United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 7074 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 8488 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
Got to love what Continental is doing for ole United.
Be careful about making that statement...UA was outperforming CO financially and operationally prior to the merger. I'd say a better statement would be "Got to love what CO and UA are doing for eachother."
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
usdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1203 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 8398 times:
Great results, but I'm surprised they aren't zooming past DL. UA/CO and DL seem to be mirroring each other in terms of performance, although DL seems to be doing a bit better on the PRASM side in spite of its relatively less robust network. As time goes on and UA wraps up integration, I wonder how things will look. Does anybody have information on what UA's plans are for its network and capacity?
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5285 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 8058 times:
Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 6): Great results, but I'm surprised they aren't zooming past DL. UA/CO and DL seem to be mirroring each other in terms of performance, although DL seems to be doing a bit better on the PRASM side in spite of its relatively less robust network.
Both UA and DL did similarly well in 2011 in terms of margins; for example, for the full year:
Difference is that Delta tripped up in Q1 2011, generating an operating loss while UAL eeked out an Operating Profit in a difficult quarter with big fuel price increases, while UA tripped up somewhat in Q4 2011 with a 3.3% operating margin (excluding specials) against Delta's 7.7% operating margin (excluding specials).
The one area that DL has made progress in is closing the Mainline PRASM gap, where it has traditionally almost always trailed UAL and AMR:
Mainline PRASM (not stage-length adjusted but the three majors are relatively similar)
UAL: 11.00 cents
AMR: 10.92 cents
DAL: 10.56 cents (96% of UAL)
In any case, the case for consolidation (and the resulting robust global network) has been clearly made....UAL and DAL are able to generate some pretty strong results despite all the challenges in 2011.
coronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1342 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 7860 times:
It seems like Delta has been more aggressive in parking airplanes during Q4 than United Continental so in the words of R. Anderson, were not going to give back during the winter months all the profits we make during the summer months.
It is interesting to see how both of these airlines are so close in performance and other metrics.
I wonder where they will be a year from now as United Continental rationalizes their regional aircraft fleet and contract flying arrangements. Delta having completed its merger earlier seems to be about a year ahead in the process of deciding what 50pax jets to park.
Per the 10K's United at the end of the period (12/31/2011) reports 701 mainline aircraft and 555 regional aircraft. Delta reports 707 mainline aircraft and a total of 775 aircraft on their balance sheet. What is a good estimate of how many contract aircraft operate for Delta at present (winter months), recognizing that there is some variability due to the Sky West house color fleet?
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
delta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 7708 times:
Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 6): Great results, but I'm surprised they aren't zooming past DL. UA/CO and DL seem to be mirroring each other in terms of performance, although DL seems to be doing a bit better on the PRASM side in spite of its relatively less robust network. As time goes on and UA wraps up integration, I wonder how things will look. Does anybody have information on what UA's plans are for its network and capacity?
Well in all fairness, UA/CO merger is still in progress. We have seen some great benefits but going forward will be interesting. If UA gets contracts that are fair to employees and good for the company (competitive costs, scope, flexibility) , we should see UA outperform DL on some metrics. If not, then we stay relatively the same, which is OK because UA is already performing well. I think it's great that $265 million is going to profit sharing on Feb. 14th (same day DL pays theirs).
Even though I'm on voluntary furlough, and probably won't return, I have many friends at UA and I wish them nothing but the best going forward. They deserve it after BK!
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 8724 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 7193 times:
I think this is great news. Our industry seems to be at a level where most carriers can make a healthy profit. DL and UA are big competitors now, neither with a distinct overall advantage over the other. Hopefully AA and US (or AA/US) can come near the same levels without disrupting UA and DL's current profits. It would be would to see a stable industry, if that is all possible...
But DL still isn't fully through with the merger process themselves as of yet.
The union "issue" was only recently resolved so "pay" is streamlined as we speak.
Basically, DL's numbers are not the "end result, fully-merged-synergy-benefit" numbers, still.
Let's talk again in 4 years, to see where UA would be.
In any regard, the closeness in numbers of these companies at this time is amazing.
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
delimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1839 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4734 times:
The moment DL and NW merged COs days we're numbered. Delta would have taken CO apart. It would have been it's weakest competitor.
The continued chanting of "CO saved United" is really getting tiresome, honestly. It also doesn't match reality. CO was losing money before the merger; and UA was making it. Consistantly.
I'm a Delta fan personally, so I don't really have a dog in this race. I feel bad for the UA fans though. Anytime they try and have a rational conversation about the shape of the airline premerger the peanut gallery goes another Roy d of how CO saved them and took over the airline.
MSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3767 times:
This is the first quarter in my recent memory where UA fell considerably behind DL. But on the flip-side they've been usually running ahead of DL while being concurrently in the merging process. So UA has earned a little leeway. Hopefully they'll rebound as they work on becoming one.