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NK Adds More To DFW!  
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Spirit announces they will add DFW-TPA and DFW-TLC, Spirit's first international route out of DFW.

Source: DFW Airport @dfwairport

. @spiritairlines just announced they will begin service from #DFW to Tampa beginning May 4, 2012.

DFW Airport @dfwairport

Spirit launching new service to Toluca, Mexico this year

http://marketing.spirit.com/traveldeals/air.php?s=847&mw=1

Spirit at DFW is expanding!

Alex


Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

It seems Spirit is doing much better in their second attempt at DFW, of course, with American so deeply wounded and unable to defend their turf as they had in the past (FLL flights for example), this is not surprising. Good news for DFW residents.

User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6746 times:

I would imagine Spirit is using Terminal-E correct? If so, how will they handle the Mexico flight? Will they arrive at Terminal D and then have the plane towed over to terminal E?


Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

Yup Spirit just filed with the DOT.

They propose initially one daily service utilizing mix of 145-seat A319 and 178-seat A320 aircraft per below schedule effective May 2012.

NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

Spirit also they forecast to increase service at later stage dependent on demand.

OST-2012-0021



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5831 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6619 times:

Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

Or leave at THREE??

I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.


User currently offlineblink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

Or leave at THREE??

I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.

They could tack on an "underground passage fee" and a "Terminal D Spirit Customs Fee." Nonetheless, competition is always a good thing, even if its at two or three in the morning. Yawn.



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6490 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

I would not worry much about it - its Latin America and middle of the night flights are quite common.

Come to LAX and you'll see folks like Volaris, TACA, etc coming and going at all wee hours.

Ultimately this flight is clever utilization flying with a plane parked at DFW already. Also the $9 fares certainly wont hurt to drive demand.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6364 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

this reminds me of the FLL to Barranquilla schedule. Why 0230, what an awful time.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 1):
It seems Spirit is doing much better in their second attempt at DFW, of course, with American so deeply wounded and unable to defend their turf as they had in the past (FLL flights for example), this is not surprising. Good news for DFW residents.

Gotta hand it to NK, they have some smart people working for them. The industry landscape has completely changed from when they first started DFW a few years back; in the sense that NK was not yet a fully ULCC at the time, but purely an 'LCC' with lots of gray areas in terms of what their value proposition was. AA was still largely a full-service carrier without having the ancillary practices in place (i.e. charging for checked bags) and this was pre-industry mega consolidation.

Now that NK has defined its 'niche' and the general public perception of so-called legacy carriers such as AA have blurred a bit more, it gives NK a better idea on which segments to go after, and there certainly is a market for them at DFW capable of giving them the business they need to succeed.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
They propose initially one daily service utilizing mix of 145-seat A319 and 178-seat A320 aircraft per below schedule effective May 2012.

NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

Spirit also they forecast to increase service at later stage dependent on demand

Yup, pretty horrendous timings, but fairly minimal risk given the available aircraft on the ground. Also, definitely a subtly bold move/hint towards AA indicating that not just their domestic flights from DFW are subject to attack. The Latin American ops at DFW are a goldmine, especially the RJ flights to the secondary markets in Mexico...very interesting times ahead.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.

Isn't there still plenty of space to go around in E?



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6249 times:

Out of curiosity does anyone know if NK now self handles at DFW, or if they still use 3rd party vendors?


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineblink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

Bizarrely enough, this would be a great feeder into AA's morning DFW departures wave.



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6189 times:
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What is the schedule and frequency for TPA?


avi8
User currently offlineBobLoblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 1):
It seems Spirit is doing much better in their second attempt at DFW, of course, with American so deeply wounded and unable to defend their turf as they had in the past

What makes you think AA is deeply wounded and unable to defend its turf??? This is such a myth. AA hasnt lost corporate traffic at DFW and AA's costs will be coming down soon. NK is serving niche markets from DFW and has started a whole bunch of new markets outside their traditional strength which is FLL, Carribbean and Latin America. We dont even know yet if their new flying is profitable.

It is a myth that airlines when they file for chpt 9 are at some type of competitive disadvantage.
Let me ask you. How well did FL make out in ATL when DL was in bankruptcy? Also how much revenue did AA pick up from UA in ORD and on the transcons when UA was in bankruptcy??? I am betting slim to none.

In fact DL's emergence from bankruptcy with leaner costs is the MAIN reason why FL jumped when WN offered to buy them at a 60% premium. FL has slowly seen their ATL position weaken with a stronger post BK Delta.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 8):
Isn't there still plenty of space to go around in E?

Probably, but it would be SO COOL to see that satellite in use again!!



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11642 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6090 times:

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 12):
What makes you think AA is deeply wounded and unable to defend its turf??? This is such a myth.

  

AA may have a cost and revenue challenge in a lot of places, but generally, DFW ain't one of them. I suspect Spirit will have about as much impact on AA's hub at DFW as they have had on AA's hub at Miami - which is to say, basically none. They cater to two completely and totally different market segments. Spirit is most likely not stealing all that many people from DFW - they are stimulating the ultra-elastic, ultra-price-sensitive, very bottom of the market - in many cases, people who are not switching from AA, but switching from not flying at all. What traffic Spirit does pick up from AA is likely to be traffic AA is happy to see go as it reduces capacity and reduces its exposure to catering to this much more fare-conscious traveler set.

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 12):
In fact DL's emergence from bankruptcy with leaner costs is the MAIN reason why FL jumped when WN offered to buy them at a 60% premium. FL has slowly seen their ATL position weaken with a stronger post BK Delta.

  

I think the example of Delta in Atlanta is quite instructive. Post-bankruptcy, and with the right costs, Delta was able to dramatically change the competitive dynamics in the Atlanta market and handily dominate AirTran in virtually every market where they competed - not only capturing substantially more market share, but also at generally substantially higher fares.


User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5990 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 2):
I would imagine Spirit is using Terminal-E correct? If so, how will they handle the Mexico flight? Will they arrive at Terminal D and then have the plane towed over to terminal E?

Frontier did this a few year back for their shortlived DFW-Mazatlan flight. Arrive at D, dump off the pax, and tow over to E. NK is using E.

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 12):
What makes you think AA is deeply wounded and unable to defend its turf??? This is such a myth.

When NK started FLL a few years ago, AA matched or cut the fares to FLL on all their flights, as well as MIA flights too IIRC, until such time that NK, which started at 1x daily, simply couldn't compete against AA which was meeting or beating the price on multiple flights at various times. AA did the same thing to Air Tran around the same time with AirTran's LAX flights. AA met or beat the price on ALL flights to every port in the L.A. area, until AirTran dropped the route.

Doubtless AA took a loss for a time on these routes, but once NK or AirTran were seen off, AA raised the fares again. Good strategy by them of course.

Now, in bankruptcy, I haven't heard (and maybe they indeed have) of AA matching or beating the fares for NK or even Virgin America. In the past they would have fought a good fare war, now, I don't see that happening. These others folks are nipping in while AA is down and gaining a foothold that they were unable to do in the past.

As IrishAyes pointed out above, perhaps a lot of that is based on changing business models, but I still am of the opinion that AA, in their current state, down, maybe not out, but certainly down, can't as easily fend of these other carriers as they did in the past.

Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that even with all of this, AA/MQ still make up about 84% of DFW traffic. But it is nice to see some new entrants to the DFW market.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Seems to me (as was pointed out in earlier posts about DL's BK), that BK is actually GOOD for AA's competitive position, and in no way would hinder their determination or ability to defend their home turf.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

The loaded Tampa schedule is:

NK812 DFW-TPA 1600-1930
NK813 TPA-DFW 2020-2215



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
OST-2012-0021

I'm having a hard time finding the link, can you help? Thanks

Never mind, found it!
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0021-0001

[Edited 2012-02-09 17:33:36]

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5814 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

Or leave at THREE??

Yes, let me join you in losing my lunch at that hideous schedule.


User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5612 times:
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Hate to break it to those in the Spirit HQ's but these schedules are a bit lame. Horrible actually, and many of their schedules are in fact, terrible. Buut... they're making money out of it, so by all means, keep it up!


avi8
User currently offlineBobLoblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5476 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
AA may have a cost and revenue challenge in a lot of places, but generally, DFW ain't one of them.

What people need to remember is BK isnt the problem. BK is SOLVING the problem. The problem was AA pre bankruptcy. That was the time to take on AA. The entire reason DL wants to buy AA is because Delta is THREATENED by a post BK AMR with lower costs just as DL's will be going up.


It is like Peter Schiff says about recessions. The problems isnt the recession, the recession is the cure. The problem was the reckless economic boom. The recession is correcting the inefficiencies of the boom. Same goes with BK.


User currently offlineBobLoblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
NK812 DFW-TPA 1600-1930
NK813 TPA-DFW 2020-2215

50 minute turn on a 178 seat A320 with a 1600 departure from DFW with afternoon spring and summer t-storms......I just hope that pax planning to arrive back in DFW at 2215 arent planning to go into work the next morning. I bet the A+15 on the return will be in the 10-20% range.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 15):
Now, in bankruptcy, I haven't heard (and maybe they indeed have) of AA matching or beating the fares for NK or even Virgin America. In the past they would have fought a good fare war, now, I don't see that happening. These others folks are nipping in while AA is down and gaining a foothold that they were unable to do in the past.

As IrishAyes pointed out above, perhaps a lot of that is based on changing business models, but I still am of the opinion that AA, in their current state, down, maybe not out, but certainly down, can't as easily fend of these other carriers as they did in the past.

Thanks for the shout out. I am enjoying this discussion, lots of very good points raised by the People here, and I think many of them individually have a certain degree of validity to them.

For starters, I also don't truly believe AA is in a debilitated position at DFW, and I am sure they have retained their highly-valued corporate following in spite of their restructuring efforts. With regards to new carriers setting up shop at DFW, I'd simply just argue that AA has become a lot less "bullish" about defending their turf against them, and for several reasons.

One, being that NK is, as Commavia pointed out, going after the bottom barrel traffic at DFW, representing a segment that would either fly NK vs. not fly at all.

Two, AA has bigger fish to fry at this point. The fact is they are indeed in a weaker position than they were in when FL was expanding at DFW, or NK originally commenced their 1x daily DFWFLL flight. Their focus needs to be on proving to unsecured creditors that they have a viable plan to remain a standalone carrier once they emerge from under Ch. 11 protection.

My one area of questioning revolves around how AA perceives the likes of VX as a threat.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Out of curiosity does anyone know if NK now self handles at DFW, or if they still use 3rd party vendors?

I believe their customer service agents are vendors, so it would stand to reason that their ramp service is contracted out, too.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 20):
Hate to break it to those in the Spirit HQ's but these schedules are a bit lame. Horrible actually, and many of their schedules are in fact, terrible. Buut... they're making money out of it, so by all means, keep it up!

Then again, the argument can be made that if the flights are turning a profit, the schedules aren't bad.

[Edited 2012-02-09 23:12:30]

25 xaapb : Well... the schedules indeed are horrible but I'm assuming very cheap fares for the DFW-TLC-DFW. Probably this could be a very good "shopping flight".
26 TOMMY767 : Until they solve that problem, expect NK to pick on AA some more by invading the DFW turf! Anybody else think that NK would invade ORD some more? Why
27 ROSWELL41 : From what I've heard from talking to some NK customer services agents, they expect more expansion at ORD as well.
28 TWA1985 : That is what I am wondering. I have a feeling they will increase ORD service as well. Anyone know how they are doing in Chicago?
29 enilria : Ch11 does limit their ability to loss lead and retaliate crazily.
30 blueflyer : If there's an airline that Spirit might be stealing customers from, it's Southwest. There is a large catchment area West of DFW (Fort Worth and subur
31 rojo : AA did not react to NK's flights DFW-FLL. NK actually started with 2x daily, not 1x day as you mention. AA just ingnored NK as it did with the other
32 Santi319 : In the application to the D.O.T. It says "....between Dallas /Forth Worth, on one hand, and to Toluca/Mexico City, on the other hand, and beyond point
33 don0245 : Flew NK once, never again!
34 Post contains images AAIL86 : I don't think AA should be worried much, but if I were the station manager for Greyhound Dallas I'd be crapping my pants! Yes, good news, if they enj
35 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : What do you know, that happened to a coworker of mine too!
36 milemaster : I think 6-12 months from now we'll be seeing them removing flights at the same speed they are adding them today.
37 skyone : "Hideous"???, it is amazing, and considering I live 25 minutes away from TLC in Santa Fe Area of Mexico City, this will make for plenty of great Shop
38 FlyPNS1 : But that was true even before the bankruptcy. DL has always had the dominant marketshare and fare premium over FL.
39 n471wn : And there is a large catchment area East and North of Dallas that must drive near DAL to get to DFW----point being is that one airport is not more co
40 CIDFlyer : it will be interesting to see if NK takes over the spot of AirTran in adding some smaller/mid sized cities to connect to the larger cities at DFW and
41 BobLoblaw : I have always thought that the DFW area, given its population and income could support two hubbed carriers. AA has bene lucky for 5 years no one else
42 Mexicana757 : Spirit may expand some more but where are they going to get the gates to do it from?? T3 has no open gates only option they have is to go to T5. In t
43 Post contains images fxramper : Has anyone used NK? They charge for the air you breath. The service isn't great. I hope AA runs them out of DFW.
44 rojo : I totally agree with your post. Very few people think NK will become a powerful airline; the truth is they have been assaulting the turf of other air
45 Post contains links LOWS : Is that the small building on the SE Corner of the Ramp in this photo? http://goo.gl/BtTFj What is it like?
46 IrishAyes : ....but won't you have to pay more to bring your shopping back to Mexico by flying on NK? in the sense that, you may be spending more on transporting
47 Post contains images skyone : Only on the return flight On the way there, no bags, just my back pack with a big bag sqwissed inside. Then, on the way back, one bag downstairs. Yes
48 PI767 : Yes... that is the Terminal E Satellite building. However, I've never been inside of it to tell you what it is like.
49 AAtakeMeAway : Regarding the Terminal E Satellite, it's my understanding that it will soon be reopened at least temporarily for some E airlines to move in there whil
50 drerx7 : I've flown on DL L10s and 76s outta there...early 90s.
51 flyguy89 : We have watched them and they've virtually stagnated or retreated from most of their entrenched markets. FLL has seen practically zero growth and sch
52 Coronado990 : Yes. Tried them out on Monday on a SAN-LAS-OAK-LAS-SAN itinerary with an overnight in SF. I went to the airport about a month ago and they booked my
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