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Air NZ Announces Its Newest Destination: Bali  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11850 posts, RR: 18
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8961 times:
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NZ will re-launch AKL - DPS as a seasonal route from June - August using a B763. Fares go on sale from February 23rd using its 'popular' seats to suit fares

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/intern...6361786/Air-NZ-restarts-Bali-route

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8900 times:
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I know one person who will be excited about this... my retired flatmate loves Bali... goes a couple of times a year and he usually travels with hand luggage only so seats to suit will be fine for him.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineaircanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

well lets hope it does well and make it year round even if its only 3 or 5 weekly. i wish them luck  

User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8666 times:

It will be interesting to see if JQ try to compete with NZ on this route using their A332s.

User currently offlinetimb777 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2009, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8612 times:

Sounds great, this seems to be a good fit for the 763. I hope the pricing is competitive with VA one stops etc.....

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6901 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8560 times:

Quoting timb777 (Reply 4):
I hope the pricing is competitive with VA one stops etc.....

yep. would think that it will become a reservations option to fly AKL-NZ-DPS-VA-BNE/SYD-VA-AKL as well.


User currently offlinekoruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 3528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8458 times:

See my post in the main Air NZ thread.

So S2S is now launching long-haul, and the network planners would rather use a 763 on AKL-DPS than LAX-MAN or SFO-LHR or LAX-PPT.

So much for having a connected network. So much for yield modelling. So much for commercial common sense.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8432 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I know one person who will be excited about this... my retired flatmate loves Bali... goes a couple of times a year and he usually travels with hand luggage only so seats to suit will be fine for him.

I'm another one who is really pleased to see it. It's a place that a lot of people want to go. I've always been astonished that Air NZ was not flying to such a resort, that is so (comparatively) close.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8326 times:
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Although I am disappointed that it is not an exciting new destination ( I would rather have seen EZE or GRU with a 772) I do think it is a smart use of 767 capacity which would otherwise be underutilised during the New Zealand winter season to meet a currently unmet demand for direct flights to Bali. The risk in this route seems pretty minimal.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6901 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8282 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
The risk in this route seems pretty minimal.

As is the potential revenue for the company... The issue for me is not that NZ are flying to DPS, it's that the aircraft being used could be making more money on other existing/new routes.


User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8279 times:

Quoting timb777 (Reply 4):
Sounds great, this seems to be a good fit for the 763. I hope the pricing is competitive with VA one stops etc.....

Its actually quite a hassle via the one-stop. I have met my parents in Bali a couple of times and it seems thay end up travelling about 12 hours.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8245 times:
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Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
The issue for me is not that NZ are flying to DPS, it's that the aircraft being used could be making more money on other existing/new routes.

Routes such as?

Bear in mind that the 767 is no longer suitable for most longhaul routes due to the J product. I am curious what these other opportunities are for an aircraft near the end of its service life with only a short haul J product.



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User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8237 times:
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Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
As is the potential revenue for the company... The issue for me is not that NZ are flying to DPS, it's that the aircraft being used could be making more money on other existing/new routes.

I wonder where?

I think it is a place that should be on the route map because it is a place where many people want to go.

On a personal level, I'll take a holiday in Indonesia, especially Bali, over almost anywhere else in Asia or the Pacific Islands.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6901 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8012 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
Bear in mind that the 767 is no longer suitable for most longhaul routes due to the J product. I am curious what these other opportunities are for an aircraft near the end of its service life with only a short haul J product.
Quoting mariner (Reply 12):
I wonder where?

An extra service or two to HNL???

Random search in June/July to DPS across the whole month found
JQ from $830 (ie: seat only)
VA from $1430
MH from 1643

The same search for HNL found
NZ $1758
QF $1930
KE $2267


Effectively they could lower the average fare to HNL by $250 a seat and still bring in more than what DPS will... and have the chance to sell some of the J Class...(even if they discounted that as well for being an older product)


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7986 times:

If NZ wanted to fly to DPS they could have started anytime in the last few years. My question is why now!

User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 841 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7963 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 13):

An extra service or two to HNL???

Random search in June/July to DPS across the whole month found
JQ from $830 (ie: seat only)
VA from $1430
MH from 1643

The same search for HNL found
NZ $1758
QF $1930
KE $2267


Effectively they could lower the average fare to HNL by $250 a seat and still bring in more than what DPS will... and have the chance to sell some of the J Class...(even if they discounted that as well for being an older product)

Interesting. What could be the reason for this cost disparity? Perhaps landing fees, etc.?

In case anybody wonders, per gcmap, the distances for the routes are:

AKL-HNL: 4389mi
AKL-DPS: 4189mi

My theory is that ANZ intended to launch AKL-DPS with the 789 they have on order. Since, per Flight Global, they were supposed to arrive late 2013. Now, it appears, they will arrive sometime in 2014 (mid-late, I assume). 763's in NZ's fleet are just waiting to leave. I'm guessing that AKL-DPS is just a way for them to utilise a bird that is sitting around, doing nothing (what is their 763 fleet doing??).

[Edited 2012-02-02 21:08:19]


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinebyronicle6 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7957 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 14):
If NZ wanted to fly to DPS they could have started anytime in the last few years. My question is why now!

My guess is that because its a heavily reliant tourist market, and with the recession over the past few years which we are now emerging from, many people weren't in a financially stable position to travel for overseas holidays

Also what flight arrival/departure times are expected? Obviously one of the weekly flights will be Wednesday, and the other a Saturday or Sunday?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7956 times:
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Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 13):
An extra service or two to HNL???

If that rings your bell, but it doesn't do anything for me. DPS is the first time in years Air NZ has flown anywhere I might want to go for my vacations.

HNL is a mature market and lower fares may indeed stimulate that market some, but eventually it is finite, all markets are.

DPS is new territory and may well stimulate other areas of the base market, people like me.

Or does Air NZ simply give away that section of the market that prefers Asia?

mariner

[Edited 2012-02-02 21:19:48]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6901 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 16):
Also what flight arrival/departure times are expected?

would think early AM or Late PM out of AKL...like most charter operators...And they will need domestic feed.. I'd say 0700-0800 or 2359 departure.

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
If that rings your bell, but it doesn't do anything for me

It doesn't ring my bell, neither does DPS to be honest - it's somewhere that I would only pass through on a backpacking tour of South East Asia..

Unless they offer it as a direct KLM connection to AMS and beyond they aren't going to gain much onward feed either.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7853 times:
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Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 18):
It doesn't ring my bell, neither does DPS to be honest - it's somewhere that I would only pass through on a backpacking tour of South East Asia..

Not getting at you specifically, but it is interesting the prejudices people have about Bali ... there are actually some very upmarket areas and resorts ... it's not all about loud drunk backpackers vomiting their way around Kuta doing drugs and picking up STIs.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7830 times:
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Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 18):
It doesn't ring my bell, neither does DPS to be honest - it's somewhere that I would only pass through on a backpacking tour of South East Asia..

I don't stay on Bali, either.

I give myself a couple of nights somewhere glam - I've been going to the Oberoi since 1976 - and then either head off to Surabaya or get the short flight to Lombok, which is, for my money, pretty close to heaven.

I think it is crazy that no Australian (or obviously NZ) airline flies to Lombok, but I take what I can get.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinenethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7786 times:

Would love to see AIR NZ coming all the way to Phuket!
AKL-SYD-HKT on the 767-300ER WL! toe to toe with JQ!



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7601 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 14):
If NZ wanted to fly to DPS they could have started anytime in the last few years. My question is why now!

June, July and August coincides with use of the 77E on AKL-HNL which is the same distance.

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 16):
Also what flight arrival/departure times are expected? Obviously one of the weekly flights will be Wednesday, and the other a Saturday or Sunday?

Probably the same as the AKL-HNL 763 flights so it won't conflict with the rest of the 763 schedule: AKL-HNL dep 1100 Tu Th Sa, HNL-AKL arr 0630 We Fr Su.

PA515


User currently offlinegardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1520 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

A seasonal new service, hardly exciting stuff. This surely can become a year round service, can't see the problem in getting traffic all year round. Back in the 90s, both GA and NZ flew the route so it's ripe something came back.
There will also be some feed ex-Indonesia I would take.
I know GA were keen to resume AKL, has been mentioned a few times but nothing seems to come of it.


User currently offlinekoruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 3528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7259 times:

I currently have bookings for eight AKL-HNL business class returns this year, at NZ$5000 each.

I don't dispute that Bali is a Seats 2 Suit market, as it's a cheap and cheerful destination, but a long-haul flight.

I just want to know who they think will buy the 24 Business Class seats on every flight, and I want to know how much yield they will have to sacrifice to shift them.


25 kiwiandrew : If it helps, try not to think of them as business class, think of them as premium economy, since realistically that is what those seats are on any fl
26 MillwallSean : The feed ex indo from DPS will be small, very small. Thats why Garuda hasnt launched Auckland. The money isnt from DPS but thats the destination to w
27 ZKOJH : well what a funny route, lets hope they can pull this one off or they will look like Clowns . they will struggle to fill the 24 up front, and this wil
28 mariner : I'll almost certainly buy one of them. I think it bizarre to imagine that there isn't any premium traffic to Bali just because the cheap Kuta crowd g
29 koruman : The luxury hotels on Bali are primarily filled by southeast Asians, who live within three hours by plane. There are few Australians who stay in such h
30 BNE : I for one am glad that Air NZ are trying a new route. The time frame is good to test out the market to work out whether they should come back next yea
31 mariner : Not when I've been there. The Oberoi is a longtime stomping ground of mine, since 1976, and I disagree with you. mariner
32 Post contains images NZ6 : I wish Koruman could agree NZ and him don't see eye to eye with things yet they have run an airline through the worst 3-5 years of it's history and s
33 The Coachman : LOL If they launched a 763 on SFO-LHR, they wouldn't fill the 24 J seats either because BA and UA would have them for breakfast. LAX-MAN - you'd thin
34 kiwiandrew : I have often wondered that as well. It is a bit like me saying that NZ should obviously fly to BRU because I go there from time to time.
35 28L28L : The article mentions NZ ending DPS in the 1990s. Does anyone know what specific year that was? Cheers
36 aerorobnz : the year in the back of my mind is 1995. I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure it was not the later 90s
37 SKY1 : In the 1990's GA served even MAD, it means nothing. Today's aviation is far different that in the 90's ...If there's some business that it has dramat
38 alangirvan : Not sure of the year it ended, but if I remember it was a time when AirNZ was going to several Asian points, as part of trips to SIN. The DPS flights
39 kiwiandrew : Are you sure? I thought the BKK flights on NZ were a mix of via SIN or via BNE. I don't remember via SYD.
40 jamesnz : I flew AKL-DPS with my family in 1997 on one of their 747-200's. I'm pretty sure that was the last year they flew it, because the following year we h
41 777ER : Would an A321, B739ER or B752 be more suited to the route with all Y service?
42 kiwiandrew : Since none of those are in NZ's fleet, or ever likely to be in NZ's fleet it seems an odd question. But I would imagine that out of the 3 the 757 is
43 zkncj : The A321 has less range than a A320, it would need a fuel stop in CNS
44 gardermoen : Yes, there was one season circa mid/late 90s when they had a CHC/AKL-SYD-BKK weekly service. I remember it well from my timetable collection back the
45 nz2 : At $3000 each way???
46 mariner : I flew to Perth last winter and that was the Qantas fare for Business Class. mariner
47 nz2 : Book sales must be good then
48 anstar : SYD-RAR is a leisure route and that seems to be doing o seasonally. Can't see why DPS wouldnt work too.
49 NZ6 : Nice The other point to note is even though focusing on your "core market" may seem boring, an Airline of NZ's size should not expose itself to the w
50 Kaiarahi : In Koruman's defence, he invariably sets out his reasoning (demographics, yields, etc), whether you agree with it or not - unlike many others who thr
51 mariner : I'm one who has long supported AKL-MEX - as long as there are fifth freedom "beyond" rights attached to that - and I resist, and someone resent, the
52 aerorobnz : I'm prepared to cut DPS some slack at least for the first few months of operation for the following reason. The aircraft being used appears to have co
53 mariner : Cut DPS some slack - because of an aircraft? What about the customers? Once again, why should Air NZ ignore that section of its market base that does
54 alangirvan : All those planes would need a stop in Australia, and there are not really any larger Australian cities that are underserved with flights to Bali. 757
55 aerorobnz : Yes, but my point earlier was that the DPS 767 could have been better (more profitably) used to HNL- a route which could sustain more growth by frequ
56 mariner : New Zealand is a home market of four million people. I do not believe that Air NZ can afford to cede any section of that market to others. With this
57 koruman : It's a price-sensitive place that lots of Australians go to because it's 4 hours away, and because the airlines can send all-economy narrow-body airc
58 mariner : Load those dice. LOL. Both Virgin Australia and Air Australia just offered me Business Class to Bali - or a premium cabin - as did Garuda. Qantas off
59 koruman : Mariner, I didn't mean you - apologies if it sounded that way. I don't object to Air NZ opening a Bali route. But not non-stop on a 767 with 24 Busine
60 mariner : Bully. Without those Business Class seats, I won't be flying it, so I'm screwed just because you have some curious - and I think unrealistic - opinio
61 byronicle6 : I disagree. With a stop you are proposing in CNS or BNE it gives me no incentive to fly NZ over JQ or DJ or even SQ or MH. Therefore, i believe NZ wi
62 jetlag73 : I've been living in Bali for 12 years, and I can guarantee you that Bali shifted A LOT since the Kuta bombing. Now it is an upper end market compared
63 koruman : Yes, I have. I thought it was OK. One of the major problems in terms of the Australia/New Zealand market is that the winter (June-July) school holida
64 mariner : But Air New Zealand is not presently flying there in the rainy season. mariner
65 Kaiarahi : My apologies - that was not directed at you (I simply plucked an e.g. city pair out of my head), and I'd be the first to acknowledge that your posts
66 aerorobnz : It dawned upon me perhaps 'profitable' DPS flight to NZ management is something like the following. Say they make $100,000 on ticket revenue + lose Fu
67 PA515 : Looks like AKL-DPS will be Wed and Sun. There's enough room in the schedule for an early afternoon departure and mid morning return. Wed and Sun DPS
68 MaverickM11 : NZ loses money on LHR, so they're going to make a lower yield destination like MAN work on a higher unit cost 763 how? And Tahiti is going broke over
69 ZKOJH : Think the network team were throwing ''darts'' at the office door again with this route! ''it was like we only have to wait 2 years before we have the
70 deconz : With the LHR via LAX services all now operated by the 77W I suspect the numbers have improved somewhat from last year when NZ announced they were loo
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