carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2769 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 10008 times:
No accouncement from JAL at the moment.
More than likely a postponement.
Unlike, NH, JAL really isn't flush with extra widebody aircraft at the moment.
Their fleet of 13 773ERs are pretty much accounted for on flying their trunk routes like NRT-LHR, CDG, FRA, JFK, LAX & ORD. They could use the two remaining 773ERs on the NRT-BOS but that means no spare aircraft. Probably not the best option considering it would affect their other main services is something irregular happens.
Then there are the 11 772ERs of which 8 are fitted with crew rests. Three are needed to fly the HND-CDG & SFO runs. The other five fly NRT-BOM, DME & Asia missions and they could take them off those runs as a possibility.
Hopefully, Boeing can get the GE-powered 787 certified and delivered to JAL by end of March. Otherwise, the April 22 start-up will be in jeopardy.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9828 times:
Postponement seems like the best option, as much as I'd like to see a 787 for the time being. As long as they start the route, I don't care when they do, but I want to see it as soon as possible.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6869 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9253 times:
I'm not sure posponment is a great idea considering the amount of publicity that's been unleashed for Boston's first non-stop service to Asia. This route is a huge deal around here. I'm not sure what they would do though but there are options. Has there been a precendent like this before?
Quoting carpethead (Reply 1): Unlike, NH, JAL really isn't flush with extra widebody aircraft at the moment.
BOS-NRT will start 4x weekly service only. That should allow them to sub for a spare 772/3ER.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9212 times:
Well, the selfish side of me wouldn't mind seeing a delay of a few days because I'm scheduled to be at a big Defense/Security trade show in Baltimore from the 22nd through the week!
I've never met the great spotting community at Logan, but I would certainly love to be there for the first JAL 787 if it happens a week or so later than scheduled! Great bunch of people who crank out fabulous photos and astounding videos.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26685 posts, RR: 83 Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9187 times:
A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9154 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5): A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.
I expect they'll use a 777-200ER.
I agree
The 773 might be OK for a 'tag-on' flight, but then it's not a non-stop anymore. People who've already booked the flights won't like a stop along the way when they didn't expect one.
sq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1583 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8931 times:
Quoting carpethead (Reply 1): The other five fly NRT-BOM, DME & Asia missions and they could take them off those runs as a possibility.
I'm assuming BOM and the Asia mission ones can be subbed out for one of the aircraft that don't have crew rests to free a couple of 772s if need be? Or are the non crew rest 772s the domestically configured cattle trucks?
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6869 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8887 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5): A 777-300ER would be too large a plane to send on that run if they plan to start with a 787-8.
No doubt but JL's 773ER's have about the same number of seats as their 772ER's due to the low density configuration of their 773ER's. So what's worse, send a 773ER and sell a bunch of low "introductory" fares just to break even until the 788 is available, or pospone the service and have to rebook or reimburse everyone who has already booked, plus penalties? Don't forget that for the first year JL is getting significant incentives from Massport so the break even point for the route is less than "normal". If capacity is too great there's also the option of operating the route only 5x weekly instead of the planned increase to daily.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8746 times:
If JAL amends their plan for this route, about how much advance notice do you all think they are obligated to give...a month?
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8725 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 9): If JAL amends their plan for this route, about how much advance notice do you all think they are obligated to give...a month?
They aren't obligated to give any advance notice at all.
As long as they pay the due compensation, they can cancel 5 minutes before scheduled start if they want to.
That would be terrible PR and they would never do that, but it's an option...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8720 times:
Aside from not knowing a 787 from a bottle of milk, Boston Mayor Menino would likely shriek with howls of protest (along the lines of, "How DARE JAL do this to ME!").
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7342 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8584 times:
JAL would probably launch the route with a 77W and then rotate in whatever 777 is available until the 787 can operate the flight. JAL has been waiting to fly to Boston since 1992.
airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8274 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 11): Aside from not knowing a 787 from a bottle of milk, Boston Mayor Menino would likely shriek with howls of protest (along the lines of, "How DARE JAL do this to ME!").
He'd say that alright, but you'd never really fully understand what came out of Mayor Mumbles mouth!
ordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 581 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8043 times:
I would probably agree, most will not know the difference between the 787 and 772, as an armchair CEO i would go that route.
JHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7279 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 4): Well, the selfish side of me wouldn't mind seeing a delay of a few days because I'm scheduled to be at a big Defense/Security trade show in Baltimore from the 22nd through the week!
I've never met the great spotting community at Logan, but I would certainly love to be there for the first JAL 787 if it happens a week or so later than scheduled! Great bunch of people who crank out fabulous photos and astounding videos.
I agree those photos from Boston are some of the best ones on the site IMO. With the flights to Boston so cheap from Baltimore hopefully i can take a day off work to go see her first arrival!
Spunker From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 34 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7218 times:
Still hoping for the 787 on 4/22 but who know's what will transpire. Everyone come up and see us there are a multitude of places to spot around Logan. Here's our group http://www.meetup.com/BostonAirlinerSpotters/
gene
crAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 572 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7143 times:
Given ATI with AA, can AA fly the route with a 767 or 772 until JAL's 787s arrive?
crAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 572 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6501 times:
Don't know for sure.
ORD-DEL will be ending so that's two and the first 77Ws will be flying DFW-GRU so there's another one and eventually two more 772s that will become available. However, not sure if they will be needed to replace outgoing 767s on some routes, or if those aircraft have already been allocated to other routes, or if AA has plans to start refurbs on it's 772s once the 77Ws start arriving.
Maybe someone else has more details on aircraft utilization with the schedule changes and declined leases.
I'm thinking the most likely outcome will be JAL postponing the start of the flight.
Many carriers have that many, and often far more, seats on much smaller aircraft. For example, KLM's A332s haved 243 seats and their new A333s have 292.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26685 posts, RR: 83 Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5207 times:
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5140 times:
Quoting Spunker (Reply 16): Still hoping for the 787 on 4/22 but who know's what will transpire. Everyone come up and see us there are a multitude of places to spot around Logan. Here's our group http://www.meetup.com/BostonAirliner...ters/
Best people I've never met.
I want to spend a day with these people as they shot videos and photos around Logan. The stuff they come up with is awesome. Their YouTube channels are brilliant...well-shot, accompanied by music...the whole nine yards. I'm going to make a vow to myself to meet up with them this spring.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4984 times:
Quoting KFlyer (Reply 23): The funniest thing would be if a 77E is subbed, and when a newspaper publishes a photo of it calling it a 787.
Well, if a 777 comes in initially followed by the 787, it'll give the fire crews two opportunities to spray water & have fun...once for the debut of JAL in Boston and the second one for the debut of the 787.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4792 times:
Very pleased to hear that JAL will open up San Diego-Narita with the 787 as well.
I'm pleased because the 787 was conceived as a plane that would open up 'long-and-thin' routes that other (bigger) aircraft wouldn't be able to serve profitably. Now, JAL has announced plans to open up Boston and San Diego with the 787. Al Nippon did so when they announced San Jose, CA.
The hope is that our own flag carriers open up 'long-and-thin' routes with the 787 as well. The fear is that they will assign it to existing trunk routes (e.g. JFK, ORD, et al) rather than use it for new markets that really could use the service if only for a plane such as the 787.
Speaking as a New Englander, I hope Boston-South America routes are seen as 787-worthy. There is next to nothing going from/to Boston from anywhere in South America right now. We automatically think 'east-west' when conjuring up 787 routes, but north-south routes are goldmines, too!
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4756 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 25): Speaking as a New Englander, I hope Boston-South America routes are seen as 787-worthy. There is next to nothing going from/to Boston from anywhere in South America right now. We automatically think 'east-west' when conjuring up 787 routes, but north-south routes are goldmines, too!
JL used to do fifth-freedom flights from Brazil to JFK and LAX. I asked in the thread if that was possible for the BOS flights and was told that while the market is there, the yields are awful and the fares would have to go up quite a bit.
I found Massport's presentation that had a slide detailing the largest markets without service. Some of these might work with the 787:
MAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4882 times:
Does anyone know how bookings are looking on NRT-BOS?
I don't think filling a plane from BOS to South America would be tough at all, especially to Brazil. But the profitability would be another thing. A lot of VFR traffic.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 28, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4860 times:
That link would have been a terrific one to look at, but it's a dead-end.
But you look at some of the Boston-area communities...Framingham, for example...you could fill a Boston-Brazil 787 every day of the week, if someone had the sense to do so. I cannot speak to how profitable such a route would be, but wasn't the 787 designed to bring the break-even point down a whole bunch?
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6869 posts, RR: 7 Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4772 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 26): JL used to do fifth-freedom flights from Brazil to JFK and LAX. I asked in the thread if that was possible for the BOS flights and was told that while the market is there, the yields are awful and the fares would have to go up quite a bit.
It will never happen because of the need to clear customs and immigration for connecting passengers at BOS.
I think there's demand and money to be made in BOS-GRU, but without unrestricted access to GRU it will never happen. The problem is not so much demand. It's the fact that US carriers are only allowed so many frequencies into GRU and it's better to maximize those frequencies with bigger planes from their hubs. Maybe LATAM will start such a route.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4749 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 28): That link would have been a terrific one to look at, but it's a dead-end.
Was it a bum link? It's a powerpoint. Check your computer settings to see if it's blocking it from opening, it should open, it might take a while.
Quoting airbazar (Reply 29): It will never happen because of the need to clear customs and immigration for connecting passengers at BOS.
I think there's demand and money to be made in BOS-GRU, but without unrestricted access to GRU it will never happen. The problem is not so much demand. It's the fact that US carriers are only allowed so many frequencies into GRU and it's better to maximize those frequencies with bigger planes from their hubs. Maybe LATAM will start such a route.
Not to mention, as I've thought about it longer, the need for an extra 787. There's no way a plane can do NRT-BOS-GRU-BOS-NRT in one day.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4547 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 30): Was it a bum link? It's a powerpoint. Check your computer settings to see if it's blocking it from opening, it should open, it might take a while.
Yes, you are right. It is a PPT doc that I was able to download but my 2011 version of Powerpoint won't open it. I will keep trying. I have a MacBook Pro with the application Keynote on it; sometimes that will do the trick.
aklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 682 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4471 times:
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 11):
Aside from not knowing a 787 from a bottle of milk, Boston Mayor Menino would likely shriek with howls of protest (along the lines of, "How DARE JAL do this to ME!").
787 is much faster. The typical bottle of milk won't go bad until several days after it is manufactured.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
I'm trying to figure out whether or not the announcement of SAN and HEL (being discussed on a separate thread) gives us any insight as to the arrival and deployment of the first Dreamliners by JL? I can't really imagine that JL would continue announcing additional routes with the a/c if they don't have a pretty good handle on the first routes' expected starts.
Of course there has been no inaugural date suggested yet for SAN or HEL (other than "FY2012".) For that matter, there hasn't even been a formal announcement of either route by the airline or by either city yet.
Needless to say, I'm trying to be as positive as I can about all these JL expansion plans with the Dreamliner (one route in particular ) but this seems encouraging to me that things will go as hoped and planned.
MAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3963 times:
Looks like Massport is going to make connecting via Logan easier. They have now have plans for a post security connector from Terminal E over to Terminal C. This should work nicely for the JL/B6 tie up.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3772 times:
Quoting MAV88 (Reply 35): Looks like Massport is going to make connecting via Logan easier. They have now have plans for a post security connector from Terminal E over to Terminal C. This should work nicely for the JL/B6 tie up.
Not to mention transfering B6's own international flights to its domestic ones. There already is a hallway from what was Terminal D to Terminal E, so I imagine that it would be part of this connector, and then I assume that they will connect that with the rest of Terminal C.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6869 posts, RR: 7 Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 23 hours ago) and read 3278 times:
Quoting MAV88 (Reply 35): Looks like Massport is going to make connecting via Logan easier. They have now have plans for a post security connector from Terminal E over to Terminal C. This should work nicely for the JL/B6 tie up.
Is there a link with this news or project details? This would be awesome. Keep in mind that B6 and LH also have a code share agreement.
airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 3055 times:
Quoting airbazar (Reply 37): Is there a link with this news or project details? This would be awesome. Keep in mind that B6 and LH also have a code share agreement.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 2997 times:
Quoting airbazar (Reply 37): Is there a link with this news or project details? This would be awesome. Keep in mind that B6 and LH also have a code share agreement.
It's only a one-way deal. LH puts its code on B6 flights from BOS and JFK.
chrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 40, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 2807 times:
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 39): But hopefully the 787 flights start on time.
It will be quite the day when that first JAL 787 touches down at Logan. I the first revenue flight NRT-BOS or BOS-NRT? I would imagine NRT-BOS since it doesn't make much sense to ferry the plane here empty.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 4 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 13): Quoting chrisnh (Reply 11):
Aside from not knowing a 787 from a bottle of milk, Boston Mayor Menino would likely shriek with howls of protest (along the lines of, "How DARE JAL do this to ME!").
He'd say that alright, but you'd never really fully understand what came out of Mayor Mumbles mouth!
Fortunately Mayor Mumbles has nothing to do or say about BOS. Logan International Airport (BOS) is owned by MASSPORT, a state agency.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 4 hours ago) and read 2128 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 44): Fortunately Mayor Mumbles has nothing to do or say about BOS. Logan International Airport (BOS) is owned by MASSPORT, a state agency.
Well, sharp observers will recall how 'Loud' Mumbles got several years ago when Hainan Airways was 'considering' Boston as a destination. The Honorable declared it as a done deal.
MAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 1971 times:
Quoting airbazar (Reply 37): Quoting MAV88 (Reply 35):
Looks like Massport is going to make connecting via Logan easier. They have now have plans for a post security connector from Terminal E over to Terminal C. This should work nicely for the JL/B6 tie up.
Is there a link with this news or project details? This would be awesome. Keep in mind that B6 and LH also have a code share agreement.
that makes it sound like the C-E connection would only be to gates that WN is using - are those then connected airside to the rest of E? I never explored back there.
BOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1809 times:
Quoting tharanga (Reply 47): won't those pax get dumped outside the secure area after they clear customs, though? an airside connection wouldn't help them.
Hmm. Good point. I wonder if that will be changing soon. It would be great if it was. At least it works when going the other way.
airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1803 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 44): Fortunately Mayor Mumbles has nothing to do or say about BOS. Logan International Airport (BOS) is owned by MASSPORT, a state agency.
Doesn't matter really...he's the first one to welcome you to Logan when you walk through the Terminal C walkway to/from the parking garage Via recorded message, of course
Quoting jcarv (Reply 42): Yes it is confirmed. Arriving March 4th for event and leaving March 5.
Any idea when they might be arriving give or take? Flying out to FLL that day...might try to get their early to check it out
jcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 288 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1769 times:
bomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1669 times:
Quoting tharanga (Reply 47): won't those pax get dumped outside the secure area after they clear customs, though? an airside connection wouldn't help them.
Wouldn't this save you from transferring terminals via walking or bus? You could just check back in through security at E and then walk to C all inside security. No being a pedestrian, no waiting for a bus.
AA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1502 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 34): Of course there has been no inaugural date suggested yet for SAN or HEL (other than "FY2012".) For that matter, there hasn't even been a formal announcement of either route by the airline or by either city yet.
Hey SANFan, you might want to take a look at http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201202/002028.html. The dates are still vague-ish, but JAL says that NRT-SAN-NRT will start from December 2012, and NRT-HEL-NRT will start from March 2013.
SAN flights will be 4x weekly until February 2013, then they become daily. HEL flights will be 4x weekly until sometime during the first half of FY13, then they will become daily as well.
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) but this seems encouraging to me that things will go as hoped and planned.
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