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US Carriers Flying Same Trans-oceanic Route  
User currently onlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 401 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9098 times:

Is ORD-CDG the only trans-oceanic route flown by three different US carriers? There are multiple city pairs with two airlines serving the route, but ORD-CDG is the only route I can think of that has three (UA, AA, DL).

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5957 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9091 times:

Quoting jetskipper (Thread starter):
Is ORD-CDG the only trans-oceanic route flown by three different US carriers?

LAX-NRT is the only other one I can think of.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8991 times:

JFK-SDQ (AA, DL, B6)

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8909 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 2):
JFK-SDQ (AA, DL, B6)

Is that trans-oceanic though? In the OP's defination, I would think he means intercontinental flights.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8860 times:

Yeah, I admit that was a stretch.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8645 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 4):

Not "international" and technically not intercontinental but LAX-HNL has UA/AA/DL/HA.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8643 times:

HNL-NRT (DL,HA,UA), HNL-OSA (DL,HA,UA), HNL-FUK (DL,HA), LAX-SYD (UA,DL AA*) AA Codeshare with QF, UA,HA HNL-NYC* (It's not international, but the longest domestic nonstop flights over 9.5hrs)

User currently onlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3795 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8516 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

JFK-LHR: AA/BA and DL
EWR-LHR: UA/CO (and BA if you consider it as being "AA")

If you combine JFK and EWR in one destination and call it NYC, then you can say "NYC-LHR" is flown by all three major big US carriers: AA, DL and UA. All three together, if you include BA, that's at least 15 flights a day if not more!



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
JFK-LHR: AA/BA and DL
EWR-LHR: UA/CO (and BA if you consider it as being "AA")

If you combine JFK and EWR in one destination and call it NYC, then you can say "NYC-LHR" is flown by all three major big US carriers: AA, DL and UA. All three together, if you include BA, that's at least 15 flights a day if not more!

And Virgin, because they codeshare with Virgin America. Going that far makes it all a pretty big stretch. For LAX-SYD, it would technically be United, Delta, American via Qantas, and Virgin America via Virgin Australia. I think using codeshares defeats the purpose!


User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3660 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8071 times:
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Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 9):
I think using codeshares defeats the purpose!

What about joint ventures where it is metal neutral?

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 6):
HNL-NRT (DL,HA,UA)

HA flies to HND, not NRT. For HNL-TYO, yes there are 3 U.S. carriers on the route.
However, if you consider the UA/ANA and AA/JAL trans-pac joint ventures, which are metal neutral, then HNL-HND has HA, UA/ANA, and AA/JAL.

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 6):
HNL-OSA (DL,HA,UA)

UA nor ANA fly HNL-OSA. But AA/JAL does and with the JV.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7988 times:
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Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
JFK-LHR: AA/BA and DL
EWR-LHR: UA/CO (and BA if you consider it as being "AA")

LAX to LHR : AA & UA

ORD to LHR: UA & AA

BOS to LHR : AA & DL

MIA to LHR: DL & AA


User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7159 times:

I suppose back when UA had a presence at JFK there wold have been overlap on a couple EU routes with AA, UA and DL.
ORD-BRU;ORD-FRA UA and AA for a while, but AA pulled these routes recently.
SEA-NRT DL and UA (At one time AA operated this route, but I am not sure if UA and DL were also doing this at the same time)
SFO-NRT DL and UA

LAX-NRT. UA AA DL


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6986 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):

Exactly. It takes away from the original intent and spirit of the thread IMO. We all know what code-shares and JVs mean but for this purpose I thinky your own metal is what satisfies the question. Saying LAX-SYD is AA/DL/UA is a bit much..



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6639 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 12):

Exactly. It takes away from the original intent and spirit of the thread IMO. We all know what code-shares and JVs mean but for this purpose I thinky your own metal is what satisfies the question. Saying LAX-SYD is AA/DL/UA is a bit much..

Agree, we have to be taalking about the airlines owm metal or this thread will get rediculous.


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 795 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6264 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 6):
LAX-SYD (UA,DL AA*) AA Codeshare with QF, UA,

LAX-SYD is not flown by AA. The OP refers to routes flown by US carriers.
If you include codeshares, there will be many more routes.


User currently onlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3795 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5064 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Just to add an additional comment to my last post on this thread: UA was flying JFK-LHR at one time in the 90s so even excluding EWR, and if you exclude codeshares and joint ventures, JFK-LHR qualifies because it has been flown by all three major US carriers, AA, DL and UA although not all at the same time.


Ben Soriano
User currently offlineSRQKEF From Iceland, joined Jun 2011, 885 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

If you combine JFK+EWR you should get a few destinations NYC-Europe. Are you talking about city pairs or airports specifically?

Rgds,
Sveinn



Flights flown: 280 - Airlines: 40 - Airports: 64 - Next flights: KEF-BOS-EWR-PBI-TPA/SFB-KEF
User currently onlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3795 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4262 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SRQKEF (Reply 16):
If you combine JFK+EWR you should get a few destinations NYC-Europe. Are you talking about city pairs or airports specifically?

That's exactly what I thought of. I thought JFK+EWR combined would make me add more destinations in Europe, BRU being one of them, because AA and DL fly to a lot of places in Europe out of JFK and UA (CO) does the same out of EWR.

So to clarify your point, if you talk about city pairs, such as JFK and EWR combined, then yes you should get more destinations in Europe. But if you talk about airports specifically then as I point out in my last reply, JFK-LHR qualifies because the route has been flown by all three airlines each on their own metal: AA, DL and UA.

I started to talk about city pairs because I had forgotten UA had flown JFK-LHR on its own, but then I realized this would add more destinations in Europe. And I also realized that not talking about city pairs, JFK-LHR would be an example.

Final answer: I ended up talking about both to clarify my examples.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinecitation501sp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

SEA to NRT may get a third again with NH, however most would speculate that UA would drop the route and let NH fly it and reap the Joint Venture benefits.

501sp

[Edited 2012-01-29 14:10:12]


Smoke and Thunder! Stage 2 FOREVER!!!
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 11):
I suppose back when UA had a presence at JFK there wold have been overlap on a couple EU routes with AA, UA and DL.

Never... The only European destination UA ever served from JFK was LHR, which DL did not, and legally couldn't. Before open skies only two US carriers could legally fly JFK-LHR (or to LHR at all).

However, there was definitely an overlap on JFK-CDG between AA, DL, and TW, though it wasn't very long as it took a long time for AA to move to ORY. If you consider CDG/ORY as one airport it continued for quite a long time. I'm not sure if there was any overlap between the three on other routes -- JFK-FRA maybe? There also might have been between AA, NW, and UA on JFK-NRT, I don't remember the exact dates AA started that route and NW and UA ended it but they all must have been within a few years of each other.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3263 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 11):
SEA-NRT DL and UA (At one time AA operated this route, but I am not sure if UA and DL were also doing this at the same time)

CO also operated this route with a 742, don't know the exact time frame though.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25343 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 17):
Quoting SRQKEF (Reply 16):
If you combine JFK+EWR you should get a few destinations NYC-Europe. Are you talking about city pairs or airports specifically?

That's exactly what I thought of. I thought JFK+EWR combined would make me add more destinations in Europe, BRU being one of them, because AA and DL fly to a lot of places in Europe out of JFK and UA (CO) does the same out of EWR.

As a sidenote, I was trying to think of all the carriers that at one time or another have operated scheduled passenger services between the New York area and London (all airports combined). Those I can think of (have probably missed one or two):

U.S. carriers
Pan Am
American Overseas Airlines (acquired by Pan Am in 1950)
TWA
American
United
Continental
Delta
People Express
Eos Airlines (all-business class 752s JFK-Stansted 2005-2008)
MAXjet (all-business class 762s JFK-Stansted 2005-2007)

British carriers
BOAC
British Airways
British Caledonian
Virgin Atlantic
Laker Airways (Skytrain)
Silverjet (all-business class 762s EWR-Luton 2007-2008)

Foreign carriers (5th freedom)
Air India
El Al
Kuwait Airways
Qantas
Japan Airlines

Any others?

[Edited 2012-01-29 15:22:15]

User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Foreign carriers (5th freedom)
Air India
El Al
Kuwait Airways

Any others?

QF JFK-LHR

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineTR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 271 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3615 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Foreign carriers (5th freedom)
Air India
El Al
Kuwait Airways

Any others?
Quoting gemuser (Reply 22):
QF JFK-LHR

Also JAL JFK-LHR


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25343 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3553 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 22):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Foreign carriers (5th freedom)
Air India
El Al
Kuwait Airways

Any others?

QF JFK-LHR

Right, forgot about QF. Also forgot about JAL which operated around-the-world service via HND-HNL-SFO-JFK-LHR with 5th freedom rights U.S.-LHR for a few years in the 1960s/early '70s using DC-8s. Added QF and JL to my llist above.


25 VC10er : What does 5th freedom mean? I get a non US or NON UK airline can carry Pax from JFK to London (I once almost bought a ticket on Kuwait years before th
26 Viscount724 : It's the term used when a carrier is granted local traffic rights between two foreign points on a flight originating or terminating in the carrier's
27 VC10er : You are a human encyclopedia! Thank you. We need a 10th freedom for edible food! Thanks so much
28 atcsundevil : Which will lead, inevitably, to a 11th Freedom ... Free cookies for everyone! Great explanation. I knew what 1-5 were because I learned it in a colle
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