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Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions  
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12527 times:

Very unhappy about this

The scanners will be rolled out at eight international gateway airports in Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney.

The proposed Aviation Security Amendment (Screening) Bill 2012 will make it mandatory for any passenger selected to participate in undergoing a body scan. The "no scan, no fly" amendment closes a loophole in the legislation, which allows passengers to request a pat-down instead of having to pass through a metal detector. Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said mandatory body scans were necessary to ensure the safety of airports.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/a...frfq80-1226262838340#ixzz1lYd7ynnQ


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4161 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12535 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Very unhappy about this

The scanners will be rolled out at eight international gateway airports in Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney.

The proposed Aviation Security Amendment (Screening) Bill 2012 will make it mandatory for any passenger selected to participate in undergoing a body scan. The "no scan, no fly" amendment closes a loophole in the legislation, which allows passengers to request a pat-down instead of having to pass through a metal detector. Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said mandatory body scans were necessary to ensure the safety of airports.

Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12483 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.

Exactly my concern.... I wouldnt travel to anywhere if there was no opt out for a full body search either



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2269 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12457 times:

Too bad Australian legislators are stuck in 1859 and believe everyone is a criminal...

Anyway, I have this to reply to the thread: learn how to dress appropriately for security, following a skit done by The Chaser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3grHjibNdA

Full-Body indeed.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7809 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12440 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.

I'm all for civil rights and against these scanners and all, but isn't this a bit of an overreaction?

Any way, boo to this decision. I'm surprised Australia is doing this. Australia is cool and everyone loves them, who'd want to attack them? 



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinecam747 From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12381 times:

I don't have a problem with this at all. A pat down search is no where near as effective as a full body scan, so of course someone trying to hide something is going to refuse a full body scan. Giving people an option of refusal makes the whole system useless.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.

Really?? I just don't understand this way of thinking. You'd really change your holiday plans on the basis of whether there are body scanners at the airport?..... I really think full body scans are very quickly going to become the norm at airports all around the world, so you'd better get in some travelling now before that happens - or get used to boat travel.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12358 times:
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It's a shame to see knee-jerk reactions like this pushed through from a 'security' angle.

Everytime someone tells me that 'we mustn't let the terrorists win' I point to meaningless actions such as this as proof that it is too late, they have already won.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12350 times:

Does Australia use the Millimeter Wave scanners or the Backscatter X-Ray scanners? I refuse to go through Backscatters because many members of my family are convinced that they give cancer (they're MDs, I'm not - who am I to argue?), but Millimeter Wave scanners aren't much of a problem at all...


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12337 times:

Quoting cam747 (Reply 6):
I don't have a problem with this at all. A pat down search is no where near as effective as a full body scan, so of course someone trying to hide something is going to refuse a full body scan. Giving people an option of refusal makes the whole system useless.

Well at MEM airport I went through the body scanner and had a tissue in my pocket and got a pat down anyway so what good is it. I know a guy who works for the company that developed these body scanners and he wont go through them when he flies.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5616 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12299 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 8):
Does Australia use the Millimeter Wave scanners or the Backscatter X-Ray scanners?

The OP's linked article says "radio wave" scanners. Make of that what you will! Logically you'd assume that there not X-Ray, but with journalists who knows?

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinecam747 From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12261 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 9):
Well at MEM airport I went through the body scanner and had a tissue in my pocket and got a pat down anyway so what good is it. I know a guy who works for the company that developed these body scanners and he wont go through them when he flies.

Did he give a reason as to why he doesn't want to use them?


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12214 times:

I haven't been able to read the bill as it hasn't been introduced and isn't yet posted on Parliament's web site but the newspaper article suggests that scanning will not be mandatory for all passengers (only those selected) and will be installed at international airports. No mention of domestic airports. It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.  

But I await the actual contents of the bill to see what happens. Also be interesting to see if Abbott and the Greens oppose it or whether it gets through on the nod.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12191 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 12):
It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.

I know, that just shows how poorly thought out this is. After all, the 11 September terrorists targetted domestic flights rather than international flights.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 964 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12177 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said mandatory body scans were necessary to ensure the safety of airports.

Safety of airports?? What does the transport minister think of the guy getting airside at Perth and giving VH-QQA a new paint scheme, and being filmed doing it for a YouTube upload?



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12068 times:

So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip... What exactly is thier plan? You can't leave because you're a "security risk", but you can't stay since clearly you're a "security risk" (also visa expires)

User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

The difference between Australians and Americans is Australians roll over for government. Americans would never in a millions years stand for being robbed of the pat down option. The American press would not even call the pat down option a 'loop hole' as has been said here, it is seen as equivalent to the scan. There is much controversy in the US about the radiation from these scanners and effects on health, here, Australians just roll over. They are already being removed in airports in Europe because of safety concerns


Airport scanners that 'strip' passengers naked are banned over fears they cause cancer
EU introduces ban while danger of X-ray machines is fully assessed
Radiation experts first warned of the risks 13 years ago
Millions of passengers forced to pass through scanners worldwide
Manchester told it can use its 16 scanners for another year
Cancer risk highest in the U.S. where there are 250 machines

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-cause-cancer.html#ixzz1lZ1anQCQ


On November 14, 2011 the European Commission banned X-ray body scanners that use "backscatter" technology from airports.The scanners, which are still in use in the United States, project X-ray beams onto your body using ionizing radiation to create a detailed reflection of your body that is displayed on a monitor viewed by a remotely located officer.

http://emf.mercola.com/sites/emf/arc...rope-bans-x-ray-body-scanners.aspx



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4161 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12038 times:

Quoting cam747 (Reply 5):

Yes, yes I would change my holiday plans. The reason is because I object to allowing such an intrusive procedure. I do not consider it fair to impose this and this is my way of showing my displeasure. I do have a choice of where to holiday, and given Australia's rather lengthy and convuluted arrival procedures, i'm not up for putting up with this bullshit on departure too.

Step too far. That's my protest. Sorry if you don't agree.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12005 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 14):
So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip... What exactly is thier plan?


That is an excellent question, and one which again proves that what a half-baked idea this is. Why do governments not think things through before passing these sort of measures.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinebcworld From Australia, joined May 2011, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11962 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.

Yup, in the same way that liquids are only a security concern on international flights. Domestic? Take what you like!


User currently offlinecam747 From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11811 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 16):
Yes, yes I would change my holiday plans. The reason is because I object to allowing such an intrusive procedure. I do not consider it fair to impose this and this is my way of showing my displeasure. I do have a choice of where to holiday, and given Australia's rather lengthy and convuluted arrival procedures, i'm not up for putting up with this bullshit on departure too.

Step too far. That's my protest. Sorry if you don't agree.


Don't apologise - you have the right to protest about any issue you choose. I think its a fairly minor issue and imposition, but if you think its more than that, then hey...protest away.

It's just a shame we won't be able to welcome you back to our fine shores again any time soon.


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11801 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 14):

So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip.

I suppose that you could be detained and interviewed in more private surroundings where you may be offered the opportunity to undergo a strip search. I imagine it is the same as refusing a request to undergo the explosives test: you say no, you don't fly.

Passengers who become argumentative, abusive or physically aggressive can be refused permission to fly, may be arrested by the AFP and charged. This could result in a fine or imprisonment if convicted of an offence. You may additionally be liable for the costs of deportation if you choose to overstay your visa rather than comply with a lawful request. It's all very unpleasant, I agree.

In practice it may be up to the discretion of the security supervisor on duty at the time. Better check-in early so as not to arrive too late at the departure gate.  
Quoting bcworld (Reply 18):
Domestic? Take what you like!

Yes, it doesn't make sense but apparently the decision was made on grounds of a cost/ benefit analysis. The restrictions on liquids at international airports was largely based on requirements for travel in the EU and the US.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2361 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11747 times:

I don't go through these devilish scanners. I not really going to AUS anytime soon anyway, but.... Nah. I'd act like a fool at the checkpoint. I'm not about to be irradiated just to go home.


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11667 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
Exactly my concern.... I wouldnt travel to anywhere if there was no opt out for a full body search either
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 16):
Yes, yes I would change my holiday plans. The reason is because I object to allowing such an intrusive procedure. I do not consider it fair to impose this and this is my way of showing my displeasure. I do have a choice of where to holiday, and given Australia's rather lengthy and convuluted arrival procedures, i'm not up for putting up with this bullshit on departure too

So somebody sees your weiner, I'd much rather that, than be blown out of the sky by a bomb. I think it's too bad that ya'll would want to avoid a great place just because of that. But I totally support your right to feel the way you do and express it, but I personally can care less if they want to see my junk, so be it. I'm not going to change my plans to avoid being body scanned.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 687 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11672 times:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought these scanners only showed metalic items on your body and not your "family jewels" etc? I can't realy see an issue with them and how many times are you likely to get called up even if you are a real frequent flier? And you could also fly into/ out of Darwin as they are not going to get them so if you can handle a LCC from a crap airport there is your answer


mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlinecam747 From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11622 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
So somebody sees your weiner, I'd much rather that, than be blown out of the sky by a bomb. I think it's too bad that ya'll would want to avoid a great place just because of that. But I totally support your right to feel the way you do and express it, but I personally can care less if they want to see my junk, so be it. I'm not going to change my plans to avoid being body scanned.

LOL. They have developed technology so that all the operator sees is a stick figure. No wieners. No boobies. Just stick figures and bombs.  


25 Pellegrine : To me it's not even about that. I'd rather pull my d*** out and show everybody. I'd rather be blown out of the sky. Don't affront my liberties, of wh
26 RWA380 : You are correct, but for those few people whose time hasn't come, if this could change the course of that happening, I'm willing to go with it. Yeah,
27 gemuser : No problem at all. You are forced through the scanner if not going through means you overstay your visa. Otherwise you don't fly. If you are visa exp
28 Pellegrine : Try to put me through the scanner against my will and I will destroy it. What exactly are your Australian goons going to do then? I'm playing devil's
29 koruman : One of the problems will be that Australian airport security use highly simplistic racial profiling. I look kind of Spanish or Italian, and I fly on p
30 Post contains images RWA380 : I'm just curious why you'd be ok with a full body pat down, but not with a machine generated image? I'm not questioning your choice one way or anothe
31 Post contains images BoeingVista : I'm sorry, have we had a large number of attackers who have passed through the pat down process in Australia and gone on to bring down aircraft? or a
32 OzGlobal : Major home grown Islamic plots to kill hundreds have been intercepted in recent years. One or two a year, similar to the UK. Recent immigration has b
33 Pellegrine : I love being physically molested. Actually I don't like this radiation concern. It's very peculiar to me. I don't have problems with natural sources
34 Quokkas : You will miss your flight and the airline will happily let you forfeit your fare. Security will call the AFP and you will receive an all-expenses pai
35 Pellegrine : I don't care about forfeiting a few dollars. I'll make an international incident and embarrass these little Australians. Puppets of the US and China
36 kiwiandrew : Or on the other hand Abbott could oppose it because he thinks it is a stupid and ill thought out idea and the Greens could oppose it for the same rea
37 OzGlobal : You don't seem to understand. Your proclaimed act of damaging the device will result in a criminal prosecution, just as it would in the US or other W
38 RWA380 : LOL, I expected that reply, good for you. No, I totally get what your feeling is best for you, I have always hated the pat downs vs scans or detector
39 QantasA333 : What about at ADL? International and domestic passengers pass through the same security checkpoint. Although, international passengers are required t
40 Post contains images aloges : Al Kyder and Terry Wrist... Thanks for the link!
41 ROSWELL41 : So this proposed policy would only be applied if you were designated for secondary screening such as after setting off a metal detector? Or would it b
42 Quokkas : Going purely on reports in the press, it would appear to be random in much the same way that individuals at present can be selected to undergo an exp
43 ROSWELL41 : I fear too that some governments will slowly attempt to make these scanners the only form of screening. Considering the limitations of these devices,
44 UALWN : And in this regard the 9/11 terrorist have won. Sad.
45 miami1 : Time and time again almost every night on the 6 o'clock news we hear reference to Australia being a " nanny " state , that meaning an over regulated n
46 vhtje : I have a titanium pin in my left leg and I would much rather go through a scanner than be patted down. When I go through the metal detectors the pin i
47 PHLJJS : The tissue was the reason you got the pat down. The body scanner saw an anomaly in your pocket (the tissue) and flagged you for the pat down to find
48 planejamie : Why do people get so worked up over these full body scanners. If you went to the doctor for a lot of X-Rays to be done, you wouldn't complain and it w
49 csavel : So not being up on Australian politics, which Australian politician got wads of ca$h, um down under? After all Michael Chertoff made himself some seri
50 jetfuel : A medical X-Ray might save your life and it is a calculated risk. Being FORCED to be X-rayed is a totally different thing. Imagine people that travel
51 ORDBOSEWR : So a few uninformed questions (sorry, I tried to read all of the posts, but may have missed the answers if already given): What about medical exceptio
52 aeroblogger : False. Going through a lot of X-Rays will most certainly affect you. Perhaps not tomorrow, but in the long run, subjecting yourself to excess ionizin
53 kdhurst380 : This has been the case in the UK since their introduction, and it's going to be happening a lot more in the future. Deal with it.
54 ULMFlyer : I've recently broken my collarbone, which means that, even after getting off the sling, I won't be able to fully raise my left arm for a while. I must
55 Quokkas : Medical exemptions will apply but the final details have not yet been made available because the bill has not been presented to Parliament. What the
56 western727 : Hear, hear. Having a mother who died of cancer last summer, this is a sensitive matter to me. I have been opting out when selected for the x-ray at a
57 planesmith : Amen to that...
58 escapehere : I agree with you strongly about your concerns of radiation with these scanners. However, just FYI, you will most likely get more radiation exposure f
59 Post contains images escapehere : It depends on your age, but these kind of cancers can sometimes take 20-30 years to appear. The risk is very low, but there is absolutely a risk so y
60 TheRedBaron : ok AUSTRALIA off the list... from my places to go now.
61 gemuser : Plastic shackales work pretty well. If you actually damaged the machine it would, of itself, be a terrorist act. 25-35 years in prison would be the r
62 ORDBOSEWR : I was simply asking if the originating flights from countries other than Australia will have to adhere to this policy. Thereby creating additional re
63 shamrock604 : Funny that, because I have flown several hundred times, never had anyone see "my weiner" and still have not been blown out of the sky by a bomb!!!! O
64 Wsp : There are billions to be made from all that high-tech that is being rolled out to control travel, communications and ultimately every aspect of life.
65 shamrock604 : I completely agree with you about the billions being spent on security hardware - but, I stand by my comment that it is a far cheaper option for gove
66 Ruscoe : I presume there will continue to be Medical Exemptions for pacemakers etc???? Ruscoe
67 bcworld : That doesn't quite add up. If Australia is just towing the line why do it's liquid regs go further than the EU rules? I'm talking about secondary liq
68 bcworld : I travel domestically in Australia all the time without ever showing any ID.
69 Post contains links rduddji : That is completely untrue. The full body scanners have been proven to be easy to trick. In fact the US Congress described them as: "easily thwarted".
70 markcaine : Hi. My first post on A.net and probably going to get some stick for it. I work in the field of security and you normally get two arguments when people
71 shamrock604 : Those "Do gooders" as you call them were people who founded democracy and ensured that it is the people who run a country and not a rogue government.
72 HAWAIIAN932 : Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I live in LAS and have had the body scan done to me when taking flights to SEA and ONT. I just do what the
73 Wsp : But that accepts the narrative that additional assessments are needed or effective.
74 deconz : Hmmmmm so secondary screening like the US have enforced on all direct flights TO the USA from abroad isn't the same sort of thing in reverse? Come of
75 JonasJ : The problem with doses when talking about radiation is that you most often give the effective dose which give you an estimate on the risk of cancer of
76 sydscott : I like to think of it more as common sense. The Government has taken the approach that if we properly screen people coming into Australia then we do
77 shamrock604 : Not necessarily - i'm merely accepting the narrative that Government will make attempts at a security regime, and have therefore gone for the cheaper
78 markcaine : They don't have right to strip search you. Ok I frisk you and I believe your carrying drugs or weapons down your pants. You wouldn't leave the search
79 fiscal : I don't think that is accurate, it is a family joke that I always get the explosives check on leaving Perth, and I do not have any Middle Eastern, or
80 Post contains images shamrock604 : Yeah, that is very true - but there are limits to how I am going to allow you to exercise that invasion, and those limits are, or at least should be,
81 Post contains images markcaine : Well not necessary what they were brought in for but if used correctly you can do security and customs jobs in one swoop. I'm not disagreeing with yo
82 cmf : I am not defending and definitely not endorsing everything about how security is handled but your choices are following the rules or not fly. Again,
83 shamrock604 : Says who? I dont buy this arguement at all - again we are going back to who really runs or owns a country. It is, or so we are told, us - therefore i
84 md80fanatic : Every once in a while a cow will decide to jump the fence at a slaughterhouse and for it's bravery it's almost always awarded a long and happy life in
85 cmf : It is democracy. You have the right to work on getting enough people to support you to have it changed. But as long as they are in place your options
86 shamrock604 : Getting what changed? There is NO law mandating the body scanning of passengers currently in force. Until there is such legislation, all we have is a
87 einsteinboricua : And the moment when somebody detonates a bomb on a flight, people will be begging for these scanners to be implemented at every airport. If it's in th
88 dc9northwest : New York Times, 2021: In the name of security, the US government has decided to ground all flights indefinitely. The UK, Japan, EU and Australian gov
89 Av8tor : Great Idea. Every country should have the same rules.
90 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Instead of trying to stop terrorism as it happens, why don't we remove the incentives for terrorism? No? Ok I'll leave now...
91 mariner : Australia wasn't founded as a democracy. Some would argue that it only pays lip-service to democracy now. In many ways, Australia is still run like a
92 gemuser : And every other state except for South Australia! Gemuser
93 Post contains images mariner : Yeh, but youse blokes came late to the party. When the First Fleet arrived it was all NSW, there was no South Australia until 1834. mariner
94 777ER : Thats the same experience I had in DTW last year. Apparantly I had a piece of paper in my pocket and got a very intrusive pat down as a result when n
95 SA7700 : This thread will be locked is it has been steered into an off-topic debate about convict Australia. Any posts added after the thread lock will be remo
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