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New BA Routes 2012  
User currently offlinesam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 21094 times:

I see BA have updated the following new routes page, which lists the route changes for summer 2012:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-routes/public/en_gb

Where do we think BA's new routes will be in winter 2012? If the BD acquisition goes ahead, which routes do we think IAG will keep/drop?


Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 20895 times:

Quoting sam1987 (Thread starter):
I see BA have updated the following new routes page, which lists the route changes for summer 2012:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-routes/public/en_gb

Where do we think BA's new routes will be in winter 2012? If the BD acquisition goes ahead, which routes do we think IAG will keep/drop?

I think that page gives some clues. BA has used the slots it has already acquired for a relatively modest expansion, with long haul expansion reserved for extra flights on existing routes to HKG, JFK, JNB and MIA with no new long haul routes. And previous long haul expansion was an extra flight to Tokyo (serving Haneda) and EZE direct (previously a tag on from GRU.)


User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 20394 times:

I doubt BA will say anything concrete until the BD purchase has gone through. Also, when they first get BD, they will have slots and a mostly A32X fleet so it will take a bit of time before more long haul routes and frequencies can be launched. I'm not sure if IAG will keep many of the BD routes, BA had first refusal on BMED and IB serves quite a few of the Middle Eastern routes which aren't massively high demand (although can be quite lucrative), The Moroccan routes might however stay as BD has gone quite quickly to three routes but the rest of the European routes (what's left of them) are pretty much covered by BA already.

Might BA keep the FNA route, could work a 767, same with ATQ given BA's coverage in India.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 20245 times:

The biggest surprise for me is to see ALG switch to LGW. I thought it was an oil destination and may be high yielding...
With BMI coming along, we might see a consolidation of North African destinations at LHR. Some ex BMED routes will stay for sure like GYD, BEY, FRU, ADD & KRT. BA said that it wants to focus on Africa. Not sure about the others ex CIS destinations.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19712 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 3):
Not sure about the others ex CIS destinations.

They would be foolish not to keep most of them for the growing O&G market, particularly with the ABZ connection and huge transatlantic presence - just handling the biz to LH & KL otherwise.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19202 times:

Any idea when the last BD flight as a Star Alliance member is scheduled? I'd like to go to Jordan between Xmas and NYE this year, and BRU-LHR-AMM with BD sounds tempting, both in terms of product in J and price (EUR 1,200 rtn).

User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 596 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18879 times:

Not exactly new in terms of routes, but I definately see BA adding frequency
to MLE - perhaps daily or more possibly 5 x weekly first. The premium loads have been great and will only grow as UL ceases LHR-MLE direct.

I would also not be suprised to see BA announce LGW-CMB/SEZ also. HM Have stopped LHR-SEZ and there is certainly enough premium traffic to fill a 777.

Personally I'd live to see LHR-KUL with a DPS tag


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18767 times:

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 6):
Not exactly new in terms of routes, but I definately see BA adding frequency
to MLE - perhaps daily or more possibly 5 x weekly first. The premium loads have been great and will only grow as UL ceases LHR-MLE direct.
Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 6):
I would also not be suprised to see BA announce LGW-CMB/SEZ also. HM Have stopped LHR-SEZ and there is certainly enough premium traffic to fill a 777.

Not likely. Certainly enough premium traffic? Questionable really, especially at a premium fare.

Frankly, I just can't see it. Theres other more important priorities around than what are essentially leisure routes.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 6):
Personally I'd live to see LHR-KUL with a DPS tag

Maybe KUL, with MH joining OW, but a DPS tag-on? Hardly a high yield option. Might as well funnel that traffic through their new OW partner.

[Edited 2012-01-31 00:05:57]

User currently offlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18653 times:

All chatter I know, but BA has previously lamented that it does not have a big enough presence in Asia, especially when compared to the likes of AF/KL and LH.

ICN, CAN or KIX?


User currently onlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18637 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
Maybe KUL, with MH joining OW, but a DPS tag-on? Hardly a high yield option. Might as well funnel that traffic through their new OW partner.

I suppose that could be a candidate for LGW with DPS being a huge tourist destination. Maybe even make it something like LGW-HKT-DPS



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 972 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 18070 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 3):
The biggest surprise for me is to see ALG switch to LGW. I thought it was an oil destination and may be high yielding...

Actually, ALG is not all that important in terms of oil business. I believe only Anadarko, Total and perhaps a few other firms have operations in Algeria, while there has historically been more business around TIP. For that reason, ALG is more of a VFR destination and is not a huge business destination, so switching to LGW is likely a better use of slots for BA.

Meanwhile, is it possible that the LHR to JFK/MIA frequency increases are just seasonal changes?


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17985 times:

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 8):
All chatter I know, but BA has previously lamented that it does not have a big enough presence in Asia, especially when compared to the likes of AF/KL and LH.

Both those carriers still have an interesting relationship with Asia, and have found the experience tough at times. BA has been conseravtive, but it still brings results. BA is more targeted in its approach in that regard, playing less risks but that can be a bad move also.

Asia is a growing market, but its a complex one and takes lots of hard work to get many routes to work.

As for DPS, its a long way for BA to fly, with limited high yield opportunities. It would be far wiser to use the services of MH to develop such links, possibly by commencing a KUL service of its own at some point (Further linking with QF also if they move soe SIN services across). I can't see BA chasing markets like those on its own, but will likely just stick to the bigger markets, with a broader passenger mix to try and profit from.


User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 745 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17911 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 3):
The biggest surprise for me is to see ALG switch to LGW. I thought it was an oil destination and may be high yielding...

There are a few pax connecting on to oild destinations within Algeria, but on every LHR-ALG flight I have worked Algerian passengers have formed the majority on board, formiing a minimum of 80% (rising to 90-95% during holiday periods). Even this traffic is mostly O&D with very few connections.

I'll miss the route as I have found ALG passengers some of the most pleasant & friendly on the shorthaul BA network.

The short lived LGW-Hassi Messaoud route was started to serve the oil market, but this market has long been dominated by JetAir private charters (currently operated by Monarch, but have been operated by other charter airlines e.g. Sabre & Excel).

http://www.jetair.co.uk/algeria-flights



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 17566 times:

I've been told by a few people who work for BA that BMI could possibly stay as a separate entity , shaving off some unprofitable destinations to free up slots for BA.
I am not sure how this will actually work out - surely easier to market flights through BA.

I would imagine some of the more important destinations will remain - BEY for sure which is almost always full and has been operating two A321s a day since last year. Perhaps combine this with a single 767 service or something, not sure



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 17546 times:

The additional JNB flight (BA033/034) is on a 777 with the return flight being a day time flight back to LHR. It'll be interesting to see how this goes as traditionally people have been against day time flights between Europe and SA. I know KLM does it though and BA's additional Cape Town summer flight is day time back to LHR.

User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 17402 times:

^^ Interesting they are flying a daytime flight on that one. Good experiment to try.

Quoting raffik (Reply 13):
I've been told by a few people who work for BA that BMI could possibly stay as a separate entity , shaving off some unprofitable destinations to free up slots for BA.

Not really sure there is much value left in keeping the brand. The purchase would appear to be far more valuable for slots and slots alone.

A few extra destinations maybe would be a bonus for them, but keeping the brand would likely only make ops more complex.


User currently onlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 17118 times:

BA want to serve Kilimanjaro, but cannot under current agreements with the crew union. Something to do with operating a triangle route and numberof sectors in a duty. They would also jump on Durban, but they don't want to dilute Comair's feed from JNB. If bmi do come across, FNA will stay.

Kind regards

Mike


User currently offlinespeedbird0125 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 17069 times:

Maybe ICN? I hear that BA is considering ICN as top cities to launch. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I hope to see BA at ICN.

User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 745 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16917 times:

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 16):
but cannot under current agreements with the crew union.

Possibly.......on the flight crew side.

It's doable on the cabin crew side & even if it wasn't with current cabin crew BA would just used the new, cheap non union crew.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7532 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15857 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
The purchase would appear to be far more valuable for slots and slots alone.

I think that the problem is suddenly gaining over 700 LHR weekly slots.

To illustrate the problem, to use all of these slots on long haul flights would require a fleet of between 50 and 60 long haul aircraft. Currently the available BA long haul fleet numbers 120 aircraft (55 744s, 46 772s, 14 763s and 5 77Ws) of which 117 are active and three are parked up.. So if all the BD slots were to be used for long haul flights - which is unlikely - BA would need to increase the size of its long haul fleet by up to 50 per cent.

If using the BD slots for BA long haul operations is a prime reason for purchasing BD - which is a not unreasonable assumption - expanding long haul operations by 50 per cent over a short period of time is operationally highly improbable. So many of BD's flights are likely to continue into the medium term future with eventual closure likely for a significant proportion. With eventual closure likely, continuing to operate them as BD flights is commercially a better option than making them BA flights and then discontinuing them.

If the above happens the logical thing is to retain the BD brand and gradually reduce the size of its operations as slots are transferred to BA in a measured way. The first slots to be transferred are likely to be on routes like LHR-EDI. As an example an early casualty could be BD050 LHR-EDI. It departs LHR at 06:55 just 15 minutes after BA's 06:40 A320 flight. Consolidating these flights onto a A321 or B763 is an obvious option. And there are other examples where BD currently operate a flight on this route within minutes of a BA flight.

This would give IAG time not only to confirm whether routes to destinations such as BEY and FNA are actually viable. If any are not currently viable this measured approach would show whether the higher level of oneworld (as opposed to Star) feed at LHR would make a significant difference to viability.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15525 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
The first slots to be transferred are likely to be on routes like LHR-EDI. As an example an early casualty could be BD050 LHR-EDI. It departs LHR at 06:55 just 15 minutes after BA's 06:40 A320 flight. Consolidating these flights onto a A321 or B763 is an obvious option. And there are other examples where BD currently operate a flight on this route within minutes of a BA flight.

For these flights, BA would need to find a replacement such increing flights to WAW or STR that have lost the red eyes or
add new shorthaul routes (JER, MRS, AGP, ... ) before expanding long haul.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3261 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14627 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
As an example an early casualty could be BD050 LHR-EDI. It departs LHR at 06:55 just 15 minutes after BA's 06:40 A320 flight. Consolidating these flights onto a A321 or B763 is an obvious option. And there are other examples where BD currently operate a flight on this route within minutes of a BA flight.

I think this is what will happen as it is how most aqusitions and mergers usually go, if BA goes this way, I'd expect you'll see their 767's making more Inter Europe flights, and additional slots for further increased frequencies or new destinations.
As stated above I do think KUL & ICN would both be viable routes for BA, for the reasons stated above.

If BA could find a way to make JRO work it sure would be a decent yielding route, although not front heavy, the demand is there and KL is the only other game in town. Routing AMS-JRO-DAR-AMS, the crews overnight in DAR, flights are always full during the mountain climbing season. Don't know if Condor runs a weekly flight to JRO or not any more.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineLAXorLGWonDL From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13906 times:

If BA has extra slots because of the acquisition, couldn't they allow OW partners to use any available slots? AA or others could then, possibly, aid in supporting increased frequencies...pending equipment/personnel availabiilty, of course.


Next Up: STR, JFK, ATL, TPA, ANC
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7532 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12616 times:

BA will also be restarting an LHR-TIP three-times-weekly service on 1 May:

http://press.ba.com/?p=2111


User currently offlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12408 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
Not really sure there is much value left in keeping the brand. The purchase would appear to be far more valuable for slots and slots alone.

A few extra destinations maybe would be a bonus for them, but keeping the brand would likely only make ops more complex.

In regard to this, and on a slight side-note, if BA does end up dissolving the BD brand and absorbing that which is profitable, where is it all going to go? T5 is basically full and it would completely defeat the point of it's LHR hub by operating out of not 1, not 2 but 3 terminals?


25 mikey72 : BA don't get out of bed for back heavy ! Are they likely to pull some of the long-haul routes from LGW ? BGI, KIN, BDA spring to mind....? On a purel
26 eastern023 : I was hoping for LIM or/and SCL as an annoucement.
27 airjamaica : Pull in terms of a switch over to LHR or as in axe ? By April BA will be the only carrier flying nonstop between London and Kingston as VS will axe L
28 mikey72 : No, transfer to keep a few BMI slots warm and maybe sex up the loads. As if they'd axe Barbados, Jamiaca and Bermuda. Just meant that those 3 could w
29 airjamaica : They should be able to IMO. I remember in the '80's most ( if not all ) of their Caribbean operations were done from LHR as opposed to LGW. Will be i
30 HUYfan : The problem with JRO is that it would be on the 767, which mixed fleet do not operate. Kind regards Mike
31 Viscount724 : With quite a few carriers cutting back on capacity due to the economic situation there should be a fair number of widebodies available for lease whic
32 Sketty222 : ICN is something that I have heard a lot of rumours about and would fit well with the rest of the OW options available to the Far East. KIX is anothe
33 RAGAZZO777 : Same here, but if BA will not operate these routes, then LAN will take care of them with the 787. SCL definitely needs more flights to Europe.
34 RWA380 : BA has some long haul leisure routes, that are not real front heavy. beleive me, there is some premium traffic for JRO, I have sold tons of tickets f
35 sam1987 : BA Cityflyer have recently announced three new summer seasonal routes - Mahon, Quimper and Angers.
36 AIR MALTA : Nice addition to LCY but these remain niche market routes... but what happened to the plan of expanding LGW. In the series, "Inside Gatwick", BA had
37 signol : Um, and BP. They have a big operation, I have a friend that flew there frequently on business. I'm led to believe the reverse is true. DUR is more a
38 APYu : She's still trying to get her business case approved for the investment that would require.
39 flycro : What routes could be launched from LGW then by this new manager?
40 alasdair1982 : Well, if they're opening up niche markets from LCY. How about INV?
41 skipness1E : I think it unlikely there is a need to expand loss making LGW short haul, I mean, why would you. I don't believe it has done, or is likely to, make an
42 BY738 : Mmm not sure that is strictly true. Thats one of the main reason the BA operated LGW from Scotland have survived and infact have increased.
43 AIR MALTA : That's not what the BA's LGW Manager was thinking. She clearly stated that she wants to expand LGW operations... I am sure some routes can sustain bo
44 sam1987 : I believe GB Airways made money in its latter days. So that proves that BA shorthaul from LGW can make money... perhaps they should look at the GB Ai
45 skipness1E : GB Airways was not BA, did not have BA's cost base or accounting procedures so any comaparison isn't really on a like for like. I know long haul is fe
46 LX138 : ALG is a route that does well for business traffic. Several oil firms use that service. There's also no lo-co competition so the fares are high. I be
47 VV701 : The only public comment by BA ,management on the future of its maintenance operations in relatively recent years was, I believe, at an investors' pre
48 skipness1E : They still use GLA for A320 series maintenance I think? Isn't PIK just rented hangar space for unexpected wing crack repairs?
49 Post contains links VV701 : Could be. All I know is that since 23 December when 319 G-EUPO was ferried to LHR from GLA after maintenance the following positioning flights have b
50 skipness1E : I am not complaining, great to see BA at PIK. even the diversions appear to be favouring PIK over GLA nowadays, the lack of BA handling at GLA I guesa
51 Tristarsteve : Its more wing trailing edge structure, but yes work that was not expected a year ago. It was holding up routine maintenance at GLA, so now the aircra
52 alexsuprabieber : I hope they keep the Jeddah route, as i hope to fly this next year, however BD already have a good name for themselves so i hope BA keep BD as they we
53 tonystan : BD are to be merged in BA Mainline so the BD name will die and I imagine it will be a swift one come the end of the summer schedule in October!
54 eicvd : & hopefully we'll have BA back here in DUB! Last time they flew LHR-DUB was well before my time.
55 GBRandSYCguy : SEZ could easily be added on to the existing MLE flights especially now as it looks like HM is not looking into coming back in Europe despite the EY i
56 tonystan : As much as Id love that....and believe I really really would I seriously doubt that will happen. Unfortunately BA will want to use the slots for more
57 VV701 : Many thanks. I assume that the problem is fleet-wide - so far BA have sent 7 319s, 4 320s and 2 321s to PIK. And it does not appear to be very quick
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