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First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS  
User currently offlinenantoine From France, joined Apr 2004, 36 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29908 times:

I just noticed that the first KLM A330-300 is on the flight line in TLS today, fully painted.

Has anyone managed to snag a pic?

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10010 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 29850 times:

Apparently the aircraft is behind a building or hangar near a Beluga and only the tail section can be seen from public locations. Looking forward to seeing the first photos and hoping to see it here in CUR soon as MD11 replacement!!!

A388


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1725 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 29797 times:

I don't think KL will deploy it to CUR, I can see a 772ER operating to CUR, but no 333's for the first 5 or 6 years.

When is the first KL 333 due for delivery?



flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineHacku From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2011, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 29403 times:

http://www.aviavliegwereld.nl/archives/1412

First delivery is scheduled for March. KLM will fly the A333 to Lagos, Washington Dulles and Accra.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10010 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 29143 times:

Quoting Hacku (Reply 4):

First delivery is scheduled for March. KLM will fly the A333 to Lagos, Washington Dulles and Accra.

That clears it up, thanks. I don't understand why KL always decides to use brandnew aircraft to destinations in Africa where they have no direct competition while their routes to the Caribbean does have competition. Are these African destination so high yielding that they need brandnew aircraft?

I can see DALCE's points as KL has always had a policy of sending their oldest aircraft to the former Netherlands Antilles/Caribbean but I never understood why the mentioned African destination do get brandnew aircraft while they have no direct competition on those routes. Is competition from surrounding EU countries to these destinations so important that brandnew aircraft are a must on these routes?

A388


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 28338 times:

Quoting DALCE (Reply 2):

I don't think KL will deploy it to CUR, I can see a 772ER operating to CUR, but no 333's for the first 5 or 6 years.
Quoting A388 (Reply 4):
That clears it up, thanks. I don't understand why KL always decides to use brandnew aircraft to destinations in Africa where they have no direct competition while their routes to the Caribbean does have competition.

You are reading way too much into 'new aircraft' and favored or not-favored routes. Cabin configurations can make a difference, but the age of the airframe is hardly a factor. Just think about the 747s; the oldest long-haul aircraft in KLMs fleet, but with the highest number of C-seats, and flying to top business destinations like JFK, LAX or NRT.

For ACC and LOS, they are simply perfect routes for the 333: 7 hour flight, high cargo demand, exactly the envelope of the 333. It also makes room for the M11 or 772 to serve longer routes, those that the 333 is less suitable for.

Additionally, there is one big advantage:

AMS-ACC 15:15-21:00
ACC-AMS 23:00-06:50

AMS-LOS 12:45-19:35
LOS-AMS 23:30-06:15

These routes can be operated by one airframe. So the first 333 can simply fly the ACC-route daily, and 2 airframes allow for a daily AMS-LOS-AMS too. This gives good aircraft utilization, and the possibility for optimal crew scheduling. IAD can also be flown with 1 frame, and will be combined with 332 service (same pilots).

Now, the Caribbean triangle routes served by the M11, can't be flown with 1 frame. Like KL 761:

AMS-CUR 12:45-17:50
CUR-BON-AMS 19:15-11:10

The turnaround at AMS is too short to do the same triangle with 1 aircraft. This makes scheduling more complex, and in order to allow for efficient scheduling, a larger fleet is required.

Next to the practical point, short routes are better suited for crew training. That's why LOS, ACC, but also JFK, IAD, or one of the Middle East routes, often see new aircraft types.

Whether or not we'll see the 333 in AUA, BON or CUR remains to be seen. Range-wise, it's on the edge of the envelope for the 333, but it might be just fine for the new 233t versions.

But for the reasons stated above, I actually expect YUL to switch from M11 to 333 sooner than any of the other routes.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10010 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 28234 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
But for the reasons stated above, I actually expect YUL to switch from M11 to 333 sooner than any of the other routes.

Thank you Joost, for route proving it makes sense but the new version of the A333 can do longhaul flights so a 7 hour flight might be under utilization of the aircraft's capabilities slightly. I'm seeing KL using the 777 to CUR in the future but I still do hope we will see their A333 as well.

A388


User currently offlinecaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 28157 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
But for the reasons stated above, I actually expect YUL to switch from M11 to 333 sooner than any of the other routes

I was also expecting YUL to be one of the first A333 destinations too. I would have thought it would have been good replacement aircraft for such a mature market. There is however no competition on the run to force change either. I'm a little baffled why Montreal seems to be so under the radar at KLM..


User currently offlineWeb From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 28154 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
Next to the practical point, short routes are better suited for crew training.

How much of an issue is this, given that KL already has the A332?



Next flight: GRR-ORD-PDX-SEA-ORD-GRR
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2613 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 28117 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
Whether or not we'll see the 333 in AUA, BON or CUR remains to be seen. Range-wise, it's on the edge of the envelope for the 333, but it might be just fine for the new 233t versions.

Actually its well with in the range of the A333, AMS-CUR is 4232nm max range from Airbus is 5850nm



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 28042 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 6):
but the new version of the A333 can do longhaul flights so a 7 hour flight might be under utilization of the aircraft's capabilities slightly.

Of course, the 333 can also do 9:00 sectors; but using M11 or 772 on ACC or LOS makes even less sense, as they are capable of doing longer longer routes, and required to do so.

What other aircraft would you schedule on LOS, ACC or IAD?

The 333 is practically the perfect aircraft for all routes you don't want to waste the long-haul capabilities of the 772 on. The 772s range and low fuel consumption (compared to 744) is required for South American, South African and SE Asia routes. The 772 can be used on shorter routes for scheduling purposes (or C-class demand), but actually the 333 is preferred for anything below 9 hours.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2448 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 27685 times:

Is there any pictures out there? I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well..


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 27496 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well..

No, they'll have GE engines.


User currently offlinemd11dude From Canada, joined May 2004, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 26377 times:

Stange, Workers here are saying YYC is getting the 333 next summer unstead of the MD-11. Im a bit choked to be honest. Otherwise, I swore I still saw that YUL was still flying it this summer in the system??. I think YVR will never see the threeholer again either.
Ive been planning an interline MD-11 trip this summer, and now I don't know where the heck im going out of (north america) that will be a safe bet for my beloved threeholer. Nothing against the 330 (I love em too) but that MD sure is something special!



CP979
User currently offlinenipoel123 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25871 times:

Quoting md11dude (Reply 13):
Ive been planning an interline MD-11 trip this summer, and now I don't know where the heck im going out of (north america) that will be a safe bet for my beloved threeholer.

I'd say YUL is your best bet. It is currently listed as M11 for the summer (at least in July and August). I'm coming to Canada this summer, but I can't persuade my parents to fly via YUL to YYZ, if only I could afford it myself... But I guess I have to put up with a 74M and a 772.



one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
User currently offlineYchocky From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25730 times:

Quoting md11dude (Reply 13):
Stange, Workers here are saying YYC is getting the 333 next summer unstead of the MD-11. Im a bit choked to be honest. Otherwise, I swore I still saw that YUL was still flying it this summer in the system??. I think YVR will never see the threeholer again either.
Ive been planning an interline MD-11 trip this summer, and now I don't know where the heck im going out of (north america) that will be a safe bet for my beloved threeholer. Nothing against the 330 (I love em too) but that MD sure is something special!

I flew KL671 on Sunday aboard PH-KCA "Amy Johnson" I made a point to talk with the crew and they stated they have not received any indication of it's phase out.

I plan to fly aboard the last YUL MD-11 and if possible the last KL MD-11. Would be a real treat. We were again treated on sunday to a roaring departure off the Kaagbaan which will soon be only a memory.

Looking forward to the A330-300 in KLM colours as the GE CF6's make this bird stunning.


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23386 times:

Can we expect any follow up orders for the A333 (bearing in mind that we can expect the B789 in 2016 or - which can be quite likely - later in 2017 or 2018)?

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
For ACC and LOS, they are simply perfect routes for the 333: 7 hour flight, high cargo demand

Remember that - for instance - AY, LH and LX use their A333 for flights up to 10 hours (FRA-YVC, HEL-INC, ZRH-MIA etc.). The A333 is the king of the medium haul ranges.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well.

I have heard that the CF6-80E1 engines are the most powerful engines for the A330 but why are the RR Trent 700 engines so popular for the A330?


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 22874 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 16):
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well.

I have heard that the CF6-80E1 engines are the most powerful engines for the A330 but why are the RR Trent 700 engines so popular for the A330?

I know it won't be the reason but the RR power plant certainly look far better on the A330 than the CF6 engines...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinekl692 From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 22727 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):

I for one take this comment of urs personal. Are you saying that African routes does not require better A/C. Acc for starters have been very good to KL. perhaps u should do some study on how big of a player acc is becoming in the aviation world in Africa. If anything I see it as KL rewarding the AMS - ACC route.



A310, A330,A346,B73H, B747,B772,B77W,CRJ
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 22648 times:

Quoting md11dude (Reply 13):
Stange, Workers here are saying YYC is getting the 333 next summer unstead of the MD-11.

Currently the 332 is loaded for AMS-YYC, 6x weekly 25 Mar - 31 May, daily 31 May - 27 Oct. Considering the frequency increase, and the fact that the 333s are already dedicated to other routes, the 332 seems most likely for YYC.

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 16):
Remember that - for instance - AY, LH and LX use their A333 for flights up to 10 hours (FRA-YVC, HEL-INC, ZRH-MIA etc.). The A333 is the king of the medium haul ranges.

10 hours is towards the economical edge of the 333, especially for westbound sectors. For these 10 hour sectors, the required payload makes the difference between the 333 and 343/772.

Also, keep in mind that LX and LH have lower density configurations:
LH: 8F/48C/165M = 221
LX: 8F/45C/183M = 236
KL: 30C / 262M = 292

Now, 71 additional passengers + baggage, that's some 7 ton additional payload that KL's 333 would want to carry, compared to LX or LH. 7 ton, that's 500nm range at MTOW.


User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 22599 times:

Does anyone have any pictures of this?

I bet it looks stunning.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlinenotaxonrotax From Ecuador, joined Mar 2011, 540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 22435 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kl692 (Reply 18):

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):

I for one take this comment of urs personal. Are you saying that African routes does not require better A/C. Acc for starters have been very good to KL. perhaps u should do some study on how big of a player acc is becoming in the aviation world in Africa. If anything I see it as KL rewarding the AMS - ACC route.


Easy, easy will do it. Why do you take it personal?
I thought the questions were fair; as a fanatic "Air Tycoon" player as I am!
Good questions, that now have been answered.


Quick question in general: has this airframe flown before?
Airbus flies them in the "green-ish" test colors, right??

Would be cool to see it in full glory; under the "typical" AMS-sun!!

No Tax On Rotax



For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
User currently offlinephotoshooter From Belgium, joined Feb 2010, 456 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 22414 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Can't wait to see an A333 with KL's livery on it  
Although I don't get the point in having a fleet with 332, 333, 772, 77W, MD11, 744s?
Any rumors they'll replace some older aircraft with some 333s?
I don't want to pay KL's mechanical bill 


Niek  



'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
User currently offline747ata32 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 45 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 22174 times:

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 22):
Any rumors they'll replace some older aircraft with some 333s?

The 333s will replace the first MD11's.
This year 3 333's will be added. 4 MD11's will be phased out. By 2014 all MD11's will have left the fleet. More 333's and 77W's will be added.

744's are still holding strong. No firm info on their phase out, though one should not forget that about half of KLs 744 fleet isn't that old. BFY was delivered in 2001. The ERF freighters in 2003, 2004 and 2007.



Flown: 733, 734, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 743, 744, M11, 752, 763, F100, F70, SF340, A319, A320, A321, A332, 772, 77W, D10, D
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21963 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 16):
Can we expect any follow up orders for the A333 (bearing in mind that we can expect the B789 in 2016 or - which can be quite likely - later in 2017 or 2018)?
Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
More 333's and 77W's will be added.

Any source?

Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
744's are still holding strong. No firm info on their phase out, though one should not forget that about half of KLs 744 fleet isn't that old.

On the website (http://www.klm.com/corporate/nl/images/58143_KLM%20Annual%20Report%20NL_web_tcm730-354029.pdf) KLM claims that their pax 747 is 21 years old on avarge (August 2011) and the combis were 17 years old. I think that is quite old considering that their B777s, A330s and even the MD-11s are (a lot) younger.

The 747s have a special place in the KL fleet but - except for the freighter planes - isn't it about time to confirm the A359 to replace the B744? Or to order more A333/B77W to use it as an interim option?


25 ghifty : 332: 253 M11: 285 333: 300 772: 300-400 77W: 365-451 744: 467 *arranged by capacity As you can see, all the aircraft they operate don't share the sam
26 aerokiwi : I totally disagree. I think the GE's look sleek and sharp, while the RRs look bulky and clunky, like they've overdosed on the cowling.
27 YULWinterSkies : There is in-house competition from AF, and real competition from BA and LX, as well as AC with LH connections at FRA, as I imagine that most people o
28 Post contains images PM : Are you perhaps mixing up the two engines?
29 FlyASAGuy2005 : What? No pics!! I think a 333 in KL blue would be so sexy..
30 Newark727 : Are they still flying some of them as combis? That's one reason I can think of why a replacement might be harder to come by. Maybe not a very good re
31 KaiGywer : But combine the two routes, and two planes can operate both routes on opposite days. AMS-ACC 15:15-21:00 ACC-AMS 23:00-06:50 AMS-CUR 12:45-17:50 CUR-
32 FlyASAGuy2005 : Which is exactly how many routes like these are actually planned.
33 Post contains images aerokiwi : At the risk of going wildly off-topic... nope. I've always thought the RRs were ungainly. Heard one spotter describe them as "pint glasses". The cowl
34 frigatebird : With 25 787-9's on order and 10 787-9's to be leased from ILFC, I tend to think the 789 will replace the 747combis and the A359 will arrive only when
35 76er : The easy answer when is comes to 747-combi replacement is: there IS no replacement (yet).
36 kl5147 : I count 16 out of 21 PH-BFA Boeing 747-406 City of Atlanta PH-BFB Boeing 747-406 City of Bangkok PH-BFC Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Calgary / asia-tit
37 Post contains images 747ata32 : Yes. But I can't share that
38 lexer : There she is.
39 A388 : I agree notaxonrotax, I didn't mean to offend kl692 or anyone else for that matter. I was just curious what thinking KL uses for their aircraft utili
40 Post contains images kl5147 : Thankz, I knew I was something missing
41 Post contains images photoshooter : Which is sad news.. I really want to log a KL MD11 before they're gone! Which is pretty expensive , no ? Niek
42 caribb : Yes of course you are right and in that light every city in Europe served has competiton of some sort via another hub or via an alliance partner. I w
43 frigatebird : Yes. KL currently operates 5, with 2 more on order (and I've heard another one will come through a leasing firm). These weren't meant to replace the
44 mdutch : You missed PH-BFY Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Johannesburg
45 A388 : That sounds good and I also expected such a move but they will need to order more 77W's if they want to use the 77W on a daily basis to CUR and opera
46 notaxonrotax : 1 route that is 77W, I believe 3 * weekly is UIO-GYE. I have heard rumours that this will go B772, 5 * weekly soon. No Tax On Rotax
47 Post contains images Ychocky : Is there a Matt Cawby in TLS? Can someone confirm the regs for the 3 ships on order? I found: PH-AKA PH-AKB PH-AKD Also I see the first is to be named
48 Post contains images virginblue4 : Still no photos? When will there be photos???
49 A388 : That gives some room, yes. A388
50 Hacku : KLM 77W has even more seats (425) than their full pax 744 (415).[Edited 2012-01-25 07:16:55]
51 nantoine : Walked by the aircraft today -- it is indeed named "Times Square - New York". GE engines of course. Couldn't see the registration, as it is masked by
52 imiakhtar : Someone has been feeding you porkies. The RR T700 is the most powerful option.
53 Post contains images A388 : Can't wait to see it myself in real life one day A388
54 MauriceB : After a week, still no photos of the frame as a whole? I have seen a lot of tail photos lately, but still no good photos. Is it so hard to photograph
55 A388 : When it's behind a hangar or building with only airside access and not visible to the public, than it is hard to photograph yes. I'm also still waiti
56 Post contains images Newark727 : Gonna have to catch a ride in this one.
57 SXDFC : Does anyone know the registration of this bird? Kinda surprised that there's no pictures of this bird yet..[Edited 2012-01-31 08:35:23]
58 Post contains links Ychocky : Slightly more fuselage visible here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/a380spotter/6767248333/ Reg PH-AKA, currently wearing F-WWYP.
59 Post contains images MH017 : and.........this overview only shows 5 full-pax 744's: BFA BFB BFG BFL BFN Note: BFH was originally a Combi, but was changed to a fullpax version, ma
60 BreninTW : OK, meandering off topic a bit here: What airline is that one behind the China Eastern plane? The one with the two shades of blue on the tail?
61 PM : Garuda.
62 BreninTW : Thank you PM. Much appreciated.
63 HECA : When is it expected to arrive in AMS?
64 Post contains links Flanor : here she is! http://www.flickr.com/photos/bycac/6802188561/in/pool-airbus_a330
65 blink182 :
66 Independence76 : That bird is beautiful!
67 Captain.MD-11 : Planning one last trip on the MD11 this coming winter (OCT/NOV). Looking at flying into ATL and out of MIA to get on one both ways. Are KLM likely to
68 Ychocky : What a beauty! Nice find! And great shot by Mr. Alloing!
69 Post contains images virginblue4 : Very nice! Looking forward to seeing her in service!
70 avi8 : How many A333's does KLM have on order? When is the last one being delivered?
71 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : Nice!! Its about time we had a pic of it
72 Post contains links mauriceb : Here it is: http://www.flickr.com/photos/florent_peraudeau/6802954899/ Looks great!
73 mauriceb : Somehow i wasn't able to see the recent posts, so i posted a double link, think it looks great![Edited 2012-02-02 10:13:05]
74 Post contains images A388 : Hmmm, I prefer the photo provided in reply 64!!! Even so, that is one fantastic-looking A333!!! A388
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