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What Is JAL's 'Plan B' For NRT-BOS?  
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11266 times:

Let's say the 787 can't go by April 22, for whatever reason, on the much-ballyhooed NRT-Boston run.

Do they:

Postpone start of service?
Use a 773?
Tag Boston onto another flight, say, NRT-ORD?



[Edited 2012-02-07 18:51:30]

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11106 times:

No accouncement from JAL at the moment.

More than likely a postponement.
Unlike, NH, JAL really isn't flush with extra widebody aircraft at the moment.
Their fleet of 13 773ERs are pretty much accounted for on flying their trunk routes like NRT-LHR, CDG, FRA, JFK, LAX & ORD. They could use the two remaining 773ERs on the NRT-BOS but that means no spare aircraft. Probably not the best option considering it would affect their other main services is something irregular happens.
Then there are the 11 772ERs of which 8 are fitted with crew rests. Three are needed to fly the HND-CDG & SFO runs. The other five fly NRT-BOM, DME & Asia missions and they could take them off those runs as a possibility.

Hopefully, Boeing can get the GE-powered 787 certified and delivered to JAL by end of March. Otherwise, the April 22 start-up will be in jeopardy.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10926 times:

Postponement seems like the best option, as much as I'd like to see a 787 for the time being. As long as they start the route, I don't care when they do, but I want to see it as soon as possible.


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User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8493 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10351 times:

I'm not sure posponment is a great idea considering the amount of publicity that's been unleashed for Boston's first non-stop service to Asia. This route is a huge deal around here. I'm not sure what they would do though but there are options. Has there been a precendent like this before?

Quoting carpethead (Reply 1):
Unlike, NH, JAL really isn't flush with extra widebody aircraft at the moment.

BOS-NRT will start 4x weekly service only. That should allow them to sub for a spare 772/3ER.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10310 times:

Well, the selfish side of me wouldn't mind seeing a delay of a few days because I'm scheduled to be at a big Defense/Security trade show in Baltimore from the 22nd through the week!

I've never met the great spotting community at Logan, but I would certainly love to be there for the first JAL 787 if it happens a week or so later than scheduled! Great bunch of people who crank out fabulous photos and astounding videos.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10285 times:
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A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.

I expect they'll use a 777-200ER.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10252 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.

I expect they'll use a 777-200ER.

I agree   

The 773 might be OK for a 'tag-on' flight, but then it's not a non-stop anymore. People who've already booked the flights won't like a stop along the way when they didn't expect one.


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1640 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10029 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 1):
The other five fly NRT-BOM, DME & Asia missions and they could take them off those runs as a possibility.

I'm assuming BOM and the Asia mission ones can be subbed out for one of the aircraft that don't have crew rests to free a couple of 772s if need be? Or are the non crew rest 772s the domestically configured cattle trucks?



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8493 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9985 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.

No doubt but JL's 773ER's have about the same number of seats as their 772ER's due to the low density configuration of their 773ER's. So what's worse, send a 773ER and sell a bunch of low "introductory" fares just to break even until the 788 is available, or pospone the service and have to rebook or reimburse everyone who has already booked, plus penalties? Don't forget that for the first year JL is getting significant incentives from Massport so the break even point for the route is less than "normal". If capacity is too great there's also the option of operating the route only 5x weekly instead of the planned increase to daily.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

If JAL amends their plan for this route, about how much advance notice do you all think they are obligated to give...a month?

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9823 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 9):
If JAL amends their plan for this route, about how much advance notice do you all think they are obligated to give...a month?

They aren't obligated to give any advance notice at all.

As long as they pay the due compensation, they can cancel 5 minutes before scheduled start if they want to.

That would be terrible PR and they would never do that, but it's an option...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9818 times:

Aside from not knowing a 787 from a bottle of milk, Boston Mayor Menino would likely shriek with howls of protest (along the lines of, "How DARE JAL do this to ME!").

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9682 times:
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JAL would probably launch the route with a 77W and then rotate in whatever 777 is available until the 787 can operate the flight. JAL has been waiting to fly to Boston since 1992.

User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9372 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 11):
Aside from not knowing a 787 from a bottle of milk, Boston Mayor Menino would likely shriek with howls of protest (along the lines of, "How DARE JAL do this to ME!").

He'd say that alright, but you'd never really fully understand what came out of Mayor Mumbles mouth!



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9141 times:

I would probably agree, most will not know the difference between the 787 and 772, as an armchair CEO i would go that route.

User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 4):
Well, the selfish side of me wouldn't mind seeing a delay of a few days because I'm scheduled to be at a big Defense/Security trade show in Baltimore from the 22nd through the week!

I've never met the great spotting community at Logan, but I would certainly love to be there for the first JAL 787 if it happens a week or so later than scheduled! Great bunch of people who crank out fabulous photos and astounding videos.

I agree those photos from Boston are some of the best ones on the site IMO. With the flights to Boston so cheap from Baltimore hopefully i can take a day off work to go see her first arrival!



RUSH
User currently offlineSpunker From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8316 times:

Still hoping for the 787 on 4/22 but who know's what will transpire. Everyone come up and see us there are a multitude of places to spot around Logan. Here's our group
http://www.meetup.com/BostonAirlinerSpotters/
gene


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8241 times:
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Given ATI with AA, can AA fly the route with a 767 or 772 until JAL's 787s arrive?

User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7797 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 17):

767 doesn't have the legs. Does AA have any 772s to spare?

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7599 times:
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Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 18):
Does AA have any 772s to spare?

Don't know for sure.
ORD-DEL will be ending so that's two and the first 77Ws will be flying DFW-GRU so there's another one and eventually two more 772s that will become available. However, not sure if they will be needed to replace outgoing 767s on some routes, or if those aircraft have already been allocated to other routes, or if AA has plans to start refurbs on it's 772s once the 77Ws start arriving.

Maybe someone else has more details on aircraft utilization with the schedule changes and declined leases.

I'm thinking the most likely outcome will be JAL postponing the start of the flight.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.

What's JL's configuration on the 787-8? Their longhaul 4-class 77Ws only have 246 or 272 seats depending on configuration.
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/aircraft/conf/777.html

Many carriers have that many, and often far more, seats on much smaller aircraft. For example, KLM's A332s haved 243 seats and their new A333s have 292.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6305 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
What's JL's configuration on the 787-8?

Looks to be 42J and 144Y for a total of 186 for the initial service to Boston.

[Edited 2012-02-08 18:24:43]

User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

Quoting Spunker (Reply 16):
Still hoping for the 787 on 4/22 but who know's what will transpire. Everyone come up and see us there are a multitude of places to spot around Logan. Here's our group
http://www.meetup.com/BostonAirliner...ters/

Best people I've never met.

I want to spend a day with these people as they shot videos and photos around Logan. The stuff they come up with is awesome. Their YouTube channels are brilliant...well-shot, accompanied by music...the whole nine yards. I'm going to make a vow to myself to meet up with them this spring.


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6114 times:

The funniest thing would be if a 77E is subbed, and when a newspaper publishes a photo of it calling it a 787.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6082 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 23):
The funniest thing would be if a 77E is subbed, and when a newspaper publishes a photo of it calling it a 787.

Well, if a 777 comes in initially followed by the 787, it'll give the fire crews two opportunities to spray water & have fun...once for the debut of JAL in Boston and the second one for the debut of the 787.  


25 chrisnh : Very pleased to hear that JAL will open up San Diego-Narita with the 787 as well. I'm pleased because the 787 was conceived as a plane that would open
26 Post contains links BOStonsox : JL used to do fifth-freedom flights from Brazil to JFK and LAX. I asked in the thread if that was possible for the BOS flights and was told that whil
27 MAV88 : Does anyone know how bookings are looking on NRT-BOS? I don't think filling a plane from BOS to South America would be tough at all, especially to Bra
28 chrisnh : That link would have been a terrific one to look at, but it's a dead-end. But you look at some of the Boston-area communities...Framingham, for exampl
29 airbazar : It will never happen because of the need to clear customs and immigration for connecting passengers at BOS. I think there's demand and money to be ma
30 BOStonsox : Was it a bum link? It's a powerpoint. Check your computer settings to see if it's blocking it from opening, it should open, it might take a while. No
31 chrisnh : Yes, you are right. It is a PPT doc that I was able to download but my 2011 version of Powerpoint won't open it. I will keep trying. I have a MacBook
32 aklrno : 787 is much faster. The typical bottle of milk won't go bad until several days after it is manufactured.
33 Post contains links aeroblogger : here's the actual link: http://www.massvacation.com/governor...ce/2011/presentations/massport.ppt As for the list, AI was studying BOS-DEL-BOM on the
34 Post contains images SANFan : I'm trying to figure out whether or not the announcement of SAN and HEL (being discussed on a separate thread) gives us any insight as to the arrival
35 MAV88 : Looks like Massport is going to make connecting via Logan easier. They have now have plans for a post security connector from Terminal E over to Termi
36 BOStonsox : Not to mention transfering B6's own international flights to its domestic ones. There already is a hallway from what was Terminal D to Terminal E, so
37 airbazar : Is there a link with this news or project details? This would be awesome. Keep in mind that B6 and LH also have a code share agreement.
38 airportugal310 : As well as EI, if I am not mistaken Edit: I lied...I think its only though JFK[Edited 2012-02-18 22:33:06]
39 BOStonsox : It's only a one-way deal. LH puts its code on B6 flights from BOS and JFK. Nope, it's just interline with EI and it's through both BOS and JFK. We se
40 chrisnh : It will be quite the day when that first JAL 787 touches down at Logan. I the first revenue flight NRT-BOS or BOS-NRT? I would imagine NRT-BOS since
41 chrisnh : Also, I read somewhere that Boeing will send one of their tour 787s to Logan on March 4. Is that confirmed?
42 jcarv : Yes it is confirmed. Arriving March 4th for event and leaving March 5.
43 BOStonsox : I would imagine the same. Oh, cool! That's a Sunday, so I'll have to go see it if I'm not busy.
44 KC135TopBoom : Fortunately Mayor Mumbles has nothing to do or say about BOS. Logan International Airport (BOS) is owned by MASSPORT, a state agency.
45 ChrisNH : Well, sharp observers will recall how 'Loud' Mumbles got several years ago when Hainan Airways was 'considering' Boston as a destination. The Honorab
46 Post contains links MAV88 : http://www.massport.com/doing-busine...Programs/detail.aspx?proj=L1129-C2
47 tharanga : won't those pax get dumped outside the secure area after they clear customs, though? an airside connection wouldn't help them. that makes it sound li
48 BOStonsox : Hmm. Good point. I wonder if that will be changing soon. It would be great if it was. At least it works when going the other way.
49 Post contains images airportugal310 : Doesn't matter really...he's the first one to welcome you to Logan when you walk through the Terminal C walkway to/from the parking garage Via record
50 jcarv : Tentatively it's a 0900 arrival.
51 Post contains images bomber996 : Wouldn't this save you from transferring terminals via walking or bus? You could just check back in through security at E and then walk to C all insi
52 Post contains links AA94 : Hey SANFan, you might want to take a look at http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201202/002028.html. The dates are still vague-ish, but JAL says that N
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