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600th GE90 777 Flies  
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

If my records are correct, C/N 41049 Line No. 992 (a 777-368ER for Saudi Arabian) which had its first flight on Friday was the 600th 777 to fly with the GE90.

That is no small achievent!

For the record, 167 777s have PW4000s and 226 have RR T800s.

GE took the lead (from RR) in 2006 with Line No. 577 (a 777-300ER for JAL) and have never looked back.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7779 times:

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
For the record, 167 777s have PW4000s and 226 have RR T800s.

Where did you get that information? I'm just curious.

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
GE took the lead (from RR) in 2006 with Line No. 577 (a 777-300ER for JAL) and have never looked back.

I guess that is what happens when an engine manufacturer gets exclusivity on an aircraft type (77L, 77W and 77F in this case). Congratulations to GE, anyway.



repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 1):

Where did you get that information? I'm just curious.

There are various sources but the most reliable must be Boeing's own website. Go to:

Boeing Home / Commercial Airplanes / About Commercial Airplanes / Orders and Deliveries / User Defined Reports

And list all 777s delivered to date.


User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7619 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 1):
I guess that is what happens when an engine manufacturer gets exclusivity on an aircraft type (77L, 77W and 77F in this case).



Aren't the A340-500/600 the direct competitors to the 77L and 77W? That are only available with RR engines? I don't want to start a pissing match, but I do have a few questions regarding this...I know GE and Boeing agreed to risk sharing on the 77L and 77W, did Airbus and RR have a similar agreement for the A340-500/600? Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

Anyways, congrats to Boeing and GE.


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7610 times:
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Thanks PM, great statistics again!  

Congratz for GE with this achievement, although I have never understood why the upgrated RR engine (which was even more powerful than the GE90) was not offered......


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7596 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

It's a slightly complicated story but the short answer is 'no'. GE demanded and got exclusivity on the 777NG. RR demanded no such exclusivilty but neither GE nor PW offered an engine for the A340NG.

So GE paid for exclusivity and RR got it for free. But we know who had the last laugh...  


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Aren't the A340-500/600 the direct competitors to the 77L and 77W? That are only available with RR engines? I don't want to start a pissing match, but I do have a few questions regarding this...I know GE and Boeing agreed to risk sharing on the 77L and 77W, did Airbus and RR have a similar agreement for the A340-500/600? Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

Sorry, I didn't intend to be provocative. I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition, whether it be on the Boeing 737 (CFM56/CFM Leap-X), Boeing 77W/L/F (GE90-110/115), Airbus A350-1000 (Rolls Royce Trent XWB) or the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 (IAE V2500). When there is competition between several manufacturers for a sales of engines on a certain aircraft type, there is increased pressure on them to develop performance improvement packages which lower fuelburn aswell as other operating costs for the airlines.

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
RR demanded no such exclusivilty but neither GE nor PW offered an engine for the A340NG.

I believe that the same happened with the A340-200/300; after IAE halted development of their 'Superfan', CFM was the only manufacturer who offered engines for the program. Thus all A340 classics have CFM engines.

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
There are various sources but the most reliable must be Boeing's own website. Go to:

Boeing Home / Commercial Airplanes / About Commercial Airplanes / Orders and Deliveries / User Defined Reports

And list all 777s delivered to date.

Thanks, PM.



repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7416 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
Thus all A340 classics have CFM engines.

Quite similar, yes.

And, let's not forget, apart from the -1000 (and that's a recent development), RR have no official exclusivity on the A350.

(Just de facto exclusivity!      )


User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7370 times:

An astonishing engine! Not going to be too long till it reaches 1000!

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7300 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition

While I generally agree, there are other complicating factors. For GE to foot the development cost of the most powerful turbine engine ever built, they wanted to be completely certain that Boeing was going to make it worth their while.
There WAS competition, it simply began and ended BEFORE the plane was built.
Boeing has publicly stated that they will never offer three engine choices on an airframe again, because of the headaches of offering Pratt, Rolls, and GenE power on the original 777s. Too many choices, too many variables, so it looks like it'll be a max offering of one or the other going forward.

And, GE offered the best product. Or at least, the best set of compromises. The 777-2LR was going to be a niche aircraft from the get-go; there are not enough examples of that bird to warrant any other company going to the expense of making an engine for it. And I don't think anyone foresaw the success of the 777-3ER. Though Boeing's marketing idiots will undoubtedly tell you they did...


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7144 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Boeing has publicly stated that they will never offer three engine choices on an airframe again, because of the headaches of offering Pratt, Rolls, and GenE power on the original 777s. Too many choices, too many variables, so it looks like it'll be a max offering of one or the other going forward.

That is new to me. How long ago was it announced? It sounds risky. If the engine that has exclusivity misses fuel burn targets by too greater margin, like the Pratt & Whitney PW6000 did, customers could/would cancel orders and buy another aircraft type instead.



repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4593 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7106 times:
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Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 4):
Thanks PM, great statistics again!  

I second that.  .

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
And, let's not forget, apart from the -1000 (and that's a recent development), RR have no official exclusivity on the A350

Which we sometimes easily forget, also in discussions here.  .

Quoting GCPET (Reply 8):
An astonishing engine! Not going to be too long till it reaches 1000!

It is a truly phenomenal and remarkable achievement. Credit is due where it is due. Congrats to Boeing and GE for this great result. Just saw an EK B77W close-up at HAM last week. It remains a very impressive and beautiful bird to see.  .


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6728 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition,

In today's environment, this to some degree is irrelevant, engines are not cheap and are a significant investment when purchased, airlines do not change a/c on a 2% improvement of frame and or engine performance, so from the point of engine makers making improvements over time it really only affects new purchases, those who already have the product can expect improvements over time.
Competitions as mentioned by another poster, takes place before the a/c is designed.


User currently offlineco772 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6761 times:

Nothing like hearing the GE90 spool up!

User currently offlineBreninTW From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
It sounds risky. If the engine that has exclusivity misses fuel burn targets by too greater margin, like the Pratt & Whitney PW6000 did, customers could/would cancel orders and buy another aircraft type instead.

That's not what AA737-823 said...

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Boeing has publicly stated that they will never offer three engine choices on an airframe again

Emphasis mine.

Boeing will offer two engines (if available) ... but not three. As on the 787, customers have a choice: RR or GE (no PW offering). For future families of aircraft, PW, GE and RR will be invited to submit designs, and two of the three will get on the aicraft.



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 627 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 12):
Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition,

In today's environment, this to some degree is irrelevant, engines are not cheap and are a significant investment when


You can also argue that competition is somewhat antithetical to pouring development money into a new engine.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2313 times:
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When you consider the financial failure the GE90 was on the 772/77E program (they spent USD 2 billion to develop a brand new engine and came in 3rd of 3 in terms of sales), McNerney convincing the GE board to let him make Boeing a better offer than Rolls or Pratt to win an exclusive paid off quite handsomely.

User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 14):
Emphasis mine.

Boeing will offer two engines (if available) ... but not three. As on the 787, customers have a choice: RR or GE (no PW offering). For future families of aircraft, PW, GE and RR will be invited to submit designs, and two of the three will get on the aicraft.

That makes a lot more sense. Thankyou for clarifying.

Quoting co772 (Reply 13):
Nothing like hearing the GE90 spool up!

   I couldn't agree more  



repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1867 times:
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Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Aren't the A340-500/600 the direct competitors to the 77L and 77W? That are only available with RR engines? I don't want to start a pissing match, but I do have a few questions regarding this...I know GE and Boeing agreed to risk sharing on the 77L and 77W, did Airbus and RR have a similar agreement for the A340-500/600? Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

YES


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