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Tahiti Seeks Virgin Australia Investment  
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1301 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Interesting story out that the President of French Polynesia will be meeting with Virgin Australia boss John Borgetti in coming weeks to discuss possible partnerships with Air Tahiti Nui.

While a code-share is likely along with renewal of air link between Sydney and FP, President Temaru is seeking some form of investment in Air Tahiti Nui possibly modeled after the Virgin Samoa partnership.

Per Temaru the continued economic struggles in the Europe and the US make the Oceania region along with Asia the needed focus to drive tourism and trade to FP, so a link with Australia would be an important component.

Story: (in French)
http://www.lesnouvelles.pf/article/c...-fait-la-une/oscar-mise-sur-virgin

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

This should be interesting to see if it goes ahead on two levels that I can see. The first why didn't TN approach QF (or did they and they knocked it back?) after all, there is an existing codeshare with QF via AKL and interline airfares with QF


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User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5727 times:
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Quoting mercure1 (Thread starter):
While a code-share is likely along with renewal of air link between Sydney and FP, President Temaru is seeking some form of investment in Air Tahiti Nui possibly modeled after the Virgin Samoa partnership.

Virgin Samoa (ex-Polynesian Blue) may be the best thing that ever happened to the airlines of the small island nations.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Virgin Samoa (ex-Polynesian Blue) may be the best thing that ever happened to the airlines of the small island nations.

mariner

Possible take over and Air Tahiti Nui to become Virgin Tahiti Nui Airlines?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5660 times:
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Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
Possible take over and Air Tahiti Nui to become Virgin Tahiti Nui Airlines?

Sounds good to me - or just Virgin Tahiti.

I wish Qantas had developed a similar structure with its investment in Air Pacific.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24847 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

Yes might be a good opportunity to repair the dismal performance of ATN.

I can already imagine "Virgin Polynesie" with eventual small fleet of 737NG and A330.

[Edited 2012-01-23 20:31:55]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
I wish Qantas had developed a similar structure with its investment in Air Pacific.

Last I heard QF was selling it's share in FJ...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5568 times:
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Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Last I heard QF was selling it's share in FJ...?

Yeah, I heard that, too. Another opportunity for Branson/Borghetti - Virgin Fiji?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
Yeah, I heard that, too. Another opportunity for Branson/Borghetti - Virgin Fiji?

Virgin Pacific sounds better to me 

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
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Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Last I heard QF was selling it's share in FJ...?

Trying to sell... not sure whether they will find anyone willing to buy.

Back to the main story, the government of French Polynesia definitely need to take drastic action of some sort. The question is whether it will be politically acceptable to give Virgin the power to make uncomfortable/unpopular decisions.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
Back to the main story, the government of French Polynesia definitely need to take drastic action of some sort. The question is whether it will be politically acceptable to give Virgin the power to make uncomfortable/unpopular decisions.

Unfortunately in situations like these the government really have no choice but to allow another carrier with better managing decisions to step in and try save the National carrier...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5342 times:
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Quoting EK413 (Reply 10):
Unfortunately in situations like these the government really have no choice but to allow another carrier with better managing decisions to step in and try save the National carrier...

Don't get me wrong, I agree 100%, but the urge to meddle runs deep with some governments, I am not sure how 'hands off' the government would be in the end.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7165 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5313 times:

It could be very interesting, and it is certainly better than keeping TN as it is.

It could be prudent to use the VA 332s or NZ 763s as a stopgap for TN instead of their 343 fleet which is unsuitable fr the purposes of TN.

Perhaps if NZ purchased a controlling percentage in TN/FJ as well as VA they could really control the South Pacific with a mixed fleet of 738s/332s that could be used by any of the 3 other pacific carriers and codeshares on all service as their demands require.

They could comfortably run linking flights between NAN/RAR/PPT linking the japanese and american markets via PPT, The Chinese/HKG market via NAN. Under one livery/company it could be a small but strong carrier. Not a new concept I know (FJ was supposed to be like this originally)


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

At the risk of sounding rude, Mercure1 sounds like the only person who has read the original article.

The article runs something like this:

1. Aggie Grey's hotels have bough Le Meridien hotel on Tahiti.
2. Aggie Grey's also own a part of Polynesian Blue/Virgin Samoa, and have passed on stories of how inbound tourism from Australia has exploded, and the French Polynesian President is interested.

But at the point, I should sound a note of caution. Samoa's hotel inventory is all in the 2-4 star range, and an LCC model from Australia works well.

But the majority of French Polynesia's hotel inventory is 5 star overwater bungalows, with prevailing nightly rates around $1000.

At the end of the cited article, Air New Zealand's Tahiti manager Christel Bole cautions that Tahiti is a poor fit for the Virgin model, as distances are much longer and low-cost fits poorly with the visitor demographic required for those hotels to make money.

I would add that French Polynesia has frequent government changes, and that this President represents an underprivileged working-class demographic which has little interest in luxury tourism.

As I've made clear elsewhere, I think that Air New Zealand, Air Calin and Air Tahiti Nui need to stop flying concurrent half-empty aircraft from Asia and need to cooperate and hub these flights.



But whereas Virgin's model is fine for Australia-Pacific islands, it's a hopeless mismatch for USA-Pacific islands.


User currently offlinehornetfan From New Zealand, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

Not 100% certain, but wouldn't Air Tahiti Nui have rights as a European airline, and as such any purchaser would gain those rights, it may make it difficult for NZ or QF to buy more than 49% but potentially VA could buy 100% if the purchase was done through the Virgin group out of London.

Just a thought


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5135 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
At the risk of sounding rude, Mercure1 sounds like the only person who has read the original article.

At the risk of sounding rude right back at you.... the article posted is available in French only and this is an English language forum.... are you really surprised that not everyone has read it? ( Although I plead guilty, I ought to have read it and didn't ...j'ai honte    )

Having read it now, I (belatedly) see what you mean.

[Edited 2012-01-24 01:14:29]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5128 times:
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Quoting hornetfan (Reply 14):
Not 100% certain, but wouldn't Air Tahiti Nui have rights as a European airline, and as such any purchaser would gain those rights, it may make it difficult for NZ or QF to buy more than 49% but potentially VA could buy 100% if the purchase was done through the Virgin group out of London.

French Polynesia is not actually part of the EU, it is a French Overseas Territory, so I am not sure whether TN counts as an EU carrier . Koruman, do you know?

PS ... also @ Koruman ... is "fenua" in Tahitian the equivalent of "whenua" in Maori?

[Edited 2012-01-24 00:57:51]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
I am not sure whether TN counts as an EU carrier

Air Tahiti Nui is absolutely an EU carrier and as such a few years ago when NZ's traffic rights from the USA to London were capped at 400 seats per day I suggested that Air NZ swap equity to allow it to operate additional services to the UK and EU.

In 2012, however, NZ has any rights it needs, but a CEO who has bad memories of his failed tenure as CEO of a major UK TV channel, and who seems keen to give Singapore Airlines and Emirates a stranglehold on the NZ-UK market.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

Ive always thought that PPT would make a great stopover on a flight from South America (say GRU) on its way to somewhere in Asia (say NRT). I wonder if Air Tahiti Nui could tap into that market. Personally I'm unsure what Virgin Australia would be able to offer. There is a big difference between the routes that Virgin Samoa operates (SYD-APW 4300 km) and the routes that a 'Virgin Tahiti' would operate (SYD-PPT 6200.00 km) and thus couldn't be operated by a Boeing 737-800. I don't think Virgin Australia would want to acquire another Airbus A330-200 (I am aware they have two on order) to operate routes that are currently loss making. Too much risk, especially considering that Tahiti is a relativity premium destination and Virgin Australia is a still a LCC.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
Virgin Pacific sounds better to me 

That is the name that Pacific Blue should have been given after the re-branding, rather than just becoming another part of Virgin Australia.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 12):
Perhaps if NZ purchased a controlling percentage in TN/FJ as well as VA they could really control the South Pacific with a mixed fleet of 738s/332s that could be used by any of the 3 other pacific carriers and codeshares on all service as their demands require.

They could comfortably run linking flights between NAN/RAR/PPT linking the japanese and american markets via PPT, The Chinese/HKG market via NAN. Under one livery/company it could be a small but strong carrier. Not a new concept I know (FJ was supposed to be like this originally)

I like this idea however Air New Zealand's management have shown over that last few years that they are averse to even moderate risk.
 



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4937 times:
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Quoting hornetfan (Reply 14):
Not 100% certain, but wouldn't Air Tahiti Nui have rights as a European airline, and as such any purchaser would gain those rights, it may make it difficult for NZ or QF to buy more than 49% but potentially VA could buy 100% if the purchase was done through the Virgin group out of London.

The beauty of the Virgin Samoa model is that it remains a Samoan airline. Virgin Australia has the minority shareholder at 49%, as set-up by the World Bank. The Samoan government holds 49% and Aggie Grey Hotels own the critical 2%.

As such it remains a Samoan airline with all the rights pertaining to a Samoan airline. But it is managed and operated by Virgin Australia, under very specific contract terms.

Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
At the end of the cited article, Air New Zealand's Tahiti manager Christel Bole cautions that Tahiti is a poor fit for the Virgin model, as distances are much longer and low-cost fits poorly with the visitor demographic required for those hotels to make money.

Of course he says that. He speaks for a competing airline - which lost the bid for the restructure of Polynesian.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDJMEL From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

May I point out to all that Virgin Australia is no longer a LCC, we have a lower cost base than QF, we now have a Business Class operating on the majority routes. We would not have a secured a one brand strategy had it been for Mr Borghetti coming on board and taking us upmarket - remember SQ owns 49% of Virgin Atlantic and they have a major say on how the Virgin brand name is used - to protect there investment, they would not allow previous management team to use the Virgin name because Virgin Blue was seen as a low cost carrier, hence why Pacific Blue was born in 2005 and V Australia was born in 2008 and now confined to Airline trash can thanks to Mr Borghetti and SQ'S Mr Goh - so do not be surprised if you see a Virgin Tahiti A330-200 winging its way from SYD to PPT within 12 months.
Mr Borghetti is a very smart man remember this EY were in bed with QF when he was EGM at QF now they are in bed with VIrgin Australia. so don't be surprised if TN cut all ties with QF - and defect to Virgin Australia and how ironic would that be seeing as TN used to be the code for Australian Airlines and Mr Borghetti used to work for QF!!!!


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4865 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Of course he says that. He speaks for a competing airline - which lost the bid for the restructure of Polynesian.

mariner

given all that has been said, NZ's about 19% of Virgin Aus. will carry some weight if Mr Fyfe's predeliction for the status quo prevails unless the Virgin group holding out votes him. If in fact there is anything in all of this it could be an interesting standoff between Mr Borghetti and Mr Fyfe. What is the Board representation of the various interests on Virgin Australia.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4513 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
But whereas Virgin's model is fine for Australia-Pacific islands, it's a hopeless mismatch for USA-Pacific islands.

Hawaiian Airlines does okay on US/Tahiti and I would suggest there is little to choose between their service and the new-fashioned Virgin Australia - if anything the guernsey goes to the Aussie airline.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 21):
given all that has been said, NZ's about 19% of Virgin Aus. will carry some weight if Mr Fyfe's predeliction for the status quo prevails unless the Virgin group holding out votes him. If in fact there is anything in all of this it could be an interesting standoff between Mr Borghetti and Mr Fyfe.

IF this were to happen - and I very much hope it does, or something like it - it is hard to think that Mr. Fyfe/Air NZ would - or could - try to stop it, the numbers aren't there.

Air NZ misses out on an opportunity? Tough. Qantas has missed out on a similar opportunity with Air Pacific, although whether the present government of Fiji would be amenable to the idea is unknown to me.

What the World Bank understood with restructure of Polynesian was that the airlines of these small island nations are not financially viable without massive subsidy (Air Nauru, anyone?), but that issues of national status (and pride) were involved. There was no patriarchal takeover by a foreign airline, but from the git-go, the newly restructured Polynesian Blue (Virgin Samoa) was transformed into an efficient and profitable airline. What had been a drain on the tiny Samoan economy became net positive to that economy.

I could wish that someone would try and structure a similar deal with "Our Airline" - the successor to Air Nauru. It is tough for me to believe that a one aircraft airline with a home base on the Pacific's ugliest island, almost completely lacking in tourist infrastructure, is a viable enterprise.

I suppose it can be argued that the Australian government was helping to subsidize it with the Norfolk Island contract, but that has now gone to Air NZ.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
is a poor fit for the Virgin model
Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Hawaiian Airlines does okay on US/Tahiti and I would suggest there is little to choose between their service and the new-fashioned Virgin Australia - if anything the guernsey goes to the Aussie airline

Over 85% of Hawaiian's passengers on HNL-PPT are Tahitians going to Honolulu to shop - it is not a route which provides any tangible inbound tourism for French Polynesia.

The French Pacific Franc is pegged to the Euro, so Tahitians have great buying power in Hawaii, while in French Polynesia sales taxes are immense.

Hawaiian's model fits, because the main destination for those Tahitian shoppers is the Wal-Mart behind Ala Moana. The Tahitians fly overnight up to Honolulu on the Saturday, and fly back home on the afternoon of the following Saturday.

But don't think that this model is a solution for filling around a thousand overwater bungalows on Bora Bora and Taha'a, because it really isn't.

Those bungalows need to be filled by people whose tax returns look like Mitt Romney's, who find an airline with a cabin which would tempt them to fly on it instead of in a private jet.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4222 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 23):
Those bungalows need to be filled by people whose tax returns look like Mitt Romney's, who find an airline with a cabin which would tempt them to fly on it instead of in a private jet.

You clearly have a different view of what we might call the jetset from my own, and In have a fair experience of them. Some - but very few - of my acquaintances have tax returns that look like Mitt Romney's - (mine surely doesn't) - yet they are frequent visitors to Tahiti.

My experience of the well-heeled (as opposed to the mega-rich) is that they just as likely to look for deals as anyone else, it is simply that their deals are pitched at a somewhat higher level.

When I worked in Hollywood, I knew many people who were in love with Air NZ's flights to London, precisely because they could save a buck, especially in the pointy end - a point that you have frequently made.

It is the reason that so many in Hollywood embraced JetBlue - they were bored with being ripped off by the legacy carriers, where the supposed First Class had become minimalist. JetBlue achieved extraordinary awareness in a very short space of time. About six months after JetBlue started flying to LA - LGB not LAX - I was checking into the Four Seasons and the bloke in front of me, in an Armani suit, dropped a tiny headset from his pocket. The bell hop picked it up and, with a grin, handed it back to the man saying "JetBlue."

And what are the choices LAX-PPT? Hawaiian, Air France - which many of my American friends don't particularly like - or Air Tahiti Nui, which isn't doing all that well.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 aerokiwi : Isn't AKL-PPT only about an hour longer than AKL-APW? And anyway, Virgin is increasingly unlike a traditional LCC. So? You would think that if your t
26 6thfreedom : great response DJMEL. I was going to say the something. Just because QF doesn't do something doesn't mean it's not a good idea. JB has proved that wi
27 koruman : I acknowledge many of the above points, but I must still partially rebutt them. It's just a fact of life that much of French Polynesia's hotel invento
28 Post contains links mariner : This can go on forever, we both have a different view of tourism, especially in the Pacific and obviously high-end. I'll simply point out the number
29 Lufthansa : Almost but lets not forget the french. how about "virgin pacifique"
30 koruman : Mariner, we're slightly at cross purposes here, and I started it with my Mitt Romney quip. The Tahiti Tourisme figure of $24,000 per US couple across
31 mariner : We are certainly at cross purposes, but nothing to do with Mitt Romney. I thought you were talking about "the rich", but now you say you are only tal
32 LAXintl : Seems to me this whole concept that Tahiti is for the rich jetset type is part of what is wrong today. Tahiti until recent years was also a mass marke
33 koruman : I think LAXintl is right on the money. Successive French and French Polynesian governments have been far too quick to give excessive tax concessions f
34 AF Cabin Crew : O. Temaru, president of the government of French Polynesia said on TV last night that they have chosen to align themselves with oneworld. This choice
35 koruman : A very interesting choice. I would have thought that the choice should have been driven by which US and Canadian carriers have the biggest footprint
36 AF Cabin Crew : Star Alliance was not even considered according to him. It was between oneworld and skyTEAM.
37 AF Cabin Crew : In the papers today, the CEO said that the board of directors hasn't confirmed the choice of oneworld at all. They are still reviewing oneworld and sk
38 kiwiandrew : Regardless of what the board decide they still have to persuade the alliance of their choice to agree. They seem to be a lovely airline, but I am not
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