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Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?  
User currently offlinerichiemo From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 218 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Before anyone yells, I did do a search, just couldn't nail this topic. Wikipedia seems to suggest that all pre-merger UAL 757s will be fitted with winglets post-merger. Does anyone know. I thought I had read in several places that those aircraft would be used in means that really wouldn't make the winglets worthwhile. Does anyone know

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

They will not all be.

NS


User currently offlineatcsundevil From Germany, joined Mar 2010, 1199 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

All 763ERs will be and some PMUA 752s will get some (last I heard). PMUAs 752s are quite a bit older than PMCO (therefore, less ROI) and they can't make TATL runs like PMCO birds can, which is really where the winglets make a difference on range and fuel consumption. The 763ERs aren't exactly young, but they'll be flying around long enough and obviously flying long distances (TATL, Hawaii, etc.) to give a good enough ROI to make equipping them worth it. PMUA only equipped the p.s. 752s because they run strictly transcons; I imagine any further PMUA aircraft to be wingleted will be chosen because they have enough time left in service and will be tasked with primarily running transcon and/or Hawaii.


1954 1974 1990 2014 -- Los geht's!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

The PMUA PS 757s and ETOPs 757s will get winglets, I do not believe any other PMUA 757s will get them. For starters FedEx, whom might want to acquire some, does not want any 757s with winglets. Second I don't think the non PS/non ETOPs PMUA 757s will be around much longer making negating any further investment.

BTW..

Before anyone asks, the PMUA ETOPs 757s will not go Trans-Atlantic. They are for Hawaii routes.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 2):
All 763ERs will be and some PMUA 752s will get some (last I heard).

The 14 domestic 763ERs will receive winglets (they are circa 1998-2001.) The 12 752 P.S. and 16 752 ETOPS if they don't already have winglets will be getting them...those are the only aircraft I have heard that will be retrofitted.

It's possible that the 21 3-class 763ERs will get them as well but I haven't heard.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Second I don't think the non PS/non ETOPs PMUA 757s will be around much longer making negating any further investment.

They will probably be around another few years until they are replaced by 739ERs. The other reason for not retrofitting them is that they become harder to sell on the cargo market.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCO787EWR From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Why doesn't FedEx/cargo market like the winglets?

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

Quoting CO787EWR (Reply 6):

Why doesn't FedEx/cargo market like the winglets?

Something to do with the amount of gate space and added weight...its been discussed a few times on here.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 7):

I think aircraft age also has something to do with it. Fuel savings wouldn't come close to the cost of adding the winglets.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 8):
I think aircraft age also has something to do with it.

Not an age issue....Fed Ex has 752 aircraft that are older than anything UA has in the fleet.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 8):
Fuel savings wouldn't come close to the cost of adding the winglets.

Fuel savings have nothing to do with why the cargo carriers don't want winglets.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Not an age issue....Fed Ex has 752 aircraft that are older than anything UA has in the fleet.

My point exactly.

Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Fuel savings have nothing to do with why the cargo carriers don't want winglets.

Winglets also give the possibility of allowing more payload, but for a package carrier, I don't see the benefit.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently onlineB757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

The winglet STC for the 757 is only approved for pax aircraft use.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8491 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Wingets would decrease cargo capacity with light fuel loads (MZFW?) and also, FX probably flies its 757 much less than the 12 hour days seen in pax airlines. Fuel burn matters most in long range, high utilization assignments (such as pax longhaul or certain Pacific FX routes). For twice daily short hops inside the USA, fuel burn becomes less and less critical.

User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1802 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

The PMUA PS 757s and ETOPs 757s will get winglets, I do not believe any other PMUA 757s will get them. For starters FedEx, whom might want to acquire some, does not want any 757s with winglets. Second I don't think the non PS/non ETOPs PMUA 757s will be around much longer making negating any further investment.
Quoting United1 (Reply 5):
They will probably be around another few years until they are replaced by 739ERs. The other reason for not retrofitting them is that they become harder to sell on the cargo market.

As a right now, only 5 are leaving. Not that many considering there are 93 of them in the fleet still.

[Edited 2012-01-26 14:12:34]


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1785 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
As a right now, only 5 are leaving. Not that many considering there are 93 of them in the fleet still.

It's obviously a progression, four left last year, five leave this year then next year will and the years after that they will increase the rate.

[Edited 2012-01-26 14:18:40]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
It's obviously a progression, four left last year, five leave this year then next year will and the years after that they will increase the rate.

Perhaps not. The 739s are replacing the 735s next year, not just the 757s.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

I wouldn't say they're replacing them at all. There happen to be 739s coming in and 735s leaving. Unrelated to each other.

NS


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):

Perhaps not. The 739s are replacing the 735s next year, not just the 757s.

UA has 57 737s on firm order plus many more options. There are 27 737-500s still in CO/UA's fleet.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
UA has 57 737s on firm order plus many more options. There are 27 737-500s still in CO/UA's fleet.

Obs those are going to be gone. They are by far the most inefficent narrowbodies in the combined fleet.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5410 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
I wouldn't say they're replacing them at all. There happen to be 739s coming in and 735s leaving. Unrelated to each other.

With airlines as big as UA and DL, there's not always specific one-to-one replacement of domestic aircraft, just replacement of capacity. Pretty much any domestic capacity coming in is a "replacement" for whatever capacity is leaving. What's leaving is a few 757s and a bunch of 735s. What's coming in is a bunch of 738s and 739s. It's just like DL, which has DC-9s leaving and much larger used MD-90s coming in as "replacements."


User currently offlinephishphan70 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting CO787EWR (Reply 6):
Why doesn't FedEx/cargo market like the winglets?
Quoting United1 (Reply 7):
Something to do with the amount of gate space and added weight...its been discussed a few times on here.



The most important factor is they use them on shorter trips. Winglets weigh quite a bit, and i forget the exact number, but i believe you need to fly the aircraft on 3+ hour segments to make up the fuel savings in cruise vs. the cost to carry the weight of the winglet. They improve short field performance, but that isn't a concern of FX. Just look at the 744D. The design doesn't have winglets because they would cost more to carry on the short hauls then they would save.
ALSO, because they weigh so much, that takes away additional weight you could fill with cargo. I know FX usually runs out of space before weight, but i'm sure there are a few cases where FX wishes they could throw another ton or two onto a flight.


User currently offlinewrenchon727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

Any one know the tails leaving the fleet. Is s/n 26705 going threw its lease return in SFO or has it been returned to the lease company already.

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