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ANA B-787 Stuck In Frankfurt AOG  
User currently offlineluxair_ca From Luxembourg, joined Feb 2002, 54 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 46096 times:

Todays (26.1.2012)ANA flight from Frankfurt back to Haneda was cancelled due to technical problems...according to some info in FRA, the flight will also stay on the ground tomorrow and might maybe only leave on saturday...

Anybody has more info on this??

99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 45481 times:

Wonder if this is an engine replacement situation.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTinosky From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 44944 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
Wonder if this is an engine replacement situation

I would highly dought it. We would be hearing alot more if it was. On another note, wonder if they will be sending a 77W to replace the aircraft while it gets seriviced?

Tinosky


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4723 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 44793 times:
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Quoting luxair_ca (Thread starter):
Todays (26.1.2012)ANA flight from Frankfurt back to Haneda was cancelled due to technical problems...according to some info in FRA, the flight will also stay on the ground tomorrow and might maybe only leave on saturday...

That would be too bad for the passengers booked on the flight. But since I am flying to FRA tomorrow I might get to see the B787 real live for the first time.  . Every disadvantage has an advantage.  .


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 44564 times:

Listen, I am no fan of Boeing or the 787, but things break on all aircraft. If it's AOG they will fix it as soon as they can; until then it sits on the ground. Like any other plane.

User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 44304 times:

Every 787 problem is also blown out of proportion.

The only problems that get blown out of proportion worse, are anything to do with QANTAS.  


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 44246 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 4):
But since I am flying to FRA tomorrow I might get to see the B787 real live for the first time.  

Does anybody know where they stored the NH 787? I cannot imagine that LH Technik can help right now but who knows.

[Edited 2012-01-26 13:34:59 by srbmod]

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 43953 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
Wonder if this is an engine replacement situation.

Not if they're talking about flying out within 48 hours...even a really good and experienced engine change team needs a full night do to an engine swap at home. We're talking about a new type at an outstation far from home that I'm going to bet big money didn't have a spare Trent1000 sitting there.

Tom.


User currently offlineflynorth From Sweden, joined Mar 2008, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 43605 times:

Quoting luxair_ca (Thread starter):
Todays (26.1.2012)ANA flight from Frankfurt back to Haneda was cancelled due to technical problems...according to some info in FRA, the flight will also stay on the ground tomorrow and might maybe only leave on saturday...

Are you sure?

ANA204 (JA805A) is heading back to Japan as of right now. Or is this a different plane as what you are referring to?

http://sv.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA204


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3515 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 43403 times:
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Sounds like a sensor rather than an engine... Of course the idea it was an engine was only supposition.

User currently onlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2435 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 43332 times:

Quoting flynorth (Reply 8):
ANA204 (JA805A) is heading back to Japan as of right now. Or is this a different plane as what you are referring to?

This shows cancelled due to aircraft maintenance.

http://fli.ana.co.jp/fs/inten



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 43300 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
Not if they're talking about flying out within 48 hours...even a really good and experienced engine change team needs a full night do to an engine swap at home. We're talking about a new type at an outstation far from home that I'm going to bet big money didn't have a spare Trent1000 sitting there.

Tom.

A spare could arrive by the morning, or more likely, spare parts. The RR factory is pretty close. RR technicians who know how to change out a 787 engine could arrive with it. Just saying...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 43211 times:

It looks like they are on their way back to Haneda. I wish them all a safe flight!

I was on board the brand new international configured ANA B-787 Dreamliner on her very first HND-FRA long haul inaugural flight.

All went very nicely without any glitches. I saw the aircraft departing from the gate and getting her shower before she headed to the runway for take-off.

It was all a wondeful unforgettable experience. I have posted Part 1 of my trip report and Part 2 will be posted soon.

I hope all will be back in order very soon and the Princess Dreamliner JA805A will be able to do her regular runs to Frankfurt without any trouble.

All new aircrafts have their own teething problems. Think of the A380s. I hope the ANA Dreamliners will all fly safely in the months and years to come!

  

[Edited 2012-01-26 14:06:15]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 43047 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 6):
Does anybody know where they stored the NH 787? I cannot imagine that LH Technik can help right now but who knows.

I was at the Zeppelinheim viewing deck today, and I bet my wife €10 that a ANA 787 was stranded - I saw it parked nose south, down at the Cargo section (not cargo süd)....



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinekl692 From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 39642 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 13):
I was at the Zeppelinheim viewing deck today, and I bet my wife €10 that a ANA 787 was stranded - I saw it parked nose south, down at the Cargo section (not cargo süd)....

So did you take the money from your wife. Flightaware i not reporting right as it shows the flight in en route how two other tracking site shows the flight cancel.

ALL NIPPON AIRWAYS - NH 204

[Planned Flight Info]
FRA-HND 11:15/Thu - 06:45/Fri 11:30

[Flight Notes]
FRA-HND DEPARTS TERMINAL 1
FRA-HND ARRIVES TERMINAL I
FRA-HND MCT FLIGHT TRACKING I/I
FRA-HND 9/ NON-SMOKING
FRA-HND ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE

[Operational Flight Info]
FRA 21:00 ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE
FRA - AIRCRAFT DEFECTS
FRA 21:27 LEFT THE GATE
FRA - PLANE IS LATE IN HOURS MINUTES
FRA - AIRCRAFT DEFECTS
FRA 21:33 TOOK OFF
HND 16:53 ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL



A310, A330,A346,B73H, B747,B772,B77W,CRJ
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 37098 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 11):
A spare could arrive by the morning, or more likely, spare parts. The RR factory is pretty close. RR technicians who know how to change out a 787 engine could arrive with it. Just saying...

I don't care if you've got the best cracker-jack RR/Boeing AOG team in existance, if you shred an engine at a site away from your maintenance facility and without a spare engine on site, you're not flying again in 48 hours.

Tom.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 36038 times:

Quoting kl692 (Reply 14):

When i walked home at 6pm it was still parked... I will call tower and ask :-p



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3515 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 35585 times:
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Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):
without a spare engine on site

Tom, any proof that it is an engine?...


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 35131 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 17):
Tom, any proof that it is an engine?...

No no no, quite the opposite. I was responding to a speculation higher up:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 1):
Wonder if this is an engine replacement situation.

combined with this:

Quoting luxair_ca (Thread starter):
according to some info in FRA, the flight will also stay on the ground tomorrow and might maybe only leave on saturday..

My point was that *either* it's not an engine replacement problem or it's not leaving Friday/Saturday. I have no idea what the problem actually was.

Tom.


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9003 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 33608 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

2 things I can confirm:

1) it was NO engine problem,
2) it left FRA yesterday evening.

Wilco737
  

[Edited 2012-01-31 23:17:46]


It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 32972 times:

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 19):
2 this I can cinfutm:

1) it was NO engine problem,
2) it left FRA yesterday evening.

Wilco737

But it left empty? Flightaware shows the flight but ANA shows the service as having been cancelled.



BV
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9003 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 32893 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 20):
But it left empty?

I don't know, sorry. The above information are the only I have.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 31758 times:

It's landing in Tokyo right now.
http://www.flightradar24.com/2012-01-27/07:30/ANA204


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 30875 times:

Quoting kl692 (Reply 14):
Flightaware i not reporting right as it shows the flight in en route how two other tracking site shows the flight cancel.

Outside the US, Flightaware is about as accurate as the marketing schedules. They do not have any other information than the flight plans - only inside the US there is a real time update. Same is true with most other flight tracking systems, none is complete with a low error rate.

Good to hear the problem seems to have been minor - better be careful than sorry, especially on a brand new aircraft. The 787 will share with the A380 that every fly in the cockpit will make it to the media and a.net. Always save landings, on time departures are less important.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4723 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 30630 times:
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Quoting wilco737 (Reply 19):
2) it left FRA yesterday evening.

I landed at 08:15 in FRA. And due to a rather long bus ride I saw all the planes parked at FRA. But no B787. Wilco's post explained why. Too bad that I have to wait a bit longer to see the B787 real live for the first time.  .

But it is good that she is on her way again.  .


25 kl692 : I could be wrong but I don't think the flight left empty, If it did left empty, then shouldn't the flight back to home base be a different flight num
26 Post contains images MadameConcorde : I trusted JA805A would make it back to HND safely. She is a wonderful aircraft. I am proud to be a passenger on the first HND-FRA with ANA 21 January
27 BoeingVista : Maybe the flight number should have been changed but ANA have still have the service as cancelled on their website from which I deduce it was cancell
28 na : Add the A380.
29 flyingalex : Very likely indeed. The FRA-HND leaves fairly early in the day, long before the FRA-NRT flights on NH, LH and JL. If those flights had not had enough
30 Post contains images Babybus : Dawg, I bet the passengers were praying for a LH A380 ride home. Hope it got home safely and can make it back to Europe in the future.
31 BoeingVista : It's not that small either but luckily ANA is running it with an A320 seat count.
32 LTC8K6 : The 380 was mentioned in a prior post, but it seems to be missing now. That's why my post says "also".
33 EPA001 : Indeed, just over 50% by weight if I am not mistaken. Does anyone know already a bit more about what the problem was?[Edited 2012-01-27 11:44:55]
34 ikramerica : Maybe some of Japanese friends who are just waking can help?
35 MD11Engineer : RR won´t change the engine. They will work ON the engine itself, if necessary, but not on the airframe / engine interface. Also, you would need to g
36 MadameConcorde : The Economy class seat spacing on the ANA international configured B-787 Dreamliner is very well balanced allowing a fair amount of leg room. I did n
37 stylo777 : I might be wrong or mixing it up with JAL but isn't LH Technik the maintenance contractor for 787 checks anyway?
38 notaxonrotax : No news yet on the cause?? Would be interesting to know. I mentioned that actually, but the post got deleted. Perhaps I expressed myself wrong…..it
39 sweair : Yes LH technik are the only european 787 tech guys right now, GEs engines only? Is this really wise as the 787 will go all around europe soon? Its a b
40 Post contains images fruitbat : As was (is) every A380 problem.......just a feature of the industry I suppose...... From what I hear, you'd be surprised what inventory is where.....
41 kl692 : So what was the problem with the A/C? Or perhaps there was nothing wrong with the A/C or it got fixed and she left FRA since no ones seems to find wha
42 N14AZ : I heard that todays flight was cancelled as well, does anybody know more?
43 EPA001 : It seems awfully quiet about the reason for the B787 cancelled flight(s). Is ANA keeping their lips extremely tight sealed? Normally we would have kno
44 Post contains links flood : It appears so, based on FA and ANA's website. I was trying to dig up some info on the previous tech issue this morning but couldn't find anything. Qu
45 RoseFlyer : Airlines are always tight lipped about what causes delays and cancellations. That's for them to review internally and share with the manufacturer and
46 aviatorcraig : Don't want to be picky, but thats a Singapore A380
47 Post contains images flood : Picky, picky There's a disconnect between my mind and fingers lately And yet for the longest time, it seemed every little A380 glitch hit the media.
48 flood : Japanese tweet from unknown source cites flap problems for previous issue. Google translation: "For long-distance aircraft of 787 (JA805A) tone is too
49 ikramerica : Not with a japanese company. Especially a japanese company. Between the culture of not making any negative news public until sometimes it's too late
50 Post contains images brons2 : I think QUANTAS gets blown out of proportion worse, I mean, anyone spells it like that and the whole of a.net is falling all over itself to tell that
51 BoeingVista : I'm sure that you checked but yep, the ANA website lists the 30/01 flight as cancelled due to aircraft maintenance So this 787 long haul service FRA-
52 tdscanuck : When the very good 96.5% on-time rate posted by ANA came out a few weeks ago, it was widely torn down as being based on a statistically too small sam
53 ikramerica : Problem is, just like when there was an A380 issue at SQ (or was it EK) that meant that multiple segments had a sub, it's still ONE problem that hasn
54 planesntrains : Excellent point. I'm not sure how one can draw any conclusions one week into the service, but there are people who will want to for their own reasons
55 BoeingVista : Well Tom, Dave, statistically ANA would have to run the next 45 services (15 weeks) on time with no disruptions in order to achieve 96% on-time so I
56 planesntrains : Again, to you it probably is. This aircraft is pretty new to service, so it's hard for me to get all worked up over it. After five scheduled round tr
57 aerorobnz : Certifying engineers will I'm sure be taking the most conservative dispatch decisions on a new type such as the 787 until they are well and truly fami
58 BoeingVista : Its been in service 3 months, and under reliability testing for 1-2 years, when will you consider it to not be a new type just so we know. An aircraf
59 BlueSky1976 : Is it possible that the Frankfurt flap issue reported here is the same technical problem that prevented the aircraft from being delivered from Everett
60 flood : Not sure the aircraft even made it to FRA as ANA's website shows the HND-FRA leg was cancelled that day as well.
61 BoeingVista : A bit confused now, but yeah it does show that doesn't it. So on the up side no ferry from FRA required but on the downside They lose 2 services.. Co
62 tdscanuck : It's been under reliability testing for 6 months, not 2 years. Function & reliability testing is the last thing you do prior to certification and
63 BoeingVista : But components are under reliability testing by their manufacturers from day 1, how many flap activations or gear swings happened in testing faciliti
64 PITingres : For 96% on-time to even MEAN anything you need at least 50 samples (so that you can talk about 48 out of 50). So I'm not sure what "relevance" you ar
65 Burkhard : This other aircraft is an A380 - ANA and LH have a joint venture on flights Japan-Europe AFAIK.
66 cmf : He is talking about what it takes to get to 50 samples and 96%, i.e. no problems during the next 45 flights. I think this is bad usage of statistics.
67 BoeingVista : I was projecting a best case scenario over 50 flights, its not a bad a usage of statistics its just statistics. But as the 787 never left HND on 30/1
68 cmf : Bad statistics is when you use something that though correct isn't representative of the whole. Of course this is bad statistics. When each occurrenc
69 Post contains links yeogeo : The 787 HND-FRA flights have been scheduled to operate every other day with ANA 77E services operating on the alternate days: http://www.ana.co.jp/to
70 planesntrains : Exactly. Again, I would agree. But, again, not everyone will feel that way. -Dave
71 United727 : Tom, when are they expecting their STC for the GEnx?
72 Roseflyer : A couple comments on this. I worked in reliability analysis at a major airline, so I consider myself an expert on what type of analysis is done on me
73 Post contains images ferpe : @Roseflyer Thanks for taking the time to write such a post, I learned a lot on a subject which I never had contact with. This is what make A.net so in
74 Roseflyer : That's a very good point. Analysis for reliability always starts with an entire fleet. Delays, Cancellations, etc are more likely to be broken down b
75 tdscanuck : Absolutely true. But you originally said: That time horizon only makes sense if you're talking about the airframe level reliability (and that's only
76 United727 : So all "variants" of types are operated with ATC's??
77 wjcandee : The last couple of posts in this category just made reading this thread worthwhile. Thanks, RoseFlyer and Tom. It's always so interesting to compare w
78 BoeingVista : I second that, thanks, a lot of questions answered. Really, for a trend analysis I would have thought routes (or at least stage length) would have be
79 Roseflyer : Routes really aren't that important when analysis is being done, because there are very few things that can be fixed based on routes. Here are a few
80 tdscanuck : Typically, yes. There is no regulatory reason it can't be done as an STC but if the OEM is developing the variant it's often more expedient to do it
81 holzmann : So why don't we send some our FRA-based plane spotters over with their 500mm lenses and keep an eye on who is going in and out of the thing and what i
82 Post contains links cmf : Per Flightglobal The 26 January service was cancelled in Frankfurt when the aircraft's flap system failed, while the 30 January cancellation in Haneda
83 kanban : Dang! thought it was the unconcerned parts that were wanting attention... or is the phrase "concerned parts" a regional thing that gets lost in trans
84 Post contains images PM : At short notice, a plane scheduled to fly a service from Frankfurt to Tokyo is unable to do so requiring the passengers to be rebooked on other fligh
85 Post contains images N14AZ : 500mm lenses wouldn't be sufficient given the fact that the plane in discussion is already back in Japan, see some of the earlier posts on this threa
86 spacecadet : That sounds... kind of alarming! I'm sure something is lost in translation there - what could have failed in this case?
87 Daysleeper : Got to add, Flap failure doesn't sound much better... still bet the high speed landing would be fun. Also - these are teething problems (scary ones I
88 Burkhard : "temporary failure of the computer software " doesn't make sense to me. Software has bugs we know, but these are permenant until fixed...
89 Daysleeper : Perhaps the system crashed or locked up requiring a re-boot? All this is a bit puzzling to me, with these jets being in service in Japan for the last
90 BoeingVista : Probably a mistranslation but the software is likely to be stored on solid memory (you wouldn't want to boot from disc) so maybe they lost some EPROM
91 flood : The flight was delayed 30 min out of HND as well. Despite the "bad statistics", I do find it interesting that at this point the reliability of this r
92 bikerthai : Could be they replaced a processor board/blade. And since the replacement board was probably a spare, they would have to load relevant software for t
93 Roseflyer : These don't sound like rare problems at all. These sound like typical problems found on any airplane any day. Like I said earlier, two is not a trend
94 BoeingVista : Continuing 787 watch, 3/2/12 flight is en route from HND but with a 1 hour delay (02:12 departure), checking Flightaware the earliest this flight has
95 Roseflyer : When delays are repetitive, I immediately would look at airport operations or weather. HND has all its international flights restricted to a narrow w
96 seabosdca : Also because the airline only has one frame in operation in the long-haul configuration. When they have an entire fleet of them, some of these proble
97 stratosphere : I dunno have been dealing with Boeing for some time now. Its surprising that an airframe like the 777 has such little support. You order a part and th
98 wjcandee : [edited because discussion removed][Edited 2012-02-03 12:50:37]
99 wilco737 : This thread has run its course. It is not about the 787 being stucked in FRA anymore. Thread is locked now.
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