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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 109  
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16692 times:

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread 109.

In New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 108 (by NZ1 Dec 31 2011 in Civil Aviation) we discussed:

- NZ wins ATW airline of the year award
- 77W ZK-OKQ enters service
- Return of 320 ZK-OJK to the NZ fleet
- NZ keeps LAX-LHR and HKG-LHR
- speculations of new NZ routes

Other current threads related to New Zealand aviation:
Air NZ Keeps LHR Routes + New Routes Planned (by 777ER Jan 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Tahiti Seeks Virgin Australia Investment (by mercure1 Jan 23 2012 in Civil Aviation)
NZ Slowly Changing Livery? (by Semaex Jan 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Attention AKL Spotters (by MSN007 Jan 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Air NZ Wins ATW Airline Of The Year - 2012 (by NZ1 Jan 9 2012 in Civil Aviation)

216 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16644 times:

In the last thread, Sunrise Valley put forward the following excellent question:

"Does the New Zealand to India market have any potential superior yield associated with it or is it a repeat of the China- New Zealand market.

There is a concurrent thread going on BOM/DEL and why AC is not flying it directly .

The consensus is that the market is largely low yield and hardly worth putting finite resources ( like aircraft) into. Is India any different so far as New Zealand is concerned? Should they leave it to SQ or EK ?"

I would respectfully argue that India-New Zealand would be very different to both China-New Zealand and India-Canada.

AUCKLAND - CHINA FEATURES
a) There is significant outbound VFR travel by ethnically Chinese New Zealanders.
b) There is very little outbound leisure travel by non-Chinese New Zealanders: those leisure travellers who aspired to visit the Great Wall and Forbidden City did so in the first year or two of operation.
c) There is very limited business travel.
d) There is large-volume inbound package tourism by Chinese citizens. These passengers are almost all in large groups, in part because almost all are both illiterate in English and unable to speak English. (The same could be said of me in their languages too). These passengers generally have very little knowledge of New Zealand as a destination prior to booking their travel. It is unclear how much, if any, of this market will remain if the day ever arrives when the USA eases visa requirements for Chinese tourists.

TORONTO - INDIA FEATURES
a) There is a large proportion of the market which is on VFR travel in both directions.
b) There is limited leisure travel in either direction. Canada is not a cricket-playing nation, and as such Indians are far less familiar with its attractions than they are with New Zealand's. Seriously!
c) There is limited business travel.

MY TAKE ON NEW ZEALAND - INDIA FEATURES
a) There would be comparable limited business travel to the existing China routes.
b) There would be less VFR travel than for the China routes, because most ethnic Indians in New Zealand are from Fiji or, increasingly, the UK or Durban. Routing via Australia could increase VFR coverage
c) The potential for non-Indian New Zealanders to visit India for the Taj Mahal etc is probably comparable to the demand for the Great Wall of China and Forbidden City.
d) I would expect the profile of Indian inbound leisure travellers to be significantly different to their Chinese counterparts. Firstly, those who are in the demographic for long-haul leisure travel are as fluent and literate in English as we are. Secondly, they are all familiar with multiple NZ destinations through cricket, which has comparable cultural ubiquity to rugby in New Zealand. All of this leads me to believe that there would be far more individual travellers than package tourists, with all the extra scope for seating class upsells and hotel upgrades that go with that more independent and upwardly mobile demographic.

But I'm utterly at odds with CEO Rob Fyfe on this. I would be operating two Indian routes, but neither would be non-stop.

I'd be looking at:
Nadi-Auckland-Brisbane-Delhi
Auckland-Melbourne-Mumbai
.....with Fiji-originating/terminating travellers able to change at Auckland.

There would be limited scope for VFR travel even between Fiji and India. But Fiji in many ways is an untapped market for Indian leisure travellers, as its government is well aware, and there might even be scope for the Fiji government to underwrite Air NZ's operations, perhaps using Indian aid money. The Maldives are closer, but are Islamic and offer little to non-honeymooners, so Indians tend to be reluctant to holiday there. But Fiji could offer Indian visitors everything it offers everyone else, but in a 40% Indian country where the hotel rooms have multiple Indian TV channels, the cinemas have Indian films, the shops sell Indian clothes and goods, and would obviously adapt if wealthy Indians started to shop there, and there are Indian restaurants everywhere.

So I would suggest that any planning of an Air NZ route to India involve twin destinations plus Fiji connections, and that marketing in India emphasise two and even three-centre trips with Australia, New Zealand and Fiji as the destinations.

[Edited 2012-01-25 21:57:32]

[Edited 2012-01-25 21:59:53]

User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16587 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 1):
there might even be scope for the Fiji government to underwrite Air NZ's operations

CX has a codeshare on FJ's HKG-NAN flights, I am not sure if FJ has any codeshare on CX. But I would expect the Fiji government would go along those lines rather than dealing with NZ.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5012 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16454 times:

In thread 108 K'man repeated the canard that frequently appears on the N.Z. Aviation thread that the present 788 is no better than a 767-300ER.
This is false. The first twenty 788's are generally considered to be 8t over weight. It is planned that this over weight will be removed by the time Line #90 is reached.
However one of the first twenty at 8t. overweight can haul a 242- passenger load plus 5t of freight 6600nm. The load/range table for a 767-300ER suggests a load of ~15t for the same range , which is considerably less than max passenger load. Post LN90 the 788 will haul the above load ~7500nm. As an aside, Boeing said some months ago that they are running ahead of the schedule that they have set for weight reduction to achieve the planned OEW.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16438 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 3):
In thread 108 K'man repeated the canard that frequently appears on the N.Z. Aviation thread that the present 788 is no better than a 767-300ER.

I quoted Ben Sandilands' recent article on Plane Talking

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-it-just-too-dumb-to-know-or-care/

The key passages to which I was referring were:

"The 787 is struggling to better the fuel burn of a 767-300 with winglets on a comparison based on longer flight stages."

and

"Read Ostrower’s report and grind your teeth. Then let the meaning sink in. There is no 20% improvement over anything being delivered, so painfully slowly, from among the dozens of incomplete 787 carbon barrels and wingsets that clog the Everett final assembly area awaiting variously the undoing, redoing and completion, of these jets.

Yet this 20% better metric, sprinkled like pixie dust over so much of the PR guidance generated by Boeing, be in in fuel burn reductions, or structural weight savings, or anything else, has become inseparably joined in popular media reports to almost everything said about the Dreamliner."

This is so far from my area of expertise that I can't actually judge who to believe or not to believe, but I'm happy to draw attention to those claims.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5012 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 16369 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
This is so far from my area of expertise that I can't actually judge who to believe or not to believe, but I'm happy to draw attention to those claims.

I am using data generated by PIANO X for the 788 as it presently is at about 8t over weight and comparing it against the
load/range tables of the 767-300ER in the Boeing ACAP sheets. In my view it cuts through all the static that surrounds this issue.
PIANO X analysis is considered impeccable by those who use it's calculations as consultants and fleet planners. I am unaware of anything better. It takes away the hearsay and personal guessing factor .
I suggest that any discussion should be based on facts that can be verified.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1704 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 16367 times:

I don't think NZ can do what AC have done with there 763's and put beds at the front, this was talked about ages ago, it's got something to do with the air frame and weight , think NZ1 can confirm this? does this mean that part of the review also means that the 772's won't be getting the upgrade like its brother the 77w's ?


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 16348 times:

If NZ did want to start Indian flights, a AKL-MEL-BOM/DEL would be am interesting idea, jumping in before an Indian carrier. The market is there, given the Indian population base in MEL, although yields may well be a struggle for a while. That hasn't stopped NZ moving onto China routes, with the challenges those services tend to face.

Same could be said about trying a AKL-MEL-JNB route, creating abit of a ops base in MEL, although that route would need a 4 engined aircraft to gain the optimum flight route at this stage.

Just a couple of ideas, as it's hard to see what they may have in mind, other than an AKL-Sth America service.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5012 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 16279 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
Same could be said about trying a AKL-MEL-JNB route, creating abit of a ops base in MEL, although that route would need a 4 engined aircraft to gain the optimum flight route at this stage.

Would be interesting to see the outcome of a NZ application based on the NZL EDTO standard , to the Australian regulator, to fly a twin from an Australian city to JNB.   


User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 16221 times:

I'm intrigued by the India idea(s), although India is a tough market to make work, in many industries. A NZ non-stop or direct service (through MEL or BNE) would be attractive to the business travelers in both directions since the current best itineraries, particularly to DEL, tend to involve long layovers in SIN or HKG, or flying past India to DXB. The total travel time can easily be 24+ hours in each direction. Handy if you have business to conduct in SIN/HKG in either direction, but painful if you do not.

My fares to India have always been pretty expensive, reflective of demand, but it is interesting to observe that there's no SFO-BOM/DEL/BLR flights despite the obvious market synergies, and that AA is canceling ORD-DEL.

There's a lot of tech industry in India and every flight in and out I see a lot of people I know (or recognize) in the industry traveling there. It could also be an interesting connection point into LH group flights to get to Europe (OS, LX, etc).

New Zealanders can enter India without a visa now for tourism purposes which also makes it slightly more attractive.

But I think it would struggle as I recall from other postings that it would be very long haul sectors, and I get the impression that ground handling is not necessarily cheap in India - and the timings are often unfriendly.


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 291 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 16211 times:

Anyone have any information on a mystery Gulfstream that just arrived at AKL.
Aircraft is all white. Only marking is 152 on the tail, a pin-stripe down the side but no other visible markings.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 16200 times:

Regrading AKL-Australia-DEL/JNB/Asia, and one-stop South America ideas, did I hear an earlier comment from NZ management which says they are not going to start any new 2 sector flights?

User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5012 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 16179 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
I don't think NZ can do what AC have done with there 763's and put beds at the front, this was talked about ages ago, it's got something to do with the air frame and weight , think NZ1 can confirm this?

It required a floor reinforcement which adds weight. AC apparently could live with it probably because they had significantly fewer seats than NZ in some of their 767 configurations.


User currently offlinedlnz From New Zealand, joined Jul 2011, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 16153 times:

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 10):
Anyone have any information on a mystery Gulfstream that just arrived at AKL.

Its a US Navy C20G/GIV. Check out http://www.mrcaviation.blogspot.com/


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1881 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 16124 times:

Quoting cchan (Thread starter):
- Return of 320 ZK-OJK to the NZ fleet

When will it be back in New Zealand?


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1237 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 16124 times:

In the previous thread it was mentioned that ZK-OJK/PR-MBJ was expected to be back in the country sometime this week. Has it done so already? If not, when is it scheduled to do so? What route will it be taking?

[Edited 2012-01-26 12:42:12]


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 291 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 16052 times:

Quoting dlnz (Reply 13):
Its a US Navy C20G/GIV. Check out http://www.mrcaviation.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the info


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 16021 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 12):
t required a floor reinforcement which adds weight. AC apparently could live with it probably because they had significantly fewer seats than NZ in some of their 767 configurations.

AC currently operate both 24/187 and 24/166 configs with the "BP" seats. Personally I think they should have bitten the bullet when they 'refit' the 763 a few years ago and reinforced the floor for BP and fit PE. TBH I think it is still the option they should be looking at now, using the old 744 BP & PE seats to save money.

The problem IMO is more that NZ are in two minds about 763 usage, not really the extra weight gains of the seats. They want both high density shorthaul and longhaul intercontinental from the same aircraft with the same interiors for both - which is impossible. Realistically, had they multiple configurations for each type like most reasonable airlines they would not have this dilemma. I realise that they only now have 5 which makes it a little harder, but had they
kept NCH & NCO a little longer they could have run longhaul 15-18-173 on 4-5 aircraft, and longhaul-connector T-T/Pacific flights with 12/207 or whatever they want/need for that.

They should have treated the 763 like the 744s as 'insurance' instead of rashly disposing of them as soon as the 787s were ordered (as opposed to once their aircraft were actually manufactured like most airlines) to the point where I think they would be doing a lot better by sending both a competitive product to HNL/PER/KIX and by not using 777 & 744 aircraft trans tasman unnecessarily - Thus, opening their widebody usage up for what they are designed for and using the 777 as the growth aircraft as it should be.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 15991 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 8):
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
Same could be said about trying a AKL-MEL-JNB route, creating abit of a ops base in MEL, although that route would need a 4 engined aircraft to gain the optimum flight route at this stage.

Would be interesting to see the outcome of a NZ application based on the NZL EDTO standard , to the Australian regulator, to fly a twin from an Australian city to JNB.

You devil, you!      

Air NZ would have to be prepared to take it to cabinet level in both NZ & Australia to have any chance at all.

Gemuser

[Edited 2012-01-26 16:32:09]


DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1704 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 15917 times:

If this is the one coming back from TAM then ZK-OJK is due back into the NZ fleet in early Feb all white at this stage. being flown over by NZ crew.


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 15881 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
Same could be said about trying a AKL-MEL-JNB route, creating abit of a ops base in MEL, although that route would need a 4 engined aircraft to gain the optimum flight route at this stage.
Quoting gemuser (Reply 18):
Air NZ would have to be prepared to take it to cabinet level in both NZ & Australia to have any chance at all.

In terms of doing it with a twin, maybe.

But the Australian government's International Air Services Commission's draft decision on the QF/SA Indian Ocean monopoly has made it very clear that they view competition between Qantas and a NZ/SA codeshare as considerably more desirable than the status quo.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 15870 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 20):
But the Australian government's International Air Services Commission's draft decision on the QF/SA Indian Ocean monopoly has made it very clear that they view competition between Qantas and a NZ/SA codeshare as considerably more desirable than the status quo.

True, BUT the Minister does NOT have to keep the IASC decision if he doesn't like it.
And NZ chance of getting Australian approval for ETOPS>180 twin operation in the deep southern Indian Ocean is somewhat less than the chance of NZ joining the Commonwealth in the next 10 years.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1237 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 15835 times:

http://bit.ly/wjzWEC
An 18 year old has been arrested for pointing a laser at three aircraft on approach to Auckland Airport aswell as a police helicopter.
I hope that if convicted he gets the maximum 14 year jail term. It should set a precedent to deter such reckless behavior in the future.

[Edited 2012-01-26 21:05:21]


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 15830 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 21):
True, BUT the Minister does NOT have to keep the IASC decision if he doesn't like it.
And NZ chance of getting Australian approval for ETOPS>180 twin operation in the deep southern Indian Ocean is somewhat less than the chance of NZ joining the Commonwealth in the next 10 years.

I'm old-fashioned - I don't share Rob Fyfe's aversion to 1-stop and 2-stop services.

I'd be happy for Air NZ to have bases at PER, MEL and BNE. And I'd still fly Air NZ to South Africa even if the flights refuelled at Mauritius. In fact, I'd be more likely to choose to fly Air NZ than Qantas if the routing allowed me to combine South Africa with a few days relaxation on Mauritius! And Air Mauritius might be happy to codeshare on an NZ flight.


User currently offlineKiwinlondon From New Zealand, joined Dec 2011, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15507 times:

Finally some common sense has prevailed at NZ and they are retaining LHR!!

I can only assume that Fyfe has deliberately allowed some comments re LHR to be leaked in order to either drive cutbacks elsewhere or that he simply does not have a clue and was trying to "prepare" staff for the withdrawl from LHR.

I like Koruman's suggestion re a hub in HKG. As has been suggested many times why not have a feed either on NZ from Australian East Coast cities or from Virgin Australia to feed HKG-LHR?

If we arm chair CEO's can see the light, what is wrong with NZ management?

Kiwinlondon


25 cchan : They know performance data and rights limitations that we do not.
26 sunrisevalley : I think this stuff is pretty well known. Also I believe traffic data in general terms is also available. What is probably not available is traffic by
27 alangirvan : Yes, a hub would be a good idea, but perhaps now that Virgin Australia has its partnerships with Etihad and Singapore Airlines, they have moved on. T
28 koruman : I book all my NZ travel via the local Air NZ travelcentre - they're still called that in Australia. I thought the Etihad codeshare would work well in
29 xiaotung : You can't buy these tickets anyway as the EY codeshare is only available for pax originating from New Zealand.
30 koruman : It's strange, isn't it, that in the days of Ansett just under 40% of Airpoints members were in Australia, yet management has ever since been frighten
31 Zkpilot : QF have been doing AKL-LAX since at least 1990.
32 nascarnut : A rare visitor is heading into AKL on Jan 30th. RSD008, an Il96 operating BWN-AKL. ETA AKL 1440
33 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Air NZ domestic picks up'' Christmas and holiday traffic picked up Air New Zealand in December last year, with the carrier flying 0.3 percent more l
34 Post contains links nascarnut : Registration is RA-96019, an Ilyushin Il-96-300 owned by the Russian State Transport Compny. It is due to head out to SYD at 1000 today. See link bel
35 Post contains links NZdsgnr : well that would make a few happy Rockstar CEO tipped to quit http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...337676/Rockstar-CEO-tipped-to-quit
36 nascarnut : Current planned arrival of OJK back into NZ. Routing is GRU/SCL/IPC/PPT/AKL NZ 6397 Depart GRU 0800/03 Arrive SCL 1410/03 Depart SCL 1255/04 Arrive I
37 cchan : I'd only believe it when I see him gone.
38 joelyboy911 : Just heard on Sky News that Rob Fyfe has announced his resignation as CEO - the tips were correct. As an aside, the newsreader has suggested that he m
39 Post contains links NZ1 : Link here re Rob Fyfes resignation. http://theflyingsocialnetwork.com/archives/992 NZ1
40 KiwiRob : So who gets the hot seat now that Fyfe is gone, koruman are thinking about applying, cv up to date. I think they should try get Norris back.
41 cchan : I am sure NZ would at least double her route network if he gets the job.
42 Post contains links 777ER : Koruman are you thinking? In other news: A british ATC training company is setting up a training school in Wellington in June http://www.stuff.co.nz/d
43 KiwiRob : They we could all laugh at him when the govt has to bail them out.
44 xiaotung : Talking about Airways NZ, could Ed Sims return to NZ as CEO?
45 cchan : There is at least one very good thing if he gets the position: we can be sure that our comments posted here will be heard.
46 koruman : Absolutely, I'm putting sunrisevalley in charge of fleet acquisitions and route planning, cchan in charge of African expansion, Xiaotung in charge of
47 cchan : Probably not much NZ can do there. A codeshare with ET via HKG and PEK maybe the way to go if NZ wants to explore this market. Other than JNB which c
48 aerorobnz : I bags GGM International Airline...
49 Post contains links A330NZ : I just saw that on the IVC wikipedia page, it states that there will be a direct link between DUD and IVC by Eagle Air starting in July. It states thi
50 Post contains images mariner : It's jolly kind of you, but all I would really want would be to run the island services. The whole thing, of course, Polynesia, Melanesia - and Micro
51 Post contains links zkojq : For those interested: ZK-SUJ has finished its freighter conversion and is now operating for Southern Air (but has yet to be repainted). http://www.air
52 xiaotung : I doubt he will ever return to the airline business after a AU$16.2 million pay package in his last year at CBA.
53 xiaotung : I am flattered. I would pull PEK altogether and open BNE-PVG in additional to AKL-PVG, making it the sole operator on both routes and potentially ext
54 koruman : Sorry, but I insist. It's people like you who profess to be former lefties who make such a good job of taking on the workforce and squeezing them unt
55 ZKOJH : oh what a shock but it was only a matter of time - so this could mean one-stop routes back on the table then to Europe. I say bring 'Koruman' in as CE
56 joelyboy911 : I think someone in Dunedin has been editing the airport pages - it also says there are PMR-DUD & return flights on Mount Cook. Something I can fi
57 mariner : "A man who is not a communist at the age of twenty is a fool. Any man who is still communist at the age of thirty is an even bigger one." – George B
58 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Hah - more to come (it's late here). First - AKL-ORD-BRU. Second, YOW-IAH/LAS-AKL (just for me &nbsp . Third, stop putting PE pax in the cheapest
59 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Often thrown at me by my grandfather. Along with: "If you don't work, you don't eat. If you don't eat, you don't sh*t. If you don't sh*t, you die." W
60 Kaiarahi : Yes!! But let's think about PPT-ORD - much better connections with Europe (14 *A cities direct).
61 koruman : I very much doubt it. I think this is corporate New Zealand's "Robert Maxwell moment". The media hasn't even worked out that Fyfe has gutted the core
62 Post contains images gasman : I'm taking marketing, and the hard product. Whoever was responsible for Y on the 77W and the release version Y+ on the same aircraft, is going to be
63 koruman : Good start. I'm issuing a clear ultimatum to my hard-product team, as follows: 1. 10-abreast on the 777 has six months to go away. The same six month
64 Bluebird191 : Just a curious question here guys - I'm planning on visiting New Zealand again at the end of the year for new years eve, and flying BNE-AKL on Dec 28
65 aerorobnz : I think you will find that one of those people has just resigned and the other already left......
66 sunrisevalley : This is quite a surprise to wake up to.Thank you Koruman for your confidence. I am in Sonning Common Oxon. "wintering" for a period and overhead ther
67 ZKSUJ : If they convert the 77W to 3-3-3 and increase pitch to 34", then the seating would be roughly 298. Big drop in numbers for a 744 replacement. Since we
68 Kaiarahi : But first, they should be forced to sit in them (in the original configuration) for 12 hours every night for 6 months (the time it took for NZ to ack
69 sunrisevalley : Air Transat does YVR-MAN 2x weekly. That is about 600 seats each way. Wouldn't they end up with most of the business based on their lowish fare's?
70 NZ107 : 2x weekly is pretty weak if you're a business person. Even if it's 600 seats, you still require the frequency. What about 3x ex HKG and 4x ex YVR or
71 Kaiarahi : I don't know the numbers, but a significant part of the Sikh/Indo community in the lower mainland is upwardly mobile. I also think it would attract t
72 kiwiandrew : Why go to the expense of a new type just to flood more capacity into markets where NZ are apparently already struggling to break even. On the other h
73 Post contains images sunrisevalley : Well said It seems to me there is a difficulty in configuring an airplane and a class of service to suit the NZ'lander boarding in AKL and the probab
74 ZKSUJ : I think the 747-8i and 77W would work nicely together. I do understand what you mean though but I'm sure NZ could make a small fleet of 748i work for
75 Post contains links DavidByrne : Source : http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...0120131-R2MJC?opendocument&src=rss Irrespective of all the other criticism flying around concerni
76 joelyboy911 : Exactly. And having flown on the 10-abreast 77W - I want to do my best to assure everyone that they have hit a fairly good balance. It may not be SQ
77 PA515 : A 77E could be made available by just rescheduling AKL-PVG to a morning departure and afternoon arrival to connect with an AKL-EZE-GRU / GRU-EZE-AKL
78 koruman : I spoke about this with a senior Virgin manager several months ago, when the Tasman alliance was launched. NZ was removing Business Class from the 32
79 gasman : Indeed. I lament the loss of J on trans-Tasman flights, and I still seek out the 763 for exactly that reason. To me, removing Business class might -
80 777ER : IMHO you would have a more better chance with a WLG/CHC-SYD/BNE-HKG instead of serving a lew yielding tourist destination and enable the flight to co
81 sunrisevalley : What market does OOL serve other than Koruman? Seriously, is it the south Brisbane market ? What is the population base and how wealthy is it?
82 cchan : IMHO for it to be profitable, the airline need enough point-to-point traffic, that is, they need to sell enough tickets to HKG rather than relying on
83 Zkpilot : I still think NZ should look at an economy basic/minus (which is 3-4-3 with the current lack of space). This could be in the very back section of the
84 aerorobnz : Once the QF agreement through SYD wraps up soon I'm sure this will happen.
85 sunrisevalley : What do you think the outcome would be of a NZ application to CASA for EDTO 240 or thereabouts ,approval to fly PER-JNB ? See posting 8 in this threa
86 Post contains links 777ER : JQ259 CHC-AKL on Tuesday lost a 15cm x 15cm oil service panel in-flight. http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/new-ze...el-falls-off-during-Jetstar-flight Ful
87 koruman : I don't seriously advocate OOL as an outbound market, other than that a few higher yielding fares might be picked up if the airline actively marketed
88 joelyboy911 : When I suggested it - I was thinking too of the inbound market to OOL. I don't know how many British tourists are headed there - but Asian plus Europ
89 Kaiarahi : It took 60+ years to get clearance for NZL apples to be sold in Oz.
90 Post contains links and images gemuser : See reply 18, The diversion to stay EDTO 180 is actually fairly minor on PER-JNB, about 6-8%, 340 nm at most, see: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=akl-j
91 A330NZ : NZ's longhaul product is full service, unlike D7 and JQ. They cater for the low cost market. NZ is the only full service carrier serving OOL at the m
92 cchan : Have been on NZ80/81 several times, and the plane seemed to be reasonably full even without the LHR passengers. I guess HKG itself is profitable for
93 aerorobnz : Yes. it is an important cargo/passenger link with the rest of the world. It also has a large number of business customers who like frequency. The mom
94 gemuser : NOT a done deal. Yes IASC has says not again, BUT there are various political factors that COULD get involved. And the whole state of Tasmania and a
95 aotearoa : I'm interested in your perception that a regulator (but especially CASA) would be against one of the world's most experinced EDTO operators applying
96 sunrisevalley : They have to be if NZ is offering service to Australian citizens PER-JNB-PER. Just as South Africa would have to approve the operation. I wonder how
97 gemuser : IMHO there are several factors here: 1) A CASA spokesman has said that CASA doubted that >180 ETDO would ever be approved by CASA (quoted in the A
98 Post contains images Zkpilot : This is why I think PER-JNB is the option for NZ with its 77Es and for SA to fly to MEL with its A340s. PER-JNB has a fairly minimal dogleg to get ar
99 macilree : Air New Zealand has just announced that it will be resuming operations AKL-DPS twice a week with B767 aircraft.
100 NZ107 : Wow, really didn't see that one coming. Though there has been no connection to DPS since GA pulled out years ago, I thought they were more likely to
101 ZKOKA : Bali is Air New Zealand’s newest international route Kiwis will now be able to fly non-stop to the popular holiday destination of Bali with the laun
102 kiwiandrew : Didn't see that coming! I hope K'man doesn't go into cardiac arrest when he sees that they are making it 'seats to suit'. I guess it is taking advant
103 cchan : Not as exciting as elsewhere in Asia or South America, and it is only seasonal. Where does the 763 capacity come from?
104 NZ6 : 1 down 1 to go
105 kiwiandrew : You said it yourself, it is seasonal. Isn't there usually reduced frequency for 767 capacity on Tasman routes during the winter ?
106 macilree : YE June 2011 the NZ-Indonesia O+D market was 25,631, an increase of 10.5% over the previous year. It is interesting to compare this with the growth i
107 777ER : Wasn't expecting Bali! Yes as a codeshare route with VA or GA but certainly not with NZ. Certainly wouldn't mind visiting Bali........might see what f
108 xiaotung : NZ-DJ codeshare can't cover other international routes than Tasman at the moment I believe?
109 aerorobnz : it's seats to suit, as you'd expect for such a low yielding route ***shakes head**...I don't know what to say... I hope by the fact that is announced
110 Post contains images mariner : Very good. Always sensible to fly to places people want to go. mariner
111 aerorobnz : Certainly. But what destinations also have similar/larger numbers on the list, that are currently untapped directly. It would give some idea as to ro
112 mariner : I dunno. I've always been astonished that Air NZ doesn't fly to Bali, but I was somewhat shouted down here. Are there many resort destinations on the
113 koruman : Under Rob Fyfe's stewardship Air New Zealand has made some erratic and irrational network and fleet decisions. But this one takes the cake. I am seri
114 aerorobnz : Agree completely K'man. the CEO doesn't even have the confidence in the future of his airline to hold off announcing his personal decision to move on
115 macilree : I have in front of me my spreadsheet that I use ranking countries in YE June 2011 based on O+D passenger traffic (the YE Dec 2011 data has only just
116 macilree : And here are the YE December O+D data for the Indonesia market: Indonesia resident arrivals 2007 7,758 2008 7,569 2009 9,506 2010 9,787 2011 11,450 Ne
117 Post contains links mariner : As a long time student of human psychology - I make my living from it - that has me scratching my head. As to numbers: http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl
118 byronicle6 : I completely agree. I was spot on with my prediction of DPS with S2S using 763 The number of NZ tourists to Bali is only going to grow as the stats s
119 aerorobnz : I certainly don't doubt the value of adding DPS to the NZ family - but not in the longhaul higher yielding configuration that they will send it as. It
120 aotearoa : The comments here from some of the more regular contributors are really quite astounding. This announcement is likely to be the first of a few announc
121 gasman : Making it "seats to suit" is entirely consistent with the Bali tourist demographic. Whether or not it's justified (I'm sure it isn't, entirely), the
122 mariner : I'm not part of that market, nor any of my chums. When we go on hols we tend to travel well. As in the other thread, Air NZ should just give away tha
123 nz2 : Good point They used to fly there direct but obviously it did not work, maybe this time. I have been to Bali several times including Lombok, and stay
124 mariner : I think a couple of contributors have done much more than that. My point is a very simple one that Bali will appeal to that section of the market - c
125 Post contains links ZKOJH : Jetstar axes Brisbane to Christchurch Qantas’ low-cost subsidiary has announced it will axe its three times weekly service between Brisbane and Chri
126 sunrisevalley : I think it is wrong for Fyfe to have an almost one-year departure time. It would be more appropriate in my view for him to go by April 30th at the lat
127 nascarnut : AKL spotters keep and eye out for Virgin Australia 77W due to arrive in AKL Sunday 5th Feb. Operating as VA9078 SYD-AKL. eta AKL 1410. Coming across f
128 kiwiandrew : Thanks for that ... I might pop out and have a look. Do they always come to AKL for their checks or is this new?
129 zkncj : I think it might be the first time one has required heavy checks
130 alangirvan : So, does this mean that this sector has experienced a downturn, as the result of natural disasters, or is it just that Jetstar is the least preferred
131 zkncj : Are any of QF Links 717s ETOPS? 110seaters could be good for this market.
132 alangirvan : Borghetti inherited an airline where the SYD-LAX were late evening departures, with early morning arrivals back into SYD - an expensive 777 standing
133 777ER : Rob Fyfe has done an excellent job in terms of staff being loyal - just need to see the picture of a cabin crew member kissing him before he announce
134 nascarnut : Air NZ has secured the contract to carry out all Heavy Checks for Virgins 77W in AKL while handling the 737's in CHC. CHC has had upwards of 5 737's
135 kiwiandrew : Thanks for the info... I guess it makes sense. I wonder whether the 737's will still be maintained in CHC after NZ retires all of their own -300s.
136 zkncj : Virgin has around 60 738s & they are still growing the fleet. So there's not really a reason for NZ to drop there 737 support.
137 nz2 : What you need to understand is that Australia has had fireblight for a long long time, this has just been a trade barrier. Similar to the longhorn be
138 mariner : Post #123: mariner
139 nz2 : Fair enough....
140 Kaiarahi : There's a reason other CEOs don't do things like this (or at least to the extent Fyfe does) - it's because they're busy being CEOs, not playing on so
141 aerorobnz : I still have trouble believing that NZ did nothing at all after that letter (but it is true!). It is ridiculous that an aircraft flaw like that was n
142 nascarnut : JetConnect 737-400 ZK-JTQ appears to have found a new home. Aircraft is currently in Airworks hanger in AKL being repainted in Alliance Airlines colou
143 koruman : Yes, Air NZ cabin crews have fairly frequently talked about Fyfe getting kisses from staff members. Popularity doesn't always equate to being a good
144 xiaotung : You guys may be glad to know that head of loyalty Simon Pomeroy has resigned as well. Apparently Westpac has offered him a job. I have to say all chan
145 Post contains links mariner : I'm amused by the difference between some of the attitudes to Mr. Fyfe being expressed here and some of the attitudes being expressed elsewhere: http:
146 koruman : Quite frankly, as heavy users of the airline - and others - many of us who post on this board know substantially more about the company and its manag
147 mariner : And - as frankly - I am also amused by the arrogance of some of the statements made here. I shrug. I am still amused by the difference between what i
148 nz2 : Hmmm, that explains a lot, you prefer the media over the people who work inside the company? Life is not fiction, it is reality. But hey, if it's in
149 Post contains links ZKOJH : Here we go ago - more snow! Need to keep an eye on the ANZ website and Facebook Page for updates London Heathrow Weather Disruption - Sunday 5th Febru
150 mariner : I certainly prefer some of the media views of Mr. Fyfe to some of the views presented here - and I don't think everyone who posts here works for Air
151 koruman : I'm staggered. Several of us are top-tier frequent flyers with the airline, who are recognised by individual staff members on most of the flights we
152 mariner : If anyone at the airline is giving you confidential information then they should be sacked, no matter how many seats you buy. I said I prefer them. I
153 kiwiandrew : I have to ask myself who in their right minds would want to run an airline. Particular an airline whose main demographic has champagne tastes and a be
154 koruman : It's hardly classified secrets for a crew member to say "it's lovely having so many passengers on board - on my flight to XXX last week there were on
155 mariner : That's funny - no one can make a sound business judgement on the financial state of the airline based on trivia like that. At a guess, the decision n
156 koruman : Well obviously, no-one is arguing with that. There used to be five weekly AKL-PPT flights and three weekly LAX-PPT flights, and the layovers were bet
157 KiwiRob : K'man you can bitch as much as you like about Fyfe but the proof of his competency lies in the simple fact that NZ is still here, and profitable.
158 koruman : That's the level of performance you expect of a CEO, is it? I expect FAR higher standards - I wouldn't congratulate my kids if their school performan
159 aerorobnz : Rumour around work at the moment is that any South American route will be served by the 744 rather than any 777s...
160 koruman : Which again is simply desperate planning! These 744s are large aircraft, too large to open a new route with. The only way they can be filled will be
161 sunrisevalley : If this is so then it has to be a 1-stop service if to GRU because the payload westbound non-stop is probably less than max passenger load.
162 aerorobnz : precisely. nobody knows anything for sure. like I said it's speculation.
163 ZKOJH : but it has to be direct remember as the one-stop route rule is out of the window. where can you fly the 744 to now, and get good returns on profit.? t
164 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Which I do. I have been flying with NZ since 1958 - my first flight was on the Coral Route I moved with a then very young family to Canada in 1976, a
165 PA515 : GRU-AKL would require a tech stop. However, AKL-GRU or AKL-GIG nonstop could be done with the 744. YVR-AKL 744 is 14 hrs 00 min. AKL-GIG 744 would be
166 aerorobnz : A purely for fuel techstop without replacing crew would still put it in that category...
167 Post contains links joelyboy911 : http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/841...of-babys-toe-chopped-off-on-flight A baby had the tip of its toe sliced off when its parents tried to stow away
168 sunrisevalley : The on duty time would be 18 to 20-hours. Don't know what NZ's contract is with its flight and cabin crew but it seems to me they would need 5 or 6 f
169 xiaotung : That's really strange. Why wouldn't they take your AC miles to fill the seats when they offer Oneup upgrades to anyone? Might have been an IT issue.
170 aerorobnz : Yeah, makes you wonder about whether Brazil is the market (it should be, but whether it is) interestingly at 6504nm AKL-GRU is almost identical to SY
171 xiaotung : Or simply ignore him. I used to support all Rob Fyfe's decisions and was a big fan of his management style but it all changed in the last couple of ye
172 DavidByrne : GRU-RGL-AKL anybody? I well remember a couple of trips EZE-RGL-AKL in the old AR 742s. Though RGL wasn't technically a techical stop (if you know wha
173 Post contains links koruman : I'm sorry about this - I actually view what I write as constructive criticism by one of their more loyal customers. I will tone it down for a while. I
174 nz2 : I wonder if NZ ever thought about using the centre 4 seat section as cuddle class. Even if they used beefier arm rests on the aisle to keep feet insi
175 alangirvan : I think Aerolineas are supposed to be joining SkyTeam.
176 kiwiandrew : I believe that in theory they are supposed to be in Skyteam by the end of this year.
177 alangirvan : If Aerolineas does make it into SkyTeam in time for you, you could have a nice SkyTeam RTW fare - fly Aerolineas from NZ to UK/Europe, and fly home in
178 IndianicWorld : Current ETOPS Rules would likely make a AKL-Sth America route on a twin less than optimal. I'd love to see a Brazilian service begin though.
179 sunrisevalley : The NZL. ETOPs rules are clearly defined and not at all inhibiting . NZ's 77E's are presently eligible for 240-min.
180 IndianicWorld : Is that enough though for the optimum route track to be taken?
181 ZKEOJ : Welcome to my respected users list! Thanks for that! Hearing exactly the same sermon over and over again does not add much to "debate". Just my opini
182 gemuser : It is for AKL-LIM, AKL-SCL/EZE/GRU would ALL require diversions. EDTO 330 would br required for no diversions, which NZ is not yet qualified for, I b
183 Kaiarahi : Nope. You can't request a *A upgrade online. As best I can tell, it's either ineptitude or it's set up to thwart NZ's *A obligations. The way it "wor
184 Post contains links ZKOJH : so let's get this thread back on top then, Some good news for NZ again, Air NZ top JQ for domestic operations Customer satisfaction on Jetstar’s dom
185 agent99nzboi : There is a graph showing the statistics over a 12 month period, but I can't find it. It seemed there was a dip in satisfaction for Air NZ during holid
186 Post contains links ZKOJH : seems a good move, Auckland Airport opens campervan park Tourists planning on seeing New Zealand from the comfort of a motorhome now have the option t
187 sunrisevalley : I have taken a look at a 744-400 flight plan for GRU-AKL that crossed the coast at PUQ which is very close to RGL. The flight time was 14hr 25 and th
188 aerorobnz : All NZ 744s have tail fuel capabilities. They use them regularly...
189 DavidByrne : I suspect that the main reason AR used RGL was that it is Argentine territory, whereas PUQ is Chilean. In those days, USH was only good for 737s, but
190 Zkpilot : Good to see from the start they have the place secured (CCTV, fenced, patrols etc), there are some bad eggs who would see fresh tourists as an easy o
191 cchan : A question to those who have good memory: When was the Airpoints programme launched and what did the 1st generation membership card look like? Thanks.
192 Post contains links xiaotung : I thnk it was 1994. This card below is the oldest I can find. http://www.budget.co.th/images/Partners/airnz.jpg
193 cchan : Thanks. I think I've seen an older card design without the Star Alliance logo.
194 Post contains links 777ER : Drunk and abusive flyer sorry - http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6399079/Drunk-and-abusive-flyer-sorry New toys for RNZAF - http://www.stuff.co.nz/nati
195 aotearoa : I hate seeing the NZ thread on page two. It's damn annoying having to go to page two! NZ started utilizing RNP AR at Auckland over the last few days.
196 zkojq : Do we know which 737s these are? One would assume that they are the ones that will be staying in the fleet the longest. In other news, ZK-NBT made it
197 sunrisevalley : Does this include trans Tasman flights ? Is it likely that ( or is there a good reason to ) equip 767's and 777's for RNP. Does RNP allow for closer
198 Post contains links 777ER : Auckland Airport is flying high - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6403...53/Auckland-Airport-is-flying-high Highlights of the story: - Re-designed Int
199 byronicle6 : I Think the last two sentences just confirm for us that a new route to SA is coming very soon! Moutter is engaged by the government's ambition to crea
200 Kiwinlondon : Why not have aircraft based in LAX for servicing the LAX - LHR leg of NZ1/2 with one type of configuration and use a different aircraft between AKL-L
201 PA515 : Two aircraft would be required for LAX-LHR-LAX instead of one. The Northern Summer 2012 schedule has LAX-LHR 1445/1110, LHR-LAX 1615/1945. Changing t
202 sunrisevalley : This does not solve the problem of providing the LHR originating passenger the same level of service through to AKL. I believe that to accommodate th
203 Kaiarahi : Hey - I thought K'man put me in charge of N. American ops! It would also complicate (and perhaps result in withdrawal) of the CBP/Customs arrangement
204 sunrisevalley : O oops... then I would recommend this to you ........... Good point ... I wonder if they would agree to a change of aircraft. In any event I believe a
205 aerorobnz : And the Airport wide power cuts they had a number of times yesterday morning resulting in airbridges that were failing, baggage stuck in the sortatio
206 Post contains links gytr31 : Seems there is some drama surrounding NZ90 this morning, a flu outbreak on board and passengers being treated www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubl...6
207 Mr AirNZ : The RNP fleet are NGD, NGE, NGG, NGH, NGI and NGJ. They will not necessarily be around the longest (e.g. I believe NGE is departing mid year at this
208 nz2 : Hi guys Anyone able to advise how Aero Argentina has been performing of late schedule-wise? We are about to make a group booking to BA for September,
209 koruman : The thing is, many of the passengers on LAX/SFO-AKL are North American-originating too. I would consider a possible solution of splitting 77W and 77E
210 kiwiandrew : Assuming of course that people in the back end will actually put their money where their mouths are and fork out more for 9 abreast over 10 abreast.
211 Post contains links mariner : The only vaguely comparable example I know of was American Airlines MRTC - More Room Throughout Coach. The airline took out two rows to increase the
212 koruman : Would it? Air NZ already has the seats which are being removed from the retiring 744s, and also would have the seats removed from the 77E aircraft wh
213 Post contains images ZK-NBT : Sad! Thanks for over 21 years service!!! Anyone able to provide hours and cycles for NBT? Terrible! lol. They have their moments but really are the w
214 agent99nzboi : You know, this is quite a viable idea, although it is essentially "Seat-to-suit" long haul. On an earlier post you mentiond 10 abreast on the 77E, as
215 aerorobnz : I have flown both AR/LA as a passenger a number of times on my trips to South America (during which I know I have been lucky to have consistently on
216 Post contains links 777ER : New Zealand Aviation Thread #110 (by 777ER Feb 13 2012 in Civil Aviation)
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