that point.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 10):
I don't believe AF ordered the NEO, does somebody have any info on when Lufthansa's NEOS were ordered??

The order was firmed on 7/27/11 (238 days after launch)
http://www.airbus.com/no_cache/newse...chases-30-a320neo-family-aircraft/


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7975 times:

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 8):

Ah, I see they've included it in their NEO order table. ALAFCO has indeed increased and firmed their order for 35 NEOs.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/co...?eID=dam_frontend_push&docID=19650

They previously ordered 50, bringing their total order to 85  


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7436 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 12):
Ah, I see they've included it in their NEO order table. ALAFCO has indeed increased and firmed their order for 35 NEOs.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/co...?eID=dam_frontend_push&docID=19650

They previously ordered 50, bringing their total order to 85  

Aaaaaaah
 
Thanks both of you!


User currently offlinef4f3a From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

Very interesting info indeed. As for a new order I would expect U2 to
Order soon maybe 100+ a320 wouldn't be surprised if some were 321
and existing orders converted to shark lets


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1061 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 7010 times:

Very nice table and graph, flood.
Is anyone able to detail the breakdown in marketshare between the engine manufacturers on the A320NEO?



repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6619 times:

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 14):
Very interesting info indeed. As for a new order I would expect U2 to
Order soon maybe 100+ a320 wouldn't be surprised if some were 321
and existing orders converted to shark lets

I have been waiting for this order to come.
IMO a NEO order from Easyjet is as certain as the MAX order from Southwest.
Also the 100? forcast seems likely.

I wonder how many NEO slots Airbus has saved between 2015 and 2018 for strategic customer.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Question: has Airbus stated how many A320NEO Family planes will use the CFM International LEAP-X engine and how many will use the Pratt & Whitney PW112xG engines?

User currently offlineRubberJungle From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 17):
Question: has Airbus stated how many A320NEO Family planes will use the CFM International LEAP-X engine and how many will use the Pratt & Whitney PW112xG engines?

465 with CFM
410 with PW
381 undecided


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6369 times:

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 18):

To add the breakdown per wiki, which looks to be missing one or two orders:

CFM: AirAsia, Garuda, GECAS, SAS, Virgin America, ILFC
P&W: ALAFCO, CIT, IndiGo, JetBlue, Lufthansa, Qatar, ILFC

ILFC split their 100 NEOs 60 PW / 40 CFM.
The remaining NEOs come with a set of oars.

I lost track of the engines some time ago but will update and include them in the future.


User currently offlinePezySPU From Croatia, joined Dec 2011, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 14):
As for a new order I would expect U2 to
Order soon maybe 100+ a320 wouldn't be surprised if some were 321
and existing orders converted to shark lets

U2 now operate mostly high-density A319s and just a few dozens of A320s.  


User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 5533 times:
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Hey where are the AY's NEO order? Are they counted at ILFC's orders?


Flying high and low
User currently offlineU2380 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2010, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 20):
U2 now operate mostly high-density A319s and just a few dozens of A320s

It looks like any future order will be for the A320 (sized) aircraft. I believe they evaluated both the A320 and A321 when they inherited a few of each after the GB Airways take over. They dumped the A321's and ordered more A320's.

Hopefully we'll see some A320NEO's go to U2. Although they'll have to go through Stelios first!


User currently offlineRubberJungle From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Quoting teme82 (Reply 21):
Hey where are the AY's NEO order? Are they counted at ILFC's orders?

Finnair didn't order the Neo. It ordered A321s with sharklet wing-tips, but not the re-engined airframe.


User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 5341 times:
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Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 23):
Finnair didn't order the Neo. It ordered A321s with sharklet wing-tips, but not the re-engined airframe.

I see perhaps I'll try to make CEO Vehviläinen to change the plans  



Flying high and low
25 Post contains links and images flood : Did you dial the wrong number? Update with Norwegian's MoU and to include the engines: Note CIT has also split their engine order and they still hold
26 Post contains links sirtoby : A good summary of all orders with engine choices can be also found on the this side: http://aeroturbopower.blogspot.com/p/a320neo-vs-b737re.html
27 Post contains links flood : Thanks, a good source for me to compare my numbers. I don't care to scroll around in both axis in such a little window but I do like their orders pri
28 Eagleboy : So over 1250 firm orders. Last year the official line was that 'Airbus........ will raise the production rate of its A320 family to 42 aircraft per mo
29 breiz : ...and you were right. Alexandre de Juniac, AF President has confirmed today that AF will not order any NEO due to the young age of the medium-haul f
30 Post contains images mffoda : You could update Norwegian's 737-8Max engine selection as they only have one choice there...
31 Post contains images teme82 : Nope... But there is certain deals about corporate world that I can't comment It's so nice to be shareholder
32 Post contains links flood : Thanks for the info. Back in April it seemed an order was all but certain. Well, they're keeping their options open: Initial neos will use the geared
33 Post contains images mffoda : What! I'm talking of the 737-8Max's... There will be no discussions regarding engine options.
34 Post contains images flood : Sorry, as the chart you were referring to only contains engines for the NEO, your mention of the MAX went completely over my head. Yes, breaking down
35 Post contains images mffoda : I know... I was having a bit of fun. Actually though... It might look good to see them side by side... if you are interested in expanding your chart?
36 Post contains images flood : I've been keeping track of the MAX in the same format, albeit seperately. Here they are combined: CFM count for MAX will be updated as the aircraft ar
37 Post contains images Chiad : Thank you so much for these charts flood!
38 Hamlet69 : Flood, Absolutely fantastic! My databases are similar, but not nearly so eye-pleasing. Can I ask what program you're using? Keep it up! Hamlet69
39 Eagleboy : Great info presented so clearly.
40 Post contains images EPA001 : Indeed fantastic work Flood! Thanks for all your efforts.
41 Post contains links and images EPA001 : Just received news that the Avianca MoU for 33 NEO's has been firmed up. They also firmed up the order for 18 regular A320-series aircraft. . http://w
42 Post contains links and images flood : I used Excel. Just a screengrab for the above charts, whereas for the webpage I linked to below I exported the spreadsheet as an html file. I saw tha
43 travelavnut : Really great work Flood, thanks a lot!! Would it be to much to ask to add a graph showing the development of market share of total firm orders over t
44 Post contains images mffoda : You have Americans options @ 60, not WN's....
45 Post contains images lightsaber : Yes, thank you Flood. In particular, the engine orders. Now if only the C-series would sell well enough to warrant expanding the chart a little more.
46 Post contains images flood : Thanks for the suggestion. It would indeed make for an interesting visual comparison and I'll include it in the next update. Brainfart, thanks... I m
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