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NYC Airports Responsible For Half Of US Delays  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8357 times:

Four NY airports (EWR, LGA, JFK and TEB) plus PHL which share airspace accounted for nearly 50% of all delays in the nation while only representing 12% of US air-traffic in 2011.
This is up from being 1/3 of the delays back in 2005 even as air traffic has declined in the US during the period.

During 2011 JFK delays averaged 67 minutes, up from 58 minutes in 2006.

So much for all the hoopla about ATC and airspace redesign in the NY area. A national embarrassment imo…

Full article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/bu...l-delays.html?partner=yahoofinance

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDornier328JET From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8242 times:

I don't really find it surprising. I live in the NY metro and I learned to fly in the vicinity of NY airspace and the sheer volume of air traffic was always amazing. I'm sure if you combined the 3 New York airports they would by and large be the busiest in the world, and I'm positive that the traffic being split between the three is partially to blame for the delays, as if there were one large airport and one smaller one (like Chicago) there would be fewer aircraft and consequently fewer delays. The close proximity of the three airports certainly doesn't help. It's not like other metros like L.A. where there is more than one airport but the smaller airports are significantly smaller and fairly spread out. As building one giant airport (maybe to replace LGA and JFK) is clearly out of the question, a redesign of the airspace is probably our best bet, and I have my doubts if it will ever happen.

User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8178 times:

Yes, but what you need to remember is 12% of US air traffic is still a HUUUUUGE numbers of air traffic movements, and all of them moved thru an impossibly small piece of airspace. This is nothing like the midwest. I empathize with controllers from that part of the country. (I envy them a little as well....)


slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlinewagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8099 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
So much for all the hoopla about ATC and airspace redesign in the NY area. A national embarrassment imo…

Except that essentially none of the airspace redesign project has even occurred yet. JFK got new departure fixes a couple of months ago, so not long enough to draw any real conclusions from yet.

And I didn't really read the article so I'm not sure if its you or the article that says PHL shares airspace with New York. I really don't know where that misconception comes from, since I'll be working said PHL airspace in a couple of hours. PHL Approach's airspace is affiliated with no one but itself. Our main problem is being boxed in by 8 other approach controls and other flows of traffic above or around our airspace that creates inefficiencies for our own traffic.



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1028 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8085 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Four NY airports (EWR, LGA, JFK and TEB) plus PHL which share airspace accounted for nearly 50% of all delays in the nation while only representing 12% of US air-traffic in 2011.

TEB was suppose to be a better option than the large airports, an airport where people would fly to to avoid delays. no longer the case...

Last week a Falcon 900 going to Milan had to taxi back for fuel. Never seen that before at that airport


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21861 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8039 times:

Quoting wagz (Reply 3):
And I didn't really read the article so I'm not sure if its you or the article that says PHL shares airspace with New York. I really don't know where that misconception comes from, since I'll be working said PHL airspace in a couple of hours. PHL Approach's airspace is affiliated with no one but itself.

You clearly know the airspace better than me, but we do talk to PHL Approach every time we go into the EWR satellites (CDW, MMU, TEB) on the JAIKE3 arrival.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7990 times:

I am not surprised at this. You have 3 major airports (EWR, JFK, LGA), 2 major international gateways (JFK, EWR), one with a lot of short-haul traffic (LGA), TEB and WPN both major bizjet airports as well as ISP, frequent weather issues (rain, fog, snow, ice, thunderstorms, fog) you got a cluster of traffic probably only exceeded by maybe the London, UK area. We are trying to fit 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound bag. Hopefully 'Nexgen' ATC programs will help, but that seems to be years away. Perhaps the only hope is to reduce movements with fewer 'commuter' a/c ops and have them use larger aircraft but less frequency.

User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7941 times:

Well... I don't know why all these airplanes want to come to the NY Airspace.

Lets all have them fly to Paris, Texas?

You have almost 200 movements per hour, between the 3 airports with only 9 potential runways, and in reality only 3 runways in use for primarly landings...

Our airports are only so capable, maybe you should take it up with the airlines that want to fly RJs into our airports?



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7924 times:

And yet... DL insists on making a megahub in the NYC area.

User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7894 times:

OK, a few things to take into consideration:

1. Delays at NYC are not only affected by airspace management. They are affected by weather and also surface management issues. For weather, go to http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/ once in a while and see how often the NYC airports are affected by delays.
2. PHL does have an impact on NYC because most flights into NYC pass through ZDC (Washington Center) or ZOB (Cleveland Center - which happens to be the busiest ARTCC in the country). If these centers are overwhelmed with traffic or have weather obstructions, you are naturally going to have delays at NYC which ripples into delays at other airports.
3. Yes, there are 7 airports within a 50 mile radius of each other in the NY area - EWR, JFK, TEB, ISP, LGA, SWF, HPN. Managing departure and approach paths for this airports is a nightmare (I worked a bit on this project in grad school) so RNP routes (Required Navigation Performance) will definitely help here.
4. The results of the NY airspace redesign are not even out yet. They did do a trial for about a month last year and I think are just now analyzing some results.
5. More runways aren't going to help unless you can increase the capacity of the TRACONs or Centers.
6. Surface management - the taxiway layout at JFK is restrictive and not very flexible, so it is important that you optimize the length of the departure queue and when aircraft push back from the gate. Have a look at this press release from my company: http://www.saabsensis.com/docs/660/
This program will definitely help to reduce some of the departure delays at JFK.

In short, you can't just attribute delays in the NYC area to airspace, there are many, many other factors at play. There are many promising NextGen

9V-SPJ


User currently offlinewagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7788 times:
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Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
You clearly know the airspace better than me, but we do talk to PHL Approach every time we go into the EWR satellites (CDW, MMU, TEB) on the JAIKE3 arrival.

Indeed, we run part of the JAIKE3. Not sure why it doesn't stay high above us, but I think we took control of that piece of it some years ago before I worked there. On the other hand the parallel turbojet arrival in to EWR stays above us in ZDC airspace, and in fact we are missing a large chunk of airspace above 7000 for the ARD holding pattern.

We also work the turboprop arrivals to EWR and LGA through the south side of our airspace.



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21861 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

Quoting wagz (Reply 10):
Not sure why it doesn't stay high above us,

Nor me. I suspect it's for EWR/JFK/LGA arrivals. I wish it would stay higher, though - it's a killer on fuel burn.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7637 times:

Annual aircraft Operations, 2010 (which is actually a bit lower than some previous years)
From FAA OpsNet: (http://aspm.faa.gov/opsnet/sys/Main.asp?force=atads)

JFK: 404174
LGA: 367346
EWR: 408821
TEB: 158486

TOTAL CORE NYC AIRPORTS (within 20 miles of each other): 1,338,827
(11 runways, or 6 if you eliminate intersections)

SWF: 46531
ISP: 152233
HPN: 188021

TOTAL NYC: 1,725,612
(18 runways 10 non-intersecting)

PHL: 460779 (4 runways, 3 non-intersecting)

TOTAL NYC + PHL: 2,186,391 (22 runways, 13 non-intersecting)


By comparison, the busiest stand-alone airport, ATL, is only 950,119 a year. LHR? 454,883.

LAX, with its 4 parallel runways and gorgeous weather handles 575,835... If we're generous with the area and throw in ONT (94030), LGB (303529), BUR (111556), SNA (272525), and VNY (311311), the regional total, for an area more than double the area the 4 main NYC areas are confined within, comes to 1,668.786 (17 runways, 13 non-intersecting).

I'm sure if NYC had better weather, a giant expanse of ocean on one whole side of the area, and JFK and/or EWR had LAX's runway layout, things would be a lot better. Alas, it doesn't, so we're stuck with it until we get next gen ATC and maybe some re-building or expansion at the main airports. The former is taking forever due to lack of sufficient investment and management, and the only glimmer of hope for the latter is a 3rd parallel at EWR, which is still in the distant possible planning stages.


User currently offlinevincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7581 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
6. Surface management

Last week I flew AF006 and landed at JFK 4R/22L. I understand there were a lot of aircraft movements but the aircraft was held up for 20 minutes from crossing runway 4L/22R toward the gate (T1). Couldn't complain too much as I was spotting all sorts of foreign carriers but image if you have tight connections, it must be agonizing every minute.


User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1247 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7459 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Nor me. I suspect it's for EWR/JFK/LGA arrivals. I wish it would stay higher, though - it's a killer on fuel burn.

My Parents house is right under where several airways/arrivals converge. One in particular is the JAIKE just south of WACKI where JFK Departures are climbing out on RBV.J230. RBV guys do often easily cross on J230 between WACKI and ILENE at 220-240 but I'm sure the FAA threw in some space in case of a slow climber on the Breezy Point just to get over top those TEB landers. However just north of there it only gets worse because as you know the JAIKE has a restriction to cross REGLE at 7 which is right where BEAUTY is on the MIP4 into LGA which has a 10k restriction. So they REALLY wanna make sure those guys have plenty of time to get down between both those streams of traffic which causes the arrival to run right through Philly TRACON.

You wanna know whats the worse arrival to fly. The SPUDS/SLATT into PHL from the north. ZBW will throw those guys down to 12k a few miles north of AVP!! They've got to tunnel under the FQM2, MIP4 and LENDY6 plus 3 to 4 N90 Departure gates hooking up with their associated airways. It all needs to change... Who knows when changes will actually save us some money...


User currently offlinemy235 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7305 times:

Yes not surprising at all. It's NYC.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7277 times:

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 8):

There is only one mega hub in the NYC area and that's EWR...

For that matter, with the LGA slot swap, net departures will remain about the same while using larger a/c. As they've said, they are adding 4 million seats while not adding to air congestion.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7168 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
NYC Airports Responsible For Half Of US Delays

In a way, I guess that can be good news.

Back before the new Denver International Airport (pre-1995) was built, there were some who stated that the old Stapleton Airport was Responsible for Half of the U.S. Delays.

So the city just built a new airport and problem solved......

Maybe the NYC area needs to take the Denver approach.....???

(okay, you know that I'm just having some fun here   )


User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
(okay, you know that I'm just having some fun here )

Poor Staten Island, so who wants to deliver the eviction notices? Better yet; who wants to be the one to say that the government claimed imminent domain on their property and their $300k+ property is worth a fraction now?



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlinecorinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Comparing 2007 data, which was the worst on record, to 2011. Stats are from http://www.transtats.bts.gov and airports.org.

National Average:

% On-time arrivals: 73.4% (2007); 79.2% (2011)
% On-time Departures: 76.7% (2007); 80.6% (2011)

JFK
Movements: 446,388 (2007); 413,601 (2011)
Movements per day: 1,223 (2007); 1,133 (2011)
% On-time arrivals: 62.8% (2007); 74.5% (2011)
% On-time Departures: 69% (2007); 76.8% (2011)

LGA
Movements: 391,872 (2007); 370,690 (2011)
Movements per day: 1,074 (2007); 1,016 (2011)
% On-time arrivals: 58.5% (2007); 71.5% (2011)
% On-time Departures: 71.6% (2007); 78.7% (2011)

EWR
Movements: 435,691 (2007); 417,149 (2011)
Movements per day: 1194 (2007); 1,143 (2011)
% On-time arrivals: 59.5% (2007); 66.3% (2011)
% On-time Departures: 67.8% (2007); 72.8% (2011)

PHL
Movements: 499,653 (2007); 448,129 (2011)
Movements per day: 1,369 (2007); 1,228 (2011)
% On-time arrivals: 66.5% (2007); 75.5% (2011)
% On-time Departures: 69.6% (2007); 78.4% (2011)

Looks like operational performance has improved across the board. Of course, it probably helps that movements are way down compared to before. As for the average delay, I'm curious to see why it's longer when there are fewer delays in total. This article doesn't really go into that detail or really mention that the percentage of delays is way down.


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

Quoting nycdave (Reply 12):
TOTAL NYC + PHL: 2,186,391 (22 runways, 13 non-intersecting)


By comparison, the busiest stand-alone airport, ATL, is only 950,119 a year. LHR? 454,883.

Your comparison really speaks for the efficiency of ATL. NYC+PHL is a tad over 2 times ATL which has under 1/4 of the runways.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

80 percent of all delayed flights late in 2009 happened at just seven airports — La Guardia, Kennedy, Newark, San Francisco, Atlanta, Philadelphia and O’Hare in Chicago. Interesting if the NYT is right on that, seems believable

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 8):
And yet... DL insists on making a megahub in the NYC area.

I really think DL will experience tons of pain and problems if they try to connect too many people thru LGA and i hope/dont think that is their goal at all especially since they will have such a split NYC operation. They are after NYC o&d which if delayed often can still be profitable and worth it. Delta hopefully will set up long connection times in LGA and pricing to avoid connecting too many people thru LGA. I will feel so bad for the Delta customer service people in LGA if they try to connect too many people thru there  
Quoting wagz (Reply 3):
And I didn't really read the article so I'm not sure if its you or the article that says PHL shares airspace with New York. I really don't know where that misconception comes from, since I'll be working said PHL airspace in a couple of hours. PHL Approach's airspace is affiliated with no one but itself

The article is the one that mentions PHL is in NYC airspace the thread starter just said what was in the article


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

As long as there's the regional jet craze you are going to have ATC cluster you know whats. Especially into busy areas such as the Northeast (PHL, NYC airports and BOS). There's big money, population and business. Things would ease up if for example you had a larger plane hauling 150 passengers vs. three 50 passenger RJ's. Also if all the airlines colluded and charged premium fares to go into airports such as DCA, PHL, BOS, EWR, JFK and LGA. As long as there's a market for travel during the peak periods there will be delays. Also Mother Nature doesn't help one bit. Seems the Northeast is prone to lousy weather for flying,


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

If you use Albany NY as a center point for the northeast its amazing the large airports within 300 miles YYZ, YUL, TEB, JFK, LGA, EWR, SWF, HPN, ACY, BUR, BOS, PVD, MHT, YQB, BDL, and ISP that is an amazing amount of flights and tons of small airports thrown in there for the big airports without even thrown in in all the smaller ones plus as we all know this area sees its fair share of snowstorms and bad weather

User currently offlinepanam92 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4126 times:
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Don't forget Republic airport in Farmingdale New York also has quite a bit of biz jets flying into this airport which is about 15 miles from JFK

25 Post contains links pliersinsight : You all forgot one rarely used approach and one non-intersecting runway in the NYC area: http://www.jeppesen.com/documents/co...udson_River_Miracle_Ap
26 Post contains links washingtonian : Can somebody provide a quick status update on the NYC airspace redesign project? If I remember correctly, the FAA recently re-designed (is that the wo
27 daviation : For my 2-cents, since this has national ramifications, we need federal money to fund a high-speed rail connection at SWF to bring people quickly into
28 DCA-ROCguy : New York City delays....a top-50 or top-60 Airliners.net chestnut. Unless and until some means is developed to move more a/c in and out of the NYC air
29 Post contains images TOMMY767 : Well DL's hub in JFK has been there for years. They are trying to make an O&D hub out of LGA. We'll see how that works out for them. If anything
30 26point2 : Regular Presidential TFRs in NYC don't help. I've seen more TFRs there in the past year than any other region I get to. I doubt this is factored into
31 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : Useless by what standard? RJ and prop feed from small markets contributes vital value to UA's EWR hub, especially to high-yield international flights
32 TOMMY767 : I mean there's also no reason why they need to fly EWR-BTV 6-7 times a day as well. That can be condensed to just a few Q400s mixed in with a mainlin
33 DCA-ROCguy : We can thank Mr. Tilton, if I remember right, for parking all UA 737's. If he and Smisek wanted CO pilots to get on board with more 70-100 seat a/c i
34 TOMMY767 : Tilton had nothing to do with this. Back in the Bethune era, CO used to fly 737s and M80s on a lot of secondary markets from EWR. Then by the mid-200
35 Flighty : NYC delays are a national problem that clearly justifies federal action. Just like a busy intersection in a major city, police (or ATC) have every rig
36 TOMMY767 : The DOT should just reduce the amount of take off/landing per hour slots. I think right now it's 80, but they should reduce it to 60-70. It will teac
37 Post contains images khpn : HAHAHA! reminds me of the thread that came up a year or two ago discussing how NY could pull such an endeavor off. it was a good laugh. I remember so
38 corinthians : That's what the PA was thinking when they bought SWF. They gave plenty of incentives to encourage airlines to start up services there. They failed mi
39 mogandoCI : By the time you factor in getting to the airport early, dealing with TSA, and potential delays of all reasons, Amtrak Acela is actually a really attr
40 TOMMY767 : I haven't recalled one day where good weather has led to a normal on time window out of EWR. If the wind blows the wrong way there are always holds a
41 STT757 : What is UA doing differently at EWR than any other us airline at any other hub? Their use of RJ's at EWR is not out of line with any other US airline
42 Flighty : Yes, I think otherwise. The access to a city is eminent domain, not that difficult to see that. I understand a court ruling went in favor of private
43 corinthians : If that's the case, you're living in the wrong place, pal, and you should move to a country like China where they don't respect property rights. And
44 DCA-ROCguy : DCA is also slotted below capacity for a couple of other reasons too: NIMBY pressure, and MWAA's desire to protect IAD. But regardless of the number
45 Post contains links FlyPNS1 : But it isn't good at all times either. As is, even on good days, flights heading into the NYC area take delays in the form of miles-in-trail restrict
46 TOMMY767 : It's not punishing, it's regulating. When there are only 60% of an airport's flights ontime (on GOOD weather days) and most of the flights are done b
47 CO787EWR : If we had European or Asian type of High Speed Rail on the North East Corridor it would cut down on some the flights between DC-Philly-NYC-Boston. The
48 DCA-ROCguy : Actual private property--such as the Kelo home in New London, CT of the infamous Kelo case--is one thing. The city was out of bounds to condemn one c
49 Indy : Are these delays really necessary? Could delays be reduced if airlines went with larger jets instead of scheduling smaller jets at greater frequency?
50 daviation : I have to disagree with you. For a little history, back in the 1970s & 80s, EWR was also very much underutilized. In fact, the Port Authority use
51 Mir : Why is this bad? The only people an airline hurts when it pads its schedules is itself. But HPN is a far more wealthy area than SWF. -Mir
52 Post contains links corinthians : Are you saying that fewer flights and slots haven't had an impact? I'd like to see a schedule between 2007 and 2011 showing flight times between cert
53 Mir : Not an airspace expert, but from what I've seen:

 They put in some new departure fixes and new RNAV airways going out to the west a few months a
54 STT757 : Is that an airport capacity issue or an issue of antiquated ATC infrastructure and procedures? When PeoplExpress came along it made EWR the busiest a
55 daviation : Corinthians, you are probably correct. There really is no short-term solution for SWF. It's a shame because SWF really has a good existing infrastruct
56 corinthians : Considering that LTN and STN - which are both really far, have great rail connections and have excellent facilities - are nothing more than budget ca
57 FlyPNS1 : You think the airlines doesn't pass these costs down to the consumer? No, I'm arguing that no appreciable cuts in flights have actually happened. Num
58 corinthians : Why don't we look at the whole year. JFK Movements: 446,388 (2007); 413,601 (2011) , which is a 7% cut in flights EWR Movements: 435,691 (2007); 417,
59 FlyPNS1 : You can't say that without knowing when the cuts occurred. If the cuts were late at night or early morning, they wouldn't have that much impact. Airl
60 Mir : They might well do. But that's why there's competition to compel the airlines to schedule their airplanes the most effectively. Padding schedules may
61 Post contains images Flighty : They were slot squatting so they could trade with Delta for slots DL "owned" down at National. You can take that to the bank (and they did)..
62 corinthians : And good for them for making the sale. At least they get the money for their property than having it illegally taken away. Let's see how many of thos
63 TOMMY767 : This needs to increase. JFK can hold it's own. It has more runways and things are a bit more spaced out.
64 FlyPNS1 : But everyone pads their schedules going into NYC...even WN. And what good is having a better schedule when the customer finds out you really can't me
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