cyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 166 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6279 times:
Sheesh. A not unexpected tit-for-tat with WS securing LGA slots I suppose, but 2 measly flights a day from western canada to NY?!? It's B.S, man. Enjoy (more) RJ flights, easterners.... Yippie-kai-yay!
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
cnz3 From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5933 times:
Can anyone confirm that these flights will be at Terminal 7? No FIS is required, but I don't think anywhere else at the airport will be any better for them than their old haunt at T7.
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4402 posts, RR: 38 Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5866 times:
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 2): The Toronto-New York market is now so fragmented:
Good for New York and Toronto! That means more options and competition.
That said, re JFK: no doubt AA and DL are feeding their hubs. Will there be demand for service from JFK to the YYZ hub? Pax can do that now through LGA-YYZ flights. What will JFK offer AC pax on either end that LGA doesn't?
corinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5798 times:
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 2): I wondered what took AC so long to jump back into YYZ-JFK. DL operates 3 daily and AA 4 daily on YYZ-JFK already.
Did AC ever fly JFK-YYZ? I don't recall that they ever have. I know they flew YVR/YYC-JFK, but those were switched over to EWR a few years ago.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5484 times:
Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 1): but 2 measly flights a day from western canada to NY?
Those markets aren't huge and quite seasonal. A lot of the nonstop EWR-YVR traffic is summer Alaska cruise traffic. Also have to consider that CX operates daily JFK-YVR and CO has a seasonal summer nonstop EWR-YVR. For EWR-YYC, the single daily nonstops on AC and WS are probably plenty for the year-round market.
Quoting corinthians (Reply 6): Did AC ever fly JFK-YYZ? I don't recall that they ever have.
Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): Quoting corinthians (Reply 6):
Did AC ever fly JFK-YYZ? I don't recall that they ever have.
Yes, in the 1960s and 1970s. In fact at one point, JFK was AC's only New York destination.
For years from the '50s through the '70s I'm sure AC was the largest foreign operator at JFK in terms of frequency. They used the BA terminal when it opened and were also the largest operator there (in frequency).. After JFK (then IDL) opened, all international services were forced to move from LGA in the early 1950s.
I'm sure AC would have preferred to stay at LGA but they had no choice. It took them over two decades before they obtained permission to move back to LGA (except longhaul flights to YVR/YYC which stayed at JFK due to the LGA perimeter rule; those flights moved from JFK to EWR a couple of years ago).
After AC was forced to move to IDL/JFK, AA had a competitive advantage. While AA's New York-Toronto nonstops also had to move to IDL, they also operated YYZ-BUF so most of their YYZ-New York flights were one-stops YYZ-BUF-LGA. AC had no way to match that. Many passengers found AA's one stops via BUF more convenient than AC' nonstops to IDL.
corinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5360 times:
Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 5): Good for New York and Toronto! That means more options and competition.
I fly this route a lot and you’d be surprised how expensive it is in spite of there being multiple carriers, multiple frequencies over a very short duration. It’s often cheapest (although still not cheap) flying US Air to YYZ via PHL or CLT. Did the PHL connection before and will NEVER do it again.
Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 5): That said, re JFK: no doubt AA and DL are feeding their hubs. Will there be demand for service from JFK to the YYZ hub? Pax can do that now through LGA-YYZ flights. What will JFK offer AC pax on either end that LGA doesn't?
JFK is more convenient for a lot of people, myself included. These days, I usually fly to YYZ from JFK and normally take DL. This flight is usually full, so there is a market. NY is a big city after all and LGA is too small to service everyone. Personally, I think LGA’s “convenience” factor is overrated.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8): I'm sure AC would have preferred to stay at LGA but they had no choice. It took them over two decades before they obtained permission to move back to LGA (except longhaul flights to YVR/YYC which stayed at JFK due to the LGA perimeter rule; those flights moved from JFK to EWR a couple of years ago).
JFK-YVR/YYC flights were fairly recent and only lasted about a year before being switched over. I remember AC flying YYC-EWR back in the 80’s up to the early 90’s. Not sure about YVR.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3854 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5133 times:
Quoting corinthians (Reply 9): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
I'm sure AC would have preferred to stay at LGA but they had no choice. It took them over two decades before they obtained permission to move back to LGA (except longhaul flights to YVR/YYC which stayed at JFK due to the LGA perimeter rule; those flights moved from JFK to EWR a couple of years ago).
JFK-YVR/YYC flights were fairly recent and only lasted about a year before being switched over. I remember AC flying YYC-EWR back in the 80’s up to the early 90’s. Not sure about YVR.
For a while in the 70s & 80s AC also flew YVR-YWG-JFK, DC-8s and/or DC-9s.
Flew EV on YUL-EWR-YUL with an E145 for my fam flight last October......Never again ! Company dished out nearly 1000 big ones for 2 hours worth of flying.
The E190 on YYC-EWR doesn't sound too appealing either cowboy !
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
corinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4688 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
The E190 on YYC-EWR doesn't sound too appealing either cowboy !
I take that flight at least once a year. The plane isn't all that bad, actually. Quite comfortable.
Quoting washingtonian (Reply 12): Glad to see them back at JFK. All the EWR fan boys made a huge deal when AC moved their daily YVR flight a few years ago and closed JFK...
They switched because CO had just joined Star and it made more sense for AC to consolidate at EWR rather than operate at three different airports. And apparently, they contracted JFK UAL staff to handle those flights and that cost quite a bit more.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1963 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4656 times:
Quoting corinthians (Reply 13): I take that flight at least once a year. The plane isn't all that bad, actually. Quite comfortable.
Sure, doesn't come close to being as bad as the E135 or 145's, but after sitting in an E Jet or RJ, you truly appreciate all the comfort and room a 738 or A320 has to offer, even if it happens to be on WG, with a bunch of drunksters going down to CUN
Thenoflyzone
[Edited 2012-01-25 20:17:12]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2450 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4618 times:
There are always people who live closer to that airport for example a good chunk of Long Island. Also there are people that just prefer an airport aka i always use JFK or the airtran stops there so its easier for me than LGA.
Lets see if the demand is large enough to support JFK too, time will tell. The market is pretty large between Toronto and NYC they are so close in miles that you see quite alot of business connections, traffic, and people flying down for the day. I have done tons of day trips from EWR and LGA to both Montreal and Toronto so if an airport was a little closer to where i needed to go i would use it. Its probably just a nice additional option for AC on a popular route and worth a shot to see if they can rake in some cash on a route that uses little plane time or fuel.
airontario From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 502 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3362 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 14):
Sure, doesn't come close to being as bad as the E135 or 145's, but after sitting in an E Jet or RJ, you truly appreciate all the comfort and room a 738 or A320 has to offer, even if it happens to be on WG, with a bunch of drunksters going down to CUN
Thenoflyzone
I'll take an E-175/90 any day over a A320. No chance of a middle seat, the seat feels wider, huge windows, etc. Whats not to like?
beeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3254 times:
Quoting RP TPA (Thread starter): Air Canada express will begin 3x daily YYZ-JFK in May. In addition, YYZ-LGA goes to hourly.
RJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 567 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3065 times:
Quoting airontario (Reply 16): I'll take an E-175/90 any day over a A320. No chance of a middle seat, the seat feels wider, huge windows, etc. Whats not to like?
Amen to that!
Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 17): Out of curiosity when did they end these flights cause I remember seeing an AC EMB175 parked up at T7 late in the night.
I don't have a specific date for you (although I'm sure someone else will!), but we have diverted into JFK occasionally. Mostly due to LGA or EWR WXX being down....
Last Flight(s): YHZ-EWR-FLL // MIA-YYZ-YOW-YHZ.....Next Flight(s):
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1963 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2892 times:
Quoting airontario (Reply 16): I'll take an E-175/90 any day over a A320. No chance of a middle seat, the seat feels wider, huge windows, etc. Whats not to like?
I hate the fact that there is no middle seat, because when you have a wife and kid, which is my case, you come to appreciate that middle seat. Also cabin is taller on the A319/320, which in my case (6 ft +), comes in handy.
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
cyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 166 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2801 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 19):
I hate the fact that there is no middle seat, because when you have a wife and kid, which is my case, you come to appreciate that middle seat. Also cabin is taller on the A319/320, which in my case (6 ft +), comes in handy.
You kiddin'? Sounds like the perfect opportunity to let the Mrs. deal with the kid. Try travelling with 4 kids, someday. (You workin' on that yet?) Also, I don't know about you but I typically don't spend the flight standing. Off topic, I know.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
threepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2744 times:
It's funny: people's perceptions of the smaller aircraft. Do many people actually realize that the economy seats are wider and further apart in AC's Embraers than in the Airbus narrowbodies? I guess they equate exterior dimensions with interior space. I have seen plenty of very tall people sit inside the Y cabins of either, none of whom were in any danger of bumping their heads against overhead bins, ceilings, curved fuselage walls etc.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15989 posts, RR: 59 Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2637 times:
Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 5): Quoting yyz717 (Reply 2):
The Toronto-New York market is now so fragmented:
Good for New York and Toronto! That means more options and competition.
I agree.....keeps prices low. Can't wait for WS to enter the market.
Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): Yes, in the 1960s and 1970s. In fact at one point, JFK was AC's only New York destination.
AA flew the Electra and 707 against the AC Vanguard on YYZ-JFK.
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10): For a while in the 70s & 80s AC also flew YVR-YWG-JFK, DC-8s and/or DC-9s.
I have an AC sked from the early 70's and it shows a DC-8-40/50 on YWG-JFK. On that note, I'm surprised CO never added YWG from EWR (even with a daily E145 as they did with YQM, YYT, YQB).
Quoting threepoint (Reply 21): Do many people actually realize that the economy seats are wider and further apart in AC's Embraers than in the Airbus narrowbodies?
Not to mention that boarding and de-boarding is quicker on smaller aircraft, and no middle sets on the Embraers.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
AirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2597 times:
Speaking of AC service to the NYC area, I want to say Air Georgian/Air Alliance (third tier Air Canada connector) flew YYZ - HPN in the early 2000s with B1900s.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2566 times:
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22): AA flew the Electra and 707 against the AC Vanguard on YYZ-JFK.
You are probably too young, but I remember the Vanguard well. Economy seats wider than present day AA MD80 First Class seats, and took only 10 minutes longer than a DC-8 to fly YYZ-YUL. Those RR Tynes had a very distinctive growl to them, and I fondly listen to You Tube videos on line.
On the down side, I also remember flying on the Vanguard ANU-BDA-YUL-YYZ ... and all day affair, in comparison to the 4 1/2 hours when a DC-8 flew ANU-YYZ nonstop.
But back to the YYZ-JFK route. When AC first got the DC-9s, YYZ-ORD, YYZ-JFK and YUL-JFK were among the first routes flown in competition with the jet flying Americans.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
25 connies4ever: As Ace McCool of Down East International would say of the Vanguard, the "Ultimate Airplane". I loved it, despite the pronounced vibration issue near
26 wumzi: I flew AC express this past weekend from YUL to YTC, and was shocked at the amount of leg room I had! I'm 6'0" tall and was able to comfortably cross
27 Viscount724: You probably mean YTZ. I also used them YTZ-YUL last October and was very impressed with the seating space. I think it's about the same as Porter. No
28 Viscount724: Only AC's which had quite spacious 5-abreast seating in Y class. BEA's Vanguards were 6-abreast in Y with rather narrow seats. It was my recollection
29 zbbylw: I am 6'5" and I prefer the E90 as the leg room on it is far superior to the 320 product. In fact I would take a E90 over anything on AC is I am sitti
30 longhauler: As someone once said to me, "Britons are smaller than North Americans anyway!" Looking at 7 abreast in a Trident, one has to hope so! But I looked wi
31 connies4ever: I think from program launch to EIS it was 2 years. - aircraft as originally designed had a significant stall problem requiring redesign of the stabil
32 Viscount724: Only the first 6 of BEA's 20 Vanguards had F class. I think the configurtion was 30 F and 89 Y. Those were the early low-gross weight Vanguard 951s.
33 thenoflyzone: 4, no way man. 2, for sure. Wife wants 3, and i told her count yourself lucky you're getting two ! you know what, more and more, i do stand in the is
34 longhauler: Close, it was 18F and 90Y for 108, except in the Caribbean where seats 5AB were removed and life rafts placed instead on a skid, for 88Y and 18F. The
35 longhauler: I keep hearing a lot of horror stories about the drive to BUF from the Toronto area. Weather is so unpredictable in the winter, and traffic can be a p
36 kiramakora: I look forward to seeing what WS does with the LGA slots. That would really liven things up.
37 connies4ever: The F cabin at the back was cool because a) seats were comfier and had I believe more legroom, and b) it was much quieter. One trip that sticks out w
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From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 166 posts, 
It could have been very eclectic indeed.
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, 
Try travelling with 4 kids, someday. (You workin' on that yet?) Also, I don't know about you but I typically don't spend the flight standing. Off topic, I know.
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