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Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks  
User currently offlineairnorth From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 23952 times:
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I stumbled across this a couple minutes ago, and couldnt find it posted yet.
If it has been posted sorry for the dupe, and please delete. I think this is the first A380 to be grounded due to cracks?


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/world...Fqantas-grounds-a380-28222693.html

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/n...found/story-fn32891l-1226265336961

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 23620 times:

Doesn't this just mean that they have taken it out of service to be repaired? Which i'd assume to be normal practise as access would be a little diffecult at 30,000 feet

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 23626 times:

No it isn't, it's spot on.
The plane is grounded.
So that they can repair cracks.

Dramatic or not, 'tis the scenario they're facing.

If the repairs are causing the airplane to miss scheduled flights, then the plane is "GROUNDED."
Bummer.

[Edited 2012-02-08 00:43:21 by SA7700]

User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 23310 times:

Any idea which flights have been affected by this grounding? I'm flying QF11 SYD-LAX in ~ 2 weeks so hopefully not that one!

User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3790 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 23288 times:

Why all the shield raising?

It IS grounded...
Others have been already, more will be for sure until the issue is fixed.
It's good news ya know.

This is probably the silver lining of the QF engine mishap. The issue got detected early thanks to it.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 22860 times:

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 6):
Any idea which flights have been affected by this grounding? I'm flying QF11 SYD-LAX in ~ 2 weeks so hopefully not that one!

If I am not mistaken I believe the SYD-LAX services are affected... Will confirm...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 22779 times:

An airplane got grounded after a mandatory inspection found something. I praise Airbus and Qantas for having inspections that found a legitimate problem. That's a good thing.

Airplanes going Out of Service due to cracks is relatively common in the aviation world. Structural components do have problems. Usually it is fatigue related and found on heavy checks after 10+ years in operation. However problems in production that require inspections do happen on all fleets.

This isn't a whole lot different then Boeing finding delamination on one 787 and tracking it down to a manufacturing process. In both cases, a problem one airplane led to inspections of the fleet. When they find something, it will get fixed. There is a structural repair manual for a reason.

I would not expect it to be out of service for more than a few days unless serious rework is required. The fact that this made news is because it is an airplane that gets a lot of attention being operated by an airline that gets a lot of attention. Odds are that there are other airplanes grounded in the world due to cracks found during an inspection, however no one would pay attention to AA grounding an MD80 due to cracks or LH grounding a 733 due to cracks. No one would likely even care either.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3123 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 22759 times:

Interestingly enough the aircraft that is out of service was also the one involved in the severe turbulenece incident over India early last month. The Engineers say that incident and what has been found aren't linked but it's an interesting link nonetheless considering this A380 is one of the more recent deliveries to QF. (January 2010).

It'll also be interesting to see what Airbus says considering these cracks, and the one's found on other operators A380's, aren't the same even though they both effect the wing. Maybe there is a manufacturing process at Airbus which needs to be looked at and revised?


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 22618 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 11):

It'll also be interesting to see what Airbus says considering these cracks, and the one's found on other operators A380's, aren't the same even though they both effect the wing. Maybe there is a manufacturing process at Airbus which needs to be looked at and revised?

I have no doubt that their quality investigations group is analyzing the problem and researching what led to the manufacturing defect and fixing the problem. It's a well established process that is used to work such problems. It happens even on mature designs where cracks suddenly start appearing where they had not been before. There are engineers who specialize in getting down to the detail of what causes the problems and what corrective action is taken.

Part of maintaining a production certificate requires such an investigative group. I'm sure they'll fix it and find route cause. They always do.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9159 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 22481 times:

Quoting airnorth (Thread starter):
I think this is the first A380 to be grounded due to cracks?

Every transport aircraft is normally "grounded" after each flight, until it is released for its next flight. The "dumb" public/media have little idea of how the process works, so they think this is something different.

Any sort of maintenance work, be it an oil uplift, refuel, computer reset, wheel change, ramp rash etc all needs to be written up, and cleared before the aircraft is released. Same with this, this aircraft was already undergoing a schedule inspections/check, it was not about to go anywhere. It was already "grounded" before they found these cracks.

Fact is until an aircraft is actually released for its next service, which maybe only 10-15 min before pushback in many cases, it is technically always "grounded".



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineQF340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22365 times:

grounded... what a BS... my god, how are they supposed to do the repairworks as instructed by Airbus??? In the air? While taxiing? These journalists need a proper editor next to them!

So what about SQ having grounded 6 (or so) of their A380 fleet for repairworks? Or Emirates? Nothing about grounding here in the news... are they doing it midlight??????  

come on, stop bashing QF for doing their JOB!!!

Conspiracy theory: Was the journalist paid by the unions?


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22332 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):

Fact is until an aircraft is actually released for its next service, which maybe only 10-15 min before pushback in many cases, it is technically always "grounded".

Yes the common industry terms for it are AOG "Aircraft on Ground" or OTS "Out of Service". I think they are referring to this since an airplane is not considered AOG or OTS during scheduled maintenance. AOG and OTS are for unscheduled maintenance and are metrics closely watched by airlines since they can impact the operation. If the airplane is "grounded" for scheduled maintenance, then that doesn't impact the schedule or operation since that airplane is scheduled to be on the ground just as other are scheduled for flights.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 22301 times:

I REALLY fail to understand why members on this site get so defensive over a freakin' airplane. Get over it...pronto. This isn't an isolated incident either...this happens on every Airbus and Boeing thread. It got old 10 years ago.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):
An airplane got grounded after a mandatory inspection found something. I praise Airbus and Qantas for having inspections that found a legitimate problem. That's a good thing.

Thank you for attempting to bring some form of common sense to the thread.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 7):
This is probably the silver lining of the QF engine mishap. The issue got detected early thanks to it.

This was my initial thought as well when the information regarding cracks first surfaced.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21531 times:

The A380 is just having a little teething problem, all these wing problem will get solved.

User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3123 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21374 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 17):
This was my initial thought as well when the information regarding cracks first surfaced.

It's interesting though that according to QF none of their A380's are effected by the cracks that have been found on SQ and EK A380's. So there could be two different, but obviously related, manufacturing or assembly problems which Airbus is no doubt looking at right now regarding the A380 wings.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
Part of maintaining a production certificate requires such an investigative group. I'm sure they'll fix it and find route cause. They always do.

Indeed. It'll be interesting to see how many A380's are effected and by which identified cracking problem.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21332 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 18):
The A380 is just having a little teething problem, all these wing problem will get solved.

Agreed... But it's the A380 remember and anything revolving around the A380 hits the headlines just like any QF incidents...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21218 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 19):
It's interesting though that according to QF none of their A380's are effected by the cracks that have been found on SQ and EK A380's.

You may be right. I recall reading that somewhere on the internet (can't remember where or when), but I can't verify it.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineglideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21180 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20):
Agreed... But it's the A380 remember and anything revolving around the A380 hits the headlines just like any QF incidents...

Quite so. One would hope to see an end some day.  



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlinenotaxonrotax From Ecuador, joined Mar 2011, 488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 20925 times:
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Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):
An airplane got grounded after a mandatory inspection found something. I praise Airbus and Qantas for having inspections that found a legitimate problem. That's a good thing.

Definitely! Isn´t it great that "we" find these things beforehand!??
Look at the safety-record of B777 & A340……..and many other modern jets (with some fatal crashes perhaps); isn´t it amazing how pro-active this industry has become!?

Kudos, "ground" A380, ground B787, A350, B797, A360 and whatever else I may see in my lifetime………at the end of the day it leads to an increased safety for ourselves; the billions of people which partially consists of crew, and oh so many yearly passengers.


No Tax On Rotax



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User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 20527 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
If I am not mistaken I believe the SYD-LAX services are affected... Will confirm...

That's annoying - I've got the prized 80A and my mate is in the second-prized 71D 

Any more udpates?


User currently offlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 20434 times:
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Yet another spate of QF bashing , when will the Aussie media grow a brain and get over this Qantas fixation. Perhaps they need to here that this type of thing is common within the ENTIRE airline indusrty and not only Qantas.

Mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9159 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19551 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):


Exactly, if the aircraft is undergoing scheduled maintenance, this is nothing more than a beat up. I suspect what is driving this is the QF mechanics union, still trying to push for an A380 maintenance facility in house. QF have already said that A380 heavy maintenance is being outsourced, and with the planned removal of the 767 and 747 fleets, closing of their engine repair facility, and outsourcing 787 maintenance means the number of mechanics QF will needs in the future will reduce.

In my view this is nothing more than trying to get public support/pressure on QF management to build the A380 facility so the QF mechanics have job security.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 14):

The A380 is just having a little teething problem, all these wing problem will get solved.

This would have nothing really to do with the airraft being an A380, or the airline being QF. QF would have found and repaired cracks on every aircraft in thir fleet. They are normally found on schedule checks like this.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 18959 times:
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Quoting zeke (Reply 22):
if the aircraft is undergoing scheduled maintenance

Just how often do A380's get detailed wing-rib assembly maintenance as "regular maintenance?"

Seems this A380 has had two wing inspections in 4 weeks, one as "routine checks after the turbulence incident," and the other as ""additional precautionary inspections" on the wings at Airbus' request."

While we all laud both Airbus and Qantas for their attention to the safety of their passengers, it is a silly to say this was "scheduled maintenance."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/qantas-grounds...inding-cracks-wings-013730967.html


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17948 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 20):

SYD - LAX flights are effected with todays QF011 sub with a B744 VH-OEF...
QF011 on 9/02/12 will be an A380 VH-OQL...& just adding to the discussion aircraft under going checks is VH-OQK...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17103 times:

Quoting QF340500 (Reply 11):
Conspiracy theory: Was the journalist paid by the unions?

Probably. Given then amount of bad press Qantas gets about this and other issues, they've either upset someone highly influential in the media circles or the journalists are on the take from unions.

When it comes to maintenance and the media in this country, Qantas are damned if they do, damned if they don't and if this had happened to Virgin it would have barely gotten a mention. As someone mentioned earlier, this is a silver lining from tha QF 31 incident.


25 N14AZ : Airbus said they have analysed this problem and will or have already changed the production accordingly. So I would think that all A 380s built until
26 Ruscoe : Can anyone clarify if these are type 1 or 2 cracks that are being repaired. Based only on what i have read on A-Net changing the production process wi
27 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : German press is reporting that ALL Qantas A380s have been grounded pending further inspections: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/0,1518,81
28 Post contains links N14AZ : aero.de is now reporting that QF has stopped all A 380-flights. Is that true? http://www.aero.de/news-14431/Qantas-stoppt-alle-A380-Fluege.html
29 Post contains links dynamicsguy : From the The Age:
30 EK413 : All QF A380 services are operating as per normal ops except for the QF011 which was downgraded to a B744ER VH-OEF... Tonight's QF031 VH-OQE service h
31 EK413 : Type 1 cracks... EK413
32 Post contains links standby87 : Confusion in Europe this morning. N14AZ is correct: German and Swiss Press are reporting ALL QF A380s are grounded eg. http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/s
33 QF340500 : EASA has just announced that they may put out an airworthiness directive to check ALL A380 wings on cracks, not only the one with more cycles. Nothing
34 PlaneInsomniac : These reports all seem to go back to a news agency called dapd. It is possible they just got it wrong. I tend to believe our Australian members in th
35 lhr380 : Nothing on any of the mainstream news outlets
36 EK413 : Unlike other A380 cracks – This type of cracking is different from the ‘type two’ cracking found on certain A380s in the global fleet, now the
37 N14AZ : So are we now talking about a "type three" cracking?
38 Post contains links N14AZ : Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16942361
39 Post contains images EPA001 : Maybe, the data is not detailed enough at this point in time. . I read that this morning as well. Good to hear that it is only 1 aircraft. But still,
40 EK413 : As far I know it QF A380's are not affected... The report isn't detailed enough to explain the severity of the crack issue's... Just to clear the air
41 SKAirbus : Glad to see that Airbus are so proactive in identifying and fixing these issues. Just a pity that the press are overanalysing this as per usual. I bet
42 Bralo20 : Sure about that? I've heard that it was VH-OQF which was grounded? OQF vs OQK is quite a big difference, the first one is a 3yo bird while the other
43 Flying Belgian : It seems now very likely that the European Authorities will extend its request for inspections to ALL A380 on duty. AESA was cited by Reuters today an
44 EK413 : Correction... The aircraft is VH-OQF thanks for pointing that out... EK413
45 Daysleeper : I’m confused as to why this is any different to the checks and repairs other A380 operators have done. The BBC state that its expected back into ser
46 Post contains links NAV20 : Confirmed by EASA that inspections of all A380s in service will be required; using electrical H/F equipment instead of just visual inspections:- "Fou
47 Post contains links NAV20 : Sorry, link didn't post and now I can't edit either. Same story here:- http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...f-wings-cracks-regulator-says.html
48 jetfuel : The cracks really are a lot more serious than first suspected..... I do hope that the entire fleets are not grounded
49 EK413 : 1) Airbus 2) QF Any of the 2 grabs the media attention... It's already been stated VH-OQF will return to service in less than a week... EK413
50 zeke : Whenever the maintenance schedule calls for it. This is a response to an operational event, severe turbulence, hard landing, rejected takeoff, overwe
51 N14AZ : So in other words Airbus will have to organize and pay for the works required for the permanent solution for 67 A 380s (plus maybe every A 380 they d
52 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Sorry, can't resist it - looks like we can all start blaming the Welsh! "Referring to the looming EASA statement, an Airbus spokesperson said: "This i
53 Post contains images EPA001 : It already did, or did you missed that? .
54 Post contains links FN1001 : A well known german website announced this morning that _all_ A380 from Qantas would be taken out of service due to these problems, but now they corre
55 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : It already does have it's own share of teething troubles.
56 esdex : Sorry, just wanting to clarify here. How many B777s have been grounded due to structural cracks? No one doubts that the A380 has a long life in front
57 PanAm1971 : That brilliant recovery by the Qantas crew will wind saving many hundreds of lives beyond the hundreds that were aboard their aircraft. I'm glad prid
58 francoflier : Brilliant recovery indeed, but I doubt this issue would have resulted in an serious accident. I believe it *might* have led to the brackets failing,
59 pygmalion : lets clear up some wording though. This is an AD (airworthiness directive) and as for the early inspections it is unscheduled and therefore those airp
60 zeke : That is not correct. The QF aircraft were not covered by the AD by serial number.
61 Post contains links NAV20 : EASA have set pretty tight timetables for aeroplanes that have flown a lot, pygmalion. Over 1,384 flight cycles, within three weeks; close to that fi
62 scbriml : No, I think you've got that wrong. It doesn't specify when the repair must be implemented, just that Airbus must be contacted before the next flight
63 Post contains links NAV20 : Obviously you could be right, scrimbl. But it occurs to me that the 'compliance time' for a given aircraft could well depend to an extent on the numb
64 MilesDependent : I noticed today's QF 11 was downgraded to a 744. So I guess things not quite back to normal yet?
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