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NO More MIA-SEA N/S  
User currently offlineGEN2STEW From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 99 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7348 times:

With the recent press release from AS that it will drop MIA and move up to FLL, what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean? And no TRI-RAIL to MIA is not an option.


I don't know why blessings wear disguises. If I were a blessing, I'd run around nude!
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7275 times:

Does AA really not fly SEA-MIA?!

User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7276 times:

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

It will largely be the same as it exists now - most passengers will have to connect through IAH, ATL, DFW, or JFK. If a destination is only offered through MIA, then pax will either have to overnight or double-connect through another hub.

It's not easy getting to the Caribbean/South America from SEA, and this makes it a bit harder, but in general there are still enough options for the market. AA just misses out on the traffic.


User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7072 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 2):
Does AA really not fly SEA-MIA?!

No, they dropped it in late 2001. It was a change of equipment continuation of the NRT-SEA flight, which was discontinued at the same time. AS picked up the route several years later. Rumor is AA may start it back up now, but only a rumor for now.

Like I said, there's another large thread on this.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6792 times:

Quoting rwsea (Reply 3):
It will largely be the same as it exists now - most passengers will have to connect through IAH, ATL, DFW, or JFK. If a destination is only offered through MIA, then pax will either have to overnight or double-connect through another hub.

It's not easy getting to the Caribbean/South America from SEA, and this makes it a bit harder, but in general there are still enough options for the market. AA just misses out on the traffic.

Maybe it is time for AM to give SEA-MEX another stab? MEX is a good connecting point for U.S. West Coast - South America traffic.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6715 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 5):
Maybe it is time for AM to give SEA-MEX another stab?

I like the idea of AS giving it a stab instead. I think that would work better, along with AS starting SJC-MEX.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6633 times:

AA requires a connection. SEA-DFW-MIA or SEA-ORD-MIA to get to their South America network. This gives UA and DL an advantage since both offer plenty of nonstop options to ATL and IAH respectively for connections.

The AS nonstop SEA-MIA was never very useful for connections. A red eye had limited flights it connected to since most of AA's departures from MIA are in the evening, so it was easier to go SEA-DFW-MIA then SEA-MIA and have a 10 hour layover. The morning MIA-SEA also left before connections for all but the flights from deep South America with early arrivals.

AA has really shrunk to SEA. They are down to about a dozen daily flights. A nonstop SEA-MIA would be great if it had a morning SEA-MIA departure. AA has just decided that it isn't a big enough market to get nonstop service, so for people looking to avoid connections, they go to DL and UA. It's AA's loss. MIA-SEA was AS's second longest route after ORD-ANC.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

I think COPA should start PTY-SEA. PTY is the perfect connecting point from Seattle to South America, it's shorter than connecting through MIA:


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1404 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6559 times:

This was also discussed in www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/ge...ead.main/5380203/?threadid=5380203 .

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly. Took only about 5 months for it to pick up MIAPHX after US left the market.


a.
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6383 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly.

Will that connect with the forthcoming JL/AA SEA-NRT flight?  


User currently offlinejpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think COPA should start PTY-SEA. PTY is the perfect connecting point from Seattle to South America, it's shorter than connecting through MIA:

I'm not sure that SEA-PTY is even possible for CM. Their longest flight currently is PTY-MVD, at 3385m according to Great Circle Mapper. From what I've read here on Airliners.net that distance is very close to the maximum, so since PTY-SEA at 3643m, is more than 250m longer it might not be doable, especially NW bound into SEA.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6345 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6271 times:

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):

With the recent press release from AS that it will drop MIA and move up to FLL, what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

Well UA at IAH can pretty much get you to the most popular place with some easter caribbean stuff.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think COPA should start PTY-SEA

Now that is a downright LOOOOOONG route on a 73G



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
With the recent press release from AS that it will drop MIA and move up to FLL, what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

Good question. AS could code share with AA through DFW to some South American and a few Caribbean destinations. However, it's interesting that AS and AA don't code share on each others flights to DFW, as they do to ORD (and AS and DL do to MSP and ATL). Supposedly, AA was mad when AS started DFW but I would have thought they'd work it out by now. I've done AA connections at DFW in which I would have preferred AS metal on SEA-DFW but no can do.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
AA requires a connection. SEA-DFW-MIA or SEA-ORD-MIA to get to their South America network. This gives UA and DL an advantage since both offer plenty of nonstop options to ATL and IAH respectively for connections.

The AS nonstop SEA-MIA was never very useful for connections. A red eye had limited flights it connected to since most of AA's departures from MIA are in the evening, so it was easier to go SEA-DFW-MIA then SEA-MIA and have a 10 hour layover. The morning MIA-SEA also left before connections for all but the flights from deep South America with early arrivals

I agree with this 100%, The MIA-SEA-MIA flights have in the past, been timed more for connections in SEA than in MIA. AA has lost interest in the Pacific Northwest, they only supply the two largest population centers with meager amounts of service, AA can't expect much from this area, if they don't provide the flights. Both EUG & BOI were rather short lived experiments by AA.

Loyal AS flyers up here, and there are a lot of them, will fly DL to get their points where ever AS can't take them, yet. I would be very surprised if MIA-SEA-MIA is brought back by AA, I do agree if the route was ever resurrected, it would have to be re-timed to match up with AA's largest bank of South America flights in MIA, rather than a single connection from a JL flight connecting over SEA. There are plenty of other cities one could connect easily to get to MIA from NRT using the JL/AA JV. LAX, SFO, ORD come to mind.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I would be very surprised if MIA-SEA-MIA is brought back by AA, I do agree if the route was ever resurrected, it would have to be re-timed to match up with AA's largest bank of South America flights in MIA, r

It's coming back, and the schedule will almost certainly mirror AA's MIAPHX schedule. The only question about its return is whether AA will wait for winter, or squeeze it into the June 14th major schedule change that should be public in 3-4 weeks.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly.

Will that connect with the forthcoming JL/AA SEA-NRT flight?  


JL/AA's next ATI route is probably going to be MIANRT, so no need even if AA/JL decides to enter the NRTSEA market (which I believe it will).

[Edited 2012-02-09 13:59:34]


a.
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
JL/AA's next ATI route is probably going to be MIANRT

Is there really a market for MIA-NRT non-stop? I was hoping AA would be the entrant in SJC-NRT again so that flight could earn AS miles.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
JL/AA's next ATI route is probably going to be MIANRT

Is there really a market for MIA-NRT non-stop? I was hoping AA would be the entrant in SJC-NRT again so that flight could earn AS miles.

Yes, there is absolutely a market. Florida-Japan is around 165 PDEW.



a.
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3993 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6134 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly.

That would probably be 5x weekly, or 1x daily at the most. What aircraft would it be? A 757 or a 738?

The profitability of the MIA-SEA flight in both directions doesn't just depend on the connections in MIA to flights going to South America. On the other side, it depends also on the connections in SEA to Alaska (Anchorage, Juneau,... or wherever AS flies in the Northwest) which depends whether AA keeps code sharing with AS or not. If AA and AS stop code sharing then the load factors will be low.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I agree with this 100%, The MIA-SEA-MIA flights have in the past, been timed more for connections in SEA than in MIA.

I agree that a red eye flight eastbound wouldn't work well for connections in MIA, but a day flight leaving SEA at 12N arriving MIA at 8P or so would work better for evening connections to South America. Likewise a westbound flight leaving MIA at 8A arriving SEA at 11A could work for connections to Alaska or wherever AS flies, and it would work out also for passengers arriving in MIA from South America very early in the morning.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
If AA and AS stop code sharing then the load factors will be low.

AA and AS aren't going to stop code sharing. AA is AS' single largest codeshare partner and they continue to strengthen their FF relationship, most recently with reciprocal elite benefits.

MIASEA will get high load factors regardless. It's extremely easy to fill the plane - AS averaged over 95%, yet AA, not AS, carries the most O&D between the two cities.



a.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6107 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think COPA should start PTY-SEA. PTY is the perfect connecting point from Seattle to South America, it's shorter than connecting through MIA:

I can't imagine that being possible on their 737s. SEA-PTY is longer than JFK-LHR and would be 300 miles longer than the longest 737 route. SEA-MIA is a thousand miles shorter and still on the edge of the 738s range.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6098 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
but a day flight leaving SEA at 12N arriving MIA at 8P or so would work better for evening connections to South America. Likewise a westbound flight leaving MIA at 8A arriving SEA at 11A

That was almost exactly the timing of the old AA flights 25/26 SEA-MIA.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 20):
I can't imagine that being possible on their 737s. SEA-PTY is longer than JFK-LHR and would be 300 miles longer than the longest 737 route.

I would think, unless Copa could get another type of aircraft,like a used 757,and why would they do that, CM would need to make some enroute stop, I'd presume Mexico somewhere not too far off the direct route, all this provided they could get 5th freedom rights. I doubt CM would take on either venture, they have other fish to fry.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently onlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):

Yes, there is absolutely a market. Florida-Japan is around 165 PDEW.

Here we go again... The question was asked of MIA-NRT, not Florida-Japan, that's like asking if there's a market for SMF-FUK service and saying, "Yes, there's definitely a market between California and Japan. In fact, MIA-NRT is such a large market that no carrier has ever flown it, or even attempted to, in spite of the fact that there have been aircraft with the capability to do so for decades...  

Jeremy


User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 23):
Yes, there is absolutely a market. Florida-Japan is around 165 PDEW.

Here we go again... The question was asked of MIA-NRT, not Florida-Japan, that's like asking if there's a market for SMF-FUK service and saying, "Yes, there's definitely a market between California and Japan.

And is even that 165 passengers on a 777-300ER going to be profitable for such a long haul? Can the -200 do it? Maybe some of the 165 have their FF miles on DL and would rather do MIA-ATL-NRT.

There's a market for almost everything, especially SMF-FUK, but is the market big enough to be a profitable flight.


25 Roseflyer : Connections to Alaska mean some, but I don't think anywhere near as much as those from MIA. If going to Alaska, you are almost destined to connect vi
26 wedgetail737 : CM could make SEA and extension of their PTY-MEX service using a -700 or -800. Not that it's all that likely.
27 mah4546 : Absolutely. Florida-Japan is 165 PDEW. You have to look at the entire state in this instance because so much of the traffic is leisure and much goes
28 laca773 : I appreciate your enthusiasm for AA. Things are different when a company is in BK, especially when they need to reduce their costs. If AA were to bri
29 TLHFLA : If AA brings back MIA-SEA, I am thiking it will be either a 738 or 757 flight. It was a 763 when they previously flew the route.
30 RWA380 : Yeah, they could, but what advantage would it give Copa to have a ten hour plus flight with enroute stop, probaly in the middle of the night, just to
31 mah4546 : It's not a seasonal demand route. That makes no sense. It also doesn't need to wait for an A319, when AA's 757 is the perfect size aircraft for the m
32 ASFlyer : Even with Alaska's much lower cost's they have struggled with MIA - despite high load factors. Evidenced by the red-eye flights and the imminent move
33 BobLoblaw : Given VX. WN and B6, I would think SEAMIA would have slightly better yields than FLL....
34 RWA380 : VX, WN and B6 don't pose much threat to AS on the FLL route, AS flights are filled with loyal AS fliers from Alaska and the Pacific Northwest, it wou
35 BobLoblaw : [ Wont AS match WN and VX fares from SEA to FLL? I dont think they will lose pax by moving to FLL from MIA, but their fare mix might be worse.
36 wedgetail737 : I tend to agree. If AM couldn't make it work with their 73G's on the SEA-MEX route with connections to Latin America, I don't think anyone can. Perso
37 RWA380 : I had forgot about AM's SEA service, it seems you've proven both our point very well. Funny that MX's SEA-PVR-MEX & SEA-MZT-MEX 72S services last
38 SHUPirate1 : Yet. It will as soon as Miami Central Station opens in mid-2013. So would MIA-NRT not be a better route for Delta to start, if they were able to pick
39 SurfandSnow : I assume you mean the AA codeshare pax, as it should be noted that DL also codeshares with the SEA-MIA flight. Such pax will: 1) Accept the change in
40 GEN2STEW : I still think it'll be a MAJOR SCHLEP. Ex. After a night-coach cross counry flight the PAX will: claim bags, wait for the cramped rickedy shuttle to
41 SHUPirate1 : That's what I get for taking the comment out of context in thought as well as in text. Yes, for people transiting from the AS flight at FLL to an AA
42 MAV88 : I would like to think that the South Florida region, MIA, FLL and PBI, could easily support year round, multiple daily flights to SEA. Say 3 daily in
43 HiFlyerAS : You're taking me back, RWA! I forgot about MX flying those routes! I remember that MX 727...it was all coach and I was on a flight SEA-PVR back in th
44 ckfred : AS used to have SEA-MIA earlier in the day. This was back in 2003, but I was flying SEA-ORD on AA, with a 10:30am departure. The flight was horribly o
45 Post contains images RWA380 : I never flew MX, and didn't know it was all Y, yuck! AS did chase them off though, heck AS just had a better product, and a large customer base in SE
46 Post contains images BoeingGuy : Yes, that has been well discussed here already. AA 25/26 were through routed MIA-SEA-NRT always with an equipment change at SEA. It was either a 767-
47 Post contains images commavia : It was a 767-200 in Fall 1999, at least!
48 boslax : a few thoughts and questions, I would have thought otherwise, but 70% of the MIA-SEA O&D market, originates in MIA. Advantage AA if they choose to
49 TOMMY767 : I could definitely see it as a 738 in the future on AA. AA serves most of their western stations from MIA: LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, PHX, DEN.. Gee, wonder
50 OB1504 : While I try to promote public transportation at every opportunity, you're right that the current Tri-Rail shuttle bus to/from FLL leaves a lot to be
51 MAV88 : Is the MIA/FLL-LAX market big enough? You already have AA, DL, VX, NK and B6. I am going to guess AA must carry a good number of connections given th
52 laca773 : I hope you're joking...? MX had some of the best service in coach. Their catering for many years had wine glasses, china and linen napkins on the tra
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