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Northwest Orient's 707-351Bs With Cargo Doors.  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 579 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Northwest Orient had a fleet of 10 Boeing 707-351Bs. Half the fleet had cargo doors.
These planes at one time carried cargo in the front section while the rear was for passengers.
What was the purpose of putting a cargo door on a 351B when Northwest Orient had a fleet
351Cs which they could have had a cargo/passenger combo on a C model. When did NWA retire their
last Boeing 707?

4 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

I believe the -351Bs with the cargo doors were delivered about a year or so before the C models were available. From what I remember, NW took these planes in 1962, and the C model did not come off the production line until 63 or 64.

The combi NW -351Bs lacked the "hat rack" exits just aft of the wing found on the true C models. Also, in the original NW configuration, the combi -351Bs had a compartment permanently walled off for cargo on the left forward side of the cabin from the entry door aft to about the wing leading edge, with normal rows of FC seats on the RH side of the forward cabin opposite that compartment. Later true C models could be configured as combis, but not in the same manner -- there was a normal style, movable bulkhead that separated cargo from passenger in the case of the C model operating as a combi.

[Edited 2012-02-05 18:41:20]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 1):
From what I remember, NW took these planes in 1962, and the C model did not come off the production line until 63 or 64.

The -351Bs were delivered between June and October 1963. NW's first -351C was delivered April 1964. Boeing orders/delliveries data shows the first 707-320C delivered to Pan Am on May 2, 1963, so the NW -351Bs seem to overlap the true C models.

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 1):
The combi NW -351Bs lacked the "hat rack" exits just aft of the wing found on the true C models. Also, in the original NW configuration, the combi -351Bs had a compartment permanently walled off for cargo on the left forward side of the cabin from the entry door aft to about the wing leading edge, with normal rows of FC seats on the RH side of the forward cabin opposite that compartment. Later true C models could be configured as combis, but not in the same manner -- there was a normal style, movable bulkhead that separated cargo from passenger in the case of the C model operating as a combi.

The 5 NW -351Bs with cargo door also lacked the additional emergency exits just behind the rear edge of the wing that are part of the standard -C configuration. That requires that the standard overwing exits be within the passenger compartment. They also lacked the additional sections of leading edge flaps inboard of number 2 and 3 engines that all -Cs (and Advanced -Bs) have. And they of course lack all the structural strengthening of the -C.

Those 5 NW -351Bs with cargo door were certainly the oddballs of the 707 line.

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
When did NWA retire their
last Boeing 707?

Retirement years of NW's 36 707s:

1971 - 3 (3 of the 5 -Bs)
1972 - 4 (including the other 2 -Bs)
1973 - 6
1974 - 8
1975 - 6
1976 - 1
1977 - 6
1978 - 2 (August and September)

12 of NW's 707s went to Cathay Pacific, including 4 of the 5 -351Bs (the other -B went to China Airlines).


User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

wait a minute, None of NWA's 351Bs had the ventral fins found on non-advanced 300B models.

User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Quoting doulasc (Reply 3):
wait a minute, None of NWA's 351Bs had the ventral fins found on non-advanced 300B models.

Only the first few non advanced -320Bs off the production line had those ventral fins. Not sure how many were built that way but only a handful. Pan Am, TWA, Lufthansa and Air France were the only airlines who flew them. In the case of LH and AF, they later removed the ventral fins. PA and TW kept those first deliveries flying with the ventral fins for the duration.

Viscount724 says that the NW deliveries were in 1963, and I'm fairly certain that the ventral fins were only present on 1962 -320B deliveries. Once the more advanced leading edge flaps were installed, Boeing realized they no longer needed the ventral fin.


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