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NWA-worst Fleet In Industry  
User currently offlineAirbus_330_340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 157 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

I agree with "Dragon-Wings" Northwest has by far the worst fleet in the industry. This is mainly due to the fact that they use their planes for 20+ years apiece. Sure they bought 744s and A320/A319s but they still operate some of the oldest planes in the industry DC-9 series 10 aircraft: add that to their industry leading fleet of DC-9-30/40/50s, their large amount of DC-10-30/40s and their 747-200s. They still operate 742s on all flights from LAX and MSP to Asian destinations. They continue to operate their DC-10s with outdated interiors across the Atlantic to Amsterdam and London.

I once had a 5+hour delay in Detroit before my flight was cancelled on the Airplane because of two DC-10s(the first a -40, the second a -30). A large shard of metal about 4x4 ft was pulled off the GE-CF6 engine on the left wing of the -30. Their DC-10s are in immediate need of a replacement.

But NWA as usual is doing something stupid, they are replacing their domestic DC-10-40s with cramped uncomfortable 757-300s which will take f-o-r-e-v-e-r to board. They are replacing a widebody with a narrowbody. Why would they replace a plane that is always full (the DC-10) with a 757-300 which can only hold a maximum of 243 passengers while a DC-10 in domestic configuration can hold 298 pax with a wide body for comfort. NWA will swap a widebody for a widebody on their Atlantic routes with the A330-300. Northwest should have ordered B763s or A333s for their domestic routes as well.

All other airlines operate widebodies domestically and eventually NWA will not. UAL even operates 744s on their LAX-IAD route and 777s on the LAX-DEN (882mi) route. Northwest will surely lose the battle with long-haul domestic services (such as DTW-LAX,SEA,SFO) on 752s, 753s, and A320s.


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The Future NWA Domestic fleet... A320/A319, 752, 753.



38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39704 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

I like Northwest because of there fleet!

As a 'true' aviation entusiest, I have to appretiate an airline that uses DC-9s, 727s, DC-10s and 747-200s.
These are some great planes and have lots of life left in them.
Would you rather them have an all twin engine fleet?

Long live Northwest!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Though NWA has the oldest fleet, but the safety record is really good. NWA has only .4 fatal accident per 1 million flights compared to .5 for UAL (which has a more modern fleet)

Though, there are some incidents in the past few months for NWA.

r panda


User currently offlineDLL10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1579 times:

Although I do not like NWA for their not so famous service and the fact that sometimes the F/As on transcontinental flights, particularly to AMS speak little or no English (which is a real shame on a US airline) , their fleet rocks. Where else do you find that many great a/c types combined ?

User currently offlineWhistler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

NW's may be old but they have new types on order. A330s and 757s. They are probably getting more A320s and 19s too. I think Delta has the worst fleet.

User currently offlineGsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

I like the old fleet.

The old fleet in combination with the newer planes is really nice. DC-9s are classic aircraft to ride, and they aren NOT bad flights. They aren't even that loud. Not as bad, as say, the Delta 727s I ride on to Atlanta or US Air Fokker F100s.

Anyhow, they have the Avro, which is again, a very nice aircraft. And sitting at DTW watching planes while waiting for the next flight, you'll see alot of different planes in their livery. That's one of the things I like about NW.


User currently offlineCritter592 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

I think Northwest has a GREAT Fleet. They have just finished COMPLETELY Remodeling the DC9s and Hushkitted them. Their A320s are quite ugly I admit, I would rather go on jetBlue's A320. But NWA is replacing the DC10 with the 753. In your mind they take forever to board, but I think NWA has figured it out. Richard Anderson is a good man and before you start Bashing NWA fleet, take a look at Airtran's DC9s. Those things are UGLY.

User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1479 times:

It's refreshing to see yet another boorish anti-NW post meet disagreement. Where to begin?

>>This is mainly due to the fact that they use their planes for 20+ years apiece. Sure they bought 744s and A320/A319s but they still operate some of the oldest planes in the industry DC-9 series 10 aircraft: add that to their industry leading fleet of DC-9-30/40/50s, their large amount of DC-10-30/40s and their 747-200s. <<

Midwest Express also operates D91s and D93s. N801ME is actually the oldest flying Douglas twinjet. I suppose that since they're flying DC9-10s that they're also an airline with a reputation for mx delays, poor service and they too should be awarded a 'Worst Fleet' banner.
You referred to the NW -9 fleet as 'industry leading,' You're right. They are the only airline to retrofit their interiors with the 717-style interiors on ALL aircraft, regardless of retirement date.


Northwest's 742s are some of the youngest, and last of the 742s off the production line. They also received a number of aircraft from such operators as SQ...an airline with a reputation for impeccable maintenance and cleanliness. Their D10s, mainly their -30s are being retrofitted as we speak...Vacuum lavs, new seats, carpeting and screens. Their acquisitions from SR and JA also provided for a well-maintained airframe at a significant savings. Why is NW still flying these antiquated aircraft? They make money! These aircraft cost a fraction of a new one to purchase, and their signifcant increase in Atlantic RPMs over the past fiscal year has made it extremely attractive to operate these aircraft transatlantic. Perhaps if NW had not subsidized Bethune's new fleet at CO during their ownership, they could have begun the program earlier.

Regarding the -10s and 753s. Last I checked, the JT9D-7 was somewhat less efficient than the 2043s hinged to the 753 wing. The decreased passenger capacity is not going to have any impact whatsoever on traffic. The -40s carry little cargo, and NW has a few sundry mail contracts which could be flown with a DC9-10 sufficiently. Why operate an aircraft when, contrary to your uninformed opinion, the -40s rarely are full. Turnaround time has been proven effective on operations by Condor and Arkia as well as JMC's recent introduction of the 753. Call their VP of fleet management and explain to them how you think it's, how did you put it, stupid, to operate 753s on domestic trunk routes...the resounding scorn should ring clear across the atlantic.

Sorry to disappoint you, but UA1 is operated as a continuation of the around-the-world flight. On that leg, it experiences load factors of around 44% and acts more as a scheduled ferry flight to get it back to LAX for the HKG run. That load factor hardly justifies a 744. And you're impressed that UA runs a 744 between LAX, DEN, and ORD? NW has twice daily flights between MKE and MSP...it's called trunk-route-feeding. You operate flights during peak connection times to your hubs; not a new philosophy exactly.


Regards,

ml



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

DLL10
"sometimes the F/A'a on transcontinental flights, particularly to AMS speak little or English."

I have never met a flight attendant on Northwest Airlines who could not speak English. I have flown on them for nearly 30 years and many times to AMS.

What are you talking about?


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

I disagree.
First you have to see that keeping the old planes was the best way to get rid of the dept that brought NW near to bancruptcy 10 years ago. Now they are very profitable and announced the short- to mid-term replacement of the DC-10s already.

And is a 15 year old B747-200 really old? No, I don´t think so. It´s just half way through its life.

From its looks Northwest even has the most interesting fleet of all US airlines. I mean, look what CO or Delta is flying, aren´t their fleets boring? Or the far-from-impressive all-twin fleet of AA? Come on, don´t tell they have a nice fleet for such a big airline.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

Folks, let's face this obvious fact.

The NW DC-9 fleet is starting to getting to get old despite the excellent maintainance efforts of the airline. They do need to replace these planes over the next ten years.

This is why I think NW will probably look at a fairly substantial A319 buy along with a large order for RJ's in the next 3-4 years for Mesaba.


User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

While they may not have the newest fleet, they do have reliable aircraft, and the are retiring several aircraft in the coming months.

Additionally, rather than spending millions on new aircraft, they maintain the current ones and deliver lower fares.

By your standards, Delta, American and to a large extent Southwest and United are bad airlines since they too operate several older aircraft (727's, MD-80's, 737-200's).

Thanks, but I'll fly on a DC-9-10 any day over an MD-80 is it's going to get me there cheaper and not fall out of the sky!



Climbing
User currently offlineN728DL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

Yes, Northwest does have the worst fleet in the industry, But its the only airline that still flyes most of the classics

N728DL


User currently offlineJZ From United States of America, joined May 1999, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

I don't think old planes equal unsafe planes. However, older planes do present marketing and cost problems. Today on the Pacific route, NW is the only one still relies heavily on 747-200s while everyone else uses 744, 777 or 340. The average passengers are likely to choose newer planes over older ones. Plus, the 744 is more efficient to operate than 742. The same goes for 767/777 vs. DC-10 on European, transcontinental and Hawaiian routes

User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

NW Loads for 03AUG2001:

seats sold / total on a/c
NW 19 MSP-NRT 324/ 343
NW 83 MSP-NRT 332/ 353
NW 07 SEA-NRT 228 / 292

They all are like this, so I would have to say they are certainly filling their airplanes, and their customers don't seem to mind the "old" aircraft.

By the way, this information was taken from PARS, the NW computer system.



Climbing
User currently offline777D From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 300 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

I agree the dc-9 fleet is old and most likely in good shape but the efficiency issue of these aircraft must be looked. I assume the fuel consumption of a a319 or a320 is far superior to a dc-9 as well mordern equipment and most important safety. If NWA goes to a narrowbody domestic fleet they will be missing out on a lot of cargo. NWA flies freighters out of SEATAC and they need to feed those freighters. SEATAC alone cannot fill those planes!! That is what I have heard anyways. Narrowbody domestic fleet is out of the questions unless NWA wants to lose it's shorts in the cargo world.

I agree that the 742's are old and once again they are inefficient compared to other carriers. Fuel, turnaround, comfort, cargo and marketing issues are major factors and perhaps NWA does have this in works....

777D



User currently offlineSFOFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1350 times:

I can't say that I agree with NW's fleet being the worst in the industry. It's certainly dated, but my vote for worst (at least in the States) would be shared between CO and Delta. I do lament NW not continuing domestic widebody service. I mainly fly UA for their fleet. I am often on the SFO-ORD route, operated by a wide variety of a/c. I always book with a 767,777, or 747. Personally, I wish other U.S. carriers had more domestic widebody service available. I find both the 757 and a319/320 very cramped. I've flown these aircraft on UA, NW, and Delta (757 only). If I've got to be on a single aisle jet, I'll take a next generation 737.


UA 1K Million Mile Flyer
User currently offlineWhistler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1341 times:

"The average passengers are likely to choose newer planes over older ones."

I sorta disagree with that, the average passenger probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 747-100 and a 747-400 unless they were parked right next to eachother for comparison Big grin.


User currently offlineCo LITE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

Northwest has an excellent fleet. Widebodies? Who needs them. You like being stuck in the middle of the plane going to SFO from ORD? Gotta use the lav during dinner, forget it. The narrowbodies are better, because you can get out into the aisle easier, and you have a less chance of being in the "middle seat"!!!!!. I dont know about you, but I prefer narrowbodies. The DC-9 fleet has been remodeled with new seats, and is always kept clean.

User currently offlineSFOFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Co Lite - If you book well in advance (as I do) on domestic widebodies, there's usually no problem getting the 2 outside seats on UA flights. I've done the segment nearly 30 times and have only been stuck in the middle twice. I'm still a dedicated domestic widebody traveler!


UA 1K Million Mile Flyer
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4191 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1320 times:

I gotta agree with Co LITE on the domestic widebody issue.. id much rather be sitting in coach on a 757 or A320 than cramed in the middle of a widebody.


Braniff727- might i ask how you got onto PARS?



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

I have connections. I know a lot of people at NWA.


Climbing
User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

I dunno bout NW having the worst fleet. As has been discussed previously, new does equate better. A320s are not the most comforatble planes to fly on. I'm not expert, but once I'm inside a 742, I KNOW I'm inside a classic.. it's really a toss up with that issue.

For me, I don't give a rats ass how old the plane is except for these things:
1) Noise
2) Interior - older interiors are less comfortable
3) Maintainance - Take the L1011 - how often is it delayed due to mechanical probs?

Seat pitch, condition of interior, etc are all the responsibility of the carrier anywaysm but I always see it as a decision they have to make when configuruing these thigns anyways..


User currently offlineTimmsp From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

NW has one of the best fleets in the US. Where else can you find a wide variety of well maintained aircraft?

I recently flew on a 35 year old DC-9 from MSP to BDL.
The interior was in good shape and no hunks of metal were missing from the exterior.

I had a great window seat just behind the wing and lo and behold....the wing did not fall off during flight!

Their 727, 757, DC 9's of NW appear sleek and athletic when watching them takeoff or land, like they were meant to fly. Their DC-10's, in my opinion, look like the old Detriot muscle cars of the 70's. Nobody can deny the impact of being up close to a 747, no matter its age.

The only thing I have against their current fleet are the "new" A320's. I hate the way they look - you guessed it - buses with no grace or style.



User currently offlineCo LITE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1297 times:

The DC-9 makes you feel like flying! Thats why I like it over the CRJ. Classics are great planes. NWA knows how to maintain old planes to the fullest extent.

25 Post contains images Superfly : NORTHWEST IS THE BEST! ! ! ! !
26 Mlsrar : Northwest's business plan does include a heavy focus on cargo. They are the only US major to include a fleet of 747 cargo haulers...United has officia
27 DIA : I like the fact they are still using "classics." They're built to last way past what we think of as "old aircraft." Look at DC-3s. . .still going stro
28 SESGDL : NWA does have the oldest fleet, but we won't ever see DC-9's or MD-80's after CO, DL, and AA change to the 4 types fleets. I would love to see DC-9's
29 OO-VEG : Please come on. OLD is not necessarilt BAD. If Northwest maintain their aircraft well there is nothing to fear about. Each aircraft gets its D-check a
30 Critter592 : The DC9-10/20/30/40/50/80/90/95(717) make you WANT TO FLY. You get off and three days later, you wanna get back on it and just go. Douglas has built f
31 ContinentalEWR : To be fair, NW is upgrading its fleet with a few more 747-400's, more A320/A319, 35 new A330's to replace the DC10 fleet, and more CRJ's but this is a
32 Timmsp : That's odd. I feel the same way about CO as COEWR feels about NW. I've heard that CO is going to an all ERJ fleet and become an even more insignifican
33 NW-ELITE : ContinentalEWR, NW is the only reason CO is still around now.
34 Notar520AC : Northwest has one of the oldest/newest fleets in the world, and I like to go on the oldies! If you hate their fleet so much go design your own. An old
35 Post contains images Airlinelover : On the contrary to what Airbus_330_340 said, I say NWA has the BEST fleet. And agreeing with Timmsp, I think CO has the WORST fleet. Also agreeing wit
36 Airbus_330_340 : I actually like the DC-10s that Northwest flies (infact i always fly on them if I have a choice) but I am saying that they have the worst fleet in the
37 Airbus_330_340 : No one wants to fly on a cramped 753 for over four hours!
38 Fjnovak1 : Actually, IMO both NW and CO are great airlines, and they are learning from one another about how to run a great airline. Continental has the benefits
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