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Teesside Airport Could Close  
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 701 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7929 times:

Not looking good for Teesside Airport (Durham Tees Valley):

1) Decision in days to either extend sale period or place airport into Administration (effectively closure)
2) Peel not attending Tees Valley Partnership meetings
3) Peel not attending airport consultative meetings
4) Peel allegedly reneging on "promises"

Sadly, the future does not look bright.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/arc...airport_owners_of_broken_promises/

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7648 times:

Losing BD's LHR link has really hurt.

Losing meaningful rail service has also hurt. That is how I used to get to/from MME back when it was my hometown airport. It was *very* convenient.

I ended up switching to NCL (if I was connecting @ LHR) or taking the train to King's Cross if I had business there on my way to/from the USA or Asia.

I can't see much hope unless:
1. LHR link is restored (very unlikely)
2. Charter activity is focused on MME vs. NCL and other points in the NE (very unlikely)
3. It is easier to get to/from MME (have trains between Darlington and Saltburn stop at MME at key times)
4. The economy picks up in the NE (doesn't look good)

The name change from Teesside to Durham Tees Valley has not helped, either.

Sad.


- DBC


User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7412 times:

Hmm terrible news, I'd hate to see another British airport close. Plymouth airport only just closed over a month ago, I wonder how many more airports will shut down in the near future...?  


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8465 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7394 times:
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I feel thankful this airport is in my flown list, wish I'd managed Plymouth before that closed  

Given the location, the LHR link was vital, even if downgraded to the E145, loss of this route, IMO is akin to rot setting in.

Shame, was quick and easy to use.



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User currently offlinemainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2096 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7348 times:

With a population of about half a million, surely MME is an asset the Teeside area cannot afford to lose. The economy and aviation are very cyclical, after all.

The combined effect of losing LHR, rising ADP and £6 departure tax haven't helped......but surely from this size of market, AMS, ABZ, BHD, DUB, ALC, TFS, AGP, PMI and JER and ancillary activities should be able to guarantee a functioning airport? The money used in running it (assuming it isn't profitable) should be subject to a proper cost-benefit analysis for the wider Tees area. Direct access to AMS in particular is crucial.


User currently offlineSuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Does anyone know how KL is doing on the route, load-wise? I don't know if there is a lot of general aviation activity, but a couple of months ago there were rumors that KL was going to stop the service (at the time they announced the Liverpool cut). I can imagine that to be the final blow to the airport, but those talks seem to have died down.

Local authorities should keep in mind that a service like that is the difference between being one stop away from the whole world and having to travel to Manchester (?), a non-hub airport (but with a convenient number of international destinations).


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 5):
Does anyone know how KL is doing on the route, load-wise?

According to a thread in on a Dutch website the AMS-MME market was 103,264 pax last year.

http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81584


User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6851 times:

I think this could be start of seeing a few UK airports closing, and is just a matter of time...

The only airlines that can really save them is the Low Cost Airlines like Ryanair, easyJet, Jet2, FlyBE and BMI Baby, but going by history this has not worked. I think it is the following factors:

1.
The LCC airlines demand low fees, and these small regional airports cannot afford to offer it to them.

2.
Airlines are against their passengers having to pay upfront ADF (Airport Development Fees) and the perception from passengers are they feel they shouldn't have to pay it.

3.
The aircraft the majority of the LCC airlines use, is the A320/737 family aircraft and these are simply to big to be used from these airports, from a standpoint of demand... Business routes to major cities, require multiple daily frequencies or atleast daily services and tourists going to the major Mediterranean sunshine hotspots, want more than just a single weekly frequency. But when routes are operated more frequently they simply cannot fill them.

I think other airports like Manston, Humberside, Blackpool, Bournemouth Newquay and possibly Norwich could all face the same prospect over the next few years to a decade!

Airports like Manston only see one passenger flight a day at the moment, with a single FlyBE route to EDI.

Other airports are reliant upon a single LCC to bring in all the traffic and can only fill these aircraft during the summer months. These small airports are going to be first to be cut if there is a change in the economic climate, fuel prices, etc... They may also have a route or two flown by prop or 50-100 seater jet, flown year round, but is questionable if these will make an airport sustainable.

FlyBE even struggled to make a single weekly E-195 service between HUY and PMI work!

Some of the aiports have a reasonable amount of chartered traffic like BOH, NWI and EXT. But this traffic is going to be vulnerable over time, as routes get consolidated to the larger more major airports, as the market continues to shrink. Thomas Cook's current woes just confirm this.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6840 times:

While it is sad to see the airport go, what use is it keeping it open? It only has a KL AMS flight and a Eastern ABZ flight as sched daily (If that) services. Tomorrow for example the airport has 5 flights all day! No ooubt it gets very busy in the summer with all the charter and holiday flights, but im sure NCL could cope with the bulk of that traffic?

User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

On my list of UK airports/heliport with commercial flights in 2010 and 2011 I've given 2 airports the red colour, Plymouth and Penzance. Plymouth did in reality close down in July 2011 as the radar went out of service and travelers only were offered a bus connection to/from Newquay. Penzance is closing down in the last days of June 2012, and British International will continue from Newquay with their S-61s.

The second colour on my list is orange and 6 airports got this colour that mark a high probability for closure. Durham Tees has certainly got this colour together with Blackpool (the only of the six with positive growth fra 2010 to 2011), Oxford (Manx2 will try this summer, Baboo failed last time), Bournemouth, Dundee and Doncaster.

I have a third level marked with a light yellow colour and it's airports to watch closely. There may be many reasons to get on this light yellow watch list like closeness to other large airport with free capacity, growth may not materialize, dependency on one carrier, important maintenance facility may have to close, airport owner may have financial difficulties, operational problems due to limited space for growth and so on. The 10 airports I watch closely are: Norwich, Southend, Liverpool, Belfast City, Manston, Cloucestershire, Newquay, Prestwick, Cardiff and Humberside.

You may have noticed that non of the airports/airfields with PSO traffic is not on this list (with one exception). I consider these airports/airfields as fairly safe provided the government manage to fix the British economy. And listen politicians, Air Passenger Duty is NOT the correct measure - it only discourage dearly needed foreign tourists to travel to UK.


User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Southend

I could see maybe Southend taking off with the news routes. I hope the new U2 base works well there with the new 9 routes starting in April.



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinemainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2096 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 5):
Local authorities should keep in mind that a service like that is the difference between being one stop away from the whole world and having to travel to Manchester

The authorities know this, and it wouldn't surprise me if Peel and the 5 local councils which currently own 25% reached a deal to buy it back. I hope so!


User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
According to a thread in on a Dutch website the AMS-MME market was 103,264 pax last year.

If that is correct, then 54 % of all passengers at MME fly with KLM - MME had according to UK CAA in 2011 190,284 passengers.


User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

The KLM website shows 3 flights daily, and the F70 takes about 80 passengers.

Assuming flights on 350 days PA, that would give 168,000 seats or an LF of about 61%.

I know that my calc is hardly scientific, but that does not sound good.


User currently offlineSuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6767 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
According to a thread in on a Dutch website the AMS-MME market was 103,264 pax last year.

http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.p...81584

Thanks, and a really interesting link!

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
While it is sad to see the airport go, what use is it keeping it open? It only has a KL AMS flight and a Eastern ABZ flight as sched daily (If that) services. Tomorrow for example the airport has 5 flights all day!

Actually KL flies to Teesside 3 times a day. Other than that, there is not much commercial traffic, but there might be some general aviation?

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 13):
The KLM website shows 3 flights daily, and the F70 takes about 80 passengers.

Assuming flights on 350 days PA, that would give 168,000 seats or an LF of about 61%.

I know that my calc is hardly scientific, but that does not sound good.

Well... I don't expect the O&D traffic Middlesbrough - Amsterdam being able to fill 200 seats a day, so the majority of those passengers will be connecting, also filling long-haul seats. I don't know the load levels on other regional services into Britain, or secondary cities in France / Nordic countries / Germany, but I suspect the main objective is not to fill those Cityhopper planes to the brim, but instead connect them to Tokyo or Rio de Janeiro or somewhere else far away.

[Edited 2012-01-29 14:47:32]

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6751 times:

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 14):
Actually KL flies to Teesside 3 times a day

I saw, as does Eastern, but is it in full operation on a weekend?


User currently offlineSuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6744 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 15):
I saw, as does Eastern, but is it in full operation on a weekend?

According to their schedule, yes.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 16):
According to their schedule, yes.

If that is the case, is there a real need to keep the airport open when it only fully gets used for a month or 2 in the summer and winter, and the rest of the time just 6 flights a day when there is a major airport just up the road? By all means keep it GA but is there a need to a terminal and everything that goes with it?

Would these 6 services even provide the money needed to run the airport, staff, security immigration etc?


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

Fingers crossed for Teeside, hopefully they will recognise that we are in a short term downturn and that long term the UK will need far more runway capacity than it has.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Plymouth did in reality close down in July 2011 as the radar went out of service

Nope, 23rd December. The radar was out of service for August, as it has been since it was first set up since it's operated by the military who are not at work during August.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Penzance is closing down in the last days of June 2012,

October now, they have extended the operation there.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
While it is sad to see the airport go, what use is it keeping it open?

Commercial traffic isn't the only income airports receive. To cite Plymouth as an example, it wasn't mothballed because it couldn't generate a profit; there is enough non airline traffic to run a successful operation there. However the operators didn't want to change the business model and had an escape clause where they could end their 150 year lease early and take a 25% cut on the sale of the land. Doesn't take a genius to work out what they tried to do there...


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 18):
Commercial traffic isn't the only income airports receive.

So GA landing and take off costs as well as storage? Do the night cargo flights pay the airport a visit? What income does Durham get other then the small amount of commercial traffic and the GA traffic that warrants a terminal and all that comes with one?


User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 10):
I could see maybe Southend taking off with the news routes. I hope the new U2 base works well there with the new 9 routes starting in April.

Reasons for being on the watch list: "growth may not materialize" and "dependency on one carrier".

I passed through MME last week of January 2010 - in from with Aberdeen in the afternoon, had perfect dinner at The Brasserie in Yarm, stayed the night at the St. George Hotel (across the parking from the terminal) and flew the next morning with the early Eastern Airways flight to SOU with a short stop at LBA to collect more passenger (we were only three out of MME that morning).

MME is only one of 36 airports in the UK I have flown to and/or from - seven more will be added the next three months (included Penzance that will close in June).


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6629 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 19):
So GA landing and take off costs as well as storage? Do the night cargo flights pay the airport a visit? What income does Durham get other then the small amount of commercial traffic and the GA traffic that warrants a terminal and all that comes with one?

Talking about the terminal and the airport as a whole are two different things - you hadn't mentioned it was just the terminal you were referring to in the post I quoted, and I opened the page before you qualified it in post 17.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6616 times:

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 20):
MME is only one of 36 airports in the UK I have flown to and/or from - seven more will be added the next three months (included Penzance that will close in June).

October now - feel free to drop me a line if you are coming through Plymouth.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 18):
Nope, 23rd December. The radar was out of service for August, as it has been since it was first set up since it's operated by the military who are not at work during August.

Wasn't the last scheduled Air Southwest flight out of Plymouth on 28 July then?



User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 23):
Wasn't the last scheduled Air Southwest flight out of Plymouth on 28 July then?

Yes, I was the last passenger to get off the last Air Southwest flight into Plymouth, but the airfield remained active until the 23rd December. Because of Plymouth's peripheral location and its poor overland access the airport still saw frequent business charters and the normal high level of use by the MoD right up until it was mothballed - as you probably know Plymouth is home to the largest naval dockyard in Western Europe.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
25 Post contains links and images LN-KGL : To be on the safe side we have scheduled our flights with Brintl the first days in April. On this trip Exeter, Land's End, St.Marys, Penzance, Tresco
26 spud757 : trouble is certain LCCs want to pay unsustainable fees to use these small regional airports. So the airports then rely on pax buying food, drinks and
27 nclmedic : This would indeed be a shame, but the writing's been on the wall for MME for some time now. It's certainly yet another blow for Teeside, but there are
28 Humberside : Your argument is focused purely on airline passenger traffic though. Airports have other income streams too, such as: Offshore helicopter flights Fre
29 TCASAlert : To be honest I think this is a sign of things to come, but I do think we need less airports in the UK. I mean lets be honest, within an hour of my hom
30 Post contains images PlymSpotter : But we are currently in a pretty serious period of financial stagnation. In the long run the UK is going to need more runway capacity, not less. You
31 Post contains images LN-KGL : I know, and we flew with BE1113 to Jersey on 15 August 2009 - and since we were the only foreigners on this flight we both picked out randomly for an
32 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I have to disagree there, the situation is not as simple as that for either. Plymouth did not close due to a lack of business or traffic, it closed b
33 LN-KGL : I didn't say that the decline in passengers at PLH was the only reason for its closure. It was indeed a more complicated situation. Wasn't there a for
34 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Plenty of possibility actually. Plans were drawn up for the extension in the last masterplan, IIRC planning permission was applied for and given, loc
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